If You Like Painful Basketball And Dickhead Fans, Root For Virginia
Oh man, this just popped up on Deadspin, and I bout fell out of my chair laughing. The writer, Bill Haisley, has to be a Hokie, I mean he just has to be. Just wait til you get to the part about the UVa fans themselves. Honestly, I don't know where to even begin quoting this thing, because the whole segment is quote worthy. But I'll leave this here....
They aren't Andrew Jackson Southerners; they are the sons and daughters of Thomas Jefferson. They wouldn't be caught dead uttering any of that old racism, but do enjoy showing up to parties in their finest antebellum clothing while sipping an even finer mint julep, happy to look down on other unsophisticated collegians with their beer and poorly mixed cocktails.
Everyone knows this kind of person, and this kind of person sucks. Now imagine the complex on that person after they didn't get into Duke.
There is much, much more in the article itself.... Well worth a Friday afternoon read before you leave for the weekend.
Comments
It's just so beautiful.
UVa alums are probably going to be offended that Penn State is considered "a public ivy" and agree with the rest of the article...in their minds, if you don't appreciate UVa basketball, then you're an unintelligent neanderthal who can't appreciate how James Naismith wants the game to be played.
Its funny you say that, because one of the first comments on the article is as follows:
" Anything that brings these people happiness should be avoided on principal". Truer words were never spoken !
This seems like a good thread to ask. Does anyone have that GIF of that UVA girl trying to get a "Lets go" chant going at a basketball game and everyone ignores her?
This one?
Perfect
"Mom, this is a revenue sport, not polo. You're embarrassing me!"
this gif is fan tastic
What a great response to your quote...
Didn't know where to put this but I'll put it here. After next year UVA loses the majority of their team. Anderson, Nolte, Brogdon, Tobey, and Gill will all be gone. And their current recruiting class isn't so hot either. Just one three star power forward. They have solid 2016 class, but they will just be freshman. Meanwhile in Blacksburg, in two years our key players should start to break out as many of our underclassmen right now will become upperclassmen. I don't know about you guys, but I get a feeling the tides should start to turn substantially in two years.
To their credit, they've never really gotten star recruits in the past few years and they figured out a way to be really competitive
I dont wanna sound like their football fans too much. A good coach is the key, and I believe both programs have that. We may not turn the tides on them totally but it would be nice to make a good basketball rivalry with them.
I agree with Mysterious Rhinestone, but this seems so apt:
Well, to be honest, it would be tough for the tides to get any farther apart than one team winning the ACC and the other in the basement. (16-2 conference record vs. 2-16 conference record).
So, it HAS to get better than that, right?
Am I the only person that actually loves this style of basketball? Watching strong team defense makes me really happy, and while the offense is obviously ugly, it's a lot better than watching one team's best player try to take people on one on one over and over again.
It's basically the Spurs on training wheels, but the Spurs have been the only consistently watchable basketball team for over a decade, so I'll take it.
The rest of the diatribe is great though.
The Spurs are watchable because they have legitimate super stars like Duncan. Can't stand the Hoos because they slow everything down to a crawl preventing any kind of offense to be played because they know they can't hang offensively with anyone. The fact they are as good as they are is a prime example of what's wrong with the collegiate game nowadays.
Grantland ran a great article on this very thing earlier today.
First of all, Duncan hasn't been a super star for 5 years. Secondly, UVA has the 23rd ranked adjusted offense, not exactly slouches.
They play great team defense, look for the best shot and don't have a one and done superstar. I love hating UVA, but saying theyre whats wrong with college basketball is silly. I don't remember anyone hating on Butler when they went to the title (number 5 defense, number 290 tempo)
And not too mention of the greatest offensive basketball minds of all time in Pop.
The Spurs are fun to watch because they play as a team instead of a complete isolation offense, unlike many of the other NBA teams at the top of divisions. The Spurs are also fun to watch on offense because almost every guard on that team can bust 3s for days. Not to mention, Tony Parker has been an elite PG for 5+ years whereas the article states that usually the ball handler for UVA is never great at anything offensively and rather just a distributor. There's obviously nothing wrong with playing great defense, but when your defense is such an emphasis like UVa's is, it usually takes away how productive your offense is. The Spurs' offense is as good if not better than their defense, unlike UVa. Kentucky plays great defense, but their offense isn't painful to watch every time they step on the court. UVa deserves credit for making it work so far this year, but I seriously doubt you can win a championship playing their style of basketball.
UVA has the 23rd adj offense. Thats painful?
Yes, I find it painful.
That must be unfortunate for the other 328 teams as well
I've never cared much for Duke basketball, but the reason why so many people hopped on that bandwagon is because they play a fun style of basketball. Makes it dreadful for the opponent because they know at any time, any number of their guards can light it up from downtown, while still playing as a team. I'm sorry, but when only one of your regular starters averages double digit figures in PPG (as is the case w/ UVa), I find that type of basketball painful to watch. I will say that Bennett is a heck of a coach for making that work with the limited talent he has, but it still doesn't take away how much I dislike watching them play.
They have 3 starters averaging double digits. Anderson has only been limited by injury
No adjustment can make that offense interesting to watch.
not saying it is, but watch the nba if you only care about scoring
"watch the nba all star game if you only care about scoring."
FTFY
"watch the nba all star game if you only care about dunking"
FTFY
Bad offense is not good defense.
If you want to see defense, watch the NBA playoffs. The biggest misconception about the NBA is they don't play defense.
I couldn't agree more. Well said
I hate when people say "The NBA doesn't play defense." It's a different game.
THIS. My buddy, who was a really highly rated AAU player but was woefully undersized and had injury issues, played in Ben Wallace's summer league in RVA. He said that Ben Wallace, one of the NBA's worst FT% ever, could jack threes all day while wide open. Basically these guys can all shoot lights out, and the only reason they ever miss is the great defense they see all the time.
So what defense are teams running during Free Throws?
Shooting in warm-ups at John Marshall and shooting free throws during an NBA game aren't the same. I'm just saying that under easy conditions, he can knock down shots. Free throws after running up and down the court and playing center in the NBA isn't easy conditions.
What is it with this "adjusted offense"? Is that a fancy way of saying "points per hour?"
I don't watch a ton of college ball any more, not even the Hokies. But I can see their scores on a ticker, like anyone else. I don't need some Moneyball for Hoops stat to tell me that 51-42 games suck. Regardless of who (hoo?) wins.
It measures offenses on points per 40 possessions by taking tempo of both the team and the team's opponents into account. It's a way of comparing apples to apples since pace influences how many points a team scores. College basketball has slowed down over the last decade or so which is a big reason why scoring is down.
The Spurs also have 11 seconds less to shoot ball. If UVA (rest of college too) played with a 24 second shot clock, their offense would be easier to watch (they'd have to to adjust to remain competitive). But this is part of a larger issue.
Very true, but I still think it would be boring to watch. The Spurs just have different players than UVA. Three of those guys are future Hall of Famers, and the future still looks very bright for Kawhi Leonard. Brogdon will get a shot at the next level, but he's just as good as Joe Harris was and he rides pine for Cleveland. No one else on that team has a future in the NBA
UVa is NOT the Spurs on training wheels...or Spurs anything. There is virtually no similarity in offensive schemes and the defensive schemes of UVa and the Spurs. Just because both play what you call "team" defense, it doesn't make them similar; there are many ways to play "team" defense (WVU plays team defense too, but it is nothing like UVa and, IMO, is far more interesting to watch).
The pack line defense is built largely around the notion that most college teams/players can only do one or maybe two things well offensively. That's why it's less effective as part of an overall strategy when playing the few teams that are athletic and capable of being multi-dimensional offensively or multi-dimensional offensively with some athleticism. And it would get destroyed in the NBA for the same reason teams rarely press in the NBA...the players/teams are too skilled offensively for it to work with enough consistency to be a winning strategy.
I like defense too, but to me, the pack line defense is sorta to college basketball what the neutral zone trap was to NHL hockey in the late 90's-early 2000's. It can be quite effective, but it just makes games ugly and uncompelling to watch.
Yep, agreed with all points. I'll even say UVa has success because they sell out defensively on the belief that collegiate players cannot shoot the ball, so if they crowd it down below, taking away the short game, teams will struggle. When they get into issues (and really probably one of the bigger reasons this kind of team will do well in the regular season, but fail when you get to the tournament) is when you run into a team that can shoot. And this issue compounds itself when UVa's own offense is the epitome of the offense they are trying to stop. So when they run into someone that can shoot, they have to have an offense that answers the bell, which is something they struggle to do.
In a weird way, its no surprise that they had success against a majority of the ACC, which is built on feeding the ball low and letting the big bodies rack up points, but struggle against teams like VT, who have no big bodies, but have multiple guys who can hit a jumper.
I mostly meant on a higher level, there is a shared sentiment that both teams have had the stigma that they are no fun to watch. Obviously what the Spurs do is on a completely other level, and that's what I meant by the training wheels comment. Last years championship series is the finest basketball I've ever witnessed, and if I ran ESPN I'd be showing highlights of that team for decades instead of Kobe/Jordan/etc. UVA's is absolutely not in the same league (literally).
Which is kind of what I'm getting at, even if UVA is mostly just exploiting the relative lack of talent in college basketball, I prefer that to watching a team like Kentucky win simply because every player on their team is better than every other player. Seeing 6 footers get their shots blocked by 7 footers while that same team puts on a dunk clinic isn't fun to watch to me. Calipari practically admitted that his team didn't need to do much at halftime, they asked him how he would adjust to Cincinatti and his response was "they have to shoot over 7 footers", so much for strategy or any kind of intrigue, the response was 'we're superior athletes so we will win'.
Even if one were to prefer watching UVa to, say, Kentucky, it still doesn't make watching UVa's style of play interesting (unless you're a UVa fan), IMO.
I only watch uva to see them lose. Style of play isn't as important to me as that loss. They do make the other team much less interesting, though, so to me it makes for a tough watch when they win. It's been fun watching them lose lately.
I feel like I've been doing far too much UVA defending here, so I'm giving you a leg to make up for it.
Dear UVA,
The problem UVA is about to have is they are playing on of the most overcoached teams in college ball next in Michigan St. I like Izzo, but he is coaching every. single. possession. This leads to a team that is a lot like UVA stylistically, and perhaps better than UVA is at that style.
MSU plays like an NBA team compared to UVa.
They got an email rebuttal!
http://deadspin.com/a-virginia-fan-and-leet-haxor-wrote-us-a-nice-letter...
Oh that's just glorious....
With his private email address including his actual name and place of study, he outs himself as a hacker and a member of 'anon', which kind of defeats the purpose of being in Anonymous.
Am I surprised an actual UVa alum did something that stupid? Nope
Public Ivey? Why do people keep perpetuating this nonsense like it's an actual thing?
I agree. The "Public Ivy" argument is one of the dumbest viewpoints going. In this day in age, each type of college/university offers different educations, programs, amenities, etc., each with their pluses and minuses. Whether people chose liberal arts schools, engineering-focused schools, or state schools that offer a multitude of opportunities, they should be embraced in-full. When you boil it down to it's simplest terms, the Ivy League is an athletic conference. Sure, it has a widely accepted connotation of academic excellence (and you could argue elitism). To top it off, many of the Ivy's are actually more known, professionally, for their Graduate programs than they are for their undergraduate programs. Can't you just be a really good public school that offers things that the Ivy's can't? People who continue to make these arguments need to get over themselves...
At the risk of downvotes
I couldn't help but think strong defense that keeps scoring to a minimum but just enough offense that is usually enough, but not highly ranked in points scored sounds a bit like VT's football strategy.
shhhhhh
And to that point I'll just say there's a reason we cleaned house on the offensive side of the coaching staff a couple years ago...
Playing balls out defense with no regard to offense is a recipe that rarely ends up good long term. You need a healthy balance of both for long term sustained success. Football wise, I shudder to think what we would have been without Tyrod. I'd suspect a similar stagnation for UVa basketball relatively soon if they cannot develop a legitimate offensive game.
But are we ruining college football because we aren't fun to watch?
Sometimes.
Other times we have superman leaping tall O-Lines in a single bound.
No because good defense in football is fun to watch. Exhibit A:
Unless you have a "Patrick Ewing while at Georgetown" center or a VCU-like defense that's high energy or creates a lot of turnovers, solid fundamental defense is boring to watch in basketball.
Theres a difference between fun to watch and ruining the sport. The spurs have widely been regarded as the most boring team in the nba for a decade but no one blames them for all of basketball
Ok anyone who says they're ruining the sport does need to take a step back. I agree with you there for sure. Just because it's boring to watch doesn't mean it's bad for the sport. Guys leaving after 1 year is bad for the sport, but not sound defense above all else. But no one on here actually thinks UVA basketball is terrible for the sport, do they?
I don't think UVa basketball is terrible for the sport. I think the fact they are having the success they are having simply shows how poor and generally underwhelming the collegiate game has become.
Wake Forest?
When Andy Bitter opens the post game article with "The Hokies mustered next to nothing in a game that set offensive football back decades" we really don't have room to talk....
Saying we're ruining the sport because of one game is about the same as saying we're the national champions because we beat Ohio State. They're both silly.
My "MISSION: ACCOMPLISHED" t shirt begs to differ /s
When college basketball starts moving the goal [posts] closer together for overtime so everyone has an equal chance to score, then I'll admit we have a problem.
In basketball, good defense doesn't include Kyshoen Jarrett separating people from their souls, or Dadi terrifying QBs or Fullers doing magical things not thought physically possible in this universe.
Not going to argue the offense side of it, though. But unleashing a Logandozer on 3rd down was always fun to watch.
I often wondered what fueled their elitist attitude
I'll start paying attention to LOLUVA basketball when we start consistently beating them. I don't give Hoos the satisfaction of acknowledging their happiness.
Wow, classic Deadspin amateur hour article. They play great defense, are deliberate on offense and have snobby fans. #analysisdeadspinstyle
Regardless of the merits of the article, if you havent seen the response it drew, you need to read this: http://deadspin.com/a-virginia-fan-and-leet-haxor-wrote-us-a-nice-letter...
Kudos to deadspin for publishing that douchenozzle's email address. Wonder how many newsletters and special offer emails he's been signed up for already.
I was just totally in awe of the erudite writing style of that hoo alum...
Truthfully, most hoos I know are pretty chill. That one right there, clearly is not.
Love it!
uva spring game
Or the fourth quarter of any regular season game...
nah, the opposing fans are usually still there...
Probably right, no team on the field. Maybe I just figured the visitors were probably stuck up in one of the corners you don't see in the pic, or heading out to beat the traffic...oh, yeah, I guess you're right.
No people in the stands, no football team on the field...gotta be the spring game.
seemed a fitting mod:
It does look like there are three fans. One in a white hat (bottom left), one taking a sad selfie (bottom right) and one smart one with a bag over their head (middle).