Recent Comments
This isn't specifically in response to the above post, but I don't think it's a big deal to leave with 3 minutes left in the game after we had just punted back to Clemson. Once they got possession back at that point, the game was over. What's it matter if you leave so you can get away from and start to get over that abomination of a game, meet up with friends, and enjoy the rest of the night? Yes, it's one thing if the game is within one or two scores (i.e. Auburn vs. Utah State. which BTW, Auburn is generally regarded as having pretty good fans and they were heading for the gates at that game), but three scores with 3 minutes left and the other team has the ball? Sorry, that's over. Insult my fandom and claim to be a superior Hokie if that makes you feel any better, but I spent my time and money to support the team, and they flat out didn't show up. I'm still hoarse today from yelling so hard throughout the game, but I'm not going to apologize or feel like any less of a fan for leaving at that point in the game.
As a huge Hokie fan. Going through middle and high school I couldn't wait to be a part of the great crowds (that were ranked among the toughest places to play) here at Virginia Tech. Now, I'm almost embarrassed to be part of our student body. The past couple years the students don't seem to care about the game as much as they do trying to start the wave or throw paper airplanes on the field. And the early leaving is horrible. I don't care if we are winning or losing, I'm sticking it out until the end. I wish our student's would get things together, because I want us to be ranked among the toughest places to play but when the student section is half empty with 10 minutes left to play you don't deserve to be anywhere near that list.
I used to gobble these up when living in San Diego. One option we'd use a lot is to actually fry the fish but i think grilling them is more practical for a tailgate. however, If you want some authentic Fish Taco sauce grab some plain white yogurt and Mayo. I know I know, sounds gross together but believe me. Take a fresh lime or two and keep squeezing the juice into the sauce as you mix it all together. Add your own pepers or spices to zest it up a little.
Don't want to see the contents of the gut, want to see Holies prevail. We are Virginia Tech.
worst coach on the staff? Kevin Sherman (wide receivers). It has been a problem even well before he got here. The receivers are good, but their route running and timing has been bad year after year. The fact that so many made the NFL is even more damning. It meant that they could run good routes, if someone had just taught them.
Stinespring would be second, merely because the offensive line is so inconsistent with fundamentals.
--Tech's offensive identity is "run inside, throw off playaction." Been that way for decades. Core plays are inside/outside zone runs. Been that way for years. It's very "pro-style," actually. The zone read augments both the run and the playaction.
Response: They have not played to that identity the last couple years. Their most effective play has been a power sweep out of an unbalanced line that "looks" like a zone play, but actually pulls linemen and works to either create a seal in the 7 gap or kick out at the 5 gap. They run the zone play more often, but less effectively, however many of the series this year have featured shotgun sweeps, counters, and delays that are totally out of character for most zone blocking schemes. Also, they have featured I formation (mostly with twins to the left side) where the line blocks with I principles (down blocking, kickout blocks, rolls, and combination blocking.) Also, the team uses I principles on goal line. As I have noted in my film reviews, the transition back and forth between I and zone blocking makes their timing on combo blocks awkward at best. Often, the double team is dominant but the combo blocker does not peel off quickly enough to get his linebacker/safety on the second level. That is a timing issue, and it comes from the changing of fundamentals mid-stream in the game.
--Run blocking has been good despite Wilson's hijinks (like outrunning his blockers and missing holes), and despite teams not respecting LT. Coach Newsome's earned his pay this year.
Response: For the most part, the run blocking has been good enough that if Ryan Williams or Darren Evans were the tailbacks, the Hokies would have run for much more yardage against the first four opponents. Still, their blocking in short yardage/goal line situations has been horrendous, and most of the breakdowns have been the result of fundamentals. As a former offensive lineman, muscle memory is key. You have to teach yourself a completely different skill set for zone blocking versus I blocking. Yet, most series the Hokies are zone blocking, then they get to a 3rd and 1 or 2nd and goal, and they change to the I. That is incredibly difficult, and you can see the "brain freeze" when their technique is poor on the goal line.
--VT's run blocking schemes are zone variations that work similarly in every formation, even when it's an option or pin and pull play. A lot like Bama's, Wisconsin's, and tOSU's, actually. There's nowhere near as much variation as with Malzahn-style or flexbone offenses. The pass blocking schemes are pretty standard, too.
Response: Watch the film closer. On many of the I formation plays as well as the one back "sweep" I mentioned earlier, they are not zone blocking. A typical look is the wing, TE, and tackle blocking down, and a guard pulling and kicking out. That isn't zone blocking. They are around 60 % zone blocking 30% pro I blocking, and 10% veer. The pass blocking schemes are standard. VT's weaknesses continue to be poor stunt pickup (see athleticism of two star linemen) and slow developing pass routes (QB has to hold onto the ball too long.)
--I think a lot of people would be unhappy if we were getting stunted and slanted into constant three-and-outs because we were using an archaic man blocking system.
Response: I am not a huge fan of the zone blocking scheme, but if they are going to run it, they need to run it all the time and recruit to it. It doesn't work when your guards and tackles get blown up.
--I think most of us would've like to have had a few more "safe" players around for our last game w/ JMU.
Response: I would have liked more talent against Alabama, LSU, etc. I am guessing that if the talent was good enough to beat them, JMU might not be such a problem.
Sarcasm aside, JMU was an abberation, and it didn't hurt that Bud Foster rolled out his worst defensive line in memory against them. Where have you gone, JC Price?
--We miss a few 'tweener recruits and this NFL stuff starts up. Plenty of NFL teams run single-gap D's, or switch between single and two-gap, or run a hybrid that favors the single. If recruiting rankings are everything, getting McCray, Marshall, Harley, et al has to stand for something. And it's a lot harder to find good two-gap linemen.
Response: Recruiting has gotten better on defense the last two seasons, but Curtis Grant should be listed with McCray, Marshall, and Harley. We will see what Kirrven does. As I noted in an above comment, getting rid of Foster would likely backfire, but he is part of the reason that the Hokies can't be a consistant national title contender. He may make chicken salad out of chicken poop, but to win the big ones, you have to cook filet mignon every now and then.
--Saying Cody couldn't cover is like saying Tyrod couldn't scramble.
Response: Again, watch the film. Cody Grimm's senior year, the only place teams had consistent success was throwing against his zone. Teams really picked on us down the seams that year. Cody made up for it with his fantastic effort and his ability to create turnovers. He was a terrific football player, but just because he was terrific doesn't mean he didn't have a weakness. Saying Cody couldn't cover is more like saying Tyrod couldn't throw three step drop timing slant/curl/out in rythmn his first three years. Which he couldn't.
--Barquell's got a shortened quad tendon slowing him. Telvion's banged-up. Jack's a nice walk-on story. None should be starters right now. If you want to blow-up the scheme and make it a traditional 4-3, fine, Telvion could play outside....when healthy.
Response: Edwards and Taylor should be starting. I would like to see Edwards at the whip. He is a good enough athleted. If Rivers could play every down, he would be my mike, and Taylor would be the backer.
--Our D was on the field too long and in bad situations, so it played very well, instead of perfectly.
Response: agreed. Most of the responsibility was on the O. But the disturbing trend of a poor pass rush in big games continues.
--LT was out of synch and inaccurate, therefore the offense was bad. Is there an in-game adjustment for that? Not really. Could he have been coached up better before the game? Probably. Are we the first team to ever have an inconsistent young QB? Probably not.
Response: Agreed, he is a work in progress. The design of the passing game didn't help him. Also, poor route running and busts made it even worse. Play design and poor route running have been problems back to the Ricky Bustle area. Watch a film of the Marcus Vick game against Miami in 05. Kansas vs Tyrod in the Orange Bowl. All the routes are deep and rounded off. The Hokie coaching staff seems to bank on the ability of the QBs to hold onto the ball longer and move around to help the receivers get open. That is poor coaching.
--We're having special teams problems for the first time in memory. You go this long with our great luck, you're due for an aberration.
Response: You can't go into a season with a guy who can't kick 35 yards. Hell, we had a guy who averaged 40 yards a kick at a podunk D3 school. If your top guy gets hurt, and this is your best option, so be it. But, Beamer has DRESSED a kid who has at least 10 yards of leg per kick more than Delmer. Anyone who has observed the team will tell you that Delmer is the lesser option, but Beamer sticks with it. To the detriment of the team.
Foster is great, but the defense is designed to trick "dumb" teams into mistakes. The downfall of the defense is the old coaching adage "good athletes with great coaching/scheme will get beat by great athletes with great coaching/scheme every time." The Hokie dominance of the ACC since 2004 can be directly attributed to the fact that the Hokies either have better athletes than the other ACC schools, or the schools that have comparable athletes are very poorly coached (see past editions of Clemson, Miami, and Florida State.)
Without exception, whenever the Hokies defense has faced offenses with comparable athletes and well coached schemes, they have lost. (See Boise, Stanford, Cal, UNC in 09, Georgia Tech in 08). When they play teams with better athletes that are just as well coached, they look bad. (See Alabama, LSU, Miami in the early 2000's)
I would rather have Foster stay, and figure out a way to effectively recruit top notch kids that can have success in his system. The problem is that he has always refused to hit the recruiting trail hard, and he stubbornly chases after guys who can dominate UVA, but wilt against big time offensive lines. He has adjusted once. The wide tackle six brought the Hokies to national prominance, but when sophisticated passing teams like Cal took them to the woodshed, Foster changed the scheme to the current "bend but don't break" look. Can he adjust again?
Sadly, they have recruited effectively on OL. Vinston Painter, Blake DeChristopher, Ryan Shuman, Laurence Gibson, and Nick Acree were all high 4 star recruits, and yet only DeChristopher has become a starter. That doesn't even include Aaron Brown, who was a high four star that we stole from Ohio State, who never made it above 3rd string in Blacksburg before leaving the program with a shoulder injury. Instead, Nosal and Lainer start, and both were TWO STAR tight ends.
In fact, they recruit much better offensively in general. DJ Coles, David Wilson, Logan Thomas, and Dyrell Roberts were all four stars, to go along with all those OLs.
To give you some context, on defense there are two four star defensive player starting (Bruce Taylor and Jaron Hosley), with Chris Hill as a nickle guy. Zach McCray, Corey Marshall, and Nick Dew (who should be at rover, not whip) are backups that were four stars. Two of those three are out of position.
Meant to say Curt Newsome and Steiny.....Agreed Charlie has done well with the DL, no problems there.
...doing a coaches roll call, but I figured straight up calling some of them out would work. Wasp mentioned on this site that the DL didn't get enough pressure, which I agree with.
But, overall, I think the performance of the front four has been solid. With Antoine out and Luther hobbled, it will be interesting to see how Marshall and Hamlette play this weekend.
But overall, I would say Charley has done a pretty good job.
As for the other line, yikes.
We need a coaching roll call?
Personally, I think any look at offensive production starts at the core....O-line. We didn't get the job done at all, and we should have six meaner-than-snot guys that just like to hurt people there (including the TE). And the O-line coaches needs to be the ones biting those guys in the butt when they don't measure up, and I don't feel like Wiles and Steiny are getting it done.
you wouldn't run a veer?
--Seems odd criticizing the staff for installing a simple zone read play that'll take the pressure off of the passing game and take advantage of LT's talents without any serious changes to the offense.
--Tech's offensive identity is "run inside, throw off playaction." Been that way for decades. Core plays are inside/outside zone runs. Been that way for years. It's very "pro-style," actually. The zone read augments both the run and the playaction.
--Run blocking has been good despite Wilson's hijinks (like outrunning his blockers and missing holes), and despite teams not respecting LT. Coach Newsome's earned his pay this year.
--VT's run blocking schemes are zone variations that work similarly in every formation, even when it's an option or pin and pull play. A lot like Bama's, Wisconsin's, and tOSU's, actually. There's nowhere near as much variation as with Malzahn-style or flexbone offenses. The pass blocking schemes are pretty standard, too.
--I think a lot of people would be unhappy if we were getting stunted and slanted into constant three-and-outs because we were using an archaic man blocking system.
--I think most of us would've like to have had a few more "safe" players around for our last game w/ JMU.
--We miss a few 'tweener recruits and this NFL stuff starts up. Plenty of NFL teams run single-gap D's, or switch between single and two-gap, or run a hybrid that favors the single. If recruiting rankings are everything, getting McCray, Marshall, Harley, et al has to stand for something. And it's a lot harder to find good two-gap linemen.
--Of course, if a pro-style offense was the primary determinant to recruiting success, we'd have been turning away five stars on O due to filled spots.
--Saying Cody couldn't cover is like saying Tyrod couldn't scramble.
--Barquell's got a shortened quad tendon slowing him. Telvion's banged-up. Jack's a nice walk-on story. None should be starters right now. If you want to blow-up the scheme and make it a traditional 4-3, fine, Telvion could play outside....when healthy.
--Our D was on the field too long and in bad situations, so it played very well, instead of perfectly.
--LT was out of synch and inaccurate, therefore the offense was bad. Is there an in-game adjustment for that? Not really. Could he have been coached up better before the game? Probably. Are we the first team to ever have an inconsistent young QB? Probably not.
--We're having special teams problems for the first time in memory. You go this long with our great luck, you're due for an aberration.
http://www.goupstate.com/article/20111002/PSPORTS02/111009963/-%201/PSPORTS
Hanahan WR Chris Brown is a Notre Dame commitment but is still looking at other options. One of those was Virginia Tech but his father said Sunday night the Hokies have come off their list. Joe Brown said their Virginia Tech recruiter contacted them Sunday to inform they that because of commitments they got over the weekend they wouldn’t be able to take Chris Brown unless he is will to wait until January. He is not according to Joe Brown.
Today, the college observer is far more educated than has ever been, call them the Tecmo generation. Thanks EA sports we're in the game. And at times we are called spoiled for having expectations so high we almost expect to win the big game. EXCEPT we are Tech fans and that expectation is almost destroyed by what is becoming our identity. Showing up for the big game and just going through the motions like we do every saturday, except to better talent. Franks identity is conservative, make them beat you, capitalize on thier mistakes. That identity wins 10 games a season in a mediocre conference and leaves us wanting more because we want to win nationally. Why not?
In the bigger games, we are behind the eight ball before we have a chance to get it going, unless the other team throws us a bone. The bad taste in my mouth is we havent BEATEN anybody in a while, we let them beat themselves or we lay down until its too late. We have been playing comeback in almost every big game we have been in. It shouldnt be. Why did we lose saturday, because Bud's defense couldnt make the big play and turn it all around. Clemson beat us at our game, in our home and we didnt do a damn thing about it.
Dont throw Bud Foster to the wolves, he has an identity, its clear and he has been coaching up talent for years. It is still the offense that is preventing us from getting the talent, not the players but the "identity". Why have so many of techs recievers gone and made a name for themselves in the NFL and no one else? Because after college they are the only ones hungry, starved in fact. We could get better defensive talent if it wasnt the defense bailing us out. Thats a lot of pressure to put on guys that arent typically expected to score. We have always been in question of our quarterback, Tyrod had your hearts but he had his doubters too. Always worried we are going to give up the big play...our identity. Better teams dont fret over a mistake, they bounce back and sometimes they lose a game or two living that way, but when they win its because they did it when they were expected too.
Our special teams, well suck. We have been beaten by special teams more often than ever. Thats where we get behind the eight ball more often than not. Either by giving up the big play, or field position. No argument there, who would want to come to a defense that is pressed in a vice all season long, and is expected to bail the whole team out? Our identity...
Why doesnt Bud go anywhere else? Why would he? The man lives on the edge every week. He couldnt possibly be bored, he can get up eat a bowl full of broken glass, drink a glass full of kerosene and go piss hellfire and damnation on whoever whenever he wants. He hangs it out there for the world to see every week. He would be bored just about anywhere else. Is is his defense vulnurable? Sometimes, except I am pretty sure there is no perfect defense. We could put some better seats in postions but what more could you ask here? if the offense would flat go out and win games you wouldnt question Buds defense. Our identity...
Our Identity is and has been a problem. When we started winning, we stopped growing. We dont make adjustments fast enough. In this day, the fans expect instant gratification. We have been sold a box of goods thats going to be be pretty hard to return. How do you change a 10 win program? Well you could move into a new conference and then that might go away, and a new identity might emerge. It is not enough to win the ACC year end and out is it? Not unless the ACC has won 6 of the past eight. We were there in 1999. What conference were we in? Was the change good for us then? It might be time to get out...and find our identity.
...for being the voice of reason. I don't think most of Key Play's followers understand that not everyone in the stands is exactly like them. I will root for VT with all my heart until the end, but honestly, when you get right down to it, college football is little more than entertainment. And you'll be a lot happier if you stop taking said entertainment (or rather, other people's reactions to it) so seriously. I learned that the hard way.
Should be sent to both the Collegiate Times and the Washington Post
PUBLISHER
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14 years 9 months
# | A Microcosm for the true challenges within the Virginia Tech program The punt on 4th and 3 from the Clemson 43 down 3-10 was just too conservative for my liking. In game situations up until this point, Demler never showed he'd be able to angle a punt out of bounds, let alone kick a touchback. Why trust the kicker here? And even if we had a guy like Vinnie Burns punting it, is it worth gambling over at most 42 yards of field position instead of going for the first down... Beamer has gotten a little more aggressive in going for it on 4th downs from the goal line, but these we rarely convert these. Like Wasp alluded to above, we don't have a go to play. Ohio State had "Dave", Florida had Tebow on the QB blast, Lombardi had his sweep, we have the flavor of the month.
So, I couldn't agree more. We need a simpler system, and a core set of plays that we're confident executing at anytime against any team.
At the end of the day I still don't know why Beamer is convinced his potpourri offense will work?
"Homegrown Scenario"
HC: Beamer. You have to keep him around because he is virtually the face of our football team. Similarly (in some bad ways) just his name can bring interest to VT's football program.
Running backs coach: I think Shane has done quite a good job on teaching DW how to break tackles, so I'll keep him around.
OC: Ralph Friedgen (sp?). That guy can run an offense, plus he fits into the Beamer family mentality.
DC: Bud Foster is obviously a keeper.
Guards and Center: Obviously Newsome isn't getting it done, but O-line coaches aren't the most well known people, so I couldn't name a replacement if I tried.
Wide Receivers: Kevin Sherman has done a lot in turning nothing into something, so I don't have a problem here.
QB coach: Bring Bryan Randall back into the program.
Secondary: Torrian Gray is hands down my favorite coach in the VT program. His energy is fantastic and he brings out the best in his players.
Dline: Charley Wiles has the inside Dline heading in the right direction.
Ends and OLBs: Cornell Brown is one of the best guys you could have for this job.
Athletic director for football operations: Bryan Stinespring. Hes in a position where he can still talk to recruits, but hes as far away from play calling as we can get him.
Billy Hite and Canavaugh bring up the rear and their positions are fine.
"Dream Team"
HC: Chris Peterson from Boise. He knows how to prepare a team to play in a big game, something we've been missing.
OC: Paul Chryst from Wisconsin. I'm a sucker for the power running game and the we're bigger and strong than you are mentality.
DC: Bud Foster. 'Nuff said.
Auburn's loss at Clemson doesn't seem as ugly as it did three weeks ago. At the time Clemson was struggling to beat bad teams, now they're one of the hottest teams in the country. Auburn beat two ranked teams, Mississippi State and South Carolina. We'll see if they're the real deal against Arkansas this week.
While there are levels of fans, I've seen the overall rabid quality dip recently. Maybe it's because I've moved further into the obsessive every year since my freshman year in 07 and therefore the spoiled fans are more obvious to me now. I just can't understand how we can continue to consider ourselves as the greatest and have the best homefield advantage while the stadium is nearly empty at the end of the game in a blowout win vs App St. or a loss on the national stage vs Clemson. You are right that the loss was more on the shoulders of the offense than the fans, but I don't believe fans can complain about a player/coach not doing his job if the fans aren't doing their job. I also assume everybody here is doing their job and we must encourage others to join us.
I had to wait a day to respond to this post because of the sting of defeat. There are a few things that I agree with, but mostly I think this post is off base. I have taken many a loss personally on my shoulders. I didn't wear the right socks, sit in the right seat, drink enough beer, or didn't execute my pre-game routine to perfection. In the end, I found this only did one thing, make me become a little bit insane and not enjoy game day as much as I should.
The realization I came to is that unfortunately there are a few levels of fans. Most people you will find on this site (and those that are similar), I would place in the "obsessive" category. They eat, breathe, and sleep VT Football, basketball, and even revel in Olympic sport successes. Then there are the "elder statesmen" class of fans. I primarily put loyal alumni into this category. They go to every game, support the team, and believe VT can do no wrong. They for the most part are just happy to be a part of a a great university, but will never equal the vocal presence of the obsessive fan. Finally there is a group of fans whom I will call "spoiled". I feel even the most diehard of "obsessive" or "elder statesmen" fan can fall into the spoiled category. However this group is primarily made up of new VT fans. I was a freshman at VT in 2000, the year after the National Championship game, when the fans were probably in an all time high frenzy. However, I did not go to VT for football, and it took me a a whole year to realize just how amazing it truly is. For other students it may take 4 years, or they may never become completely engrossed in VT athletics. Their time at VT will be spent in a drunken haze screaming obscenities and trying to rush the field after beating a mediocre team.
This is just something we have to accept. Everyone is not going to be as big of a fan as we are and that is probably a good thing... we are a fairly irrational group. For example we try to blame a 23-3 loss on fan participation. The fans are primarily there to aid the defense and be quiet during offense. I feel as a fan base and a defense we held our own against Clemson. It was only the ineptitude of our offense and special teams that let us down.
My final point: I don't believe in booing amateur athletes. However, I do feel it is ok to complain to your adjoining fans that our play calling and coaches are not putting our players in the best position to succeed. I think we can all agree that our team has more talent than 3pts. Lets hope we get to see it this week against Miami. Tailgate starts at 8am and victory party starts immediately following the game down town. I'll see you there,
@TheTurkeyTavern
I couldn't care less about the talent we send to the NFL in comparison to winning games. Miami has nothing to brag about except what they have in the NFL. While I would like to bring in better talent, I'd say it has just as much to do with the recruiting mentality of the entire program as it does Foster's system. If he can tweak his system to bring in better guys while maintaining its dominance, then good. But getting rid of Foster and sending our D into oblivion (where our offense resides), could signal the downfall of the program.
I should probably ™ this.
