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FWIW, there is a pretty good number of Hokie fans here in NE Alabama. And I can guarantee I would travel to see us at Alabama (2 hrs), Vandy (1.5 hrs), Auburn (3.5 hrs), Georgia (4.5 hrs), Tennessee (4 hrs), Ole Miss (3.5 hrs), MSU (3.5 hrs). I'm 500 miles from Blacksburg- so selfishly I would love being closer to more games and more competitive games.
That should read "2004 National Championship" regarding Auburn, not 2003. Whoopsies.
Bill did a great job laying out both the pro and con arguments: http://podcasting.fia.net/6960/5024979.mp3.
So unless completely necessary, I don't think VT would see many in conference Thursday night games. I think the current SEC schools would make sure that happens, so they don't have to play on short rest.
In 2012, the SEC only has two Thursday night games, both are on Aug 30th to start the season.
It appears there has been a major increase over the last 5 years. The average revenue and expenses in 2006 were 65k and 60k, respectively. The 2011 average revenue and expenses were 95k and 80k, respectively. The SEC did something over the last 5 years that caused a precipitous increases in revenue. That's an increase of 45% revenue and 33% expenses.
Here's a quick chart of Revenue and Expense Increase for the 5 major conferences:
Conference Rev Exp
ACC 30% 30%
BigTen 30% 30%
Big12 15% 18%
Pac12 25% 20%
SEC 45% 33%
SEC schools are getting richer and the disparity is getting greater.
FSU, please go to the Big12, the only conference that's has greater increases in expenses than revenue, so VT can get in the SEC.
Wholeheartedly agree with all of the above.
Tech has football tradition. The ACC has basketball tradition. That doesn't exactly match, does it?
And remember how everyone said it would take us a while to win in the ACC, but we immediately took it over? Yeah, that's probably not going to happen in the SEC, but wouldn't you like the chance to actually play some games that mean something? I mean, other than games that just mean winning the ACC championship trophy and getting an automatic Orange Bowl bid only to get beaten by some stupid Big East team? Wouldn't you like for Tech to get the chance to prove themselves on a NATIONAL stage? Isn't the lack of national respect what we all complain about? Well this is how we get it. We go to a nationally recognized conference, work hard, and win. Winning might take a couple of years, but once the recruiting kicks in and the proper adjustments needed to compete with SEC teams are made, we'll win.
And the comment about the academics was genius. Well said. Yes, it sure would be nice not to have academics thrown spitefully back in your face.
If Kentucky came to Cassell, think how our basketball ticket sales would skyrocket! And people would be excited again.
But they won't have any cards to play except an attempt to try and make VT stay behind in the ACC to preserve UVA and the ACC. But I don't really see that happening, because I don't really think that's even a good strategy. VT and UVA will not preserve a crumbling ACC, so I'm sure that the state would rather have one school in a conference and one out than have two teams completely displaced.
The necessity for adaptation proposed in this write-up is exactly how I feel. Change is hard, but in today's athletic environment, it's a necessity. I was of the first class of VT in the ACC, and I love the conference to death, but I'm beginning to think that it may have run it's course given the recent decisions by the conference's gate keepers. In a perfect world, the conference would stay together, traditional powers would come back to prominence (until we beat them), and the ACC would solidify itself as a top-tier football conference. Now, however, I'm beginning to think that that wont happen anytime soon with current developments (Miami's uncertain future, FSU's inability to turn recruits into champions, and Tobacco road favoring basketball). It's also getting to a boiling point where we don't have the luxury of time regarding the quick progression of the new playoff model. It's eat, or be eaten. Do or die. Pick your cliche, it applies here.
No I don't think the politicians could force UVA into a package deal with VT. Like I said before, they'll have zero power when all hell breaks loose and there is no way they could force or convince a conference with absolutely no connections in our state to take VT, UVA, or both, because all they'll have are political threats but that won't really affect the funding of schools or conferences out of state, will it?
There is no SEC insider to lobby for us this time. This is a completely different situation. The state legislators don't have a SEC school in Virginia which means they don't have a SEC BOV that they can force to back VT. So the state legislators will have no part in this. They might try... but they will have zero power to do anything.
The best connection I've come up with is Gov. Nikki Haley of South Carolina. She's buds with our Governor. (He lost a bet to her on our second loss to Clemson last season... he had to send her a Virginia ham. Seriously.) But that is really stretching it. Don't really think Bob is going to call up Nikki and ask her to get SC's BOV to support VT to the SEC... If anything, she'll be pressing the SC BOV to back her alma mater Clemson's move to the SEC if the ACC crumbles.
I will disagree with your last statement. Mark Warner did us a solid, not UVA. If there had been no political (read: state funding) pressure, UVA would have never backed us.
If it expands to 16, they're going to need to schedule differently. Especially if super-conferences are on the horizon. I think Thursday nights may just become a niche for VT. It's obviously favored by ESPN now, no reason to think it wouldn't continue. You also have to figure that SEC games sell out a lot easier than ACC ones. Away games may not be as easy to get tickets for as they once were. Traveling won't be as easy, but that's the price you pay for prime time scheduling and marquis match ups. I love the luxury of being able to occupy Duke and other stadiums, but I'm just as happy with watching big time match-ups against Auburn and other SEC teams each year on TV. Makes for some exciting possibilities. Also, money.
Anyone remember the LSU game in 2002? Particularly the tailgating before the game? I have never seen so many RVs in my life. The amount of LSU faithful that came to that game was ridiculous. I remember one RV was UGA fans and we went up to them to ask why they were in Blacksburg. They told us they had a plan to see 6 new stadiums every year, so they purchased the VT LSU tickets to see Lane. This would be the culture VT would get into. Our fanbase would never reach LSU, UGA, Bama, UF, or some of the others, but it would rub off us.
Besides, UT, UK, SC and UGA are less than 6 hrs drive from Blacksburg. But, living in NoVA does add another 4 hrs, so I guess that's an issue.
means you can kiss the Thursday night games goodbye. Only OOC games would be scheduled then. The SEC was built for Saturdays.
I just looked up the 2012 schedule. Only 2 SEC games on Thursday, S.C. at Vandy and TxAM at Lousianna Tech, both on opening day, Aug 30.
What UVA and, now senator, Warren did are the exception definitely not the rule. UVA wasn't a power in football in fear of losing recruits, every SEC school, including perennial third tier kentucky will want to protect its turf, I just don't see many schools/politicians going out on a limb to save a rival. But I could easily be wrong, we are all making this up as we go and firing from the hip.
apparently holland fisher got an offer from nick saban, how worried should we be about this?
I have mixed feelings about VT going to the $EC. College Football is by far my favorite sport, and no one does it better than the Southeast. However, traveling would be more difficult for fans. I think VT could hold its own in the SEC East, being on par with UGA. Maybe this is what VT needs to take our program to the next level.
That being said, the ACC has been pretty good to VT, as far as schedules go.
Fortunately we can have both. It's capitalism at its finest.
The numbers that I am assuming come from both the number of chapters in a state and the number of different officers that they have listed; I think it is easy to assume a chapter with 10 positions and 5 different people holding those positions has less members than another chapter that has 10 different people in 10 different positions. You can also infer membership size by the events, venues, and Facebook "likes." These are obviously not concrete, but they certainly indicate whether a chapter is just there on paper or if there is actually a following there.
As far as academics...they certainly drive athletes. However, as said previously, our academics don't change just because we change conferences. Furthermore, the majors that high recruits go into (aside from sports like soccer and track), aren't exactly rocket science. The grants, etc. that are given for academics, and the image that is portrayed from schools is not based on conference; the ACC might have these specific scholarships/grants and what-not, but so would the SEC. Look at Vanderbilt, Auburn, Georgia (recently), and even Florida, they all have good academic reputations and maintain highly funded research. (http://mup.asu.edu/research2009.pdf - just one source of many)
Fact is that we would be one of the top institutions academically in the SEC. We would also gain more recruiting leverage by being in a more competetive conference compared to what we would lose in leverage by going to a "lower" academic conference.
(Your point on playing fair may be true, but with the crack downs going on lately, I'd expect much of that to slow down in the coming years)
Thats what you would expect Hokies to care about but we all know that when the leaves start to change and there is a slight chill in the air the only thing that any Hokie cares about is watching HIGH PROFILE games in Lane or on the road. Think about these same match ups that were mentioned about and throw them into Lane on a Thursday night! Tennessee in our house on a THURSDAY night!!!
I just don't think any North Carolina school could come anywhere close to generating the revenue that Miami can for the SEC regardless of georgraphic TV market. Miami has a national following. Miami could potentially get the SEC picked up in NYC.
And a 16 team SEC with VT, Tennessee and South Carolina would probably be on most NC TV sets anyway. An SEC network would definitely get picked up across the state. Just look at the random markets the Big 10 network gets picked up in.
seeing it typed out like that...that does look pretty epic.
The "politics blocking a VT move from the ACC unless UVA is taken care of" narrative is nice talk radio fodder to give Hoo fan some hope of relevancy after the shakeout takes place, but I haven't yet found anyone who can say how that would play out.
Exactly WHO would be exerting political pressure? And WHOM would they be exerting it on? Name the players in this hypothetical chess game? What are their motivations and why would anyone listen? An argument could be made that VT to SEC and UVA to wherever is better for the state of VA as a whole than VT & UVA both languishing in a crippled ACC.
UVA did us a solid 9 years ago, but the circumstances this time around just aren't the same thing... it's everyone for themselves.
And note that while the athletic department operates in the black, almost 7% of VT student expenses go to the athletic department. If VT could replace student fees with TV revenue, that would be an incredible win for the university itself, which is what I would expect alumni and students really care about.
I'm a recent joiner to the SEC bandwagon and the more I think about it the more it makes sense.
Most of the arguments against joining aren't solid:
- About commitment to the ACC, they didnt want to commit to us at all until politics got involved. The ACC identifies itself as being primarily about basketball while VT is obviously focused on football with a passionate fanbase.
- VT will have a money gap from other SEC schools but with the added revenue and possible expansion of stadium with that money we could keep up not to the level of LSU/AL of course but could stay around mid level which VT wasn't up to the level of FSU/Clemson in terms of money anyway.
- Regarding distance, as stated the SEC East has most teams within a 6 hr distance and for NOVA alums complaining of travel to road games I'll say i'd rather drive 2 hours more to go to a passionate game in Knoxville in a 100K stadium than go to a Duke/WF game.
- In regards to SEC schools going into VA for recruits they already do (Alabama just offered a VT commit) and if we go to the SEC we have some defense against those schools that use SEC membership as a selling point.
- As for competition it is a step up but have to remember we would be playing in the SEC East which is a step up than the ACC but isn't impossibly hard like the SEC west. I'd rather not have to hear the "who have they played" argument every December when VT gets a bowl.
SideNote: I could see VT being in a 4 team pod for SEC North (along w/ NC State, Tennesse, and Kentucky) playing a rotation of another SEC pod every year and a constant SEC rivalry (possibly TAMU because of similarities of universities).
Regardless of everything to be the best you need to play the best!