Marques Hagans to Penn State

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That's a big loss for the Hoos, isn't it?

It's a big loss for UVA, but also another great Virginia recruiter at Penn St which could hurt us.

Te to qb

Pry better be bringing the bags of cash to wherever mines is right now

Gobble Till You Wobble

Mines is a UVA grad...

We put the K in Kwality

I wouldn't jump to the UVA ship if I was Mines, just seems like it's taking on water and listing with Elliott already

Penn State committing even further to recruiting VA.

They have the money to bury us and never look back.

They're smart for moving now.

This is my school
This is home

I hate that I agree with everything you said. I'm so sick of them eating our lunch in recruiting 🤬

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

I mean, the biggest issue here is that its completely out of our control. The ACC doesn't pay us enough to remain competitive in recruiting in our own state. Penn State with Big Ten cashflows is an unbeatable entity on the recruiting trail within the commonwealth for any in-state school. It doesn't matter what we do and how good of a recruiter Pry is, money talks and we just don't have enough of it.

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This is home

I've reached the point where it's VT to the SEC or bust for me. If we can't make a move to that league in the near future to secure some semblance of relevancy for our football program in the new landscape, we are just going to fall into oblivion. There is no way we can remain competitive at this rate.

This. SEC or we're fucked.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

VT goes to the SEC and they finish last almost every year. Where is the fun in that?

We finished last in the ACC with a lot less money

UVA finished worse in my mind. We would have had more wins at the end of the year.

Except it wasn't really lack of money that got us there, unless you're making the argument that we would have let Fuente go a year or two earlier with more money. Or that we would have had more NIL money for better players, which wouldn't be the case because the money would go to the school, which does not make NIL deals.

And we would have had to have been in the SEC years ago to have made a difference. If Pry gets us to 10 wins in 24-25, what's the argument for money there? Also, SEC money can get us better coaches and facilities, but we still rely on other sources for NIL deals. If we lag in NIL funding, how will we really fare in the SEC? I'm trying to think of how being in the SEC might impact NIL money and it doesn't seem like it would, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I feel like moving to the SEC is an oversimplification of what will help us be better. If the ACC dissolves, I would prefer SEC over any other conference, but I feel like being mediocre in the SEC sounds better than being mediocre to good in the ACC, and I doubt that once we get there if we'll all be happy with that.

It's all TV money. SEC and Big Ten have it. ACC doesn't.

The ACC and Big 12 are paying out $32-36 million per school in a given year.

The SEC is paying out $55 million per school.

We're probably never catching up to Alabama or Georgia, regardless of what conference we're in. But an extra $20 million a year could get us in range with Tennessee or Florida.

Even if we can't increase our NIL funding in the SEC, I'll still take that extra $20 million a year in conference revenue.

And looking ahead, at least one estimate projects that the SEC will exceed $100M/team/year by the end of this decade, versus the ACC's projected $55M/team/year. And while that's just one analysis, there are others that draw similar conclusions.

It's not going to be possible to compete with a $50M/year revenue gap. Welcome to D1 (lower half).

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

Right now, we rely on donor money to help fund operations and capital projects. If we increase conference TV revenue to fund those things, then more of that donor money can go to NIL instead. At least that is my (somewhat uneducated) understanding.

And the alternative is to stay and be second tier in the ACC and unable to compete anymore? Look at Tennessee, they were in the bottom of the SEC a few years ago and with SEC cash, a good offensive system, and a good transfer QB just got to the Orange Bowl. We probably never win the natty, but I would rather have way more cash for the program, recruit better due to said cash and SEC advantage, have a meaningful game every week against SEC competition with that exposure, and maybe once in a blue moon get a big bowl bid or sniff a playoff bid once in a while. That sounds infinitely better than the current situation we find ourselves in now.

The fun will be in Athens, Baton Rouge, Oxford, Nashville, Tuscaloosa, Austin, Knoxville, etc. It'll be harder to get your Primanti Bros. or Dinosaur BBQ fix, but that's a tradeoff I'll gladly take.

Serious answer? Sure, we'd finish dead last right now. But with a $50M+ increase in annual conference rights revenue? Think back to the early 2000's... those Hokie teams would be competitive with almost every SEC team including TU and OU. (clearly, there's still a big gap from there to UGA/UA)

Even if our ceiling is no better than Beamer's best years, if we can get back to that level, we're a perennial top-half SEC team. I realize that's a big IF, and there's a lot more to it than just revenue, but as I said in another thread last year: money may not guarantee success, but more is always better.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

It'll be harder to get your Primanti Bros. or Dinosaur BBQ fix

I go up to Syracuse often for work - haven't gotten to Dinosaur BBQ but had a coworker that went there once. Said the local place closer to the facility we work was better. It's up the street in Liverpool and called Limp Lizard. It's definitely got a dive bar feel, but the food has been good every time I've gone.

I'll have the opportunity to go tailgate at away games at every SEC school over the next decade than the crap schools we currently play and still lose to.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

we've probably been there longer than any of us knew

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

The entire ACC has been there longer than most want to admit. We're only starting to feel the impact of it and the cliff is rapidly approaching.

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You're just now reaching this point?

Hokies don't want or need no part of the SEC. We need CBP to right the ship right where we are, and get back to near the top of the ACC. We should be able to get back to competing for the ACCCG, but would have no dream of finishing top half of SEC.

There might not be much of an ACC to get back to the top of before long. We would take our lumps in the SEC for a while but with that kind of cash, exposure, and recruiting advantage, I think we could be a top half of the SEC program.

Which is why I find this whole "Pry rebuild" thing a questionable strategy right now. Completely wrong time to be taking 2 steps back to take 3 steps (hopefully) forward.

Unfortunately, we got FU'd and he left the program a crater at exactly the wrong time. What I'm hoping is Pry continues to gain recruiting momentum over the next several seasons, we start win more games and look more like the old VT, and as bar1990 mentioned a few ACC schools have back door conversations with other leagues and start coming out saying they're leaving when the GoR expires. Especially if UNC got onboard with that. Then the whole league falls apart over a few years and (hopefully) we parlay our momentum into an SEC invite.

Heck, if all else fails talk 7 other schools into joining the East Coast Conference (ECC). Form new media rights and just keep on playing each other. Break the GoR by forming a new conference together and leaving the ACC.

Curious who you think SHOULD be doing the rebuild then? Cause we def need one.

I hate rude behavior in a man. Won't tolerate it.

one click shows Wagoneer's been around TKP for 7 years. Sheesh. Everyone take a nap, have a snickers or something.

My interpretation of Marc's comment was that the (offensive) scheme should have been something that could've been more easily implemented/taught to the players on the roster. AKA run something close to FU's scheme than whatever we ran most of the season.

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if that's the case then TKP should hire you to translate all of his comments

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Does this opportunity come with NIL money?

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maybe some hardee's coupons

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

if we win 6 games in 2023, does that mean we only took one step back?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I don't entirely agree with you that the rebuild is a questionable strategy, BUT it did remind me of a recent article in The Athletic where Andy Staples interviewed Danny White (Tennessee AD who has nailed 6 straight coaching hires in revenue sports across his last 3 stops). One of his coach hiring tenants is that you must hire someone who can have success in year 1:

White is adamant about this. He cares a lot less about how the hire is publicly received than about how quickly the hire can win.

"The success you have in Year 1 matters in a coaching trajectory," White said. "If I hire someone who is a terrible fit for that group of team leaders, that's who you're winning or losing with in Year 1. People talk about winning the press conference. I talk about winning Year 1 more than winning the press conference."

Reading this bit in this piece definitely made me question the offensive hire/strategy more than I had previously.

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Whit did that.

With Fuente.

Didn't work, so we did something else this time. Certainly is harder on the AD.

This is incredibly short sighted, the ACC is dead and the only thing holding it together is the GoR holding these schools financially hostage. We need cash to be competitive and we're not overcoming conference earnings with donors

Yeah I'm glad more are starting to see it.

It's no longer about where we have a better chance to have success, it's about where we need to be to continue having a viable football program. The second we are officially in a lower tier division, we are done. Days of a sold out Lane with big spotlight matchups and meaningful moments will officially be a thing of the past. If we don't end up in the SEC or Big Ten in the near future, it doesn't matter how good Pry is, we will never get back to that level again. And truthfully, we might have closed that door 10 years ago.

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This is home

It's no longer about where we have a better chance to have success, it's about where we need to be to continue having a viable football program. The second we are officially in a lower tier division, we are done. Days of a sold out Lane with big spotlight matchups and meaningful moments will officially be a thing of the past.

I disagree with this. I think we can be a nationally relevant program (most years) and be a mainstay in (the back half of) the top 25 while still remaining in the ACC. I don't think we can stay in the ACC and be perennially in the national title conversation, like we were (at some point) almost every season from 1999-2007.

Edit: I expect VT to compete like Kansas State does, even if we stay in the ACC. I don't think we will ever have a run like we did from 99-07 again. I don't think we can dominate a conference like we did from 2004-2010 (4 titles in 7 years is insane). I do think we can/should win the conference once every 5-10 years with a floor of 7ish wins/season, and a norm of 8-9 wins/season. That will be enough to create a few exciting match ups and meaningful moments each year.

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The ACC will be nationally irrelevant by the end of the decade, probably before then. Right now, sure there is a chance that the better teams in the ACC can peak to Top 10 or Top 15 and maybe get some bigger hyped games, but the longer that the financial gap remains in place and the wider the net earnings gap grows combined with the direction NIL is going, even that is probably too high a bar before too long.

When the financial gap takes full effect, everyone not in the SEC and Big Ten will be pushed way down. And we're talking a gap like comparing FBS to FCS, not P5 vs G5. And without the networks opening up their wallets for other conferences, there is literally nothing we can do to close that gap.

To put it in pop culture terms, USC and UCLA going to the Big Ten was probably this moment for college football:

The damage is done. You might think you're ok now, but its only a matter of time before things take a turn.

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I just don't think the ACC, B12, or P12 will ever lose national relevance, especially with the new playoff format.

Maybe you and I have different ideas of what counts as 'nationally relevant.' IMO App State was 'nationally relevant' for the first half of the season. Kansas State was 'nationally relevant'. Tulane was 'nationally relevant'.

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And doing nothing with any of the talent they get from VA.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Dang, that's a bummer. Big dog getting bigger.

Is this the guy who sanctioned the fight clubs that got that one kid a busted orbital socket?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Couldn't be. I don't think UVA players can hit that hard.

Bad news for us recruiting wise imo

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

make of it what you will, but Marques Hagans anagrams to Squash A German

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Penn State realizing they are losing to Pry in recruiting VA, and taking desperate measures. Appearances in the BIG are that there are two teams at the top, and Penn State ain't one of them.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

Appearances in the BIG

I think that's pretty clearly been the reality for a while now. Penn St last won the B1G East in 2016. Since then it's pretty easily been Ohio St or Michigan. Last year Penn St had 2 losses and they were blowouts against those two teams. They're a step behind those programs. The Hagans hire seems really smart for them to continue recruiting VA well.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Fontel just got a 150K raise, so hopefully we can hold onto him for a while.

Te to qb

Just read that too. Bet that was to make sure he stayed, since there are retention bonuses in there at $25K in '24, $50K in '25 and $75K in '26. Multi-year deal.

Go Hokies!!

Yeah, keep that guy happy. He's an integral part of the plan. He's helping to build something special.

Free side of TSL claims PSU came after him first too....

If so, dirty by Franklin. Should mean all bets are off for being cordial

Is it dirty? Was Pry blindsided by this?

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What if.... Franklin was simply testing Pry by trying to poach his WR coach.

Which in turn was a teaching moment for Pry to step up and pay the valued members of his staff to keep them happy and onboard.

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Naw, look at Franklin's face. You can't trust that face.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Also confirmed on non-paywall post by Mehul over at 247. I really hope Pry gets more aggressive going after PSU commits/transfers now. Franklin is a snake.

I typed tsl, but meant 247, but yes!