Well, it's officially upon us, the Final Season is here.
I'm only one episode in, but....
Yeah my kids aren't watching this until they are as old as the 'kid' actors are in real life
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Well, it's been several years since season 4 so we done forgot everything. Been rewatching the entire series to refresh ourselves. I think the wife and daughter are halfway through season two and i'm on the last episode of season one.
Wife is a super fan. Watched all 4 episodes when they came out. Everything happening so far is great.
I'm fully convinced that Henry is Will's father
We met Will's father in season one when Jonathan went to see if he had taken Will and, even if we hadn't, the timeline doesn't work for Henry because he was essentially imprisoned at the lab and didn't have a chance to escape until Eleven took his inhibitor chip out.
I think the twist that happens at the end of episode 4 was setup in episode 1
I'm having a hard time understanding Henry's age. In the flashbacks of Eleven in the lab, he appeared to be ~20 when she was ~10. Giving about a 10 year age gap.
But apparently he was in high school the same time as Joyce and other parents which would make him a good 20-30 years older than the kids.
They could be fake memories. In season 4 Henry was too young for high school before he killed his family and was put in the lab. If he was in elementary school with Joyce and then created a high school fantasy from that, then he'd be a similar age to Joyce. Or he could've built that from his knowledge of Will, Steve, and the gang.
What year were the Creel murders? They say in S4
Good point I didn't even think about the murder of his family when they showed him in school
Apparently in the play (which is canon) Henry was a freshman and Joyce was a senior and the Creel murders happened around that time.
I know people have complained about some of the Marvel and Star Wars shows but it's truly wild to write a play that's canon that contains actual important context while the show it's based on is trying to stick the landing. Now they have to wrap in all the important stuff from the play into season 5 so people aren't confused.
They should've at least filmed the play and made it available on Netflix, like Hamilton on Disney+ or Oh, Hello. All they have is the behind the scenes doc.
Binged all 4 episodes with the family. My daughters are huge fans. I participate and enjoy, but not as big a fan as they are. They mentioned there are four previous episodes one should watch before watching Season 5. I'm not doing that.
I thought the first two episodes were a bit slow but it picked up in the 3rd and the ending of the 4th was awesome. Well done and I'm ready for more.
Watched the first 4 episodes yesterday, so far so good.
Wondering if we should start up a TV thread in general, because Pluribus right now is a show I am obsessed with.
I ĺoved episode 1 of pluribus when it was more dark scifi and then the next 3 episodes are a slog of B movie version of lost or something
Also binged it all yesterday. Loving it. And this is probably silly, but one of the things I loved most was Murray's alias, an homage to one of the best movies to come out of the 80s. If his truck was from Ace Tomato Co. it would have been perfection. Real missed opportunity there.
For those interested, and I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, The Critical Drinker just dropped a review of the first four episodes. Lots of spoilers btw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErkPNJWggX4
HOLY SHIT WILL HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT I just finished ep 4 like 2 minutes ago
That was so badass. I was blown away.
That might be the most I've ever liked Will. One of the most badass scenes I can ever remember seeing on TV or movies.
Is he more powerful than Eleven now?
Great question. I think he and Eleven will face off, but thinks she will win. I think Will's power is Vecna "living vicariously" through him and using him as a vessel. Regardless, Will's status shot up like a rocket.
I've watched the ending twice. I agree as one of the best scenes in a long while. Its up there with Princess Leia at the end of Rogue One and the Darth Vader scene as well.
Oh god that Rogue One scene is amazing. I love that whole movie.
I'm not sure it's just him channeling his connection to Vecna. Will's S1 experience fundamentally changed him, I think his powers aren't just the connection to the hivemind but actual powers which allow him to connect to the hivemind.
Apparently Vecnas entrance was inspired by the Vader scene at the end of Rogue One and mission accomplished
Vecna really built himself a new power suit or "Groot Suit" if you will
When he stepped through the gate I turned to my wife and said "I am Groot?"
Yeah the way that his eyes turned white and how that whole shift of power happened during Robin's monologue, I have a theory that Will will turn and side with the mind flayer.
Also something tells me that Henry is trying to fight being controlled by the mind flayer which is why he showed the same kindness with Holly as he did when he first worked with Eleven
Looking forward to the next four episodes to drop
Its different powers. Eleven uses force, Will uses connection. So because Eleven can overcome with her force I think she is more powerful but Will could have more control.
So many things here to discuss and if you know anything about D&D there are clues everywhere.
The image that Will sees of Vecna's child factory is basically the Einstein Rosen Bridge that the Science teacher draws on the chalkboard. Vecna needs 12 kids for each point of the grandfather clock that keeps chiming. So I think Vecna is trying to build a time machine of some kind. Which makes sense because the upside down is stuck at a single point in time and he could be trying to escape what is purgatory.
I also think that Vecna has two roles. One is Vecna and the other is Henry. Henry is actually trying to help. Which is why he gives Holly her favorite music and boom box. Holly is told by Mike to be the Cleric which has the ability to use dimensional door. So Henry giving Holly her music could mean she finds her own portal out to save everyone trapped. Something Max has failed to do so far.
So the question is, is Henry really a good guy helping? is that his good consciousness. If it is and he is trying to subvert Vecna then whats the motivation. To save everyone sure but then maybe its to stop the real baddie the Mindflayer who was in the upsidedown before Vecna arrived. Maybe Vecna hasn't been the puppet master at all.
Ok so then down the D&D rabbit hole, Vecna is killed by his general Kas. And they both die in the end. Kas is a vampire. Does Eddie who got killed by the bats come back? or is it Will who you could argue is part undead now? Who kills Vecna and dies with him?
If it's Will then I think Jonathan actually sacrifices himself instead.
Merry Strangemas Eve to all who celebrate
Starting tonight and binging the remainder tomorrow with the family. Looking forward to it.
just fyi - the final episode won't be available until NYE
Wife made us binge all 3 episodes last night. She isn't happy. Few cool things but "didn't match the hype" that everyone seemed to think it'd have.
Spoilers through s7
1. It makes no sense to me that Vecna needed Will to "spy" and find max by doing something that Vecna could have easily done.
2. It also doesnt make sense why Vecna can only sometimes spy through Will but then the group always keeps Will in the loop.
3. All the dialogue feels so forced
4. Will - that could have been an email
5. You can tell which of the kids will have futures on acting as rhey grow up - it aint all of them
re: 1, Vecna likes inflicting maximum pain. No, he didn't have to do that to Will. But he wanted to, because he knew it would hurt Will and make him doubt himself more. Which it did.
Re: 3 - the way they wrote 8's dialogue in the church when she was telling eleven what's happened to her was truly awful. Actually almost all of 8's dialogue has been awful.
I also heard on a podcast that there is apparently an unwritten rule at Netflix that shows have to tell and don't show because of how frequently Netflix shows are second screen shows for people. So if you try to show and don't tell it could be missed by someone scrolling on their phone. It's like in season 4 when the lights would flicker in the creel house and someone would always say something along the lines of "Vecna is here." This season has been that to the max, almost every scene has someone overtly stating what the viewer is supposed to take away from it. I don't think shows should cater to the people barely paying attention because if they miss something that's on them.
and I thought GOT ruined their final season. Mercy!
Sounds like I'm glad I stopped watching after season 4.
I thought the exact same thing. The writing is brutal and the pacing is garbage.
Just one example...Soldiers firing in a circle at demo in center is the laziest writing/scene ever...friendly fire!
I get we are suspending belief, this is sci fi after all, but there's no way that is done without shooting each other too!
Also, when did Nancy become M16 qualified to shoot and kill US military personnel just doing their duty? They aren't actually the enemy!
Great point regarding Nancy. Felt the same way. She's somehow the chosen one for all weapons because she fires a shotgun. The whole scene where their plans call for murdering US Military personnel and have no problem doing so, is a bit rich.
The scene were Nancy looks at Jonathon with that smirk on her face and asks if he knows how to use it (hand gun) as if she's competitive shooter proficient. C'mon man.
The expert marksman is the same girl that uses her left eye shooting right handed in season 1.
I also didn't like them just killing soldiers in the end. Seemed like a significant tone shift.
I don't disagree that it's a shift but the shift is more the rest of the party doing it because it has happened more than just that end scene. In season 4 Eleven destroyed an entire helicopter with soldiers in it when she escaped from Nina and got her powers back, Hopper took out several when they took the one guy captive, and eleven snapped one of their necks when she was infiltrating the base in the upside down, and hopper took out a couple in the lab too.
Lotta negativity, damn. Last 3 episodes weren't as good as the first 4, but I thoroughly enjoyed them. Emotional, dramatic, stressful, enlightening. It's not season 1 or season 4, but I am loving this season and can't wait for the finale.
Same, I'm still enjoying it *shrug*
Same.
I'm reserving judgement until we get the finale. I feel like these 3 episodes especially are victims of the release schedule where they're trying to put the pieces in place for the finale. I think people were expecting another cliffhanger leading into the finale and are upset they didn't get that vs. if we had gotten all 4 episodes at the same time and you could go from episode 7 straight into the finale.
I am worried about how much they need to tie up even with a 2+ hour finale. I think I saw something that the last 40 min of the finale is the epilogue so that leaves only 80ish minutes to wrap everything up which doesn't seem like a lot of time.
Agreed. I wanted to see some degree of closing out "some items" during these last 3 episodes.
And my last thought was now they have to shove 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag in the finale.
Holy fuck the writing is bad. So much overexplaining.
I wish I could be positive about these last three episodes but man was that an overall disappointment. There were moments that I enjoyed, however, the excessive dialogue moments were awful and unnecessary.
My son said he felt like a little kid was telling a story...all over the place and full of babble. My wife called them "fluff" and "fillers".
I was underwhelmed. My favorite part was when Dustin coined the other universe "A, for the Abyss", when they referenced D&D, Hopper's "Jesus Christ" had me rolling. I rewatched that little scene a few times. That was a home run. Love anything Murray too.
Robin's joke towards Steve and his reaction had me in stitches. That scene was fantastic
The thing that bugs me the most is how tame the Upside Down is now. No demobats, very few to no demogorgons, you can literally just hang out there and it's fine.
I am ok with that if the reason is that vecna and mind flayer are not there anymore and are chilling on the other side of the bridge. To me it is more egregious that the military is still using small arms fire when they run into the monsters and never winning but somehow have a foothold in the ud
I hadn't considered that it's quieter because the bad guys are on the other side, good theory!
If nothing else there are some great Tik Toks coming out of this season.
Can anyone truly explain why we needed Will to announce he "doesn't like girls"?
Escape the demonic monster that's trying to detroy Hawkins/Earth and that's what the writers think is important to announce right after? and then they proceed with their plans against Vecna. wtf?
No one cares if characters are gay but they seemed... forced.
Eleven fought Vecna with her powers deriving from her happiest memories. She told Will about it.
Will used his happiest memories, but was still limited because of fear.
We learned that his biggest fear which Vecna used against him, was the fear of not being accepted for being gay.
By coming out, and being accepted by those closest to him, that fear is eliminated, removing Vecna's avenue of attack.
I follow everything you said here. But for all the build up in the last 4+ seasons, people knowing and accepting that he is gay is what's going to indirectly help Will/them ultimately defeat Vecna? Woof... alrighty then... Hope the final episode is epic.
It was a necessary moment, but the scene felt overdone and too dragged out. They could've tightened it up and then had his friends be like "yeah we know dude, we've known for a while" and I think it would've been emotionally rewarding. It was so long that it started to feel forced and took the viewer out of the moment.
There is no good answer.
Vecna has thoroughly explored Will's mind and knows his fears. His fear of not being accepted is giving Vecna power over him. Like Dipshit Derek being afraid of Vecna killing his parents and thus not supporting Holly. My take is that by coming out he is shedding that control. But you are right - overly forced for a basic blackmail/leverage play.
Drinking. Glad I am on PTO.
I am still into it, but I have to admit that (being Succinct) I fast-forwarded through some of the dialogue and didn't miss a thing. I also find 008 annoying, as I did back in Season 2 (or 3) in that one oddball episode. Why include her at all in the series?
Kali is an intermediate deity in the Abyss in DnD.
Some are saying bc she's now talking with a British accent it's Vecna talking through her.
Didn't realize the final episode won't hit Netflix till 8pm. Won't be able to watch till tomorrow afternoon. Ugh
I do think some of the problems with how the episodes are being received stem from how the season was released in bits and pieces. There was really no reason to do that at all, they should've just dropped them all at once.
That said, upon reflection some of the critiques are valid especially the ones about writing and pacing. Max and Holly should've been booking it to their little exit portals instead of taking 20 minutes to say goodbye to each other for instance. A couple of lines would've sufficed. There were a few other moments like that when they just hit the pause button on the action to have Some Dialogue in front of the viewer, but this is the one that's really stuck in my memory.
Not touching Will's coming-out scene on here, other than to say I didn't have an issue with it existing.
That Max and Holly extended goodbye had me almost throwing things at the TV to get them to wake up and RUN to their respective portals. That was a fast-forward scene for me, among others.
Yeah that was superfluous and stressed me the f out
The other valid criticism I've seen about the Max/Holly scene other than shouting at them to run is that Max:
1) didn't say that Holly couldn't come through the portal with her until the very moment she was about to leave. Like that would have been helpful to prep Holly for before that moment.
2) somehow made the discovery that she didn't need Running Up That Hill until her pep talk to Holly. Like, if Lucas turns off the tape because the demodogs and the portal doesn't disappear because he was her anchor or something and then she has the realization that Holly doesn't need the music that's a great scene. But Lucas has a literal line that he needs to keep it on because she could be coming back.
That scene felt very rushed and a lot of it unearned. I wish they had cut a few of the (many) scenes of people explicitly stating their plans and added just a bit more to the Max/Holly scenes to make that payoff hit harder.
My biggest complaint over the whole thing is that this didn't come out years ago. The kids are too old to be believable for the ages they are supposed to be, the writing isn't good enough to justify the delay and it all feels rushed, and yet not rushed at the same time.
It feeling rushed and not rushed at the same time is spot on. There was a long break between season 3 and 4 but season 4 was written so well you didn't really notice. And the storyline for season 4 felt so intentional and built up to a great climax that it really makes me wonder what happened with season 5. The majority of the plot we've seen this season could have been condensed into 2 or 3 long episodes. Don't get me wrong, there have been some really high highs but, like I mentioned above, so much of this season has been people stating their plans and using a clever analogy to explain it that it feels like a lot has happened but also nothing has happened.
Also, what was the point of El and Dr. Owen's plotline in season 4 other than to get her powers back so that she can bring Max back to life? She's been so nerfed this season (to the point that the military even has an easy solution to countering her powers) but Dr. Owens kept say she is literally the worlds only hope just for her to ...not do anything of significance
The lengthy delays between seasons should have had them alter the script to allow more time to pass in-universe. By the end you couldn't even pretend these kids were still underclassmen in high school, let alone the entire story start to finish happening in 3 years. It really distracts from the story when the actors all look 10 years older than the ages they are supposed to be portraying. That graduation ceremony at the end might as well have been for postgraduate degrees, not high school.
And everything that took place on the other planet except for the scene in the chamber was so obviously done in front of a green screen that it again just distracted a bit.
Which is a big difference from the first season when everything was a practical effect and it was all better for it
Welp, the wife made demogorgon chocolate covered strawberries and pineapple upside down cake for the finale.
just dropped, starting last episode now....
Honestly better than i expected... Crazy they soent an hour on the epilogue
A little underwhelming for me and yes, way too much on the epilogue
My bar for the finale was pretty low, and it was definitely much better than I expected. It was kind of a microcosm of the whole season so it was not without its faults:
-the Steve fake out (and cut to black for no reason?) was annoying
-the final battle with Vecna/the mind flayer seemed pretty rushed (plus how Lucas instantly came up with the plan for them to draw it into the valley and then everyone seemingly teleporting to the top of the cliffs to execute it)
-the general waste of Linda Hamilton and the military storyline (I was really hoping it would've been something other than just trying to redo Brenner's program).
-it's still weird to me that they make multiple references to Joyce going to high school with Henry and directing a play he was in and she comes face to face with him twice and neither acknowledges it
-We still don't know who opened the door to the shed where will was hiding in the upside down in season 1. The duffers explicitly said that the demos don't have telekinesis and that the question of who opens it would be answered this season, but I guess it was Vecna? But then the demo still took him back to the library where Vecna then showed up again?
But it had some pretty good moments that actually surprised me:
-Henry choosing to be two parts of the same coin with the mind flayer. I was worried they would do the 11 + 8 + 1 =20 (aka the crit hit they rolled in Eddies campaign in season 4) theory that's been going around and have him turn good at the last second.
-Vecna messing with Hopper was good, and kind of incepting by telling him elevens plan and then making Hopper think he shot eleven to make him break her out and take her off the board in his mind was really clever.
-On the inception point, I'm surprised they left elevens fate so open ended but I like it. Even my wife and I have different thoughts on what happened to her (I think Mikes theory makes a lot of sense, my wife thought it was pretty clear she died).
I didn't mind the epilogue being so long, I honestly wish they'd just made the finale longer and added more time to the middle battle to make it feel less rushed (but I know budgets exist for a reason, and that battle wasn't cheap). I also didn't mind no major deaths, I get why people wanted that but the duffers have been saying for a while now that they didn't want to do that so it shouldn't have been a huge surprise.
I'm sure there's more I'll think of, but overall I enjoyed it. These finales are really hard, and I think they largely landed the plane.
Happy New Year Folks.
Just finished it. 1H of the episode was so/so.
The 2H, I really liked and some parts loved. Overall, they redeemed themselves with how well they ended it vs the last 3 episodes.
Hellfire lives and is stronger than ever
It wasn't good enough for me.
Defeating the mindflayer was easier than running through VT's defense.
How much do you have to pay in NIL for linebackers to use flame throwers?
Could we get one named dipshit Derek?!
I yelled at the TV in disbelief at how quickly the entire gang got to the top of that massive cliff
They absolutely fucked away that final season. Writing was ass, story was ass, acting was ass. Honestly worse than game of thrones.
Agreed!
GOT had a more drastic dropoff from s5 on while stranger things had some real snoozer seasons on the middle that prevented it being a huge dropoff
Well.......now what?
Fallout
The Pitt season 2 starts next week!
I caught a good chunk of S1 during a marathon they were running yesterday. It definitely drew me in so I will be watching.
As for Stranger Things S5 I finally finished over the weekend. I agree with others that they did not really stick the landing here, but would say it was not nearly as disappointing as GOT. A lot of it does feel forced and I think it goes to show when you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. Overall though, I still enjoyed it.
Sorry guys, I thought they stuck the landing. Very cathartic.
More than anything else, I'm glad that all the moronic "Kali is the Mind Flayer" nonsense that was all up and down my feed in the last week got shut down.
I find it amusing that the Kate Bush song is like 25x more popular now than it was in 1985. I bet she's happy too with the influx of $$$
Fun fact: I believe this is the first (non-Prince) movie or TV show that's won the rights to use Purple Rain
The Prince estate says that the popularity surge of Kate Bush was a factor in that decision (read: we like $$$)
Also, if ya'll have never listened to her album Hounds of Love give it a listen. The first half especially is banger after banger.
Overall, I enjoyed it. I think it's probably on the lower tier of Stranger Things seasons for me, but still had a lot of fun with it. I really liked each character's individual ending, including Eleven's open-ended one. My two main complaints would be:
We actually started a re-watch from the beginning that night after we watched the finale, so I'm excited to see if my opinion of seasons changes at all watching them all in a row instead of with the 1-2+ year breaks when they were released.