It is hard to set a simple statistic as the measuring stick before a game. But here is my best attempt:
OSU scores less than 20 points (on offense)=Great game by defense
OSU scores less than 28 points (on offense)=Good game by defense
OSU scores more than 35 points (on offense)=Disappointing game by defense
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haha. I was asking a serious question. Our offense finished 60th in the country this year. I don't see us holding the ball for 40 minutes and putting up 50 points on offense.
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I cannot see any way to possibly judge that in a vacuum before the game. The offense never gets past midfield, and turns the ball over 5 times, and the defense gives up several, including some awful calls from the officials, and I could still say they were not to blame. The defense gets good field position, but gives up a TD on every drive, and its a bad game, even if they only score 28 because our offense ground it out with the run and denied them the ball.
There is probably a points per drive metric that would do it, but I am not going to bother to put the math into figuring out what that is for a hypothetical. Ask me after the game and I won't have to do math to tell you if we won because the defense was awesome, the offense kicked ass, special teams went all #25 on them, or all of the above.
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I think it comes down to a certain degree of subjectivity. How often does Rudolph get hit? Do we get a key 3 and out or turnover? Does the defense appear to hold up their end of the bargain? Does the defense put up an epic 4 down stand at the goalline to seal the win?
500 yards passing won't mean much if the ball doesn't cross the goalline. Before anyone says that can't happen, when Don Strock set the single game passing mark with 527 yards in 1972, he did so without throwing a touchdown (which has to be some sort of NCAA record).
Virginia Tech lost that game. If Rudolph throws for 500 without a TD, Ok State will leave empty handed.
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I understand the sarcasm in the post I directly replied to... You are an idiot because you seem to have a legitimate and reasonable question that you keep asking about defensive performance and standards but your demeanor, attitude and tone constantly result in arguments rather than discussions... If you weren't an idiot you might have more productive interactions.
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You could have answered the original question with a thoughtful response, or just ignored the thread. Instead you post just to call me names- which is a VERY "productive interaction" I tell ya.
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I wasn't hoping for a productive interaction with you, it is clear from your previous posts (here and elsewhere) not to set such lofty goals. My only intention was to let you know that I think you are an idiot. It has been accomplished.
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Additionally, while technically not irony, I believe he's referring to the fact that my post calling someone an idiot (to make a joke) has a substantially positive score while the person referenced was heavily downvoted for name calling.
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If OSU's offense has to drive the field reasonably- meaning they don't get gifted with short fields all game like Tennessee did in Bristol, I think if they score 35 points with over 550 yards, that it was a bad day for the VT defense. Regardless of what our offense does.
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Oklahoma State has the third most efficient offense in the country right now. It will be key to limit the number of plays they have. Obviously, part of this is forcing their offense into 3rd & Long, and putting their offense in difficult positions, but part of this is also a field position battle (special teams pinning them deep and Offense not turning the ball over), and our offense being efficient (staying on the field, and scoring).
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I'd say any score in the 30's and the defense did their job, nothing more, nothing less. 20's or less and you can blame the offense if we lose, 40's or more and blame the defense.
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If they score more than 40, we are gonna lose. I suppose you can say they know this going in, but offense ties in to the defense so it would be naive to just say defense is accountable for that.
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What's the threshold for accountability on posting stupid thread topics? Good grief, the game is 2 days away and you're ready to pull out the knives to stab the defense, the unit that carried us through the year, in the back?
GTFOH
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I threw out a hypothetical question.. I didn't stab the defense in the back..I asked hypothetically what a bad game for them would be. People that get defensive over that are usually the ones to give the defense a pass.
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Why are you so damn insistent on attempting to focus on the negatives? Our defense has been stellar this season, so it's more than a little unfair to start clamoring "how much are you willing to see before you say they suck". This strikes me as the guys at the bar who went full blown red faced rage spouting off "there goes that Bud Foster defense again" when we were a 1 loss road favorite against Miami. Not everything has to be GOAT or shit.
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If not for the defense we wouldn't be in this game. So to answer your stupid ass question, they could get shelled and I won't give a damn because I completely realize they are the reason we were even in the Coastal title hunt this year.
But yeah, continue your agenda... It's not obvious at all.
And really, at the end of the day what the hell does it matter anyway? The bulk of our excellent class is already signed, we're already bringing in a great haul that will at worst help to bolster our depth across the board. And we're going into this game with a QB who is rumored to have been playing through a list of bad injuries who is now missing his top (and arguably the only consistent veteran) target with a running game that is struggling to put it mildly. There is a good chance our defense is going to be on the field a hell of a lot this game. If you're going into this one expecting us to hold them to anything less than a BIG number, you're gonna have a bad time.
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Sounds pretty cringe worthy but I could still think of a few hypothetical situations that would cause such a stat line and not be worthy of this damnation of the defense that you are so desperately seeking.
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Obvious trolling aside, ask me after the game because the answer isn't as simply as "x points, y yards, z turnovers". There's too many variables to tell you NOW as to if the offense/defense is accountable for the final result.
That being said:
1. give it a rest. I don't know who stick what up your rear that you've harped on the defense and Bud like you have, but obvious troll is obvious at this point.
2. this thread is set up for an immediate blame game for the defense and Bud Foster NO MATTER WHAT, WIN OR LOSE
3. (for the rest of you)
He's going to use your answers against you if you give him a concrete one now. Say we lose by 1 in a 37-36 game with a missed field goal as time expires he's going to use every answer of 35 points to say "we didn't hold them under 35 points, therefore it's entirely on the defense" when that's only part of the equation.
Or, better yet
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I won't complain too much about the D. Don't let the other team set any all-time records, and I can live with it. It's a bowl game.
If the D takes both Mason Rudolph and Justice Hill out of the game, either literally or effectively, I will be pleased with the D. Very pleased.
If we win, I'll be ecstatic.
But I'll be damned if I'm going to let the result of a bowl game that isn't a playoff game or the national championship game make me miserable. This is the last time we get to watch Hokie football until September 3, 2018. It's the last time we get to see our seniors (and possibly some underclassmen) play in the Burnt Orange and Chicago Maroon. I plan on enjoying it, cheering for the good guys, and not spending the off-season being bitter over this game against the Pokes if we lose.
Stick it in. Stick it in. Stick it in.
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I'll put it this way...Bud's D usually holds a team well below its season average, even in a loss (maybe not the QB's rushing yards). If this is not the case again, I'll be surprised.
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Been seeing this accountability topic pop up. I guess from the posts its stemming from the OP. So I'll bite with some simple logic.
The defense is accountable for every yard lost. It's that simple.
What you want to ask is what is it going to take for the Defensive staff to be on the hotseat or potentially fired. You're trying to dress it up in a more complicated statistical question but that's what you're asking.
So I'll bite again. Short of Bud Foster running out onto the field and personally Joe Theismanning the opposing QB he ain't getting fired.
Questions answered. Moving on.
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Honestly, a topic such as "What does Foster's defense need to limit Oklahoma State to have a successful game?" would have been a reasonable and interesting topic for discussion. However, the original post is written with enough sarcasm and forward-looking spite that it devolved quickly. I honestly don't understand why the former wasn't the original approach.
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Another enlightened productive response. Is there a problem? Your smartass response adds nothing to the thread - which is your chief "complaint" about others- they don't post the way you want them to. So just ignore the thread or at least don't pretend to be the enlightened board police when you reply with snark like above.
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LOL- my premise was asking "Is the defense ever accountable".. You trying to answer that by talking about how good recruiting is, crediting Bud single-handedly for getting us to this bowl, among other things is all one needs to know. If digging a grave is proving my point about how defensive some fans are of the defense, then yeah I dug my own grave.
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If you had the guts to post "Bud gets a pass no matter what", the thread would have been a lot shorter. Some posters were intelligent enough to answer the post with a real answer.
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Now that the original post wording has been changed, people who missed it may not understand why dcw has been given the asshat award. Kinda like deleting a tweet.
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Ok, now I'll bite. If the OP is going in that direction, then one must also ask: what if Foster opted to join Spurrier at UF after our Natty appearance, or joined Dabo at Clemson (or whatever)? How many NC's would he have won by now? How many DCs of The Year would he have won (not nominated, won) to the point that they would've renamed the award after him? How many offers would he have received to transfer to the NFL? How many top 5 HC positions would he have been offered by now which ALL leads back to how good would we have been without him these past 2 decades? There. End thread.
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Where did I say that Bud was not a great defensive coordinator? I was speaking to the predictable fans- many of them- that, no matter how his unit plays will blame the offense for not keeping OSU off the field. The responses in this thread and how defensive they are, are a clear indication of whom I am referring to. I never commented on how great Bud was or wasn't. And answering "Bud is never at fault" is perfectly fine too, if you feel that way- like clearly some do.
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The strangest part is that you think you're having this big "GOTCHA!" moment where in reality you're just trolling a topic that you have beaten like a dead horse. This is what your third, fourth, maybe even fifth unique topic over the past season attempting to shit on the defense and "expose" the fans who blindly support them? The other issue is that a lot of people originally typed out long and thoughtful responses to your first and maybe even second threads like this, but at this point it is clear you're just looking for the schadenfreude if/when we have a really bad defensive game so you can appear right. The reality is that there have been a lot of games where the offense did hurt the defense a lot, the offense and defense can have a huge impact on the other's performance throughout the course of a game. So when/if the defense shits the bed eventually you'll be right and feel like you were right all along. However, the reality is that you will be much more similar to the guy who calls the "big upset" against Alabama every time they play a big game and celebrate your genius the 1/15 times you were right.
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Rosier having a career day and his best game of the year against a P5 team is a fact... not crapping. GT completing 2 passes for 180 yards and 2 TDs is a fact, not crapping.
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I don't have a problem with Bud. My rhetorical question is not a problem with Bud. Like I said, I have no problem if you or anyone else's answer is " the defense is never at fault"- I have no issue with that- just say it.
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The defense is sometimes at fault. The defense is normally not at fault. And sometimes we actually win the football game. This is not that complicated.
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There's a difference between admitting the defense played like shit and making a snarky, sarcastic post about it after every loss. You can call it all facts if you want, but as one of the more snarky and sarcastic commenters here, I'm gonna call the kettle black
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I foresee an OSU copy of ECU's throw it up deep and let the receivers make a play. That is Part 1. Their Part 2 will be to chip-shot us and try to wear out our D before reverting back to Part 1. Bud better have 'em ready.
To a poster above, if I understood correctly to what you were referring, the game against Houston in which Don Strock passed for 527 yards resulted in a 27-27 tie and not a loss. (If I remember what I think I saw that day. I might just be old now.)
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real question: at what point is OSU's defense at fault if we win in a shootout? Or is it OSU's offense that's at fault if that happens? What about their equipment managers? Surely they deserve some of the blame. No no no, I got it. It's the S&C coach's fault.
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I dunno man the equipment manager has gotten a perennial pass in Stillwater for as long as I can remember, and I get that, but at some point enough is enough.
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Don't know... will their fans put blinders on and ignore their defenses performance if Josh Jackson goes 48-52, 565 passing with 4 TDs? I doubt their fans would say.. welp... can't blame the defense
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And I mean really.... 43 down votes for calling someone who is an idiot an idiot is a little harsh... That is what pretty much everyone here who is getting legs has said, just with a few more words. I just like to be efficient.
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*The scene is in a darkened living room. Some people call it a den, I've never understood the difference. Arnie's wife does, but like me, he doesn't give a shit and still refers to it as a living room. His wife, curled up on the couch, watching another tantalizing episode of Jeopardy!, Arnie in his beloved recliner, scrolling thru TKP.*
*Sees comment*
*lightly gasps*
"What is it, Arnold?"
"Nothing, Susan...just reading some damn truth."
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Think they're gonna have to dial up blitzes, and keep the DEs aggressively containing the RB. A couple TOs would really help shake the confidence. The offensive we are facing looks beyond legit.
Pounding the crap out of the RB and the QB feels good, may help over the course of the game to limit their effectiveness, and may be the only shot we have at keeping it under 35.
Hopefully Bud can pull some magic schemes, but with the way the O has played, the amount of tape the opponent has on our offensive woes, I think we're gonna need some bud-fu magic. I think we keep our NFL early entrants from last year, we'd be in a higher bowl, and this would be a celebratory magic game with multiple VT NFL prospects showing the future of Fuente e Foster. I am hoping it still happens, but if I had to bet my money we're gonna have to wait for that game and keep the faith for a bit.
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The defense didn't fumble twice in the red zone. The defense didn't bobble a pass resulting in a pick at the OSU 29. The defense did hold OSU on downs twice in the 4th quarter when the offense couldn't get it's shit together.
So yes, the defense gets a gawd dammed pass, DCWilson.
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Waiting for the topic of this thread to be changed to... FOSTER'S DEFENSE LIMITS OKLAHOMA STATE'S REALLY DAMN GOOD OFFENSE AND DESPITE LOSS, PLAYS SUCCESSFUL GAME
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I only saw this post with the updated title and scrolled through the comments and was seriously confused... I now get it. I had some tears, I had some laughs.
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My hats off to the defense on Thursday- I was at the game, the defense played very well. No issues with the defense at all. Game plan was solid, they confused Rudolph a bit early I thought. Fine game for them. Difference in the game was mistakes/turnovers from the VT offense. In a 9 point game, you fumble on the goal line, tip a key 3rd down conversion that turns into an INT, and fumble again on a critical 4th down, that was the difference. Kudos to the defense in this one.
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To piggyback on this, I would say that both offensive and defensive sides were COACHED well, but players had execution issues. Offensive gameplan was masterful, the fumble is on the QB/RB that have run that play 1000 times in practice.
Sometimes, you lose to a better team. That's what I felt happened Thursday.
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The original post has been changed, and it seems some of the posts have been deleted. Not sure how I would interpret it now... you should probably be thankful.
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Comments
Ironic that this is posted the same morning as By the (Advanced) Numbers
It is hard to set a simple statistic as the measuring stick before a game. But here is my best attempt:
OSU scores less than 20 points (on offense)=Great game by defense
OSU scores less than 28 points (on offense)=Good game by defense
OSU scores more than 35 points (on offense)=Disappointing game by defense
I think if the defense gives up more than 36 yards Bud should be fired and everyone on defense should lose their scholarships. Happy?
haha. I was asking a serious question. Our offense finished 60th in the country this year. I don't see us holding the ball for 40 minutes and putting up 50 points on offense.
Offense was 62nd in points/game, defense was 5th. Of course we should slag on the defense not being held accountable.
Thats the question... at WHAT point is did the defense play a bad game against OSU? 50 points allowed?
I cannot see any way to possibly judge that in a vacuum before the game. The offense never gets past midfield, and turns the ball over 5 times, and the defense gives up several, including some awful calls from the officials, and I could still say they were not to blame. The defense gets good field position, but gives up a TD on every drive, and its a bad game, even if they only score 28 because our offense ground it out with the run and denied them the ball.
There is probably a points per drive metric that would do it, but I am not going to bother to put the math into figuring out what that is for a hypothetical. Ask me after the game and I won't have to do math to tell you if we won because the defense was awesome, the offense kicked ass, special teams went all #25 on them, or all of the above.
I think it comes down to a certain degree of subjectivity. How often does Rudolph get hit? Do we get a key 3 and out or turnover? Does the defense appear to hold up their end of the bargain? Does the defense put up an epic 4 down stand at the goalline to seal the win?
500 yards passing won't mean much if the ball doesn't cross the goalline. Before anyone says that can't happen, when Don Strock set the single game passing mark with 527 yards in 1972, he did so without throwing a touchdown (which has to be some sort of NCAA record).
Virginia Tech lost that game. If Rudolph throws for 500 without a TD, Ok State will leave empty handed.
FYI We actually tied that game against Houston somehow after Strock set another record that day by throwing 5 interceptions.
When I saw the word "accountability" in the title of this thread I knew who posted it
Awesome, I'll mark you down for blaming the offense, no matter the score. Thanks
Yeah if we lose 77-76 I want Cornelsen's head on a plate
Fair, because if the VT defense gives up 77 points, I'm sure it was all of the 3 and outs from the VT offense that was the problem.
I hope you had a Merry Christmas... But you are an idiot.
I may be an idiot, but I am smart enough to pick up sarcasm. Merry Christmas
I understand the sarcasm in the post I directly replied to... You are an idiot because you seem to have a legitimate and reasonable question that you keep asking about defensive performance and standards but your demeanor, attitude and tone constantly result in arguments rather than discussions... If you weren't an idiot you might have more productive interactions.
Want to disagree? Fine. Disagree forcefully? Also fine. But don't turn this into a schoolyard name-calling contest.
You could have answered the original question with a thoughtful response, or just ignored the thread. Instead you post just to call me names- which is a VERY "productive interaction" I tell ya.
I wasn't hoping for a productive interaction with you, it is clear from your previous posts (here and elsewhere) not to set such lofty goals. My only intention was to let you know that I think you are an idiot. It has been accomplished.
Calling someone an idiot after being specifically warned by the forum moderator not to do that isn't exactly building your case...
Maybe he's an idiot? /s
Nah just stubborn...
Oh the
someone explain, I am an idiot
an "E" made of iron. Oh the "Iron E" ("irony")
Additionally, while technically not irony, I believe he's referring to the fact that my post calling someone an idiot (to make a joke) has a substantially positive score while the person referenced was heavily downvoted for name calling.
dcwilson - what is your threshold/number for this game?
If OSU's offense has to drive the field reasonably- meaning they don't get gifted with short fields all game like Tennessee did in Bristol, I think if they score 35 points with over 550 yards, that it was a bad day for the VT defense. Regardless of what our offense does.
I expect 35 and 550.
This is very likely the best offense Bud has ever faced.
Oklahoma State has the third most efficient offense in the country right now. It will be key to limit the number of plays they have. Obviously, part of this is forcing their offense into 3rd & Long, and putting their offense in difficult positions, but part of this is also a field position battle (special teams pinning them deep and Offense not turning the ball over), and our offense being efficient (staying on the field, and scoring).
I'd say any score in the 30's and the defense did their job, nothing more, nothing less. 20's or less and you can blame the offense if we lose, 40's or more and blame the defense.
This makes sense.
If they score more than 40, we are gonna lose. I suppose you can say they know this going in, but offense ties in to the defense so it would be naive to just say defense is accountable for that.
Why do we need to predetermine criteria for being happy or upset for a game? It just seems like that would be setting yourself up to be disappointed.
What's the threshold for accountability on posting stupid thread topics? Good grief, the game is 2 days away and you're ready to pull out the knives to stab the defense, the unit that carried us through the year, in the back?
GTFOH
I threw out a hypothetical question.. I didn't stab the defense in the back..I asked hypothetically what a bad game for them would be. People that get defensive over that are usually the ones to give the defense a pass.
give the defense a pass
Well there it is.
This is not something that can be determined beforehand. This entire post is worthless and not worth stirring up the whole community with negativity.
So you are not willing to say today that OSU going for 625 total yards, 55 points, and 200 on the ground is a bad defensive performance?
Why are you so damn insistent on attempting to focus on the negatives? Our defense has been stellar this season, so it's more than a little unfair to start clamoring "how much are you willing to see before you say they suck". This strikes me as the guys at the bar who went full blown red faced rage spouting off "there goes that Bud Foster defense again" when we were a 1 loss road favorite against Miami. Not everything has to be GOAT or shit.
So your answer to the original question is A LOT of points and yards. Thanks
If not for the defense we wouldn't be in this game. So to answer your stupid ass question, they could get shelled and I won't give a damn because I completely realize they are the reason we were even in the Coastal title hunt this year.
But yeah, continue your agenda... It's not obvious at all.
And really, at the end of the day what the hell does it matter anyway? The bulk of our excellent class is already signed, we're already bringing in a great haul that will at worst help to bolster our depth across the board. And we're going into this game with a QB who is rumored to have been playing through a list of bad injuries who is now missing his top (and arguably the only consistent veteran) target with a running game that is struggling to put it mildly. There is a good chance our defense is going to be on the field a hell of a lot this game. If you're going into this one expecting us to hold them to anything less than a BIG number, you're gonna have a bad time.
If OSU scores 55, puts up 625 yards 200 on the ground and we score 56, then our defense did enough and I really dgaf about their performance.
Well said. The team plays the game. I could care less what the score is and how many yards they have if we win. What else matters in the end?
1000% This!!!
Sounds pretty cringe worthy but I could still think of a few hypothetical situations that would cause such a stat line and not be worthy of this damnation of the defense that you are so desperately seeking.
Obvious trolling aside, ask me after the game because the answer isn't as simply as "x points, y yards, z turnovers". There's too many variables to tell you NOW as to if the offense/defense is accountable for the final result.
That being said:
1. give it a rest. I don't know who stick what up your rear that you've harped on the defense and Bud like you have, but obvious troll is obvious at this point.
2. this thread is set up for an immediate blame game for the defense and Bud Foster NO MATTER WHAT, WIN OR LOSE
3. (for the rest of you)
He's going to use your answers against you if you give him a concrete one now. Say we lose by 1 in a 37-36 game with a missed field goal as time expires he's going to use every answer of 35 points to say "we didn't hold them under 35 points, therefore it's entirely on the defense" when that's only part of the equation.
Or, better yet
First time I check TKP today. And I see DC already shitting on the defense 2 days before the game even starts. How about you wait until after the game
This whole forum needs more Jackie Moon.
I'll play.
As long as the D doesn't let:
I won't complain too much about the D. Don't let the other team set any all-time records, and I can live with it. It's a bowl game.
If the D takes both Mason Rudolph and Justice Hill out of the game, either literally or effectively, I will be pleased with the D. Very pleased.
If we win, I'll be ecstatic.
But I'll be damned if I'm going to let the result of a bowl game that isn't a playoff game or the national championship game make me miserable. This is the last time we get to watch Hokie football until September 3, 2018. It's the last time we get to see our seniors (and possibly some underclassmen) play in the Burnt Orange and Chicago Maroon. I plan on enjoying it, cheering for the good guys, and not spending the off-season being bitter over this game against the Pokes if we lose.
Stick it in. Stick it in. Stick it in.
I'll put it this way...Bud's D usually holds a team well below its season average, even in a loss (maybe not the QB's rushing yards). If this is not the case again, I'll be surprised.
ABANDON THREAD.gif
We'll win as a team or loose as a team...end of story ....
Anything to see here or can I go back to haulin' oats?
HOAT jamming in the barn?
Been seeing this accountability topic pop up. I guess from the posts its stemming from the OP. So I'll bite with some simple logic.
The defense is accountable for every yard lost. It's that simple.
What you want to ask is what is it going to take for the Defensive staff to be on the hotseat or potentially fired. You're trying to dress it up in a more complicated statistical question but that's what you're asking.
So I'll bite again. Short of Bud Foster running out onto the field and personally Joe Theismanning the opposing QB he ain't getting fired.
Questions answered. Moving on.
Some shit fan I am. Not crapping all over the only consistent top ten unit keeping us relevant for the past 30 years.
But let's talk about it. Hypothetically, just because.
And I get that... (no I don't, but some troll posted it a month ago so let's just roll with it, shall we?!)
Yeah. Yeah, that's the spirit.
Honestly, a topic such as "What does Foster's defense need to limit Oklahoma State to have a successful game?" would have been a reasonable and interesting topic for discussion. However, the original post is written with enough sarcasm and forward-looking spite that it devolved quickly. I honestly don't understand why the former wasn't the original approach.
I see this is your first encounter with dcwilson40. Quite an accomplishment, you always remember your first.
Another enlightened productive response. Is there a problem? Your smartass response adds nothing to the thread - which is your chief "complaint" about others- they don't post the way you want them to. So just ignore the thread or at least don't pretend to be the enlightened board police when you reply with snark like above.
Watching you dig your own grave in no less than the 3rd thread of this type in recent memory that the populace in here widely hated.
You're trolling the board, and you're not even being clever about it. We're just using this as our opportunity to tell you to cut it out.
And if you don't like snarky replies to shitposts like this thread, you're on the wrong website.
LOL- my premise was asking "Is the defense ever accountable".. You trying to answer that by talking about how good recruiting is, crediting Bud single-handedly for getting us to this bowl, among other things is all one needs to know. If digging a grave is proving my point about how defensive some fans are of the defense, then yeah I dug my own grave.
Your original premise was shit, and deserved to be treated as such.
If you had the guts to post "Bud gets a pass no matter what", the thread would have been a lot shorter. Some posters were intelligent enough to answer the post with a real answer.
Just STOP it DC you're becoming the most hated person on TKP
He's moving up the list but bender still sitting at number 1 by a huge margin. The way DC replies to people is very benderesque though
Now that the original post wording has been changed, people who missed it may not understand why dcw has been given the asshat award. Kinda like deleting a tweet.
Ok, now I'll bite. If the OP is going in that direction, then one must also ask: what if Foster opted to join Spurrier at UF after our Natty appearance, or joined Dabo at Clemson (or whatever)? How many NC's would he have won by now? How many DCs of The Year would he have won (not nominated, won) to the point that they would've renamed the award after him? How many offers would he have received to transfer to the NFL? How many top 5 HC positions would he have been offered by now which ALL leads back to how good would we have been without him these past 2 decades? There. End thread.
Where did I say that Bud was not a great defensive coordinator? I was speaking to the predictable fans- many of them- that, no matter how his unit plays will blame the offense for not keeping OSU off the field. The responses in this thread and how defensive they are, are a clear indication of whom I am referring to. I never commented on how great Bud was or wasn't. And answering "Bud is never at fault" is perfectly fine too, if you feel that way- like clearly some do.
Hate to say it, but you kinda pulled it on yourself. Thankfully, French has thoroughly and totally answered the question.
Fine, but I never commented on how great foster was or wasn't in my OP. I have said many times he is the best in the business.
The strangest part is that you think you're having this big "GOTCHA!" moment where in reality you're just trolling a topic that you have beaten like a dead horse. This is what your third, fourth, maybe even fifth unique topic over the past season attempting to shit on the defense and "expose" the fans who blindly support them? The other issue is that a lot of people originally typed out long and thoughtful responses to your first and maybe even second threads like this, but at this point it is clear you're just looking for the schadenfreude if/when we have a really bad defensive game so you can appear right. The reality is that there have been a lot of games where the offense did hurt the defense a lot, the offense and defense can have a huge impact on the other's performance throughout the course of a game. So when/if the defense shits the bed eventually you'll be right and feel like you were right all along. However, the reality is that you will be much more similar to the guy who calls the "big upset" against Alabama every time they play a big game and celebrate your genius the 1/15 times you were right.
No, not really..but you are on a roll! Awesome
Good response. Similar to your responses in the other annoying troll threads you've created on this topic.
You can read my history. I have not posted any unique threads "crapping" on bud and the defense - but carry on.
Your topic about Bud getting the perennial pass, there are some real gem comments in this one.
This title of this topic is about the number of yards we gave up to GT... so that makes two before this one.
Neither "crapped" on our defense... and the second one I clearly criticized the offense.
you must have a weird definition of the verb "crap"
Rosier having a career day and his best game of the year against a P5 team is a fact... not crapping. GT completing 2 passes for 180 yards and 2 TDs is a fact, not crapping.
Ok, I don't "disagree" with that. "Everything" in your posts and comments are "facts" and you "don't have a problem" with Bud and the defense.
I don't have a problem with Bud. My rhetorical question is not a problem with Bud. Like I said, I have no problem if you or anyone else's answer is " the defense is never at fault"- I have no issue with that- just say it.
The defense is sometimes at fault. The defense is normally not at fault. And sometimes we actually win the football game. This is not that complicated.
There's a difference between admitting the defense played like shit and making a snarky, sarcastic post about it after every loss. You can call it all facts if you want, but as one of the more snarky and sarcastic commenters here, I'm gonna call the kettle black
You so fucking clearly have a problem with that.
I foresee an OSU copy of ECU's throw it up deep and let the receivers make a play. That is Part 1. Their Part 2 will be to chip-shot us and try to wear out our D before reverting back to Part 1. Bud better have 'em ready.
To a poster above, if I understood correctly to what you were referring, the game against Houston in which Don Strock passed for 527 yards resulted in a 27-27 tie and not a loss. (If I remember what I think I saw that day. I might just be old now.)
real question: at what point is OSU's defense at fault if we win in a shootout? Or is it OSU's offense that's at fault if that happens? What about their equipment managers? Surely they deserve some of the blame. No no no, I got it. It's the S&C coach's fault.
I dunno man the equipment manager has gotten a perennial pass in Stillwater for as long as I can remember, and I get that, but at some point enough is enough.
If nothing else, they should be fired for these helmets:
Don't know... will their fans put blinders on and ignore their defenses performance if Josh Jackson goes 48-52, 565 passing with 4 TDs? I doubt their fans would say.. welp... can't blame the defense
Can someone do a quick analysis and see if this is the most downvotes in one thread in TKP history?
Not even close. dcwilson40 has -146 in this thread, and if you include the -43 from jsumm88, it's still only -189
I believe we've had single posts that have surpassed that number.
??
??
I think its Socalbuck2014 in the Ohio State thread from 2015 where he said Brewer deserved a broken collarbone. That guy can still go fuck himself.
[Captain Jack Sparrow "ah yes" gif] Sorry, couldn't find it.
And I mean really.... 43 down votes for calling someone who is an idiot an idiot is a little harsh... That is what pretty much everyone here who is getting legs has said, just with a few more words. I just like to be efficient.
Oh, I'm guessing you got more than 43. Some of us upvoted you because we agreed.
I think most downvoted you because you had been specifically told not to do it and you went ahead and did it anyway, not because they disagreed.
This thread:
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I miss Arnie
You are 100% correct
*The scene is in a darkened living room. Some people call it a den, I've never understood the difference. Arnie's wife does, but like me, he doesn't give a shit and still refers to it as a living room. His wife, curled up on the couch, watching another tantalizing episode of Jeopardy!, Arnie in his beloved recliner, scrolling thru TKP.*
*Sees comment*
*lightly gasps*
"What is it, Arnold?"
"Nothing, Susan...just reading some damn truth."
Reading through some of these comments like
371 passing, 219 rushing, 24 points...know what we did to the last B12 team with these stats...oh and...
via GIPHY
Think they're gonna have to dial up blitzes, and keep the DEs aggressively containing the RB. A couple TOs would really help shake the confidence. The offensive we are facing looks beyond legit.
Pounding the crap out of the RB and the QB feels good, may help over the course of the game to limit their effectiveness, and may be the only shot we have at keeping it under 35.
Hopefully Bud can pull some magic schemes, but with the way the O has played, the amount of tape the opponent has on our offensive woes, I think we're gonna need some bud-fu magic. I think we keep our NFL early entrants from last year, we'd be in a higher bowl, and this would be a celebratory magic game with multiple VT NFL prospects showing the future of Fuente e Foster. I am hoping it still happens, but if I had to bet my money we're gonna have to wait for that game and keep the faith for a bit.
The defense didn't fumble twice in the red zone. The defense didn't bobble a pass resulting in a pick at the OSU 29. The defense did hold OSU on downs twice in the 4th quarter when the offense couldn't get it's shit together.
So yes, the defense gets a gawd dammed pass, DCWilson.
Thank you. Fuck this shit on blaming the defense when the defense was top 5 IN THE FUCKING COUNTRY this year.
If anyone is to blame it's just inexperience on the offensive side of the ball. Future is bright and this off season is going to drag on.
The defense didn't overthrow a running free receiver by 5 yards.
Exactly what they did tonight, quite and impressive preformance, go back under rock
What they did
Waiting for the topic of this thread to be changed to... FOSTER'S DEFENSE LIMITS OKLAHOMA STATE'S REALLY DAMN GOOD OFFENSE AND DESPITE LOSS, PLAYS SUCCESSFUL GAME
More Cowbell
Wow, dcwilson is all the way down to 70 legs!
Now 20. I know you aren't supposed to feed the trolls, but this board went all Billy Goat Gruff!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO-5KgcfHmI
I only saw this post with the updated title and scrolled through the comments and was seriously confused... I now get it. I had some tears, I had some laughs.
My hats off to the defense on Thursday- I was at the game, the defense played very well. No issues with the defense at all. Game plan was solid, they confused Rudolph a bit early I thought. Fine game for them. Difference in the game was mistakes/turnovers from the VT offense. In a 9 point game, you fumble on the goal line, tip a key 3rd down conversion that turns into an INT, and fumble again on a critical 4th down, that was the difference. Kudos to the defense in this one.
To piggyback on this, I would say that both offensive and defensive sides were COACHED well, but players had execution issues. Offensive gameplan was masterful, the fumble is on the QB/RB that have run that play 1000 times in practice.
Sometimes, you lose to a better team. That's what I felt happened Thursday.
Would yall believe that this is the first time I have seen this thread since its inception a week ago?
The original post has been changed, and it seems some of the posts have been deleted. Not sure how I would interpret it now... you should probably be thankful.