Ask TKP: If you could pick one of the following positive outcomes from VT sports history...

...which one of them would you choose for remaking history?

  • Michael Vick turns the correct way on 4th and goal early in the National Championship against Florida State, scoring a touchdown and changing the early momentum of the game.
  • The referee at FedEx field chooses to keep his flag in his pocket, declining to call offensive pass interference against the Hokies in their contest against Southern California.
  • Virginia Tech successfully recovers the onside kick and enters victory formation against Matt Ryan and the Boston College Eagles.
  • The Hokies' offensive coordinator chooses to continue running the ball down Kansas' throat in the second half of the Orange Bowl
  • The PAC-12 replay official correctly concludes that Danny Coale did indeed catch that ball, ensuring victory over Michigan in the Sugar Bowl.
  • Ahmed Hill hits the buzzer-beater against Duke in the Sweet Sixteen, propelling the Hokies to the Elite Eight.
  • Some addons:

  • Tyrod Taylor converts a third down with two minutes remaining against Boise State, allowing the Hokies to run out the clock for victory, also avoiding the letdown against JMU five days later.
  • Ernest Wilford completes the catch on the two point conversion against Miami.
  • Seth Greenberg offers the son of one of Tech's greatest basketball players, Steph Curry.

Anything not on the list, just add in the comments.

Forums: 
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

Only one of those has a direct impact to a potential national title.

So that one

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Two, really. The first and last options. Admittedly, beating Duke at hoops would still have left us 3 wins away from the title, but it's still a direct line.

β€œYou got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

The tip would have sent the game to overtime. The final score was 75-73.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

He is referring to the 3 before the tip that would have likely won the game.

Outlaw was the one who shot that last 3-pointer so it'd be really weird if "Ahmed Hill hits the buzzer-beater against Duke in the Sweet Sixteen, propelling the Hokies to the Elite Eight" actually meant the Outlaw shot.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Incorrect - they both shot 3's. Hill air-balled it from the corner.

Still would have to win 3 more games against teams that proved to be better than Duke in the Tournament. You flip the switch on that first one, and... we have a title, nothing more to do. so that one

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Now hold on. You can't say that with one early touchdown against Florida State "we have a title" any more than you can say that taking Duke to OT would give VT a basketball title.

That being said, because of the stakes of the game I agree that's the play on this list I'd want to switch.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I believe that had we won a BcS championship in '99, Beamer would have still made all the same mistakes later in his career that led to the eventual stagnation of the program. Indeed, winning it all would have been further proof in his mind that his strategy of narrowing rather than expanding our recruiting footprint was the way to go. So I don't see a major difference in the quality of recruiting compared to what we saw after that Sugar Bowl as it stands. I don't see a win against FSU changing other major decisions that were made shortly thereafter either. Bustle still leaves, we still get Rogers at QB coach, there's still unreasonable loyalty to Stiney. The only thing I can think of is maybe we get into a bidding war for Beamer against a way bigger program than UNC, and possibly lose, but even that feels unlikely.

So give me an onsides kick recovery against BC. I think making a championship game twice in 8 years would do more for the program than a single national championship. It would have shown we were a serious contender at the national level who can somewhat regularly contend for the big hardware.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Agreed. It would have been awesome if we had won that title game, but IMHO, once we got into the ACC, I really started to sense a stagnation and complacency creep into the program. Coming in and winning Bobby Bowden's conference in year one, a conference we had longed to be in forever, gave us a false sense that we had arrived I think. Winning/competing for the ACC, 10 wins, and beat UVA became the mantra. Certain facets of the program were basically put on autopilot from there on out.

I think it would be tough to assume that we'd have been slotted into the natty that season ahead of a 2-loss LSU team that absolutely ransacked us earlier that year.

EDIT: drinking now, didn't see the other replies below.

Beating BC in 07 would put us in the title game right?

We would still have had to win it.

Plus, after we got smoked at LSU we probably would have been jumped in the final poll by them regardless.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I think you forget just how much the entire nation was pulling for us that season. It was absolutely irrational (though understandable) that people who never watched a down of VT football wanted to see us go on a run that season. The computers would have had us at number 2, because by that point the computers weren't allowed to use margin of victory in their rankings. And I think there was enough human sentimentality to explain away the dismantling of our program in Baton Rouge for enough pollsters to keep us close enough for the computer rankings to tip us over the finish line.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

pollsters already punished us that year. Many had us ranked 5th or lower just to ensure that LSU got in over us. There absolutely was a push to make sure that game in Baton Rouge mattered, and they were going to manipulate the system to ensure it happened.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Can I instead pick something from the Boise St game to make us win? I think a win there puts us in a more competitive spot, stomps JMU, goes on to an undefeated season. Vie with Oregon and Auburn for a shot at the Natty?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I don't think so. I think the jmu loss gave them the fire to turn the season around. If they start undefeated, they get in their own heads and lose a stupid one somewhere

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

This is a popular opinion, but I'm not sure I agree with it. It's very possible that the real issue with the 2010 squad was that the young oline just needed time to gel, which would have happened with playing time regardless of the outcome of the games.

And that JMU loss I suspect REALLY hurt us on the recruiting trail, even if the rest of season went well. That year's recruiting class was noticeably down compared to the years prior, and I suspect probably laid the roots of what would become the inevitable downturn of the team 2 years later.

I'll take Peter Warrick isn't allowed to plead down to misdemeanor petty theft FTW.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

son of a bitch

15 Straight

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

This is the correct answer.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Thisthisthisthis

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

This

Bowden and the NCAA grow a backbone and Peter Warrick doesn't play the rest of the 99 season after getting arrested.

15 Straight

If you are phrasing these as though we win all of the games as result, then the Vick run obviously. Otherwise, the BC onside kick because that is the only one that guarantees the outcome. For the first two and the Orange Bowl, who knows how they turn out and for the last two there was more game to be played. My main takeaway is that this hypothetical makes me very sad.

Both with the assumption that we'd win the game, I pick Vick and a Natty first, then second pick is no offensive pass interference and beating SC.

I like to think that if we win that game the recruiting advantages of doing so tip the scales for all those future matchups.

I had one all typed out but then I got bitter and decided to delete it.

My first impression was MV7, but that was too early in the game to guarantee a Natty. Cuz god knows we've never watched a Hokie football team choke away an early lead.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Danny Coale because that was a catch dammit!

But Vick could have gotten a National championship.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Vick's the closest one to getting us a natty, which is the only thing that would raise our program's prestige by any significant amount.

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

I have two semi-related alternatives

Greenberg doesn't say "You've got to be an idiot to leave VT out"

and

Greenberg offers Curry a scholarship right off the bat

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

First, I'm not sure he said that and secondly, are you suggesting anything he said had any bearing on the actions of the selection committee?

You're right- Greenberg actually said, "certifiably insane." Probably safe to say that certainly didn't do VT any favors, though it seems that Ron Wellman of Wake Forest being head of the committee and not having much interest in supporting VT or even basic knowledge about our resume was more significant.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Are we doing that based on what we know now or then?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Only one of these about me cry (Danny), but I think I'll reluctantly take the Boston College game. Home crowd, Thursday night (when it really meant something), and an ultimately ACCCG winning team. Just...damn. I threw things after that game.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

I threw a bunch of shit in Pritchard after that game. Also took one the best hot showers of my life, damn that rain, and fuck Matt Ryan.

I'd say the Vick one but gimme that Matt Ryan recovered onside kick. I think we win the natty that year, that Ohio state team was hella bad

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

I think we win the natty that year, that Ohio state team was hella bad

From a purely football perspective, the national sports media would lose their collective shit if hypothetical 12-1 Virginia Tech was chosen over 11-2 LSU for the championship game. LSU dog walked us that year.

IDGAS, the CPUs would have given us such an advantage (almost certainly #1 across the board) and it would've been difficult for the voters to keep us low enough to keep us out.

I believe we were the #1 team per the computers that year even with the BC loss. Computers loved us for some reason.

They just hated us less than everyone else, it was a shit show year.

#1 overall, but not #1 in all of them. There was still room for growth in our CPU ranking component.

We were #1 in 3 of the 6 (Massey, Sagarin, and Wolfe), #2 in Colley, and #4 in both A&H and Billingsley. I'm fairly confident that with one additional win we would have been #1 across the board, which would have given us an extra 0.04 points. Also, that would have meant jumping LSU in 2 of them, knocking them down an extra 0.02, for a total gain of 0.06. All we would've needed from the voters was an average vote of 3.7 or so in both polls (as it was we had an average vote of about 5.4 from the Harris and 5.3 from the coaches) and we would've been ahead of LSU in overall BCS. Considering that 1-loss OSU and their weaksauce schedule was even above 2-loss LSU in both polls, I think it's fair to say that most people would've put us at #3, keeping us behind LSU because of H2H but ahead of all the other 2-loss teams.

Final 2007 BCS Standings: https://web.archive.org/web/20091123032919/http://msn.foxsports.com/id/8...

That's fine, we also had the "were a different team than the one that played them at the beginning of the season" I think there wouldve been more calls to kick osu out than us. Osu was soooo fucking bad that year.

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

I think we win the natty that year, that Ohio state team was hella bad

Seriously, this again? We had fucking Stinespring-Newsome-O'Cain. Would it have been competitive? Sure, absolutely. But OSU wasn't bad enough to lose to the three headed monstrosity that was our offensive staff.

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

Counterpoint 2007 Defense was the GOAT: Xavier Adibi, Vince Hall, Macho Harris, Brandon Flowers, Kam Chancellor, Chris Ellis, Orion Martin, Carlton Powell and Cody Grimm.

And we also had this guy:

Not enough to keep anOSUs offense out of the EZ. As the level & quality of competition increases, so does (& did) the statistical likelihood that teams would score on us (no matter how GOAT our unit was). Also, counterpoint to counterpoint, '05 Defense could make a case for GOAT.

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

Dude, that OSU team had Todd Boeckman at quarterback. Todd Boeckman hasn't even heard of Todd Boeckman. I think we'd have had a shot

edited to add that in any case we probably get rematched with LSU that year and well

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

While I agree on your points about Todd Boeckman & having a shot, I still conclude that having Stiney-Newsome-O'Cain automatically reduces & practically nullifies a W. That said, I also agree about a rematch with LSU where I think we would play better, but still ultimately lose (& by double digits).

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

In my lifetime of watching Tech football (born in 94) I've only seen one season where we had a shot of making a national championship game and that was 2007. Matt Ryan stole it from us and I will never forget it. Give me the onside kick...#FuckMattRyan

Touchdown Tech!!!

If beating Duke meant beating UVa in the national championship game, I'll take that option.

I'll also throw in "wish the team would've made it to the stadium vs Miami in 2005"

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Vick running the right way on 4th and 1. Matt Ryan game. Wilford catches the conversion.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Wilford catches the conversion

This is also a big one

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

I would tend to agree, but I doubt OT would've treated us nicely.

Also there was like 6 minutes left in regulation

Going 0-4 from Auburn's 2 yard line in the second quarter of the 2005 Sugar Bowl.

Option 2 &/or 5. I've already created a "What Ifs" thread for option #1.

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

Some good adds here:

- Converting third down against Boise State with 2 min left
- Offering Stephon Curry a scholarship
- Wilford catches the conversion

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I'll go with Frank kicks the FG on the 1st possession in the nattie and doesn't play such a high risk game plan (see fake fg) - we win.
Offer Steph Curry - changes everything that is/was VT basketball.
Wilford catches that ball - because I wanted that moment.
And we get the onside kick - better yet we get a 1st down earlier and it doesn't matter.

Yeah that's 4 - I don't care

I don't fault Greenberg for not offering Steph, everyone else missed out on him as well. I really wished his Hokie alum parents could have just convinced him to take that walk on spot though.πŸ˜•

Is it really their task to try and convince him to do that? I don't think it is. I absolutely fault Greenberg for the BOTH Curry misses.

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

Steph wasn't a miss, he had shown nothing to anyone to justify a P5 basketball scholarship, there is a reason no P5 school offered him one.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Every other school didn't have albums as his parents. Bottom-line is following everyone else doesn't make it not a miss. It makes it worse. He did justify it - Greenberg just didn't want to be told what to do so his arrogance cost us.

The same group of people on here says star rating don't matter and cite every under recruited football player who made it big as some sort of bragging criteria for football. Why doesn't it apply to basketball - a sport we are even less likely to get recruits that everyone else wanted in the mid 2000's.

Because you have so few scholarships in basketball, and the kid signed for that spot instead of Curry was a top prospect.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Had this debate before - that signing class was terrible and Greenberg was an A hole (kids recruiting against their own coach is a key indicator) - which effectively ended his big time coaching career. This was one of many issues he had in the second half of his tenure.

It's more complicated than that though right? Yeah it seems easy to say in retrospect that Seth Curry was obviously a huge recruiting miss, but also Greenberg would have been dumb to use a scholarship on a player based on pedigree alone.

As an example, Bruce Smith's son, Alston, played here a few years ago as well. He got here on his own merit (I believe he was a 3* recruit), but he didn't end up getting much playing time. The point being, pedigree isn't necessarily a predictor of success.

I don't fault him either, I think he handled it the right way. If Steph wasn't Dell's son, he wouldn't have even received the preferred walk-on offer. Dell was listed at 6'4", look at that pick, Steph was 6'0" max and at the time was known only for his 3 pt shot. Six feet tall 3 pt specialists can be found on every high school team. As Fireman pointed out, basketball having fewer scholarships means tossing one out to every legends kid is a big risk. He gave Steph the best "prove you belong in the ACC" arrangement possible and Steph wouldn't take it.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Alabama, first game 1969, our only ever home game against those buggers. We lost 13 - 17 after I am fairly certain we were statistically better than them that day. That season we tied Florida State, lost two more by one point and two more by one TD or less to finish 4-5-1. To stretch it a bit, perhaps had we beat the Tide (not the laundry detergent) and Bear Bryant that day, we could possibly have produced that stellar season way back that could have started a change in the perception of VT football in the eyes of many of those Virginia kids who along the way left the state to play big-time football elsewhere - off the top of my head say Kenny Easley, Lawrence Taylor, Al Toon...

Just a woulda-coulda thought not on the list.

"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. " Rocky B.

Great old school addition to the list.

It pre-dates my fandom, so I didn't know about that, but it sounds like beating Bama that day could have had a big impact on VT football.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

2004 was a fun year. Give me that offensive pass interference against USC and the missed field goal vs NC State. We play for the title against Oklahoma.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I like to drink the kool-aid as much as anyone, but there were 3 other undefeated teams that year, and Auburn was the team left out. The same Auburn that we couldn't do anything against in the Sugar Bowl. Beat USC and NCSU and we're still probably left out (and that's even if we still make it through the rest of the year unscathed, as being a top-5 team tends to put a much bigger target on your back).

Went to that game. Auburn was a great team that year with Cadillac and Campbell amongst others. We had our chances (I.e dropped ball in the end zone). Our defense was legit against maybe the most talented offense in the country outside of USC. We just needed to take a few more chances on offense to get some points.

Emotionally I'd say Vick in the Championship game, although as others have said, we don't know what would've happened the rest of the game.
Rationally, I'd say offering Steph Curry because it could've potentially changed the trajectory of an entire program. But again, he wasn't a highly touted recruit, but he was legacy of VT bball's best player. At least make the offer.

I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them!

Wouldn't have done anything to elevate our program really, but I sure would love to be able to scrub our Chikfila Bowl collapse against UGA from my memory.