Sources: Northwestern has agreed to hire Ryan Smith as the school's cornerbacks coach. Smith spent the last two years at Virginia Tech as the pass game coordinator and has been at JMU, Elon and GA'd at Penn State.— Pete Thamel (@PeteThamel) December 19, 2021
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Darn it!
I thought he was staying. Dammit! I was excited for him to be a part of this new staff.
There's no way this is an upgrade
There are rumors NW is going to pay Fitz over 7 million in his new contract, making him a top 12 paid coach. NW doesn't release assistant salaries being private but if they are paying the HC that much the assistants are probably top 15-20 in pay.
Sheesh, good for them I guess but they were 3-9 (1-8) this year
Their old AD (our new ACC commish) was able to get NW alums to pony up a shit load of money. NW could be poised to be very good but those darn academic standards and such will limit it slightly
every 4-5 years, NW has a decent (8+ game) run. this is best case scenario there. fitzgerald is the ultimate homer, imagine if he ever went somewhere with a chance of more.
I think the calculus is different at the position coach level. By going to Northwestern, you get to:
I once heard James Franklin talk about how he made sure to coach in every region of the country so he could be a potential candidate for any job he wanted. Ryan Smith may be trying to do something similar.
All this to say - I don't think this is necessarily a bad look for VT; it's just a young up-and-comer making aggressive moves in his career.
Northwestern is not an upgrade over VT- even given VT wading in mediocrity for the past 8 years. The B1G however is an upgrade over the ACC. Ryan was coaching in FCS 2 years ago. Now he has a chance to coach in the B1G and expand his network and resume.
Felt good about him being retained at first, but the longer it went without any official word the less confident I became.
That's what I was wondering. Why wasn't it announced if he were staying?
These situations are always dynamic, so Pry continued to look for other options as Ryan Smith mulled/awaited options as well. Eventually, one party runs out of time. That's my best guess. I wish it would have worked out.
.... he was our pass game coordinator?
I think that's in terms of defense, like obvious 3rd and long situations where you know they are going to pass
Lol unless you're playing Corn; in which case if its 3rd and long you know it's either gonna be a QB draw or jet sweep /s
No /s needed for that one
With Corny it was 3rd down on first down
With Corny, if it's 3rd, you know it's 3rd and long.
3rd and jet sweep
It's like he saw the Tyrod 3rd and 31 against FSU and thought that was genius.
Hate to see Smitty go, but let's get Dex on line 1 as safeties/co-DC.
Let's continue to call him Poindexter since he's a f*cking Wahoo and still has no ties to VT and doesn't deserve a cool nickname.
Fair point, however it is fewer letters to type which I'm good with.
Yeah, it's really more about being lazy than being cool.
If he has to leave, glad it's somewhere we do not typically compete with directly.
I'm going to blindly believe that we're getting Dre Bly so this news can't hurt me as badly.
When does the good news start?
I mean we've definitely taken some lumps in the transfer portal but it's been more good news than bad since the Pry hire?
Agreed, was really thinking about just the last couple of days.
If you take the orange and maroon glasses off, not really. Only good news is that Cornelson is gone, the new head coach is charismatic, and some members of the new staff appear to be decent at recruiting.
We have a very junior staff that's been handed a horribly mismanaged roster and a pile of broken relationships with actual talent pipelines and anybody decent on our team is leaving. Our reputation as a football program is extremely low right now and we don't have historical prestige to lean on for "the good old days". The next season is going to be rough, but like it or not, winning games and recruiting battles in this inaugural season sets the tone for this entire staffs tenure.
I'm not saying things can't and won't get better, but it's not looking great atm.
The good news is that my opinion doesn't matter and the results will speak for themselves.
I would say "anybody experienced on our team is leaving." Yes, that matters but I wouldn't say that the players left behind aren't decent players. Heck, some of them may prove to be better with time.
I largely agree and this upcoming year is gonna be rough and I've been saying that all along -- but your second paragraph isn't really news since the Pry hire.
Disagree. After he was hired I expected him to hire an experienced offensive staff and that did not happen.
Instead we got first time head coach AND essentially two first time coordinators
We've officially made 1 offensive staff hire (Glenn), and enough to reasonably believe that we have made another (Bowen). Possible that there's a third (Hand). At worst and at best it's an incomplete.
Humor me: who did you want for OC and who did you think was reasonable?
edit: i think you're being unfairly downvoted here -- you've definitely earned a reputation as a negative nelly (and not without good reason), but i think you've got the right to be skeptical of these hires until proven otherwise -- i'm just not sure your expectations for the incoming staff jives with the state of the program they're inheriting.
Based on how much money we reportedly have left over from a budget defensive staff? Sky's the limit. I expected us to throw a bag at an established P5 coordinator.
Name them. What offensive staff especially OC would have been ok to you?
i feel like throwing a boatload of money at a high-level P5 coordinator is just begging for them to leave for a better job in a year or two for a school that can pay just as much and is either a playoff contender or in a better conference. If Pry is going to build his staff out on people he has a strong relationship with who are qualified for the job he's hiring them for, it doesn't matter as much to me whether they've had the job before. If Fuente had fired Corny and replaced him with the PSU Co-OC/TE coach/Recruiting Coordinator after the 2020 season, we'd have all been relatively happy with it. If (big if) Hand joins as OL coach, that gives another guy who has AHC/Co-OC experience, plus Glenn has OC experience. The build of the coaching staff is shaping up to be one that has a composite of experienced coaches and rising ones -- it's much easier to replace a rising coach who doesn't work out with an experienced guy who's already in-house.
the big caveat here is that I do agree that Marve is a gamble, but i think he's way
lessmore of a gamble than Bowen isedit: words are hard
The gamble with Marve though is mitigated in a big way by Pry continuing to be DC until he feels Marve is ready to be DC on his own. I'm assuming like a training wheels development program. And even after he hands over the reins, I'm sure Pry will intervene if it becomes obvious that the defense is going south.
Yes, Pry is the training wheels for Marve as DC. Hopefully we hear in spring ball that Pry is confident Marve can call the defense and turns play calling over to him after the scheme is installed. The issue with Pry retaining play calling duties into the season is that even though it's his comfort zone and he should be really good at it, being a really good defensive playcaller is only adding to the responsibilities of a first time head coach. Pry only has a finite amount of mental bandwidth and the whole point of having coordinators is so the coordinator can be the one doing the coordinating instead of the head coach
That's a good point too - the opposite risk of Pry spending more time with the D than is necessary and taking his attention away from his other HC responsibilities. It's definitely a balance he'll have to strike. I think (hope) that with some of the experience he's got on the defensive side of the ball that some of those guys can provide good input for a growing DC as well. One thing I hadn't thought of until now about having younger coordinators is the advantage of their youth. The ability to relate to the incoming players, as well as having more energy than guys who've been coaching 20, 30, or 40 years. Then it's just important that there's some older guys who can be mentors to some extent to the younger guys (like a Kill, you know, if the OC listens to him rather than getting into a fistfight). Even though the coordinators are young, it definitely seems like Pry is hiring some position coaches that have more experience. It seems like a good balance to me.
That's well said, Pry is making some gambles, but from the outside anyway they seem like well thought out gambles. We'll see if they pay off next year.
The other thing you're forgetting is that there is a finite pool of money. From some things I've seen, and people's comments on here, I'm expecting Pry to expand the pool of support staff as well. The more you pay coordinators, the less you have for those staff positions. Pry may be playing chess with his budget where we all were expecting to be seeing a game of checkers. I mean he just hired a GM. Who saw that coming? If it was anybody, it was bar1990 lol
For what it's worth, the support staff pool is seperate from the assistant coach pool. I do not know how fungible those two accounts are.
Thanks for that. Maybe I got the idea about that from some comments on here. And, like you said, I wonder if there could be overlap if Pry thought more value would come from support staff than paying a lot more for coaches. I wonder if he'll take the approach Napier did, which is pay what he can for support staff, but also take advantage of student volunteers until he can increase the size of the salary pool.
I'd think the athletic budget, at least whatever part comes in from donations is probably more flexible than the state budget unless donors earmarked it.
I'd have to find the source, but Bitter, Niziolek, or someone else had mentioned that the Pry can use the coaches pool for the support staff and vice versa.
Edit: Looked through Bitter's and Niziolek's twitter and couldn't find it. I don't remember where I saw that (likely on twitter or these boards), so perhaps I am not remembering quite right or it was just an unsubstantiated rumor.
I saw the same. It's essentially one bucket of funding for a total of like 7.75 Million or whatever it was, however they showed a split of 5.5 and 2.25
Thanks for your honesty
Next season will be painful to watch... but so was the last few seasons if we're being honest. I was expecting a lot of attrition in the portal, so I guess I was already mentally prepared for us to be here. We're in full rebuild mode for sure but now with the actual hope that we will actually rebuild with all these recruiters on staff.
Accordingly next season I'll be popping bottles of champagne when we beat UVa, Duke, GT, and directional schools and pay attention to the recruiting news for a sense of what the future holds.
I expected attrition as well, but I've expected us to be bringing people in with the portal as well and so far most of the kids we've allegedly reached out to are not p5 players let alone contenders.
Where is this from that we have been reaching out to non-P5 players?
There's the DT from Richmond that reported an offer on Twitter, also the QB from Incarnate Word.
Is this a prison or a college?
That DT from Richmond owned us earlier this year and that QB from Incarnate Word would be a steal if we were able to get him.
I want both of those players.
By this logic, we would not have taken Jerrod Evans in 2016 - a QB that won us 10 games and was able to put up more points on Clemson than Ohio State was able to, and led us in that comeback against Arkansas in the bowl game. You take talent wherever in the hell it comes from, whether it be P5, FCS, or JuCo.
I think the doom and gloom is overstated. People are aware that we have a football program. We had a good streak in 1990s/2000s. It will take a lot of rebuilding and good recruiting to get us back there. Luckily, we're in a division that's winnable. Pitt and Virginia were competing to win it this year.
We have a new and exciting coaching staff who want to be here. We had a top 30 recruiting class in the transition year. There's a lot to be optimistic about. They've got a decent story to tell.
I'd like to see the coaching staff convince some of these portal/NFL entries to stick around, but for folks with one year of eligibility left, I can see their dilemma. For me, they wouldn't be worse off to stay.
Fuente was the 'IT' coach when he arrived. This time we didn't go for the 'IT' coach, and we got what looks to be a pretty good ensemble. I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do. The challenge, of course, is that UNC and Miami hired 'IT' coaches, and are likely going to do well in fundraising and on the recruiting trail. That's our competition. According to some folks here, it's pretty rare to change the recruiting profile of a school. I guess we'll see about that.
Broken relationships? Go fix them. Are Virginia high school coaches so self-centered that they can't do what's best for their kids? Nah, I don't believe they're as shallow as all that.
So for the first time in 3 seasons, there is legitimate cause for optimism around the long term health of the program, and you're calling that the 'only' good news?
I'm sorry but this is a horrible take. Very junior staff? This staff is light years more experienced at the P5 level than the previous. We have a head coach who, yes is first-time HC, but has 30 years of experience and was a Broyles nominee. Has coached and recruited at a high level at a top P5 program. All the assistant hires so far have either considerable experience and/or a track record of being great recruiters. Saying that nothing has really changed with this new staff is just a total bs lie.
Being a great DC doesn't necessarily mean being a great HC. The fact that he decided to hire a first time DC and micromanage the defense in the beginning seems like a poor decision to me. He has other things he needs to attend to. His hire for OC is even more mind boggling.
I literally pointed out recruiting as a positive in my statement. My top two issues are coordinators and portal use so far.
Hopefully in 6 years when it's finally year 1 we can have an actual conversation about this staff that isn't emotionally charged optimism.
Call it emotional optimism if you want, but yeah, when we've had a staff of no personality guys from Oklahoma who could give two craps about VT the past six years, I love it when we get someone with a personality and connection to/passion for the school and program. That and the stated emphasis on recruiting the state and fan engagement have me far more excited already.
Again I literally called out charismatic coach and staff recruiting abilities in my original post that you responded to and called me a liar in.
We don't know that he is going to micromanage the defense next year. A lot of his hiring choices seem reaches so far to me as well, but some have been Broyles nominees. He is the professional and assembling the staff he wants.
I am the fan, alumni, and donor. My job is to support the team and cheer them on. After the last couple of years of negativity, I am definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to be optimistic.
I think we are still reaching out to portal players, but it is still an active market.
At the end of the day, all I can say is... Let's Go Hokies!
I logged in just to give you a leg. This is exactly where I am at too.
You, we, are the stakeholders. Our job is to support them, but also to give feedback.
Let's have critical discussion here. Tell me I'm an idiot because these coaching hires are great for xyz reason. But it's crazy an Emma Watson gif or a "pls ____" goes plaid and any hint of skepticism or criticism gets annihilated.
Leg
I think it's more the five posts saying almost the exact same negative thing.
We know your position on this, so at this point, it just looks like general negativity.
Don't be dissing Emma, either.
I have so many comments because so many people decided to respond. My original reply was to someone asking? if there was more good news than bad news, and so I answered my opinion. In fact my first post was positive and seemingly well received. But like 6 people took offense that and any of my responses to those were not well received lol
Sure, but you dissed emma.
Just kidding, of course.
I think there is a big difference between being excited for the potential and being critical of the hires without seeing any results. You're being very dismissive of these coaching hires without even giving them a chance to coach a single game for VT yet. It's too early to be critical. Some people (I was not one of them) were skeptical of the Fuente hire at the time but most folks had the decency to hold criticism until at least 2018. You're jumping the gun here and that's why you're posts are being "annihilated".
In times of change there are winners and losers. There is uncertainty. People can choose to be hopeful and optimistic or fearful and critical. After the last 3 years of utter ineptitude and incompetence this fan base needs a real shot of hope. These coaches represent that. It is not unreasonable to hope that they are going to do well. That hopeful optimism has been missing from these forums, and VT communities generally, for a few years now and many of us are welcoming its return with open arms. You can be skeptical but it is unfair and unreasonable to be critical at this stage. We'll know whether these coaching hires were good hires or bad hires in a couple years. Right now, we simply don't know.
Let people be hopefully optimistic. Be skeptical if you want. But FFS stop torpedoing every thread with overly critical conjecture that is completely unwarranted at this point.
I, too, have been skeptical of some of the hires but I'm not going to levy judgement against these coaches without letting them even coach a single game. I'm reserving judgement until we see some results on the field. You should too.
Agreed. I haven't downlegged you at all, you have been stating opinions and that is fine. I think there is a lot of skepticism right now, but I am hoping more optimism.
That being said, with a lot of these first timers being hired. I am enough of a skeptic to say I hope we aren't paying them like Venerables/Elliot just because we have the budget. We can pay them well with a lot of room for performance bonuses.
I'm underwhelmed by Marve as well but the more I think about it the more I'd rather have our head coach handpick his guy that he has faith can run his defense once they're fully on the same page and likely won't leave for a better job after a year or two than a hands-off guy who hires in a bigger name who just resets the cycle (edit: when he does leave). This looks like a coaching staff of guys who all want to be here and who all at least have enough of a resume to be a fit that it doesn't seem like a super risky hire if Pry is willing to cut bait if it's not working.
Unproven doesn't mean guaranteed flop or guaranteed hit, and I think there are far fewer available "proven" options who see VT as a reasonable job. You said yourself in another post that the program is pretty down in the pecking order, and I think this staff reflects that -- guys who might not exactly be big names or splash hires but who have a rapport with Pry, a coaching history (for the most part) and are excited to work with him, but also view their new position in Blacksburg as a step up from their previous gig
Also not really sure how portal use can be a negative right now when it's incomplete at best and at worst.
It's the people we're reaching out to. I don't want a roster with a bunch of 2* athletes and South Carolina's walk on qb.
Whoa - are we doing that?
To be fair, I tend to agree with this. I'm okay hiring a first time playcaller if that person knows the scheme inside and out, but I don't particularly like the head coach owning playcalling duties (but what do I know?)
I really like the Brad Glenn hire. We'll see how the rest of the offensive staff shakes out.
It's not extremely common, but there are a few high profile examples, Lincoln Riley being the most well known.
On the defensive side of the ball, recent head coaches that I could find that were calling defensive plays include Manny Diaz, Gary Patterson, Jeremy Pruitt, & Bronco Mendenhall... yikes! Not one is a college head coach next fall!
Interestingly enough, Lane Kiffin did an interview last year about surrendering playcalling duties, and he said this:
So let's hope Pry hands them off ASAP.
Yikes
Yea that's my thought as well. Its why I agreed with Fuente when he said it ludicrous that he start calling plays (as a sitting head coach). There's just too much going on at any given time.
I hope I'm wrong and that this offensive staff surprises me
God forbid anyone have any optimism.
How about we just be realistic?
i agree -- being realistic means having a wait-and-see approach about the things we don't know. but also having a humble view of where VT stands in the greater college football landscape -- pretty much irrelevant for the better part of a decade, and a true rebuild job.
That's fine. I'm done. Will wait and see. Mind locking this so I don't feel compelled to do reply to all of the comments?
And for the record I like who were allegedly going to hire for OL. That's a slam dunk and more of what I expected across the entire offensive staff.
Being realistic is discussing what is real, i.e. what has actually occurred. You are not being realistic, you are being speculative because our coaching staff has coached exactly zero games for Tech. Speculation, by definition, is not realistic. It can be optimistic if you speculate positive outcomes. It can be pessimistic if you speculate negative outcomes. It can be a mix of the two (which probably reflects an objective analysis of your opinions). I understand that you have a pessimistic view of some of our coaching hires, and some well thought out and explained reasons for those opinions. Being a pessimist (especially somewhere like on here where you're largely in the minority) can feel like being real because you feel that everyone else is blind to the risks that you see. However, given that no one on this board knows what's actually going to happen, we are all forced to speculate. Many of us, myself included, have chosen to set aside fear or worry about the risks you've pointed out, and adopt an attitude of (perhaps misguided) optimism. You feel that it is important to focus on the potential negative outcomes, and that's a perfectly valid area for speculation.
But it isn't realism, it's pessimism. That's ok, but don't act like you're the only reasonable person on a board full of misguided fools. It's a little grating to read constant criticism of coaches who've barely set foot on campus. You have no real evidence that they will be inadequate to our needs, you have only speculation, same as the rest of us. Maybe you'll be right, maybe you'll be wrong, but we won't have anything real to judge by until next year. It's all valuable discussion, but you're no more realistic than anyone else.
Respectfully disagree, but yes we will have to see. And I hope I am wrong.
I think we all hope you are wrong. I am trying to be optimistic that these coaches will rise to the occasion rather than flame out.
Realistic is that most of us don't know jack about 99% of the assistant coaches out there.
Short of us hiring someone like Brent Venables, who was one of the few coordinators with name recognition, I don't think there's a lot of folks that would generate a huge "wow" factor from fans just based on their name. Even if we bring in an assistant or coordinator from one of the teams in the CFP right now, most folks are going to be more excited about where they came from than who they are.
Agreed. I look at coaches about the same way as musicians. Many of the best musicians are plugging away at bars or small venues. Those in the know, know the talented ones but most people have never heard of them. It takes a "lucky" break to make it big (or get hired onto a big name program). We'll find out if Pry's musicians make a great band or not, but for now I'll trust he knows and can spot the talent.
I really like this analogy
I'd be curious if anyone has done an analysis on the "great" coaches to see where they came from...where they started...where they got their big break...where they changed their status from nobody to household name. And what those journeys looked like.
Part of the gamble with young coaches is that they might turn out to be stars or they might not. But wouldn't you hate to not take a chance on somebody and let them become a star elsewhere? None of us really has any idea whether these coaches are going to work out great in Blacksburg or not. But I'm taking the position that hope and optimism are what Hokies really need right now and the way I see it, these coaches are injecting those into the fanbase in huge doses right now. That makes me happy. In 3 years, we might realize these guys aren't getting it done. But for now, I'm enjoying the ride. The hope feels nice. I didn't have any hope after 2018. I have hope again now. And it's great!
The other side to this is if some turn out great, but others don't, will the HC let the not-great ones go to find some that are? Bringing "his guys" with him would seem to make it un/less likely, so good to see he's pulling people from all over, and hopefully he'll make whatever hard staffing choices need to be made in the future for the sake of the program rather than personal relationships.
I think this is the real key. If someone isn't working out, will Pry pull the trigger and replace him? In my opinion that's far more important than making a "splashy" hire. Pry is hiring people he thinks are good fits, he'll either be right or wrong. I won't be mad about him being wrong if he acts to correct the mistake.
Most great coaches come from Ohio.
It happened the week of the Miami game.
I'm not personally quite as high on Smith as others.
While he was reportedly making inroads in Recruting, I wasn't overly impressed with CB development.
Strong I think regressed significantly this year, Harvey didn't make any significant appearance and I thought he was clearly the most game-ready Fr. Waller really struggled down the stretch, though that may have been more injury-related.
Long and short, I think we'll be okay on this one. Jones has proven a capable CB coach and recruiter so I don't think this leaves a gaping hole. Leaves us with the option to hire a safeties coach or a different guy for CBs...
CB play wasn't all that great especially towards the end of the season. The Syracuse late TD probably the most egregious. But I had a hard time defending Ham or Smitty after the Miami game. Scheme and miscues absolutely burned us.
All fine points, but I generally think if we wanted him and he left anyways, that's generally a bad sign that we don't have a superior replacement in mind.
Best of luck; let's get Derek Jones at Corners and Pierson Prileou at Safety
I hate to see it but maybe it is good that a whole new staff takes over with no holdovers. Completely new coaching change and style and no influence from the past regime. Quinn could possibly take over Safety with Jones at CB and Marve and LB and Price at DL. Really excited about our Defensive staff regardless. They seem to have experience coaching multiple positions on the defense and are capable of being coordinators/standing in for other position coaches if COVID hurts the team/staff in the future, God forbid!
> no holdovers
> no influence from the last regime
> JC Price can coach DL though
Forgot about Price.
At least he is a true Hokie though.
Bring Back Midget
Antonio Banks on line 1 please
Kam Chancellor ever thought of coaching? He could be our Dre Bly.
lesson 1: stare a mofo down
lesson 2: if that mofo dares to enter your space introduce the shoulder of boom
lesson 3: that mofo's not coming back
Kam as coach, presumably...
While this is amusing, to be honest I've seen way to many attempts to lay the "shoulder of boom" only to have the ball carrier bounce off and gain 15 more yards.
What I'd rather see is sound tackling technique which gets the ball carrier to the ground.
For the love of God, yes. Way too much of dudes going for the highlight reel truck stick play instead of taking the guy down. I'd rather it look boring and get a stop than go for the truck stick and either miss, hit the guy forward, and/or get a targeting foul
Plus, the big hit frequently turns into a 15-yard penalty and a disqualification. Give me sound tackling technique executed well any day. #wrapliftdrive
So:
lesson 2.5: don't effing miss with the shoulder of boom
Did Kam miss? I mean, I don't remember it. Do we presume that he was the product of some genetic experiment wherein his dad was a Mack truck and mom was a heat seeking missle?
I know the "Shoulder of Boom" was frequently leveled by Kam in the NFL, but I honestly don't remember if that's how he played DB when he was at VT.
And it wasn't just about missing. There were numerous times where the hit did not put the ball carrier on the ground, but the DB was and the ball carrier just continued running.
I mean, I've definitely seen that among some of our DBs, just thinking it must not have happened like that with Kam, at least not very often, otherwise he probably wouldn't have been able to go pro.
I remember Kam being very raw at first while at VT, but everyone could see his measurable and potential. He wasn't great in coverage at first, a lot of folks targeted him. LSU abused him in that 2007 game that we don't speak of. Obviously he came a long way and was a great player by the end of his time here.
Pete Carroll is a great defensive mind and borderline HOF coach. He put Kam in the right exact spot to succeed and play to his strengths. That's what great defensive coaches do.
I don't recall where I saw it but someone had photoshopped an Xbox NCAA Football disk case with Kam's image on the cover and retitled "NCAA Flag Football". It was a gag poking fun at Kam's earlier collegiate effort. I probably have it saved to a disk three computers ago.
The promotion of Pierson Prioleau to safeties coach (just announced) is another piece that leads me to believe VT wanted Smith to stay. Nothing at all against Prioleau, but it feels reactionary.
Good luck to both Smith and Prioleau!
To me it seems like they were good with him staying but wouldn't pay more than they think he's worth because they had a backup plan.
Good point. Have a holiday leg.
I think Ryan Smith had the option to stay but I'm guessing Pry had already decided that if Smith left that Prioleau would be promoted. I don't think it was completely reactionary- it's been known that Smith had options.