I pushed some updates live early this morning, most notably:
I removed the turkey leg count next to the username in the comment header. That eases some database overhead, cleans up the interface and prevents wrapping on handheld devices. If you want to see a user's turkey leg count, just view their profile.
I made the reply to a comment link more obvious to help people avoid comment fail. Click reply to reply to an individual comment.
Voting buttons drop to the next line on handheld devices.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Very clean and simple. Nicely done, Joe!
I think removing the turkey leg count will prevent other arguments as well, like keeping the condescending / resentful comments to a minimum
this is an interesting theory. Do you think that having a higher/lower turkey leg count has an affect on how people view certain comments?
Maybe there's a bit of a response bias? Would it go against the social "norm" to disagree with someone who has 40k+ turkey legs?
There could be something to this theory. I really don't know so I'm interested to hear your reasoning behind it.
I'll be honest, I've been going through other threads trying to get caught up this morning and until seeing this post about the changes I hadn't even noticed that individual TL counts were absent. It's a cleaner look though...
As many times as we've seen people throw the "and here come those who have all the turkey legs downvoting a negative opinion" or something similar, I think it removes the petty stuff to focus on quality of contribution not someone's history on the site. The names of people who frequently comment will stick out and people will remember them, but there's no more "hey, you're new and don't know your way around here so let's all upvote you 35 times as a welcome." Or even, "hey, you're new here so your violation of the community rules will only warrant a warning instead of downvotes and a banhammer." Provide quality material, receive a leg. Plain and simple and in the spirit of what Joe designed it for IMO.
As founding member and current president of the 40k+ leg club (DAMMIT JOE WHERE IS MY MEMBERSHIP BUTTON?!?!), I can assure you that people disagree with me all the time. And that's totally cool; I enjoy discussion and debate.
The overall point of response bias is an interesting one. I have often wondered if some people get reflexive upvotes based on an assumption that anything that certain people say merits them, influenced by the TL count. My guess is that there isn't much of an effect, but it would be an interesting psychological investigation.
I think it would be interesting too. It's sort of why I posed the question. It's kind of amazing how many little subtle things affect how humans act in every day life. Even though we may think that we're not affected by certain things, we are. I'm not a psychologist so I can't speak to it professionally, but as someone who has participated in some psychological experiments I can say that I've been influenced by things I didn't think I could or would be influenced by without even realizing it.
I guess my point is that it's not likely anyone will admit to being influenced by TL counts but I'm just about certain it has an affect on how people read and react to certain comments.
I'm pretty sure that I've scrolled through some debates and up-voted comments by TKPers who had high turkey legs more willingly than those who have lower TL counts. I don't do this on purpose...I don't realize that I've done it until I reflect back on it after the fact.
Bringing the discussion back full circle to your original question, I know I have caught myself allowing turkey leg counts affect the manner in which I comment/up or downvote. Obviously not everyone will do this, but if I have caught myself in the act Im almost certain at least a notable amount of people have done it. I think it all goes back to the "one of us" mentality.
Me: "That comment wasnt all that funny, but they're an established member of TKP +1"
OR
Me: "That comment wasnt all that funny, and their TL count is pretty low. Still need to learn the finer points of TKP Jr." *Continues to scroll*
Vice-Versa on being easier to DV when they have a stack of legs compared to if a DV could get them banned.
I think there's an effect. Initially, I was hesitant to disagree with someone with a high leg count. I definitely got over it :)
I guess we'll find out now.
The board seems faster to me without the count presented.
No, you are fully and unequivocally wrong. People never disagree with you.
I'm tempted to downvote that, because I think he has more legs, and because your comment self-refutes...
Ahh, I'm to lazy to verify the leg count, so no deductions.
You, sir, know how to TKP and therefore must have many many of these so called "turkey legs"
I no longer know who has more legs than me so because of that I hate you all!!!!
Now the gloves come off, I will smash your face into a car windshield, and then take your mother out for a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!!
I have to admit I did like seeing everyone's Turkey Leg count while reading through the post.
Perhaps hovering over the name to view the Turkey Leg count (similar to hovering over the *$ to see donations) would be the ideal solution?
*clicks on bar1990 username*
*scrolls through profile*
*over 4K TLs*
*returns to comment*
*up-vote*
edit: I don't want it to seem like I'm pining for the TL counts to return. I actually really like the cleaner look. I'm just making a joke
Perhaps down the road, but not right now. Because of the underlying CMS' API there's a MySQL query for each comment in a thread. (It's the same deal for the votes.) This is grossly inefficient. Even if the total were a hover over, the query would still need to be done.
I was half tempted to not even mention it, to see how many people would notice. Like any UI change, it'll take some time to get used to, but I think it'll be for the better.
Ah, that is rather inefficient.
Just curious - are you planning on releasing a major update (TKP 3.0, or whatever version we're on) at any point in the future? I feel like you've alluded to it in past meta threads, but maybe I'm just delusional?
Joe's next child will be named TKP 3.0
off season. I'm surprised Joe had the time to even make these updates mid season.
There will be plenty of new features released this offseason, but it won't be an overhaul like a few years ago.
Cool stuff. I work in software consulting and part of my work focuses on end user design, so I'm always interested as to what/why updates are made. Thanks.
I noticed the line break and reply link change before I saw this thread. Did not notice that the turkey leg count disappeared. I'm guessing the more turkey legs a poster has, the more likely they care about that number, and thus would be more likely to look for it next to someone's name.
By the way, do you handle votes in the same way as sites like reddit or imgur? I guess they would also have to make a MySQL query for each vote, but I'm not sure. I don't even know if those site use MySQL or a non-relational database.
I had to check your profile, but, given your dearth of turkey legs, I'm going to ignore your opinion /s
There're various ways to do it. Given the scale of Reddit / imgur, they probably have a high performance cache solution.
For TKP, the right way to do it is to grab all the data needed with a single query (i.e. turkey leg count for every user/comment in the thread at once, not once for every comment in the thread). TKP is a highly customized version of Drupal (open source CMS). The access Drupal provides to its internals via its API is limited with regards to to this problem. TKP's voting code works in a similar manner, but I am in the process of heavily optimizing it.
I was going to ask you if this was built on Drupal. I spent a long time developing a site for fun and screwing around with the Voting API.
Yeah I hate numerous MySQL queries. (no idea what you're talking about) I'm just happy the wrapping is gone on my iPhone; the single-character-width diatribes were getting old fast.
A moot point since it's been removed, but would it be more efficient to perform a single query to gather all the turkey leg counts in one go? My experience with MySQL is extremely limited (thanks to VTCS barely even mentioning databases), but I'm imagining something along the lines of: scan the page for all users with comments, run a SELECT query with all the users as constraints, populate some sort of map/associative array with the results, and then access as needed.Definitely would take more space since you have to store everything rather than query and use it right away - don't know if the time-space tradeoff would be worth it. Also not considering the fact I'm sure you're doing some pretty intensedork magicon the back end that's beyond my understanding of databases.Or if you're a glutton for punishment, use some sort of convoluted JOIN to get the counts while loading the comments depending on how you have your databases set up.Edit: Totally missed the part about Drupal playing a role in making all this difficult, so pretty much ignore my comments. Left the part about dork magic...because dork magic haha
Can I ask what type of CMS underpins TKP?
I think he mentioned it was a customized version of Drupal
True story: I never knew you could hover over the *$ to see donations.
I gotta admit, I'm a little conflicted about not being able to see TL totals in "normal" situations. I don't think I would ever actually click on someone's profile to see their TL total, unless it was to see if a troll-esque comment came from someone new (low # of legs, recent TKP birthday). Meh, we'll see how I feel after a couple weeks. I might not miss it.
Wholehearted bravo on the other changes though. Looks great on the iphone.
Joe on fleek with these new updates !
Dammit Joe, now I have to click an extra time to check how close 2HokiesIn1 is to 80085 legs. /s
I actually liked the total TLs. I know. I'm weird.
Any chance you could include "Total Amount Donated" in the profiles as well? I think showing how much a user has given to TKP is just as important than knowing how many turkey legs they have.
Please don't mistake this as a selfish request because I'll gladly keep donating, regardless. But it's possible that it may entice more users to donate if you introduce new ways to recognize their contributions.
I just want to see us hit that 40K mark!
I was on the opposite side of this. I'd rather not have dollar amounts visible anywhere.
I'm with HOAT on this...financials should be private. If individuals wish to share how much they have donated that is their own prerogative. To not have a choice in the matter may discourage some folks from donating.
I completely understand and respect your thoughts, but it isn't like our donations aren't displayed already. They just aren't aggregated.
If anonymity is preferred by some users, then I would suggest a setting on the user's profile to give the option to display or hide their donations.
It might be easier (and less work for Joe to curate) by setting the *$ hover info for all one-time donors to show as "donor" or "supporter" and those who do recurrent donations as something like "continuing benefactor." Just throwing that out there as a thought. I don't really mind either way, but I can see how it might bug some people to have the exact numbers shown; the point is to indicate gratitude for those who financially support TKP.
yeah I don't personally have any issue with others knowing whether or not I've donated and how much I've donated if I have. I can see how the fact that the amount is public might turn some people away though. I do appreciate that there is a public display of gratitude for those who have donated. It does make me feel good to know my donation is outwardly appreciated.
I am just happy to see the little "$" next to my name. It is a good display of thanks and seeing so many dollar signs next to people's names is very encouraging. I personally think that people do not need to know how much was given by someone, but I can see both sides of that coin. Knowing amounts could lead to some people thinking they are higher up on the totem pole and can look down on others, but I would certainly hope with the community we have, that that wouldn't really become an issue. On the other side, seeing that you can make a huge difference just by a recurring donation of $1 or $5 a month could help others to donate that previously thought that they couldn't really afford it.
Edit: I forgot to add that I really like the new changes, Joe. Thanks for your hard work and continually improving TKP.
We could have titles for level of giving, with absolutely no context for what they mean. No one would have any idea if "Triple Platinum Diamond Adamantium Hokie" has given more than "Mithril Unobtanium Emerald Hokie."
The TKP member who has given the most could earn the elusive "Expired Hardee's Coupon Bagman" flair.
I have to think Dork Magic would be up there pretty high on the list
Fully Dipped would have to be the top spot.
Or we could just go with "Moderator".
Oh wait, that's taken.
One of the two major projects on my plate is for TKP to natively handle the financial support. In other words, Paypal will be cut from the equation. This will allow me to add functionality like above (which I think is a terrifically silly idea).
The other major project is the stainless steel TKP keychain bottle openers.
Spoiler: The two are related.
Sounds pretty righteous.
My favorite feature that may have already been there that I didn't realize is that the Turkey Leg Big Board now has everyone and not just the top 100. And with the "last" button, we can see the lowest scores on TKP. Hello again socalbuck2014 and Avanti54. What's impressive is that those are community bans and not Joe dropping the banhammer.
Hadn't noticed that. Pretty cool. Looking up some of those guys is like the Hall of Fame of stupid stuff posted on the site.
Hall of Shame
For TKP, I think we should call it the Hall of Krod.
Think about it for a moment. It'll come to you.
I think we should have two levels of the Hall of Shame.
-1 to -49 = Charlottesville.
-50 and worse = Morgantown.
Careful. Some might see those as "something to aspire to".
Well, people already aspire to go to those schools to play on their football team...
Hate to quibble, but you have them in the wrong order.
The real quesion is, if Alum07 starts to get close enough to catch you, do you turn to the dark side and start using you -10 down-vote powers to nefariously pad your lead?
Nah, I'll just go back to my old mainstays of player memes and Mike London jokes. UVA week is rapidly approaching...
Umm you forgot Emma
I like Emma
via GIPHY
And also.....
via GIPHY
It's like Avani54 showed up and managed to get down-voted into oblivion, then socalbuck2014 showed up three days later and to prove that he could flame out even more spectacularly. If I remember correctly, weren't they both anOSU fans?
What is this Turkey Leg Big Board of which you speak?
Bottom of the page.
http://www.thekeyplay.com/turkey-legs-big-board
cool. I'm in the top 100!!! sweet.
yeah so if you google "turkey legs big board" the first link you get is TKP...at least for me it is
and right below it is this
I use to gaze proudly at that page when I was at the top of it. Up until the Great Turkey Leg Reset of 2014. Since then, I've been sliding down the rankings faster than a Bud Foster defense.
from number 1 to number 5. Sounds rough. #SECproblems
Hi my name is Beamer's Auto Garage and I have a addiction..
The excitement of seeing that I was in the top 100 made me the happiest I have been today...
I was always told that I would never amount to much!!! Proved you wrong, TWO years of kindergarten!! Look who's coloring outside the box now!!!
If you go to your profile and click on your number of Turkey Legs, it will take you to the Big Board. It shows where every member stands in rankings by their number of individual Turkey Legs. It's a pretty awesome feature.
Joe,
would it be possible to stick a basketball schedule on the sidebar of the site? Just to have a convenient place to see sports schedules (maybe include other sports too?)
Football and basketball are at the bottom of every page.
(Jk I didn't know that was there either)
but that's so hard to get to on threads with comments if you're mobile browsing...
i meant like posting the actual schedule...not links to the schedules
It's not something I want to manage. HokieSports.com keeps them updated, other than usability issues with that website, it doesn't make sense for TKP (i.e. me) to do.
fair enough...as someone with no computer skillz I can't fully appreciate what would go into that
always relevant to TKP upgrade requests:
Would a ticker at the top with the "upcoming games" be possible?
I'll be willing to buy another TKPC membership to see it happen ;)
Why am I suddenly reminded of this episode
Spend a day in my head and you'll understand why...
Haha i wasn't criticizing that scene really just popped in my head.
Joe, Didn't really know where to put this, and I'm certainly not expecting implementation but I had an idea that I thought I'd share:
It would be nice if the Recent/My Comments page could provide the same background color effects that they have in the threads. It would allow people to see and understand the community wide response to their comment in the comment only pages without having to jump to the topic threads.