Went onto Beamer's Website and saw the following:
A couple of key position changes following Virginia Tech's first scrimmage of the spring. Joel Caleb is moving from running back to wide receiver. Also, true freshman, Yosuah Nijman, switches from defensive end, to offensive tackle. Now that the staff has met with the players, we'll gather each coach's comments on the first scrimmage and pass those along shortly. Thank you for your continued support!
So Nijman moves to OT, making DE seem only thinner and Trevon Hill's injury that much more devastating. And as French pointed out, Caleb officially moved to WR which was looking thin. He pretty much had his chance at RB last year, and probably has a better chance at seeing the field as a WR than as a RB with Mcmillian and Reid upcoming.
Thoughts?
Comments
I didn't think they'd pull the plug on Nijman as a DE so soon.
Honestly and maybe I'm in the minority here, that concerns me. He seemed REALLY intent on playing on the defensive side of the ball.
"I do want to play defensive end, really bad," he said. "My coach in high school always had me there and he thinks I can really be good there. I feel like playing that position for me is challenging, but I feel like I'm up for the challenge. There's so much to learn there, but I'm willing to learn it."
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/columns_and_blogs/blogs/andy_bitter_virgin...
Wyatt Teller initially wanted to player defensive line too...at the end of the day, players just want to play at the position that gives them the best chance to go the NFL....If you asked every player what position they really wanted to play, I'd bet 25% of them would say QB.
Yeah...
If I were on the team, and Coach Beamer asked me what position I wanted to play, I would say...
Early Round Draft Pick.
"If I were on the team, and Coach Beamer asked me what position I wanted to play, I would say..."
Uh....Tight End??
Uh....Tight EndQB, fixed it for you
seriously... whaaaat
Pretty upsetting to see
They should move Burke to DE
Well, hell. Dooley must truly be coming along.
I hope that is the case more than Nijman was not coming along. Missing on Sweat is getting more painful as he would have filled the very big hole in the depth chart.
It's likely Sweat won't see the field this year. His injury was pretty bad.
Nijman to OL makes all the sense in the world but will fuel the negative recruiting narrative that we move players after recruiting them.
everybody does the same thing
every team moves people. not sure every team moves guys with true DE size that are on record stating they want to play there out of that position as frequently as we do though.
I'll bet that VT is not an outlier in this regard.
1) True DE size isn't nearly as big as most people think. What most people think is average DE is really the end of the bell curve. The Avg NFL DE is only 6'3" 255lb. But very, very athletic.
2) DE really requires a somewhat unique combination of good size and great athleticism. There are lots of guys with good (or better) size and lots of guys with great athleticism, but not many with both. My guess is that DE is the position that more players have delusions about playing than any other and get moved from more than any other.
3) It's a somewhat unusual position where if you don't the combination of at least good size and/or the requisite athleticism, you can move up (OL, DT) or down (OLB) to virtually any non-skill position or even laterally (TE) and still be successful.
I'm going to call bs on the average nfl DE being 255.
series of tubes
http://imgur.com/FBFKSdB
http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/02/08/how-big-are-college-football-players-defense.htm
http://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1oh47i/height_and_weight_of_all_active_nfl_players_by/
http://www.sprayberryfootball.com/page/show/292837-nfl-player-specs
Counterpoint: This link from 2014 lists the average NFL DE weight as 281lbs:
http://www.besttickets.com/blog/nfl-player-census-2014/
I find it funny that the average weight of punters is > the average weight of safeties, CBs, or WRs.
I wasn't really taking a side, just posting some of the info that's out there. Thought it was neat someone had actually scraped the data.
DE's may be trending bigger (taller, heavier) and faster though.
I wasn't trying to take a side either. That was just one of the first links that popped up when I searched "average height and weight NFL".
I would say average NFL DE weight trends up or down depending on how many teams run 4-3 versus 3-4 schemes. If you get three teams switching to a 3-4 the average probably jumps up significantly.
I also think that looking at average NFL DE weight can be misleading, since college football is littered with players that would be considered "tweeners" by NFL scouts.
I keep looking at the link I posted and I see that Arizona is the tallest NFL team. I would call that the "Logan Effect".
Takes at least a 4,000 calorie/day diet to fuel #punterswag.
The average kicker weight is severely skewed by Janikowski.
Alonzo Tweedy mention in the article:
5'11" 210 lbs.....
Considering that sprayberry site says the average OT is 300 lbs I'm going to say that's a terrible dataset. That's very much on the low end
And you would probably be correct. Poor writing...was doing 3 things at once and I'm barely capable of one. I should have said the prototypical size by NFL scouts for DE draftees. They get do bigger as pros.
For what it's worth 3 of the 6 DEs selected this past year were about 6'4" 260-ish (R.Quinn, Cameron Wake, D. Ware. The other three were complete monsters (Calais Campbell, JJ Watt, Mario Williams).
I would also think that there is noticeable size difference between 3-4 DEs (larger) and 4-3 DEs (smaller). I wonder how that breaks down.
*insert eye rolling gif *
and another DE with size gets moved.
if this is real, I don't like this move at all. At all.
You can be the biggest guy in the world, if he doesn't have the quickness and speed it's not going to matter. That's the issue here.
this would be reasonable if we didn't move every DE with size, but we have at least recently. and though i love the guy, Gayle was not exactly a burner. we have had "slower" yet effective DEs
Unless Nijman is totally on board and sees a future for himself, i hate moving players so much. and i fear it's not because he's not going to be good at DE, it's because VT has failed miserably at recruiting and they're desperate. and if he had a lot of learning to do before, then i imagine moving to the opposite side of the ball and having to learn protections and technique is just going to be a bitch. So he's wasted 3+ months trying to learn DE and now starts from scratch, and he has to gain 40 pounds.
He has played O-line prior.
Coach Foster and Coach Wiles don't care about size in a D-End. In their scheme, the end HAS to be a quick twitch speed guy. Gayle was pretty fast coming around the end. We don't want our ends spending every play going WWF with a tackle. We want them to be in the backfield before the tackle has a chance to get set.
Nijman must be showing them something for the offense, and not showing them what they want for D-End.
It may seem weird or even wrong, but always for me it's "In Bud I Trust."
So should every guy who is 6'4 230+lb play free safety since Kam Chancellor could do so in college at that size?
Guys like Chancellor are physical freaks -- both in size and athletic ability. But only a very tiny percentage of college athletes who are that size (or even close to it) are going to be able to play free safety. The same goes for 6'6" 280lb guys with the skills to play DE...they exist, but they are a very rare breed.
FWIW, Gayle may not have been a burner speed wise but had enough of a combination of size and burst to play DE at the college level and play it well.
Can you name a single guy who played for (or is currently at) VT who was moved from DE that you think would have flourished in another system? I can't.
I am not seeing the analogy with Teller that a lot of throwing out. He is probably going to be all ACC this year on O-Line.
I agree, Bud's quotes on him seemed really positive. I was excited about him playing end. Also brings into question (given question) at tackle depth. Let's hope he is a Teller 2.0
"DE with size" is the understatement of the century
He's a great looking athlete, but he might be two years away from contributing anywhere. He hasn't played much football.
Is Beamer's website aware that it's not April Fools anymore?
All I can take from the Nijman news is that OT must be a sh*t show. He was getting steady praise from the D staff.
Left tackle is. The two RTs were not horrible Saturday. McLAughlin is it on the left side.
All the comments were pretty basic, just stating the obvious.he is a big athletic kid who can move
The thing that was emphasized was how raw he was. I think the staff knew tackle was his position the whole time. The scrimmage and film review just validated what most already knew. They gave him a shot because it was his preference. He still will need time to develop no matter the position. I dont think he was an immediate impact guy no matter the position. Hopefully I'm wrong. Could use depth at either spot. Best wishes big guy you got plenty of time to become dominant.
I personally take all public praise from coaches with a grain of salt. Not that some of it isn't legit, but a lot of it isn't and one really has to read between the lines to even try to decipher it.
My read of the tea leaves of comments about Nijman were not ones of "steady praise".
Hey, Nijman had his chance...
What the hell?
Okay that gif had me laughing at work.
Love this gif every time I see it. Nice touch.
If Bud is okay with this, then im okay with this
Nijman's quickness looked good in drills, but he got picked on in the scrimmage. McMillian's two runs and Motley's TD went right at him, and he lost Wright in the flat on a zone blitz.
That being said, he had a chance at DE. The need at left tackle is even more glaring. I didn't see much of Clark, but what little I saw didn't indicate that he was quick enough to play the left side. Hansen, Conte, and Osterloh are all right tackles. Redman just isn't a viable guy if McLAUGHLIN goes down. This may be his best chance to play. Depth may be dire at DE, but not so dire that they are one rolled ankle away from having nobody who can play the position.
I understand the move completely. But there is still a lingering feeling that this is going to hurt us. I knows it's all been touched on but the irrational thinking that this has bombed recruiting still lingers.
If he becomes a star and goes to the NFL, it's a great move. He has the measurables to do it. If he doesn't, he probably will wash out and be forgotten. I doubt that other recruiters are bringing up Nick Dew in recruiting meetings. Ultimately, good players find a way to play.
I like the kid. I have been standing here ready to say "told you so" regarding his future at DL for weeks. However, he got after it in the scrimmage. I was kind of bummed about the move, but if he can be a star left tackle, the Hokies will be better for it. If he is moving just to give them another body on OL, then it is too soon.
Like I said I agree with the move. I just wish he would have been given more of a shot at DE. Just another reason why I'm not a coach.
While it would've been nice to give him a little longer. If the coaches really think this is good long term position I'm glad they did it. This gives him half a spring and summer that he wouldn't have had if they let this experiment go out the rest if spring.
So next year Nijman could be competing for playing time and will know the basics. Instead of being a deer in headlights like he'd be this spring regardless.
The same argument could be made for staying at DE ( gaining experience), but if coaches think this is his best position then I'm glad they did it now.
Agreed
Agreed. He's going to be incredibly raw on either side, just hope this is the correct move. And as we all know moves are not always bad. I'll trust the coaches. Plus I would imagine the kids have some say in this. I would hope it's more so the coaches strongly encouraging the switch. Kind of saying "if you reallyyyy want to stay you can, but here's the reasons you should move."
everything you say is reasonable. i get it, but i do not agree.
Nijman is essentially atoning for the sins of the OL past. That shit show is not his fault but he has to do the solid thing here and help try to fix it. i give him and teller the highest of fives for being a team first player and making the move. and as you were right with Teller it can be a good move.
but I don't think Nijman had his chance at DE at all. He just got on campus and just started practice. Foster's scheme is complicated. takes time to learn and understand. If the move came after a year and he just couldn't catch it I would understand. 2 weeks, not so much.
Like you said, it's reasonable to see both sides of this. But I think a fair chance is a little longer than 6 practices. Especially when making the jump to college usually the mind will slow up the feet a little bit. You can't expect someone to be taking in so much information and be doing things correctly, and quickly in 6 practices. You just can't.
He looked quicker than I gave him credit for in my initial review when I watched him in the scrimmage. But, he just isn't a Bud Foster DE. I hate it for him to. I just hope that the move pays off and sets him on a path to a great career like it did for Teller.
yeah, I understand and agree. just wish that the only DEs that are Bud Foster DEs weren't the size of an OLB.
I think he's done alright using smaller guys at DE for the last couple decades. Besides, we had nice big DEs in 2012... and we all know what happened there. I'm not super stoked about it just from a depth standpoint, but if Bud wasn't sold on him at DE, and with the ridiculous depth we have at DT, I'm 100% all for him being an OT. As French said, we're one rolled ankle away from having zero players who can play the LT position. That's just as concerning as our DE depth issues.
If the move came a year later it'd be too late. He'd be another freak athlete without a position in college ball. It's not enough for coaches to give someone a chance then move them around, they have to predict that change and be proactive or they risk wasting years of development time.
Do we not have one single guard who could play tackle in a pinch?
We have a DIII transfer who played DT 8 months ago starting at RT. If one of the guards couldn't play tackle over him (I would definitely call that a pinch), I'm not sure we'd want that now. Besides, what about when Hansen graduates next year, or McGlock the year after? We need quality tackles, and Nijman has the body and athleticism to be that and then some.
This is very interesting news...I hope Nijman takes the move in stride. I assume he was given his chance, after he saw the speed of the players at this level he may have realized that OL is the best spot for him. This dude can bulk up and be the prototypical 1st or 2nd round pick. Also I believe he was recruited by our offensive coaches.
Love the Nijman move. He will thank the coaches one day when he's in the NFL.
I think Nijman moving is indicative of the coaches confidence in Dooley. Nijman was going to be a project regardless of where he'd end up. Hopefully seeing Teller succeed will make this easier for Nijman to accept the position change. He could be our first top level LT since Duane Brown in a couple years.
And while DE depth looks bad, if Dooley really takes a big step forward and Keihn can resemble Dadi from 2013, then we should be alright. Plus we can slide Marshall out to DE in certain situations and put in Nigel at DT for him.
Dooley was always going to the third DE. He could be terrible and the coaches would say the light is coming on. They have no other options. They need a forth, fifth and sixth guy.
To be fair to Dooley, he had a very good scrimmage on Saturday. He was strong at the point of attack and disruptive on the back side. Don't sleep on him. (And I have never been very high on Dooley.)
Wow, what a bummer. I really wanted to Nijman to stay at DE. He obviously wouldn't be ready to play DE this fall, but so what...he could be ready to contribute next year after Dadi leaves. I guarantee you he won't be ready to play OT this fall either, so this looks like such a drastic move. This is what happens when you don't recruit enough OLmen and not enough true OTs. We should sign 3 OL minimum every year, and 4 some years. And with 2 more OTs coming this fall (3 total frosh OTs), Nijman will probably fall behind those guys anyway since he hasn't played OT. I thought he had a shot to stay at DE based on Bud's previous comments that he was excited about Nijman at DE. I don't get it. I don't see the benefit for him taking one for the team right now since he won't play this fall anyway, and certainly not with 2 more OTs coming this fall. They should just move Conte to OT and let one of the 20 OGs backing up Conte start at OG or move Alston over to the other side.
I feel ya. We seem fairly deep at OL. Hopefully we can stay afloat with the depth at DE.
I've watched a couple practices, and I can say that the term "quality depth" does not often come to mind. Nijman is every bit as needed on the OL as he is at DE.
We have decent depth on the interior OL, the tackle spot is a known concern
[Insert Curt Newsome + torches 'n pitchforks comment here].
We done gone effed up the OL and even some of the tackles we have coming in are going to be projects. In OL recruiting, it's all about numbers. Throw 18 guys at 5 positions and see who sticks. The current situation is even more nightmarish than DE, and if Nijman can make what we all knew would be a painful OL rebuilding process go just a little bit quicker, I'm all for it.
Yosh looks to me like a Bruce Campbell right now. I hope he thrives at his new spot, although I would have loved to have been able to see him throwing those arms into passing lanes.
I don't see the similarities.
You mean this:
Doesn't look like this?????
I like the Caleb back to WR move. The way McMillian and Reid looked in the scrimmage and the rest of the RB corps we have I think Caleb could really help on the WR blocking issues and he could play the slot role since he has the size to go over the middle. Loeffler has the playbook to use Caleb in the short passing game where he fits best, get him the ball in space and let him run.
We knew that Yosh was going to be a project at DE and was questionable if he has the quickness and bend to play there. It is a bummer because he had great size but we need more that size at that position. If he can be a solid OT for us, then that will be more valuable to the team and likely give him a better shot at the NFL.
I will be interested to see if Burke gets a look at DE just for depth purposes.
So defense loses some depth and offense gains some. That's pretty much what I would want for the better of the team.
If these guys come to VT to be part of the defensive tradition and can't make the two-deep, but could help out a traditionally under preforming offense, then have them move. For example, Watt Teller.
Tech has a ton of def tackles, leave fullwood at end, get gaines ready and look at edmunds and cunningham when they get to school.
This is nothing but good news. The ONLY reason this is being treated as anything more than a dog bites man story is that he said he wanted to be a DE.
IMO, he was never going to be a DE and the coaches at VT (and elsewhere) knew it. To say this somehow weakens DE depth or say something about how the coaches feel about other players is nothing more than academic.
As I said weeks ago, I just hope if this experiment isn't working, it gets ended earlier rather than later. Thankfully the coaching staff saw things this way as well and were either able to convice Nijman of this or Nijman saw it himself.
He may or not live up to it, but I think the potential is there for Nijman to be a great OT. I don't believe that was the case at DE.
Can we blame this on Jim Weaver?