IF we land him it'll help yes, but with the talent that was in VA this year, we were supposed to land a mega class. At this point likely end in disappointment (compared to early season expectations).
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From what I remember watching his film, Street is much more raw than Hand, but just as, if not more athletic. Hand was kind of a "must-get" from a perception standpoint. He was bullish on Tech early, in our state, loved Foster, so we have egg on our face for dropping out of the race. However, I'd be happy with either one of them, and Mihota (who has an Alabama offer) is no slouch either. Landing one of the big name defensive tackles is most important right now.
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I'm referring to the kids' perceptions. Players in the '15, '16, & '17 class see the top talent continue to go out of state and they'll start to perceive the instate schools as inferior. It's been happening for years. It's something we'll have to continue to fight against, but until some of them start staying, the perception will persist
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They might be down votes for faulty logic. How it Hand going out of state disrespectful to Virginia? If he committed to Tech would it be disrespect to UVa. Are the players we land from other states disrespecting their homes too? There's no rule, written or unwritten, that mandates a highly touted recruit attends an in-state school.
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His point is that these top recruits are constantly turning down in state schools and going elsewhere and it is a slap in the face of the virginia schools that they aren't good enough to get these players. He isn't saying its OK for them to do it or that they should stay in state. The fact that between VT and UVA we can't lock down the majority of the top talent in the state isnt good. How many top recruits from Ohio leave the state vs how many does Ohio State get? How many top recruits leave the state of Alabama? Texas has been mediocre and they still lock down top talent from Texas.
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For sake of counter argument 7 for rivals top 20 have committed, only 2 have committed to in state schools.
I don't see it as a slap in the face but finding a program and coaches that you like the most and who give you the very best chance to make the NFL(every top recruit is expecting to play in the NFL one day). As much as I'd love a top defensive talent to commit to VT can I really blame him if he commits to bama and the pedigree that they have?
If top in-state talent goes to other schools, then the problem lies with Virginia Tech and UVA not putting the effort and resources into recruiting and developing a program that is attractive to those recruits. The problem does not lie with an 18 year old kid going to the school that makes him happy and that makes him feel it is the best choice for his future.
I have held back on crushing Frank Beamer for being on vacation when Cornwell visited. But, Frank Beamer was on vacation when a five star recruit was on campus. Somehow I doubt that Hoke, Saban, Jimbo, Dabo, Fedora, or other coaches we are battling for the top guys are absent when premier talents visit campus. I am just saying...
We as fans can't be mad at the kids. They have earned the right to make this decision. Nobody sent me threatening tweets when I left a career at a grassroots advocacy non-profit when I made a choice to go "work for the man," and I assure you that choice was much more dark and greed driven than a kid deciding to go to a good school and football program out of state.
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This is the first that I've heard of CFB being on a vacation while Cornwell was visiting, but I'm assuming that 1.) CFB had planned the vacation at least several months in advance and hi might have had the schedule of other family members, not just his own that played into not being able to cancel or reschedule and 2.) He would have been on campus if Cornwell visited when he originally planned to do so; Cornwell's visit was delayed because of his HS eligibility issues.
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Tech athletic director Jim Weaver couldn't be reached Thursday in his office. He won't address Holmes' situation until he returns from vacation, which won't be until at least next Friday, according to Tech administrative assistant Carmela Smith. Tech football coach Frank Beamer also is on vacation.
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Maybe CFB knew Cornwell was out anyway, and didn't think it was worth changing his plans. Based on what DC5 said in a couple of the articles I read, he knew all along that he was going to Bama, and seemed to just hit VT up with no intention of changing his mind. Maybe CFB was onto that and figured whats the concern.
In addition, who knows how long we were really working on Ford. Maybe Ford has been the target for a while. Seems Reavis' tweets would help enforce that argument, because we were going to get good news, and then DC5 and Park dropped out of our running.
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IMO, b/c of the rise of technology, going out of state isn't what it was 10 years ago. Between skype, smart phones, social networking, etc, you can go anywhere in the country and still be in touch with everyone back home. I don't have any stats, but I'd bet that recruits (nationwide) are more likely to leave their home state than ever before.
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Great point. With Twitter and YouTube videos, there are no more "hidde gems" that do not get the exposure and hence are more likely to remain in state.
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The one thing you might be undervaluing, though, is parents wanting to see their kids play in person. But otherwise, I'd definitely agree that going out of state isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.
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That's really the biggest issue, IMHO. But even so, with the insane amount of TV coverage, just about anyone can see just about any game live, even if it's only on ESPN3. The exception is the Pac-12 Network, which I believe you have to pay for to even get the games online. If anyone can provide evidence against this, that'd be sweet, cause I still follow Stanford football quite a bit. *tangent complete*
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Honestly, I can't be mad at Foster, the coaching staff, or VT for not getting Hand. THe kid obviously realized that he doesn't need a hard major because he will more than likely go pro, so he switched from engineering to sports marketing. How is that VT's fault? If he switches back to engineering and we still don't get him, then that is on us, but until then, he basically made it virtually impossible for us to bring in. if we don't have the major, we aren't going to create one for one kid.
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Street would be fine with me. If he is raw, we have some depth at DE for him to develop. Getting Teller last year was huge. Getting at least 1 of the 2 DTs in Nnadi and Brown is very important though
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I can't recall where I saw this; but somewhere on the Internet, there was talk about Teller being a good rusher, but getting lost after he gets in the backfield. Is that right? (I really really hope not) has anyone here seen him play?
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Every player coming out of HS has things to work on. *every single one of them* Some get the stuff fixed early and dominate the college game, others take a little longer to get going. No worries about Teller right now for me. Three years from now, maybe, but not now. (sorry, wasn't poking at you directly)
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I don't put much stock in these predictions at all but I do like that the UGA insider now has Street to VT since the 4 earliest predictions had him going to UGA.
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It's interesting because he seemed to be all Dawg, but then there was a quiet shift, and some UGA fans seemed unsure. Then he went silent on twitter about recruiting and oddly the crystal ball got a bunch of VT predictions. Reminds me of when Hand all of a sudden got a bunch of Bama predictions and then dropped us, and Park got a sudden batch of UGA predictions and went that way.
I feel like some of these predictors get the inside track somewhere...
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Maybe its partly that, and partly recruitnicks wanting to be the "first" to predict it to validate their "sources". Who knows. Just as long as we don't have CNN prognosticating recruiting...
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There's something on 247 that tracks how long an insider is correct about a recruit's destination so it's to their advantage to change their picks once they feel more than 50% confident about something.
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I seriously hope this is sarcasm again... I try to avoid using decision matrices even as an engineer, I can't imagine too many football players use them to select their top 3 schools.
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Location/Proximity To Home
Depth chart loaded at position
Lack of desired academic focus
Dislike scheme, such as a 4-3 Defensive Lineman fitting in their 3-4 scheme or a mobile QB
Another recruit at his position already committed
Alabama not interested in recruit
That's just 6, but I think you get the idea. Just because they currently have the best program does not mean it's the best for every player.
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Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond...while Bama is a good choice for most top recruits it is incorrect to state that it is every prospect's "best" choice.
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there are always exceptions but Bama is the cream of the crop right now. I figured we were talking about elite prospects and those elite guys will benefit the most going to a place like that. They will see the playing time most likely.
A border line 3-4 * player would benefit more going somewhere else because they likely won't see the field there.
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Kids go to different schools for wildly different reasons. I am sure the NC pitch helps a place like Alabama, but its not the be all and end all. An elite prospect has just as good a chance at making it to the NFL at pretty much any BCS level school (Look at the recent history of the NFL draft, if you are good, the NFL will find you).
Also, winning in general does not seem to be as big a factor as most fans would like to think. How else can you explain elite recruits going to UVA?
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...Wait...London was a cop??!! You would think someone would have mention that before. You know on a message board or during a game on espn or something...
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None of the top recruits owe Nick Saban anything. Did he get them to where they are? Why does a kid want to ride the coattails of someone else's accomplishments? Why is there this belief that AL would be their best choice? Is it like trying to get into Harvard or Yale from an academic perspective?
Maybe we should ask the top recruits if they think they are good enough to go to Tech? You have to have more confidence, character, and toughness to go with an underdog. You have to have a belief that your abilities will help you succeed against adversity. That it is not the coach that will determine your outcome but yourself. The coach can guide you and keep you on the right path. VT is a good school for that and as good if not better than most "elite" schools. Ask anyone in the business.
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I agree with you, but I just don't think that High School kids are all thinking this way. Same question though of why NFL players get excited to play for the Patriots over the Rams, or MLB players wanting to play for the Yanks over most all other teams. It's more for the opportunity. They know that these great teams will give them the opportunity to play for the top prize. These kids want to win a national championship, and Bama has 3 in the last 4 years, so that would be a pretty good chance.
The real question would be, do these kids want to blaze their own path to the NC. Reavis seems to have that mindset, he wants to help build the team and get good players to help get to that level. They also have to realize that being second string or an intermittent player on a NC team may not be as strong as being a starter on a NC team.
I think that people still have to remember that it takes a while for a school to build a legacy. All the top programs that are pulling in great recruits are old and have been a top team for years. Bama has history, so do Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. Hell, even FSU has plenty. I feel that VT is starting to build that, and I feel like if we can now tip some of those big games over into a a win for us, it will start to come more and more. 15 years ago, we were turning 2 stars into great teams, and now we are starting to be in discussions for 5 stars.
It just takes time...
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The answer to any of the rhetorical questions either you or I have asked: it's the kid's choice. If anyone is being disrespectful it's the fans who can't deal with that. It's the recruit's life, his choice, it shouldn't be made to appease anyone but him.
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Many people forget that not long ago, Bama was below .500. THey were a consistent losing program with a rich history far behind them. They were a joke for 2/3 of the 2000-2010 decade. When Saban was hired for his ludicrous salary I pointed at Bama and laughed....at the time I thought it was ridiculous. Look what the move has done for them. The perception of this league changes at the drop of a hat. Right now, 2013, you have to acknowledge VT does not look good. Kids are no longer thinking about Mike Vick. He is becomming an outdated relic. The best hope we have now is that our new hires can recruit, recruit, recruit and that VT's current NFL players make a splash. The guys we lost last week still hurts. If VA's progeny puts out more top notch talent in the future and these new coaches cannot pull them in, then we can't expect to trend up to an elite program and our goal should be find a way to get the best talent without breaking the rules.
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I agree that he did a lot for our program, but VT was on the rise before that. We did beat Texas in a big bowl years before he came onboard, so it's not like things weren't on the up and up already. He didn't single handedly make it a perfect season, if I recall, we had a nasty run game and defense, and special teams was disgusting then.
We have had a lot of kids since then come in and go to the pros as well.
Honestly, I find all this talk frustrating. We had one bad year, and everyone thinks its the beginning of the end. We had a rough year, no doubt, but a lot of teams have a small stretch like that. I mean, PSU went through it a few years back as well, they seem to continue being known as a powerhouse, even after all the Sandusky issues.
I think the way recruiting has been, we continue to look on the up and up. We are in conversations for kids that in the years of Vick, we wouldn't have even been a thought.
Thats what Hokie football was after all, bring in some kid who wants to play (no matter his star standing), coach him up and play solid hard nose football.
One bad season, I dismiss it, we are by no means on the way down and out.
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I never said anything about being on the way out or the beginning of the end. I was echoing the thought that Vick's diminishing career hurts our recruiting efforts, because it does. Didn't mean to imply that the sky was falling.
And obviously we're in contention with recruits that pre-Vick we wouldn't have had a chance with. But don't you think Vick played a major role to get us to this point? I do. Yes we were on the rise, but we weren't on the rise to a national championship until Vick came.
In regards to Vick and recruiting, high school players like to follow greatness and Vick's the greatest greatness we have (especially for younger generations). Therefore, unless we start to pump out NFL stars (Chancellor is the closest thing we've had since Vick, correct me if I'm wrong) or we win a national championship or two, then Vick will remain one of our biggest pieces of recruiting PR. If he dwindles out of the spotlight and we don't have any other NFL stars show up, then we won't have that NFL figurehead we've been so used to having which will hurt in recruiting. That's my point. Not that it's all doom and gloom in Blacksburg, but that Vick is something these young kids can see tangible results from in regards to VT and if he continues to slope downward it doesn't bode well for our recruiting purposes. Not to say that we won't be able to recruit big names, just saying that foundation we've been so used to having won't be there anymore and we'll need something else to fill the void. Hopefully that's David Wilson becoming a star and one of these DBs we always get drafted to become a star or continuing to dominate the ACC or preferably, we win the crystal.
Sorry to imply that one bad season makes me think we're going to suck. I was just adding more to the Vick/recruiting connection that Eddieryan mentioned in his post because I think it's a real thing and something most Hokie fans don't think about or realize.
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(Chancellor is the closest thing we've had since Vick, correct me if I'm wrong)
David Wilson has the chance to be the next VT superstar at the NFL level. He could be a HUGE recruiting tool. He's young, flashy, big into social media (instagram/twitter) and he doesn't really get into trouble.
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Depends on your definition of NFL Star. Duane Brown has done pretty well. Deangelo Hall and Josh Morgan are starters. Even Flowers is doing well, despite how much the Chiefs sucked. Their names aren't lit up like Vick's but that's because of the position more than anything.
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Yeah Duane Brown was a pro bowler and someone was talking about him as one of the best left tackles in the league, but he also went on the record saying he didn't learn technique at all in college and had to learn it all in the NFL. Meanwhile, UVA placed an OL in the 1st round in three out of four years from 2006-2009.
Deangelo Hall is obviously a long term starter, but has an attitude that turns some people off, including a die-hard-Redskin-fan friend of mine. Darryl Tapp is still in the league somewhere, I think. But MV7 is our most recognizable alumni.
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I don't think so. Bruce Smith, I think, is our only Hall-of-Famer. He's our best overall product that has probably ever been in the league.
But MV7 is not only the flashiest, but recently felonious. I would think that the average non-football fan wouldn't have any idea who Bruce Smith is, but they've probably heard of Michael Vick. I'd go as far as to say that MV7 is probably, fortunately or not, the face of VT football in the NFL.
Just asked a non-football-fan coworker: You know who Bruce Smith is? [blank stare] What about Michael Vick? "Oh yeah, of course I know who he is".....
...and just completed a lap around the development team and most people under 40 don't know who Bruce Smith is. But all of them know Michael Vick. The question, "Who is the face of Virginia Tech football," generated all MV7 answers. 100%. Maybe my office here in State College, PA is biased for....some reason. But this was my point. When people think of VT football, the first name coming to mind is MV7.
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My point was more from a recruiting standpoint, what resonates with 18 year old kids who want to play college football. Sure Vick is prominent and more recent, but, at least I would assume, that these kids follow football and know the name Bruce Smith.
I agree that non-football fans would know Vick over Smith, but, at least as recruiting goes, I don't really care about their thoughts.
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I think the conversation is more about instant recognition rather than perfection. It also depends on the position of the player - ie, who is more recognizable? A flashy QB or a solid LT? So in that sense, Mike Vick (elusiveness) or David Wilson (speed) or Kam Chancellor (big hits) might get more time on the highlight reels, and hence be noted by more.
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Sorry, wasn't meant to point out your post as the catalyst, just seems to be a lot of other people pointing out how they don't like the direction things are heading.
I think we have a lot of guys that could help with the recruiting. Eventhough Tyrod is second to Flacco, he still has a superbowl ring and shows up on the sidelines a lot. Some of the other commenters also point out great players that are out there. I think Wilson has the opportunity to light it up.
I think Vick helped a lot, I just don't want to give him all the credit here. It's kind of like how people say the 460 bypass from 81 to blacksburg is Vick Highway, however that was planned before he became a student. To me, the program is the same, it was moving upward before he got there, he just helped push it a bit. I think we have some guys coming in that could help that again. I'm thinking 2015 or 2016 could be another NC year.
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Agree with StevenSorrell 100%....I am frustrated that we have one mediocre year and everyone is screaming that the sky is falling. There is ONE thing that can turn this attitude around 180 degrees and that is: #BEATBAMA
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Comments
IF we land him it'll help yes, but with the talent that was in VA this year, we were supposed to land a mega class. At this point likely end in disappointment (compared to early season expectations).
From what I remember watching his film, Street is much more raw than Hand, but just as, if not more athletic. Hand was kind of a "must-get" from a perception standpoint. He was bullish on Tech early, in our state, loved Foster, so we have egg on our face for dropping out of the race. However, I'd be happy with either one of them, and Mihota (who has an Alabama offer) is no slouch either. Landing one of the big name defensive tackles is most important right now.
Its becoming a perception problem. Each year the top talent goes out of state, it becomes more 'Ok' to do so.
It is not okay. It is disrespect for the state you grew up in.
I'm referring to the kids' perceptions. Players in the '15, '16, & '17 class see the top talent continue to go out of state and they'll start to perceive the instate schools as inferior. It's been happening for years. It's something we'll have to continue to fight against, but until some of them start staying, the perception will persist
Respectfully disagree. When NC players commit to VT, they are not necessarily disrespecting North Carolina or the NC schools, right?
Down votes because I expressed my opinion? Bad form.
They might be down votes for faulty logic. How it Hand going out of state disrespectful to Virginia? If he committed to Tech would it be disrespect to UVa. Are the players we land from other states disrespecting their homes too? There's no rule, written or unwritten, that mandates a highly touted recruit attends an in-state school.
His point is that these top recruits are constantly turning down in state schools and going elsewhere and it is a slap in the face of the virginia schools that they aren't good enough to get these players. He isn't saying its OK for them to do it or that they should stay in state. The fact that between VT and UVA we can't lock down the majority of the top talent in the state isnt good. How many top recruits from Ohio leave the state vs how many does Ohio State get? How many top recruits leave the state of Alabama? Texas has been mediocre and they still lock down top talent from Texas.
For sake of counter argument 7 for rivals top 20 have committed, only 2 have committed to in state schools.
I don't see it as a slap in the face but finding a program and coaches that you like the most and who give you the very best chance to make the NFL(every top recruit is expecting to play in the NFL one day). As much as I'd love a top defensive talent to commit to VT can I really blame him if he commits to bama and the pedigree that they have?
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/...
If top in-state talent goes to other schools, then the problem lies with Virginia Tech and UVA not putting the effort and resources into recruiting and developing a program that is attractive to those recruits. The problem does not lie with an 18 year old kid going to the school that makes him happy and that makes him feel it is the best choice for his future.
I have held back on crushing Frank Beamer for being on vacation when Cornwell visited. But, Frank Beamer was on vacation when a five star recruit was on campus. Somehow I doubt that Hoke, Saban, Jimbo, Dabo, Fedora, or other coaches we are battling for the top guys are absent when premier talents visit campus. I am just saying...
We as fans can't be mad at the kids. They have earned the right to make this decision. Nobody sent me threatening tweets when I left a career at a grassroots advocacy non-profit when I made a choice to go "work for the man," and I assure you that choice was much more dark and greed driven than a kid deciding to go to a good school and football program out of state.
This is the first that I've heard of CFB being on a vacation while Cornwell was visiting, but I'm assuming that 1.) CFB had planned the vacation at least several months in advance and hi might have had the schedule of other family members, not just his own that played into not being able to cancel or reschedule and 2.) He would have been on campus if Cornwell visited when he originally planned to do so; Cornwell's visit was delayed because of his HS eligibility issues.
It is mentioned in David Teel's piece on Michael Holmes court decision, which was the day after Cornwell visited.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/colleges/virginia-tech/dp-spt-tech-mich...
Tech athletic director Jim Weaver couldn't be reached Thursday in his office. He won't address Holmes' situation until he returns from vacation, which won't be until at least next Friday, according to Tech administrative assistant Carmela Smith. Tech football coach Frank Beamer also is on vacation.
Maybe CFB knew Cornwell was out anyway, and didn't think it was worth changing his plans. Based on what DC5 said in a couple of the articles I read, he knew all along that he was going to Bama, and seemed to just hit VT up with no intention of changing his mind. Maybe CFB was onto that and figured whats the concern.
In addition, who knows how long we were really working on Ford. Maybe Ford has been the target for a while. Seems Reavis' tweets would help enforce that argument, because we were going to get good news, and then DC5 and Park dropped out of our running.
IMO, b/c of the rise of technology, going out of state isn't what it was 10 years ago. Between skype, smart phones, social networking, etc, you can go anywhere in the country and still be in touch with everyone back home. I don't have any stats, but I'd bet that recruits (nationwide) are more likely to leave their home state than ever before.
Great point. With Twitter and YouTube videos, there are no more "hidde gems" that do not get the exposure and hence are more likely to remain in state.
The one thing you might be undervaluing, though, is parents wanting to see their kids play in person. But otherwise, I'd definitely agree that going out of state isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.
That's really the biggest issue, IMHO. But even so, with the insane amount of TV coverage, just about anyone can see just about any game live, even if it's only on ESPN3. The exception is the Pac-12 Network, which I believe you have to pay for to even get the games online. If anyone can provide evidence against this, that'd be sweet, cause I still follow Stanford football quite a bit. *tangent complete*
Honestly, I can't be mad at Foster, the coaching staff, or VT for not getting Hand. THe kid obviously realized that he doesn't need a hard major because he will more than likely go pro, so he switched from engineering to sports marketing. How is that VT's fault? If he switches back to engineering and we still don't get him, then that is on us, but until then, he basically made it virtually impossible for us to bring in. if we don't have the major, we aren't going to create one for one kid.
Yeah, I can't disagree. I'd like to be able to hang our collective hats on a Myron Rolle type kid though.
Bama doesn't have that major either and they're on his list.
Street would be fine with me. If he is raw, we have some depth at DE for him to develop. Getting Teller last year was huge. Getting at least 1 of the 2 DTs in Nnadi and Brown is very important though
I can't recall where I saw this; but somewhere on the Internet, there was talk about Teller being a good rusher, but getting lost after he gets in the backfield. Is that right? (I really really hope not) has anyone here seen him play?
Every player coming out of HS has things to work on. *every single one of them* Some get the stuff fixed early and dominate the college game, others take a little longer to get going. No worries about Teller right now for me. Three years from now, maybe, but not now. (sorry, wasn't poking at you directly)
If you consider the 247 Crystal Ball to be an indicator of recruiting fluctuations, the last two predictions have Street to VT: http://247sports.com/Player/Kentavius-Street-25734/PlayerInstitutionPred....
I don't put much stock in these predictions at all but I do like that the UGA insider now has Street to VT since the 4 earliest predictions had him going to UGA.
anyone have Street's twitter handle?
@supastreet35
https://twitter.com/SupaStreet35
God he responds to a lot of posers. And they're all from Georgia. I wonder if ass kissing a recruit actually changes their perception of the school.
It's interesting because he seemed to be all Dawg, but then there was a quiet shift, and some UGA fans seemed unsure. Then he went silent on twitter about recruiting and oddly the crystal ball got a bunch of VT predictions. Reminds me of when Hand all of a sudden got a bunch of Bama predictions and then dropped us, and Park got a sudden batch of UGA predictions and went that way.
I feel like some of these predictors get the inside track somewhere...
Maybe its partly that, and partly recruitnicks wanting to be the "first" to predict it to validate their "sources". Who knows. Just as long as we don't have CNN prognosticating recruiting...
There's something on 247 that tracks how long an insider is correct about a recruit's destination so it's to their advantage to change their picks once they feel more than 50% confident about something.
Why is AL not the best choice for a top recruit? What are ten good reasons?
"Best" choice? Depends on what selection matrix the recruit is using to determine where they want to go to school.
I seriously hope this is sarcasm again... I try to avoid using decision matrices even as an engineer, I can't imagine too many football players use them to select their top 3 schools.
Yup, I'm at it again lol. I greatly dislike selection matrices.
Location/Proximity To Home
Depth chart loaded at position
Lack of desired academic focus
Dislike scheme, such as a 4-3 Defensive Lineman fitting in their 3-4 scheme or a mobile QB
Another recruit at his position already committed
Alabama not interested in recruit
That's just 6, but I think you get the idea. Just because they currently have the best program does not mean it's the best for every player.
Alabama football player is the best paying job in the entire state of Alabama.
From a non biased view, it is the best choice. They are the best team, pumping players to the NFL, winning championships.
Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond...while Bama is a good choice for most top recruits it is incorrect to state that it is every prospect's "best" choice.
there are always exceptions but Bama is the cream of the crop right now. I figured we were talking about elite prospects and those elite guys will benefit the most going to a place like that. They will see the playing time most likely.
A border line 3-4 * player would benefit more going somewhere else because they likely won't see the field there.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe they had a third string offensive lineman drafted. They can even put backups in the NFL.
Kids go to different schools for wildly different reasons. I am sure the NC pitch helps a place like Alabama, but its not the be all and end all. An elite prospect has just as good a chance at making it to the NFL at pretty much any BCS level school (Look at the recent history of the NFL draft, if you are good, the NFL will find you).
Also, winning in general does not seem to be as big a factor as most fans would like to think. How else can you explain elite recruits going to UVA?
Umm because Mike London was a cop....duh
...Wait...London was a cop??!! You would think someone would have mention that before. You know on a message board or during a game on espn or something...
I think he only uses it to promote his speaking gigs. The last one was "How To Effectively Use Timeouts When The Game Is On The Line".
None of the top recruits owe Nick Saban anything. Did he get them to where they are? Why does a kid want to ride the coattails of someone else's accomplishments? Why is there this belief that AL would be their best choice? Is it like trying to get into Harvard or Yale from an academic perspective?
Maybe we should ask the top recruits if they think they are good enough to go to Tech? You have to have more confidence, character, and toughness to go with an underdog. You have to have a belief that your abilities will help you succeed against adversity. That it is not the coach that will determine your outcome but yourself. The coach can guide you and keep you on the right path. VT is a good school for that and as good if not better than most "elite" schools. Ask anyone in the business.
I agree with you, but I just don't think that High School kids are all thinking this way. Same question though of why NFL players get excited to play for the Patriots over the Rams, or MLB players wanting to play for the Yanks over most all other teams. It's more for the opportunity. They know that these great teams will give them the opportunity to play for the top prize. These kids want to win a national championship, and Bama has 3 in the last 4 years, so that would be a pretty good chance.
The real question would be, do these kids want to blaze their own path to the NC. Reavis seems to have that mindset, he wants to help build the team and get good players to help get to that level. They also have to realize that being second string or an intermittent player on a NC team may not be as strong as being a starter on a NC team.
I think that people still have to remember that it takes a while for a school to build a legacy. All the top programs that are pulling in great recruits are old and have been a top team for years. Bama has history, so do Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. Hell, even FSU has plenty. I feel that VT is starting to build that, and I feel like if we can now tip some of those big games over into a a win for us, it will start to come more and more. 15 years ago, we were turning 2 stars into great teams, and now we are starting to be in discussions for 5 stars.
It just takes time...
The answer to any of the rhetorical questions either you or I have asked: it's the kid's choice. If anyone is being disrespectful it's the fans who can't deal with that. It's the recruit's life, his choice, it shouldn't be made to appease anyone but him.
He had a good visit at NC State today...posted this on twitter:
"N.C State visit today went AMAZING. Big S/O to #PackNation!!!! Starting to feel at home here."
I think I saw an article how NCS may be the underdog victor in this race.
Many people forget that not long ago, Bama was below .500. THey were a consistent losing program with a rich history far behind them. They were a joke for 2/3 of the 2000-2010 decade. When Saban was hired for his ludicrous salary I pointed at Bama and laughed....at the time I thought it was ridiculous. Look what the move has done for them. The perception of this league changes at the drop of a hat. Right now, 2013, you have to acknowledge VT does not look good. Kids are no longer thinking about Mike Vick. He is becomming an outdated relic. The best hope we have now is that our new hires can recruit, recruit, recruit and that VT's current NFL players make a splash. The guys we lost last week still hurts. If VA's progeny puts out more top notch talent in the future and these new coaches cannot pull them in, then we can't expect to trend up to an elite program and our goal should be find a way to get the best talent without breaking the rules.
+1 for "Kids are no longer thinking about Mike Vick. He is becoming an outdated relic."
I don't think most Hokie fans realize how true a statement that is and how damning it can be for our recruiting.
I agree that he did a lot for our program, but VT was on the rise before that. We did beat Texas in a big bowl years before he came onboard, so it's not like things weren't on the up and up already. He didn't single handedly make it a perfect season, if I recall, we had a nasty run game and defense, and special teams was disgusting then.
We have had a lot of kids since then come in and go to the pros as well.
Honestly, I find all this talk frustrating. We had one bad year, and everyone thinks its the beginning of the end. We had a rough year, no doubt, but a lot of teams have a small stretch like that. I mean, PSU went through it a few years back as well, they seem to continue being known as a powerhouse, even after all the Sandusky issues.
I think the way recruiting has been, we continue to look on the up and up. We are in conversations for kids that in the years of Vick, we wouldn't have even been a thought.
Thats what Hokie football was after all, bring in some kid who wants to play (no matter his star standing), coach him up and play solid hard nose football.
One bad season, I dismiss it, we are by no means on the way down and out.
I never said anything about being on the way out or the beginning of the end. I was echoing the thought that Vick's diminishing career hurts our recruiting efforts, because it does. Didn't mean to imply that the sky was falling.
And obviously we're in contention with recruits that pre-Vick we wouldn't have had a chance with. But don't you think Vick played a major role to get us to this point? I do. Yes we were on the rise, but we weren't on the rise to a national championship until Vick came.
In regards to Vick and recruiting, high school players like to follow greatness and Vick's the greatest greatness we have (especially for younger generations). Therefore, unless we start to pump out NFL stars (Chancellor is the closest thing we've had since Vick, correct me if I'm wrong) or we win a national championship or two, then Vick will remain one of our biggest pieces of recruiting PR. If he dwindles out of the spotlight and we don't have any other NFL stars show up, then we won't have that NFL figurehead we've been so used to having which will hurt in recruiting. That's my point. Not that it's all doom and gloom in Blacksburg, but that Vick is something these young kids can see tangible results from in regards to VT and if he continues to slope downward it doesn't bode well for our recruiting purposes. Not to say that we won't be able to recruit big names, just saying that foundation we've been so used to having won't be there anymore and we'll need something else to fill the void. Hopefully that's David Wilson becoming a star and one of these DBs we always get drafted to become a star or continuing to dominate the ACC or preferably, we win the crystal.
Sorry to imply that one bad season makes me think we're going to suck. I was just adding more to the Vick/recruiting connection that Eddieryan mentioned in his post because I think it's a real thing and something most Hokie fans don't think about or realize.
David Wilson has the chance to be the next VT superstar at the NFL level. He could be a HUGE recruiting tool. He's young, flashy, big into social media (instagram/twitter) and he doesn't really get into trouble.
Depends on your definition of NFL Star. Duane Brown has done pretty well. Deangelo Hall and Josh Morgan are starters. Even Flowers is doing well, despite how much the Chiefs sucked. Their names aren't lit up like Vick's but that's because of the position more than anything.
Yeah Duane Brown was a pro bowler and someone was talking about him as one of the best left tackles in the league, but he also went on the record saying he didn't learn technique at all in college and had to learn it all in the NFL. Meanwhile, UVA placed an OL in the 1st round in three out of four years from 2006-2009.
On a side note, Pre Snap Read ranked Brandon Flowers as the league's 5th best cornerback in a pretty comprehensive analysis yesterday.
Deangelo Hall is obviously a long term starter, but has an attitude that turns some people off, including a die-hard-Redskin-fan friend of mine. Darryl Tapp is still in the league somewhere, I think. But MV7 is our most recognizable alumni.
"But MV7 is our most recognizable alumni."
I think you are forgetting someone: Bruce Smith.
I don't think so. Bruce Smith, I think, is our only Hall-of-Famer. He's our best overall product that has probably ever been in the league.
But MV7 is not only the flashiest, but recently felonious. I would think that the average non-football fan wouldn't have any idea who Bruce Smith is, but they've probably heard of Michael Vick. I'd go as far as to say that MV7 is probably, fortunately or not, the face of VT football in the NFL.
Just asked a non-football-fan coworker: You know who Bruce Smith is? [blank stare] What about Michael Vick? "Oh yeah, of course I know who he is".....
...and just completed a lap around the development team and most people under 40 don't know who Bruce Smith is. But all of them know Michael Vick. The question, "Who is the face of Virginia Tech football," generated all MV7 answers. 100%. Maybe my office here in State College, PA is biased for....some reason. But this was my point. When people think of VT football, the first name coming to mind is MV7.
My point was more from a recruiting standpoint, what resonates with 18 year old kids who want to play college football. Sure Vick is prominent and more recent, but, at least I would assume, that these kids follow football and know the name Bruce Smith.
I agree that non-football fans would know Vick over Smith, but, at least as recruiting goes, I don't really care about their thoughts.
Exactly this. This speaks to my point in the original posts. Thanks horse
Doesn't anyone play Tecmo Super Bowl anymore!?
It's hooked up to my TV right now.
Tapp is a skin too. The skins have quite a few hokies.
sigh...
Yeah, not happy about it either...
to your comment Brandon flowers has done very well a multiple pro bowler and considered a top 5 cb in the nfl by many
I think the conversation is more about instant recognition rather than perfection. It also depends on the position of the player - ie, who is more recognizable? A flashy QB or a solid LT? So in that sense, Mike Vick (elusiveness) or David Wilson (speed) or Kam Chancellor (big hits) might get more time on the highlight reels, and hence be noted by more.
Sorry, wasn't meant to point out your post as the catalyst, just seems to be a lot of other people pointing out how they don't like the direction things are heading.
I think we have a lot of guys that could help with the recruiting. Eventhough Tyrod is second to Flacco, he still has a superbowl ring and shows up on the sidelines a lot. Some of the other commenters also point out great players that are out there. I think Wilson has the opportunity to light it up.
I think Vick helped a lot, I just don't want to give him all the credit here. It's kind of like how people say the 460 bypass from 81 to blacksburg is Vick Highway, however that was planned before he became a student. To me, the program is the same, it was moving upward before he got there, he just helped push it a bit. I think we have some guys coming in that could help that again. I'm thinking 2015 or 2016 could be another NC year.
Agree with StevenSorrell 100%....I am frustrated that we have one mediocre year and everyone is screaming that the sky is falling. There is ONE thing that can turn this attitude around 180 degrees and that is: #BEATBAMA