As happy as I am with the win, I still think there is an obvious personnel change that still needs to be made at punt returner. Greg Stroman has just been terrible all season, absolutely no instinct. Getting really tired of seeing the dangerous decisions and negative yards on returns.
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I agree, I guess my only question is if not Stroman then who? He's the fastest guy in the team so if he'd just learn to go FORWARD he'd be OK.
I thought McMillian looked really good in the few reps he saw back there during the spring. Terrell Edmunds might be another name to consider.
After seeing what he can do as a featured back last night, I don't want him anywhere near a punt return
I read somewhere that the secondary is high on Der'Woun Greene. I think he got a kick return a week ago and did better than a touchback. I'd go with him because, as OP said, Stroman does seem to go East, West, and South a lot but not a whole lotta North.
Someone needs to train him how to properly retrieve. Run into it to keep forward momentum, not run backwards. Its glaringly horrible.
I agree. I think he needs to start 5-10 yards further back and he will have a little momentum when he fields the ball.
Makes me miss the days of Eddie Royal and Jayron Hosely returning punts.
And DeAngelo Hall. His 2 in one game will forever be in my memory banks.
I'm indifferent. Punt returners have to be fearless, otherwise they'll always be a step late. I feel like a few of these negative punt returns he's one missed tackle from taking it to the house. He's not afraid to take risks to make a big play. Just dont like muff the punt and he'll be fine i believe.
I agree with this. As long as he isn't muffing punts, the risk taker who is a threat to go all the way is who I want back there. Every great punt returner went negative sometimes trying to make something happen. If you're the type of athlete to take it to the house, and you believe every time you touch the ball you can take it to the house, you probably will eventually.
My buddy and I were discussing this in the stands when he got brought down at the 4. He makes questionable decisions at best back there. But is there a more stressful situation than being the punt return man? There's a lot going on and it takes someone with a real knack for it in order to be successful. I would think that surely there is someone on this roster who fits the bill, but I don't think that guy is Stroman.
I havent been impressed with him back there either, but from what I can remember most of their punts last night were from about midfield. It would've been difficult to make any return on some of them.
I think Stroman's main issue is that when he is in the moment, he is making decisions based on high school level outcomes. I have no doubt that the return that ended (thankfully not any worse) at the 4-yard line would have been a 15+ yard return for him 2-3 years ago.
Remember, he's 18-20 years old and invincible like all of us were at one time.
At the same time, it would benefit my blood pressure immensely if we had a guy that caught the ball and just ran forward until his legs became too entangled in trucked bodies to keep moving.
It's pretty sad when his best return is a fair catch...
When talking about punt returns we have to consider the situation. It is going to be hard for any returner to have success while the other team is sending so many gunners and we are going for the block. It is a bit different from the Eddie Royal days when he only had to make one guy miss. Stroman regularly needs to make two guys miss. He can definitely improve but I am still confident he is the guy for the job. He hasn't fumbled a punt this year yet I don't think which is big considering all the rain.
He's a good punt returner, but he needs to make better decisions about fielding the ball. A coach needs to coach him to put his heels on the 10 yard line and let it go over his head.
I blame this too, on Shane. When he was hired, the talk was he would recruit, coach RBs with some tutelage from Hite, and help Frank with special teams (he coached them for 2 years at SC)...seems like ALL his areas of "expertise" and "contribution" suck.
That's just ridiculous
I think Shane deserves a break on these boards.
Coaches get a "break" when their area of responsibility looks good.
It's just the way it works. Who else are you going to blame? The student-athlete? If they aren't performing, it's the coach's job to change their behavior or put someone else in.
Blaming him for punt returns though, come on man.
What area of special teams does Shane coach? I know Frank is THE special teams coach, but the actual unit duties are divvied up amongst the coaching staff. I have no idea who coaches punt returns. It might very well be Shane, but could just as easily be someone else. Having your running backs coach be in charge of punt returns probably isn't an unheard of concept.
IIRC Shane works on kickoff coverage. Can't quote a source for that, but I feel certain I've read it. Not sure if he has anything to do with punts at all. Frank works with AJ and punt protection, I think Wiles is on the punt blocking squad but not sure if he works with return men.
I thought Frank coached punt block. Wasn't sure if the same coach had block and return duties.
Either way, whoever is coaching returns isn't doing at least one aspect of their job.
For the sake of argument, lets say that Shane has been clamoring for a single feature back all season but Loeffler has over-ruled him and Frank finally stepped in this week to make sure Loeffler let Shane do what he wants to do with the running backs.
In that case, Loeffler deserves a break this week, right?
The poster was blaming punts on Shane, so you lost me here with reference to lefty.
okay..I was too lazy to look at the context...yeah blaming the punt returns on Shane is misguided...I'll agree with you there
Seems to me he could be coached up.
His athleticism is good, but some of his "ground rules" need to be addressed.
The problem is we've been saying that for some time now. Either he is receiving poor coaching or he isn't catching on.
We don't need another punt returner.
We need another Wayne Ward to block for whoever is back there.
I don't disagree about change, but like many, think there is more to the story.
1) he has great hands. Incredibly important aspect
2) he has speed, with mild elusiveness, really yet to be displayed
3) due to a lack of depth we have Greg Jones, Michael Brainard, and Trent Young blocking/fighting off 4/5 gunners. There hasn't been a whole lot of room
4) fair catches are ok
5) so is letting it go over your head inside the five (ten?)
6) finally, forward momentum is paramount. Not many can one-step full speed like Eddie Royal did.
I wish we'd just use him as a receiver. Like a real one. No jet sweeps. No punt returns. Just dedicate that man to being the best receiver he can be.
Yeah but he's got hands like a magnet and guts like, um lotsa guts.
I can't think of anyone else I trust catching the slippery ball in the rain.
You don't want to suppress aggressiveness in a guy like him, he's got to learn when and where.
I say WR and punt returner. He's fast enough that if he can get through that first line, he can break it loose.
I might have to pay more attention but I have felt like he has done decent with the punts he has had to work with. We can't ask for a playmaker and then say don't run sideways or backwards. The truth is that a lot of td returns begin that way even if it does violate a cardinal sin of football.
Before Stroman, people said the same thing about Kyshoen. Before him, I heard the same about Hosley. Punt returner is a position where more often than not you either get less than 5 yards due to a fair catch or slipping the first tackle and not the second, or you get drilled because you don't call the fair catch. Not every punt will be broken for 10+ yards and that comes not from the returner but the blockers doing their job. Even Braxton Miller can't spin move himself out of poor blocking. The argument is stronger to throw fewer people on the punt block squad and have them blocking for the returner. Remember when people were upset because we had 2 guys returning the punt so that a punter couldn't pin us with a directional punt but also so that we could have a blocker right there for the returner and fans were upset that we weren't going for the block. And if our punt returner is the biggest gripe folks have right now, we're doing alright, but there are other issues that still need fixed. Stroman will be fine as long as he continues to hold onto the ball.
I think Stroman is fine. He had several last year that he almost broke. I think he wants to get one bad and that's where he's making some of his poorer decisions. I think they just need to reinforce in practice that if he's on the 10 and it's going over his head you let it go. I think he's fine back there the coaches just need to reinforce a couple decisions. It also seemed that against NCST we went for a lot of blocks, which as stated above, allows for more gunners to get down the field quicker and more uncontested. Also, stated above, when we start going for the return more people start questioning where "beamerball" has gone and that we used to block all the kicks. If we go for the block people complain about the lack of the return.
Yes, this is the biggest thing and the only issue I really have with him. I understand him losing up to 5 yards at times, but you can't do that at the 10. You have a better chance of it bouncing into the endzone inside the 10 so just move up and block the coverage team from getting to the ball and downing it.
Stroman is a weapon. This is best way to get him touches. I hate the jet sweep with him. Never seems to work but for the sake of argument. I think Deon Newsome also has the tools to make a good returner.
Speaking of Newsome, he showed skill at gunner on Friday, that's for sure.
I get that Stroman could break one, i just want someone to teach him the proper technique. You should never have to run back. You should run forward into the point and keep going. Doing this loop around only loses yards. No way he could break one doing that, as it gives the other team more time to come in on him and he will be slower due to reversing direction.
It not just about the guy returning the kicks, it's about the other 10 guy's making blocks!
Der'woun Green, he's back and he picks up big yardage on Kick returs, he could be a better option
Kick returns and punt returns are polar opposites.
Kick returners need to be able to find a gap and hit it. With no one bearing down on them.
Punt returners must be fearless and focused. They must be able to keep an eye on the field and one on the ball. Then usually immediately upon catching the ball has to make 1 or 2 guys miss.
He has struggled, but we seem to always try to block punts as opposed to having guys back to set up some blocks. He made a bad decision on catching the 1 punt against NCST inside the ten, and then tried to go backwards. But he had some great returns last year including a 37 yarder against Cincinatti in the bowl game. You can put somebody back there who will catch it and just run forward with no chance to break 1, or you can put Stroman back there and have it be feast or famine. It will usually be famine but I think he'll take one to the house before the ACC slate is over.
Does hypnosis really exist? Like, does it work?
Because if so, we need to hypnotize Greg into thinking the area of the field between the 10 yard line and the back of the endzone behind him when returning punts is made of hot lava, and unlike the rubber tires of James Bond's truck in Dante's Peak, he won't be able to function should he venture there.