I live in the heart of SEC country and am hearing my all my SEC coworkers and friends on a daily basis. It's quite obvious that if VT were a SEC team, Beamer would be gone at the end of season. A lot of people in the SEC thinks he should have retired a few years ago. What does everyone have to say on this issue. At this point, VT is just playing for Bowl eligibility. Either way, this season is not going the way anyone envisioned. Have much time has Beamer bought for the program he built?
And here's the follow up questions. Who would replace him? Is there a big name coach VT can go and get and paid the necessary $$$. Or does Bud get his shot? Is he fit to be a HC? At the very least, changes on the offensive side need to be made, that much is blatantly clear. Who replaces Stinespring and O'Cain? Will a new OC need more money than Bud Foster is being paid?
I hear everyone stating our problems, but what's the solution. Who replaces the people you want to see go? And let's be realistic about this. VT doesn't have the money to hire Nick Saban.
Comments
Strengths = weaknesses
It's tough because everybody knows that the key ingredient to Beamer's success has been loyalty, which has brought consistency. But at the same time his loyalty has held him back. I'm afraid that I don't believe Beamer can be ruthless enough to make the changes to win a national championship.
I don't think there is any chance whatsoever of Beamer getting fired, if results were to be so bad i.e. if we were to lose out and get thrashed by UVA, he would resign.
But then that throws up the next problem which is I don't think Bud would be the right man to take us forward, and how do you hire someone ahead of him as HC and keep him happy...basically what I'm saying is I think it's all or nothing, if Beamer goes I think Bud would go if he didn't get the big job and who in their right mind would keep the current Offensive staff in place?
Bud Foster definitely doesn't have Beamer personal charm. That's important when representing the program to the press and to the fan base.
i think that's overrated in many ways .. nick saban isn't the most personable guy .. hell -- think bobby knight <<< that's the kind of guy we want.
i don't think it has that much to do with his demeanor/non politicially correct attitude. i like that in a coach. i think it has much more to do with his ability (or lack there-of) to recruit and to think like a head coach ... but unless they can go get a pretty big name, i think that bud has earned a shot over some mac/fcs head coach (if he wants a shot). i think that shane beamer getting it (this young) would have red flags all over it. personally, i'd like to steal a good (young) coach away from another fbs team .. fedora is going to turn out to be a hell of a grab for unc i think .. peterson would be a hell of a grab but don't think we'd get him. i think that we have a few more yrs to worry bout this though. cfb has definitely earned himself a couple of off-yrs before people start clammering for his head .. at least a couple.
newsome should go though. his line was pushed around by austin peay at times and is being blown up by every team that we play ... inexcusable << fsu's dline will ABSOLUTELY dominate them at the LOS.
YES it's really time for Beamer to go. I've been calling for this for at least a year now.
I understand that he got us here and he's the main reason that our program is what it is and why we love the Hokies so much and why this site even exists. I get all that, trust me I do, but still enough is enough. I think most Hokie fans agree with me but don't want to let him go either out of loyalty or out of fear that we won't be as good as we are now.
If you're problem is loyalty then my response is this "If Beamer won (or wins) a nat'l champ then he can be our coach until he dies because then he becomes more important to our program than Michael Vick" I wanted Beamer gone before this season started but if we would have won the natl champ this year then I would have shut up forever about replacing him. How much longer can we be loyal to a coach that doesn't give us what we want?
And if you're problem is fear of failure then my response is this "I feel very confident that we can get a proven, successful coach to replace him. Even though we blow all the big games, we're still nationally known and widely respected. To add to that, we're in one of the best states for high school recruits. What up and coming coach at a smaller school wouldn't want to come here? Besides, if we stick with Beamer we'll never win a national championship. It's just the truth"
My vote goes to Paul Roads from Iowa State. He's proven that he's a good coach and we're a better program than ISU. Or what about Mike Leach? If I was him I'd rather be the head coach at Virginia Tech than washington state. And if you're response to Leach is that he put a concussed kid in a closet then we're not on the same page. I realize that was a terrible thing to do and I'm not justifying his previous actions, but if we want to be an elite program competing with the traditional powerhouses then we have to give up this idea that being a standup program is more important than being a powerhouse program because it's not. I don't want us to lose all morals and end up like unc or penn state or anything similar, but we need to treat this college football thing like the business it is and go all in it to win it, and you don't do that by keeping a coach that consistently loses even if he is a major part of who we are. I believe it was Joe that compared us kicking Beamer out to fsu kicking Bowden out, but it's not at all. Bobby won them championshipS and they kicked him out.
Paul Roads is my first choice though, Leach was just a thought.
I'm sure the majority of keyplayers will have some distaste with this post, but I feel very good finally getting some of this off my chest. I love Beamer and I love what he's done for our school and what he's done for me personally as a huge Hokies fan but the time has come.
I'd argue that he COULD stay...
Look, head coach is largely a figurehead who delegates a LOT... that said, he needs to look at who he is delegating TOO.
Frank needs to take a step back and remember where we came from from a program perspective- and that's a blue collar, hard nosed program that: 1) ran the dang football, 2) recruited players who, worked hard, did not feel 'privileged' had a chip on their shoulders with a nasty streak- not necessarily the top recruits.
He then needs to look at this staff and see who he's delegating the development of HIS program to. Who can develop those players with the proper attitude plus technique. Stinespring and Newsome ain't cutting it. Guys like Torrian Gray are. Bottom line- Frank, this is your 1992 moment... you may not be called in to the AD's office like you were by Dave Braine in '92 and told this is a business (and to put friendships aside), so your're going to have gain that impetus for staff change from within.
Confused by Paul Rhoads
You want to replace Beamer with a "proven, successful coach" and your go to is a coach that is 10-17 in conference play? And Leach? Sure, you'll score 30-50 pts a game, but you're giving up 40-70 pts a game. No thanks.
Can VT get a truly talented, up and coming coach? Yea, possibly. VT is a consistent winner, has dominated a BCS conference, and located in a hotbed for recruiting. But I don't think Weaver is a talented enough AD to hire one. Maybe, James Johnson is available.
If VT were to replace Beamer (which I don't think they should until he retires), then the hottest names off the top of my head would be:
Chad Morris, Frank Solich, and Brent Pease (all my jokes about him are really about envy. Seriously, if you can turn Kellen Moore into a Heisman contender, think what you could do with a Logan Thomas).
yea Rhoads could do better, and we would give him better that iowa state does. He's probably not the answer but I like him over Solich. I kinda just threw him out there, my bad, but I think you get what I mean.
Your mention of Weaver is another problem. I don't think it's that Weaver isn't talented enough, per say, I just think Beamer has more power than him when it comes to matters of Beamer's career.
And Beamer has earned that, which is why I think Beamer should understand there's better options for his alma mater and resign with dignity. I don't want a fiasco like fsu anymore than the next Hokie fan. He can just pass it on to someone else, perhaps someone you mentioned, and retire (or remain on staff as his contract states) and be a fan/investor of a true national title contender with a lot of pride knowing that he helped make it happen. Even give him a ring if we do win the crystal ball.
No hard feelings to anybody that disagrees. I'm not a fickle fan as the guy down the line says. I am a true, real, loud, passionate fan. I love my Hokies forever and I will always bleed orange and maroon. I will be in the Georgia dome in 11 months screaming Buck Fama whether Beamer's in the 'owners' box or on the sideline. Just being honest and responding.
Frank Solich
could win us games by just staring deep into the eyes of the opposing QB
http://www.afca.com/user_images/FrankSolich.jpg
For me
Being a standup program is more important than being elite.
I want a national championship as much as anyone ever, but if I have to cheat for it, don't want it.
I didn't say I want us to cheat for it and I never condoned cheating, hence the unc mention. I'm saying that we need to lose this thought that being loyal to our coaches is more important than being an elite program. And lose the thought that preserving 250 year old trees is more important than being an elite program. Etc.
Sorry that my message wasn't expressed more clearly, but I never ever want us to cheat or do anything similar. In fact, I was having a talk with a Hokies fan who also wants Beamer gone and he said, I kind of hope for some kind of scandal that will force him out. And to that I quickly disagreed saying "I'd rather continue with our current status as good but not great, than have a scandal and tarnish Beamer's name and everything that came with it." I'm not an immoral, only-football-matters kind of person.
Just saying that I think some of our priorities need to change to reflect the business that we're in.
My answers
Beamer should be the HC until it is obivious that he is not capable of handling that role. I think we are in a different situation, given he built this program from nothing, but we shouldnt become a F$U or P$U and allow him to stay around well after his expiration date.
As far as Foster I dont like seeing coordinators becoming head coaches where they were coordinators. It seems for every one that works out well ,Tom Osborn, there are five or six Larry Cokers. My thought is if Foster wanted/wants to be an HC he should go to a mid major program and build his resume there and work his way to a major program. (Note: I would hate to see this happen I like Bud Foster and I love that he is our DC. This is not meant in anyway to be a knock on him.)
If/when we replace Beamer we should hire someone with HC experience somewhere else. I prefer a mid major because they are usually younger, have taken programs that are not good and made them relevant, and had to develop lesser talent.
Finally the offense, I can't answer this. I dont know how much of our current system is caused by Beamer directly. I think we need a clear system (Spread/Power/etc) and recruit to it. This multiple offense is flexible but it seems that this flexiblity is used to fit whatever offense is trendy instead of the talent we have.
These are my thoughts
If Virginia Tech was a longterm SEC program with a goal of winning a national championship, Beamer would at least be on the hot seat right now. The SEC used to be as good ol' boy as Virginia Tech, Tennessee firing Phil Fulmer for Lane Kiffin, a true outsider, was probably the last remaining program to stop valuing loyalty to those who had played for a school and/or been a long tenured coach. Now the SEC is a what-have-you-done-lately league, much like the NFL.
Does Beamer deserve to be fired? No. The man has won an impressive amount of football games, and seeing how hard it's been to win this season, with a pretty talented roster, it should make you appreciated the 10-game win streak more. Furthermore, the season is not over yet. I know it looks bleak, and I'm not optimistic, but the man has turned piss-poor starts into ACC Championships before.
In the not so distant future, he'll have tough staff decisions to make. If he's loyal to a fault, and losing 5-6 games becomes a trend, then I think a discussion is worthwhile and warranted. At some point further down the road a new athletic director will need to be hired, (s)he and Beamer will have to outline a clear succession plan (that doesn't mean handing the job to someone on the staff), if such a plan is not already in place.
I've said this before on the site, but when the time comes to find a new coach I don't want it handed to a current member of the staff. The program should conduct a national search and hire the best candidate. Preferably the person is young, but experienced and has ties to the region. If that person is already on the staff, I'm content with that because there are talented young coaches onboard that I don't want to lose. It probably goes without saying, but Jim Weaver shouldn't make the decision.
*Cough* Torrian Gray *Cough*
Yup. As of right now, of all the coaches on the staff I'd take Torrian to be the next head coach. However, I really think any head coach needs previous head coach or coordinator experience.
Here's my thinking: Beamer
Here's my thinking:
Beamer will retire and become AD, probably around the time weaver steps down as AD due to illness +/- a year or two. Beamer, being loyal to a fault as always and now the Athletic Director of Virginia Tech, will promote internally and not conduct a national coaching search. My guess is Torrian Grey or maybe even Shane. But in any case it will be internal because Frank will be AD and basically calling the shots for his replacement.
Thinking the same thing but didnt put in my post
When he is ready let Frank become AD but only after the next HC is named so he doesn't get too much power over the decision.
I really have no clue why everyone is in denial about the amount of power Beamer has in all of this. Frank is loyal to a fault and has a problem installing trust in outside sources. That philosophy will carry over to when he becomes AD and ultimately becomes the guy who choose our new head coach, which will be internal.
I'm sure some bs song and dance will be put on to please some of the alumni, where some "outside candidates" are interviewed but this will be internal because it will be Frank's decision.
If you think otherwise I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to show you.
Why would Frank make a good AD?
Not to be cross, but what has Beamer done that demonstrates he'd be a good AD?
IMO, the Athletic Director needs to have a lot more business sense than what is required of the coaching staff, and, I would argue, it takes a different personality to be a successful AD
I know there's a lot of hate for Weaver, but he has done a really good job at Tech's AD. We have an athletic department that runs in the black - which is actually a rare occurrence in college sports.
As much as I love Coach Beamer, and respect everything he has done for Virginia Tech, I really don't see how he'd made a good AD.
Frank as AD
I see him as more of a figure head...His staff would run the department or he could be an assistant AD. Basically a job to keep him around for recruiting/fundraising like Tom Osborne
Is there any substance to this?
I just don't see Beamer wanting to be AD. I see Beamer golfing every day and soaking up the sun when he retires. Cheryl will also probably have a strong say in what Beamer does when he retires.
Frank cares too much about Virginia Tech to just leave and play golf all day. He will want to do whatever he can to help the program until he is physically unable to do so. That may not be AD, but if history dictates anything (re: Tom Osborne) Steger, or whoever the current president is at the time, will offer him the opportunity to serve the university as AD, and I would be shocked if he turned it down.
Also, re: Tom Osborne, his primary focus was fundraising and being figurehead but he was also heavily involved in the courting of Pelini to Lincoln. Again, if history dictates anything, Frank will be that same driving force to find his replacement and considering everything I've already stated, that replacement will come from within the current ranks.
Unbelieveable!
Among many things, I appreciate that my time in Blacksburg reinforced that certain behaviors are expected in the Hokie Nation:
1. You are loyal to your colleagues and can expect that loyalty to be reciprocated.
2. You maintain your composure and dignity when things are tough and others are showing their character flaws.
3. You treat people fairly and demonstrate compassion for those who are suffering or less fortunate.
4. You do the "right thing" even when the personal costs are high or your choice is unpopular.
I don't really know much about football (and neither do you if you are being honest with yourself!), but I do know that you Monday quarterbacks should show some character, gut it up, admit that this season will not be Frank's best, and do everything you can to help the players and coaches make sure next season is better. That includes supporting your team during these bad times. Though I believe somewhat in your Freedom of Speech, any potential recruit reading your posts should have second thoughts about wanting to play for a university whose fans are so fickle.
Your continuing character assassination of the coaches, players, and administrators (...oh, I love Frank but I cannot resist the chance to stab him in the back...) on this board and on other boards is beneath the dignity of a Hokie. Would you make such venomous statements if you could not hide behind the anonymity provided by your self selected user name? If Cornell Brown or Shane Beamer was sitting across the dinner table, would you have the cojones to tell them what you are saying in your posts?
Hokies stand behind our own kind. You don't have to like this year (I sure don't) but I am encouraging you to stop these Wahoo-like verbal tantrums; they are not Virgina Tech.
Oh yeah, before someone gets flip, my name is NOT Bryan Stinespring! If you want my number or email address, just drop a note.
Excuse me?
Every comment I've in this post, except quite possible your's, has been pretty respectful and not over the top.
Whoa, pump the brakes there champ
This is a mature discussion about the future of the program, beyond Frank Beamer. Of course everyone here would like to see ol Beams ride off into the sunset with a crystal ball, but it appears that time has past. Frank did this to himself by putting his friends/family/coaches above the program and squandering the most talent VT has ever had and causing the program become stagnant. No one coach, trainer or player should be above the VT Football program and the goal of a MNC; not even Frank Beamer.
Good
The coaches are not on the field. There has been a lot of poor execution this year. Some of that has to do with coaching but the coaches don't make turnovers, drop passes, miss blocks, or fail to finish plays.
The program has been at a high level for a long time. I've seen many years of frustration prior to the success. There needs to be some leadership and passion on the field to turn this year around.
Fans who have never seen failure need to suck it up and accept that there will be some down years. Think about Miami or FSU or even Alabama prior to Saban arriving. These things happen.
Is CFB past his prime? Has he or his staff lost their touch?
If you want changes expect that there will not be any quick turnaround. Is coaching VT that desirable a job that we will have top level coaches beating down our door to come here? The program and CFB are what make us respectable.
oh where, oh where can my beamerball be
The biggest problem I have with Frank as of late is that he has seemed to forgotten what was one of the most important aspects for us to become such a national fixture and turn the tide of big games/compel the offense and defense to victory:
BeamerBall.
Exactly
Beamerball is gone, and that's the problem. The VT identity is completely lost. I don't think it's coming back either. But, Beamer gets the chance to put the stamp on his tenure. His contract is until 2016, which is also the year I believe he retires (unless the crystal ball miraculously appears in his empty trophy case). Will he fade away, or finish with a fury?
To finish strong, he needs to figure out how to get that ballhawking, fear envoking Defense back along with stability in Special Teams.
Sadly, the ballhawking you yearn for all starts with the defensive line creating pressure and getting to the QB. When reminiscing about years past when we had guys like Brandon Flowers, Bam Bam Kam, Macho Harris, and the like, the one thing they had in common (besides being NFL talent) was a defensive line/lineback corps that put qbs on their backs. Pressure on the qb makes Bonner and Cole look a WHOLE lot better. While we thought the DL would be our greatest strength this year and would help alleviate some of the green guys in the defensive backfield, to date, we were sadly mistaken.
Eventual coach
Beamer shouldn't have to go just yet. I know we haven't been winning the biggest games but we are always at the top of the conference. I'd love to see us get over the hump, don't get me wrong, but its not like we've been a middle of the pack ACC team or something. Hopefully Shane Beamer really helps out with the recruiting and gets us some better talent.
I used to think that Bud Foster deserves the HC gig and it would be insane if it were any other way. But now I'm not so sure. Head Coach is much different than Coordinator and I'm not so sure about giving someone their first shot at it. VT is definitely worthy of a tried and true HC. Hopefully when the time comes there'll be someone who is clearly deserving a promotion from his mid-level school. We'll see...
Hypothetically
Lets say for some unforeseen circumstances, Frank was fired tomorrow.
Who are some guys you all think would fit the 'Virginia Tech ideals' well?
I really like Chris Peterson.
He seems to embrace the underdog enigma, recruits well, has a well-known offensive identity, and could finally show off his coaching abilities on the national bowl game stage.
Chris Petersen isn't coming to Virginia. He is at home in Boise, and any opportunities that would interest him would have big dollar signs and be in the western half of the country. I have also heard rumors that he is a Scientologist and that is a big factor in him not getting a higher profile job, but my limited internet research seems to refute those rumors.
Petersen job offers
I think I read somewhere that he was a front runner for the UCLA job along with other PAC-12 teams but turned them down to stay at Boise. I figured he liked being a big fish in a small pond.
One season does not a career make.
I've been supremely frustrated by this season and previous season where they have been slow out of the gate or shown up flat in big games. It's apparent something needs to be changed, but I don't think that Beamer should be on the chopping block. One "down" season is not enough to force him into retirement or outright fire him. I do think that he deserves the benefit of the doubt for a while before the thought of replacing him comes up. Do we really want to do what FSU did?
Just think - would VT be in the same place it is now if Beamer had been fired after his 6th season going 2-8-1? Yes, most programs now wouldn't have kept him - but I still think that his record should give him a little more slack than most.
And more to your point.
Before the 10-win streak started the Hokies were disappointing based on how they started/who they lost to: 8-4, 10-4, 8-5 in 2001-03. Beamer turned it around.
next coach?
If Frank does retire, you are crazy to think someone outside the Virginia Tech "family" will replace him. Be realistic. I'm not saying promoting someone from within is the right or wrongway to go, but considering how this program was built there is no way VT replaces him with some newcomer to the VT football "family."
I completely disagree
I think we all need to stop calling for Frank's head. He got us here. We can't just try and write him off as soon as we dont have a good season. Frank Beamer is not our teams problem. Firing Beamer will demoralize the entire program and I honestly dont think another coach we could afford could do any better.
He is the face of our program, and we need to let him leave when he feels ready (probably 2016). I still think Beamer could be a successful HC if we made some changes on the offensive side of our coaching staff.
Can't we just keep calling for Stiney, O'cain, and Newsome and hope that this poor season actually brings that, instead of making outlandish remarks and cutting down the heart of our program. No good can come from trying to put Beamer on the hot seat. We all know there is not a chance in hell Beamer gets fired so lets not break the dudes spirits.
I think its pretty shitty to start wanting Beamer gone. We're not FSU
I don't think anyone here would want to see the father of the modern VT football program fired, but Frank has hitched his wagon to Stineocainspring, and Newsome by his own doing. And regardless of what people say, Frank is not the 'heart' of the football program. The fans and the school are the heart of the football program. Frank is the executive of the football program who is not executing. Time is running out.
In the UGANDA/USC game, the trivia question...
...was, "Who are the three oldest Head Coaches currently?"
Surprisingly, Beamer was not one of them. The three mentioned (Spurrier, Snyder and Solich)... are also undefeated.
I'm not saying this discussion is a direct reflection of Beamers age. My gut is that it is about fifth on the list of reasons why we are discussing this. But I thought this was an interesting data point...somewhat relevant to this discussion.
By the way, Bruce Arians and Todd Grantham will get interviewed in this scenario.
Correct.
"By the way, Bruce Arians and Todd Grantham will get interviewed in this scenario."
Grantham still has familial ties in SWVA. He'd probably give the job a serious thought if interviewed. And I definitely think he would be considered for the job.
Who would want to come to Blacksburg?
If a coach with 200+ wins and a bowl streak going back to 1993 suddenly isn't good enough?
I mean, this is kind of an absurd premise.
Coach Beamer will be here until he retires - deservedly so.
I hope he retires with a national championship, but if not, he's still a Hall of Famer.
I think it will be seen as a very good opportunity
Coaches have too much ego to lament a coach being run out of a job after success. They will assume they are the ones to take us to the proverbial next level. We won't get lateral top 25 program coaches, but we will have a lot of very good options.
Just throwing this out there
I think Bill Cowher is available...if he ever wanted to leave the studio
Just image this on the side line:
If that ever (haha) happened and he decided to keep Bud as DC (and Bud decided to stay), both of their heads would probably explode from scowling/yelling in each other's direction.
It would be the proverbial: immovable object meets unstoppable force. The universe would cease to exist.
This is a catch 22 proposition. If the question is, can Beamer win a national championship and if not he needs to go, then yes, I think it is time. However, I don't think that is that reasonable expectation.
In college football, there is a top tier of programs that should be on top all of the time. Those schools (Alabama, Texas, USC, LSU) will be on top because their access to resources and top recruits is almost unlimited. Their only drops have taken place when they had terrible coaches (Mike Shula, John Mackovic, Paul Hackett, Gerry Dinardo.) Then, there is a second tier of programs which can climb to the top based on a sudden influx of resources and good luck with recruits. I think the Hokies fit into that program, and finds itself in that period of transition similar to other schools with similar profiles, like Tennessee. In Knoxville, expectations are SEC/National Title or bust, despite being the second preference in the mind of most SEC recruits. It will suffer up and down periods, and when people get ancy and want a good coach fired who brought you to that elite level, sometimes you end up with Lane Kiffen as your coach. The grass isn't always greener, and, while this may be a shock, if Beamer was fired I don't believe the job would be attractive to dynamic candidates.
At the same time, I think Beamer clearly must change the way he does business. Some may accuse Beamer of cronyism, but at the best case he has retained people on his staff that do not pay attention to detail. The offensive staff is filled with people who must think you can learn the nuances of a new offensive philosophy in a weekend. The defensive staff sinks or swims with a hybird defensive philosophy that can make average talents look great, but limits great talents. I think it is clear that the staff needs professionals, not buddies, who can teach a philosophy and recruit to it, and take the next step.
To tack on to what you said
I was looking over some stuff about Al Groh and his career and saw that Bill Walsh had made UVA a very respectable program before he retired and look at them now.
Bill Walsh? I think you mean George Welsh. Bill Walsh had two tenures with Stanford sandwiching his time with the 49ers.
Sorry
George Walsh. You are correct. Apparently he lived across the street from me when I was growing up.
French
"if Beamer was fired I don't believe the job would be attractive to dynamic candidates."
Just wondering, why do you think that? I believe it would be attractive for a few reasons.
The last paragraph, well said. But you mention the whole staff. Just wondering, does that mean you think Beamer should get rid of the offensive side and Bud's side?
Also, the large majority want the offensive side gone, but the defensive side hasn't been brought up too much ie Bud, and Torrian is a fan fav as well. The defense has been faltering recently so it's a valid point. I think if we get an outside hire to replace Beamer it should be up to him and the AD.
Your thoughts?
Expectations are greater than the resources available. That is why I don't think it is an ideal job.
If they did let go of Beamer (not something I am advocating for), Grantham would be an interesting selection.
French
Thanks for the response. I happen to think there are plenty of resources available. Good talent pool, great facilities, great fan base, Virginia's recruits, easier path to the 4 team playoff considering the ACC sucks, and prob some more if I really sat down and thought about it. Just my opinion though.
And last question: Do you think Beamer will ever win us a national championship? or do you feel that expecting VT to win a national championship is expecting too much?
Marsellus Wallace to Frank Beamer
"Right now you got ability. But painful as it may be, ability don't last. And your days are just about over. Now that's a hard fact of life. But that's a fact of life your ass is going to have to get realistic about. See this business is filled to the brim with unrealistic coaches. Coaches who thought their ass would age like wine. If you mean it turns to vinegar: it does. If you mean it gets better with age: it don't. Besides Frank, how many seasons you think you got in you anyway? Hmm? Two? Coaches don't have an old timers league. You came close, but you never made it. And if you were gonna make it, you would have made it before now."
Paraphrased and adjusted (and censored) of course, but this is how I feel.
I think of all people, Bud deserves a shot. I don't know how, or why, he's stuck it out for so long here with such an anchor (or is it albatross?) around our necks in the guise of the offense. Can you imagine his Top 5 defense streak with a top offense? If not him, well, I'm glad I'm not an AD.
I also agree that if Frank is AD, we'll just get more of the same. Loyalty to people instead of the good of the program.
New to the site, but I've been a fan since my freshman year back in 95.
Jim Tressel bring the sweater to blacksburg haha
Jim Tressel at Akron
He is the Vice President of Strategic Engagement there and guess who is the football coach? Terry Bowden.
Wasn't suggesting that Beamer be fired.
When I posted this I wasn't trying to suggest that Beamer be fired. I was simply trying to start a discussion about the future of the program after Beamer. Some have taken more out of this forum than what has been said. To question the future after Beamer is not an act of disrespect or lack of loyality. It's something all Hokies need to think about. I was just wanted to get a feedback from fellow Hokies. I know what my SEC pals think.
Let's put some things in perspective
Is our team looking bad? Yes, are there changes Frank and co. can make to remedy it? Certainly. Are these changes not happening because Frank just doesn't care enough? Absolutely not.
You seem to forget that Frank played for this team, which is more than any of us can say. Frank's livelihood comes from coaching this team, which is, again, more than any of us can say. You think that $250 for season tickets compares to what Frank stands to gain from a successful season? If you think his efforts are lackadaisical then you've really got a few things to learn about being on a team, or coaching one. No one hates losing more than a coach. Not only does Frank have to deal with the loss personally, he has to also put on a strong face for his players, who I'm sure are just as upset about these losses, and I can't even imagine being the ire of Hokie fans right now. Knee jerk reactions are not how we should be handling this.
Now, I get drunk, angry, and react ridiculously at times regarding out player's heart, our coaches as well, but in a calm frame of mind, there's no doubt in my mind that Frank is thinking long-term, and is doing everything he can to fix this. All the while, we sit here for 6 years and bitch about an antiquated offense, yet, when Beamer tries something with some spread looks and the pistol, we freak out when it doesn't work in our first season. If anything, a little patience is what is needed. Frank's staying the course, understanding that changes don't turn into championships overnight. Shoot, we haven't even had a chance to reap the benefits of our new recruits. Every team has seasons like this, yes, EVEN IN THE SEC. Florida, anyone? It happens. Being consistently good year in and year out is near impossible, and sometimes it takes seasons like this to reassess what it takes to win it all.
Now do I believe Frank's loyalty is a hindrance to our offense? Yes. Curt Newsome obviously can't find a line he likes, and our offensive coordinator(s) just seems a bit over his head, but it's also Frank's loyalty that gives us that warm tingly feeling, where we can look at teams like Wisconsin and say "Frank would never do that after 3 games". Of course, it's plain that things aren't working out, and something needs to change, but that's Frank's decision.
Also, I've been told that Frank has no interest in being AD. I personally don't think a guy that can't use email should ever be one. And I also think the next HC should be the result of a national search. Nepitism never works out, and the best option should get the job.
My take on this...
is that, over time, football (especially college football) has a cyclical nature to it. Teams are great for a while, cycle back to being only good, average, maybe even lousy, but can cycle back. Sometimes it is with different coaches, sometimes it is with the same coach. Remember, we beat Bama in the Music City Bowl? They rebounded, as did we. I think we can do it again. Most of the issues that we see are correctable with either talent (new, or improved) or re-direction of coaching effort. The question is, can the current staff make the changes and adapt their side of the equation on offense. I think that we'll see some changes in that regard made by CFB at the end of the season, similar in timing to bringing Shane in. Don't see many changes on the defensive side of the ball, mainly because it's personnel issues there. The older I get, the more long-term my field of vision becomes. I think this gets turned around, with CFB in charge, but it may be a two or three year timeline.
Speed Round
Should Beamer get fired or resign? No
Should he make changes on his coaching staff? Yes
Given the consistency and predictability of VT's coaching and recruiting, is it unrealistic in expecting to win a national championship? Yes
Person to call on the phone and ask for advice? Mike Riley
Is loyalty a double edged sword? Yes
Think about how long it took Meyer, Saban, Carroll, Stoops, Miles, Chizik, Tressel to win their first BCS title at their program? Rather quickly... the exception is Mack Brown, lets hope Beamer pulls a Mack Brown, but realize the odds are against this.
I've always seen Beamer as...
As a lifelong Atlanta Braves and Virginia Tech fan, I've always seen Beamer as the Bobby Cox of college football (or vice versa).
Both pretty much built the team up from nothing (Cox as the GM before he started out as manager while the Braves were awful, Beamer built the program up after some pretty bad years at the start). Both were among the most loyal people in their sport which benefited their teams in a lot of ways (players loved Bobby for the loyalty) but also hurt in ways too (Cox would stick with some players way too long after they stopped performing, Beamer is doing that with coaches).
Both had parts of their teams trademarked for being excellence (for the Braves, pitching, for Tech, Special Teams and D) but had flaws in game management (Cox struggled with bullpen management at times, I've never thought of Beamer as a guy who mastered the when to go for it (be it with a fake or just regular play) when to kick decision).
Both had their signature assistant coach (Cox had Leo Mazzone for a long time, Beamer has Foster).
Both have amassed incredible streaks (Cox with the division title streak and Beamer with the bowl and 10-win streaks) but been continually criticized for coming up short in key moments (Cox with only one world series, Beamer with just 1 win in BCS games).
Yes, this has been a bad season and I don't see it getting better. We very may well lost to Duke this weekend and miss a bowl game for the first time since 1992. And changes certainly need to be made within the program to get us back to a perennial 10 win team. But I'm not ready to say we should fire Beamer. He's earned more than one bad year (yes, I know we haven't won that coveted NC, but I think Beamer has more than met reasonable expectations). If things don't change and this continues... fine, move on from Beamer. But not now.
Bobby Cox knew when it was the right time for him to move on from managing, and until I see otherwise, I'm thinking Beamer will too.
This analogy.
I agree 100%. If anyone has driven I81, been to Lane Stadium, or seen any of the facilities (football or basketball even) post-2000 you can see what CFB has done for the school, the county, and even the state. Everyone wants to say #7 caused the interstate improvements, the south end zone, the press box, and the athletic facilities but I didn't see him with the headset on the sideline coaching the maroon and orange during all of those games...I don't think he wants to destroy all that was built by being to proud to not be able to say enough is enough.
While we all agree building the program to where it is should buy him some time, but I also feel as if the clock started ticking the night of Jan. 3, 2012. As for the next HC I disagree that Bud should get the chance..for such an intelligent football mind there is a reason he hasn't gotten the nod at the programs at which he interviewed, one of which none of us obviously know.
I also disagree that we don't have the ability to get a GREAT coach. We all agree we aren't on the same tier as Bama, UF, USC, OSU and etc..but I do feel like we have established ourselves as a legit top 20 football team. Why couldn't we get a quality coach and not reach for the "James Johnson" model? We have excellent facilities, a great fan base and alumni support, and it's a well liked program overall in the media....what is wrong with us? Am I in denial about something that someone wants to point out?
worst post ever
The first time I heard someone throw out the idea of firing Beamer was last year in Blacksburg after the Clemson game. I couldn't believe I heard the words mumbled from two guys behind me standing in line at the Hokie house. I whispered what I heard to my friends and we all chuckled they must be out of their damn minds...the same way a lot of spoiled fans here are. I cannot believe I'm reading this garbage. This is the first actual bad start to a season we've had since 1997 and people are calling for Frank to go?? We are in the top 5 for most wins since 2000. Thank you Frank. If I go back to 95 I'm pretty sure we're top 5 for 10 or 11 seasons as well. We have totally become spoiled. And Bud Foster can't be a headcoach...didn't anybody watch his rant the other night? You don't say "shit" and "fuck" in an interview....I can't even imagine Bud as a HEAD coach where his emotions would be escalated to an even higher level and his blood pressure would cause objects to be thrown at reporters. That is out of the question. I absolutely love the man but come back to Earth folks. This season may be ruined and we may lose to Duke and then more people will start discussions like this, but as much as a parody this conference is, what if a 3 ACC loss coastal team is enough to get us into Charlotte and we actually play a complete game against Clemson or FS? What if VT plays in a BCS bowl after the worst start in 20 years? What if they win? Beamer has done more with less than anyone and it would take atleast 3 BAD seasons in a row to see his way out. He has consistently turned around bad seasons to great ones where most teams would have given up. Here we are in a hole and fans respond with this crap. It really upsets me. PLAYERS ARE NOT EXECUTING is our main problem right now. You think the coaches forgot what they're doing? I wouldn't want any other coach to develop theses players. I have faith in them. We were due for a down year and this is it. If we have 3 in a row like this, then I understand the discussion about Beamer, but this is insane at this point. How dare you.
The OP wasn't saying we should fire Beamer. It was opening up discussion about the future of the program. I'm not sure if your post was directed at him or a specific comment but either way
Now, to elaborate on your statement:
Our staff is far from perfect. College football is constantly changing and it still remains to be seen if some of our coaching philosophies can adapt.
I am a loyal fan but I am not against change. With that said I haven't seen enough this season to think we need change just YET. Like many though I am keeping an open mind.
but this is insane at this point?
1-19 record vs top 5, insane?
"We've [played] for a national championship, but I think as you go along, to state that you're one of the top programs in the country, you've got to get your share of wins against a top-five team," Beamer said. "I think it's important for this program, at this time, to be able to say we can win a game against a top-five team."
How many more big games do we have to lose (and non-big games this season) to realize enough is enough?
We'll get that chance to begin the 2013 season... I hope that we come through.
So do I, really hope it happens and I'll be there to see it!
I'll shut up about Beamer though, he's my homie, so I'll just echo the thoughts of everyone else and say some kind change is necessary... or we're going to get left behind.
Maybe if we knock off the back-to-back BCS Champ (yes. I think Bama wins it again this year) we'll get some respect?
Top five wins are an extremely overrated metric for a coach or program. That statistic has been tossed around so much without context it is ridiculous. Most teams lose against top-5 teams, because, you guessed it, top-five teams are usually better than their opponent. I don't know it off the top of my head, but his winning percentage top-25 teams is much better. Also, I believe during the 10-win streak there have only been two seasons where we ended ranked lower in the AP poll than where we started.
I haven't lived through the history, but I am aware of our place in it. Beamer inherited a program on probation, cleaned it up, kept it clean, wrestled a fertile 757 away from Penn State, Tennessee, UNC, etc..., turned Lane into a temple, the state of Virginia orange and maroon, made the program relevant, and secured into a conference that has place in college football's next modern (playoff) era.
How many different teams have played for national championship during the BCS era?
LSU (2–1)
Florida (2–0)
Alabama (2-0)
Auburn (1–0)
Tennessee (1–0)
Oklahoma (1–3)
Texas (1–1)
Nebraska (0–1)
Florida State (1–2)
Miami, FL (1–1)
Virginia Tech (0–1)
Ohio State (1–2)
Oregon (0-1)
28 possible slots occupied by just 13 teams, and of those 13, 8 have been multiple times. Those 8, with the exception of maybe Miami, are modern college football's elite. They have more money, more fans, more history, more tradition than Virginia Tech. The Hokies have been a great program for about 18 years, all under Beamer's watch. There's very little other positive history, basically blips on the radar here and there. Those schools go way back and have built upon generations of success and fan support to get where they are now. Virginia Tech is building towards that, but not there yet. Unlike the BCS, winning the conference is totally determined on the field, and Beamer's done that both in the Big East and ACC.
Furthermore, expecting Beamer to make changes is October is insane. He's proven he will make changes, but not act hastily. That's who he is, that's why he is respected. He could still get us to Charlotte and beat UVA which were the only two realistic goals at the start of the season. I'm frustrated over the losses, but panic is still premature, and I've celebrated enough wins to get through a down year.
I respect your opinion, but I think you've made your point.
Joe
So a few things to address..
1) I said "I'll shut up about Beamer, he's my homie..." in a comment above and then a few hours later "I respect your opinion, but I think you've made your point." I said I'd shut up, I don't know why that remark was necessary. Also, I'm not panicking at all, as I've said multiple times, I've felt this way for some time now about our coaching situation but didn't want to harp on it because I know it's a touchy subject. The poster brought it up, so I let all of my feelings be known. I said I'd shut up about it and I have. (Not sure if these comments were directed at me/my post but it seems they were. Sorry if I've interpreted it wrong)
2) I never said I expect Beamer to make changes in October and I never even said that I expect Beamer to be gone. I know that there's realistically no chance that Beamer walks away. All of my comments have been my wishes, what I hope will happen and what I think should happen to move our program forward. I never said, "I hope Beamer resigns this month" or "I hope Stinespring gets fired this week." Maybe that wasn't directed at me, but if it was, I'm unsure why.
3) Top 5 record may be an overrated statistic for those coaches that only have a handful of top 5 matchups. But when you have a larger sample size, ie 20, it matters. 1-19 is terrible and very relevant, no matter how you try to justify it.
And no hard feelings at all. Joe, I love the site and agree with most of your insight, so I don't want you/anybody to view this as a feud or anything similar. I'm just being honest and expressing my opinions.
Frank isn't leaving ...
for years. Trust me.
That doesn't mean other things won't happen, which are at least being considered.
I'll believe it's time for him to go, if we start losing to that other school on a routine basis. I'm not ready to right off Coach Beamer just yet, but wrote off some of his subordinates long ago.
Beamer should stay, he will stay, hes a great coach, but...
he needs to figure something out, shake things up a bit, I don't want him to fade out like Tommy Tuberville or Phillip Fulmer.
My one hope is that if we are making changes (to some staff other than Beamer) that we actually plan it out and do it when the timing is right. None of us know how our b-ball head coach will work out, but I think we could have had a little better candidate pool if we would have timed it better...
....I hope that Beamer and Weaver learned something from that screw up.
think before you speak
Whoever says beamerball is gone isn't watching the games. We have a blocked punt and two return touchdowns. The only fathomable reason to ever get rid of Beamer (a man that we all are forever in debt to) would be to secure Bud Foster as head coach. VT football IS Beamer and Bud and once that changes it just won't be the same.
Mistakes
I've noticed over the years that Beamerball is declining, they make a decent amount of mistakes on special teams, the kick off against North Carolina is just a recent example.
I'm willing to bet a lot of teams have a blocked punt and two return touchdowns so far... that stat just doesn't seem impressive to me, especially with VT's record and opponents played.
Beamerball isn't dead, yet
Beamerball is coming after every kick; even extra points. I remember watching the 2006(?) Miami game in the OB and seeing Miami get an XP blocked and taking it the other way for 2 points. Helped turn the tide in the game and led to a win. Beamerball is also a suffocating and scoring defense. The defense really hasn't been tremendous in a few seasons and scoring is few and far between. Beamerball means booming punters with solid punt coverage and kickers who make 40+ FGs on the regular. Punters have struggled the past few seasons. Beamerball is not getting kicks blocked. Beamerball is not giving up TDs on kickoffs, which happened against UNC.
Is it really time for Frank Beamer to go? No, not even close. Weaver obviously won't get rid of him, and if the BOV were to try to force him out (they won't), you can just sit back and watch the Hokie Club donations screech to a halt.
Look, we're having a bad season. They happen, but one hasn't happened around here in 10+ years.
Frank Beamer has a lot of good coaching left in him, and WHEN (not if) the stars align correctly and we win the national championship, I want Beamer on the sideline.