Clemson just got a commitment from their 11th 5 star player

...Since 2015. 2020 DL Bryan Bresee. That is who we are competing with if we want to win the ACC. That is a sick amount of talent- no other way to spin it. They are 5 star recruits that have also produced on the field. Our last 5 star player was Kendall Fuller in 2013. I hope we can close this gap a bit moving forward.

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I remember when people said Clemson winning a national title was going to be good for VT

I remember it fondly

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I will never buy into that argument- ever. Just like UVA winning a national helping VT hoops- lolololololol. Nope

Pepperidge Farms remembers...

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

People let the Bama hate (a program that has substantially less impact on us) blind their vision. Now we have another Bama and this one takes whoever they want from our most fertile recruiting states.

Is it bad?

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

It does. When Clemson won it the acc was looked at as a joke in football and it affected the acc's ability to get more money in tv revenue. Look at the disparity that exists now between the acc and the big or sec. we hope the accn helps with this but that's yet to be seen. Clemson winning titles and breaking the sec and to s lesser extent big mystique helps the conference as a whole. I would argue Clemson's success has affected Georgia and FSU more than us. Which 5 star did they get we would have gotten? Hell we can't win the coastal right now. Clemson's not our problem imho.

Correy

The ACC was good in 2016, the ACC has been historically and embarrassingly bad the last two seasons. You must be watching a different sport than than me if you think the ACC is in a good spot right now outside of Clemson. The gap is enormous.

Or maybe you're just getting all your info from David Hale, whose job is basically to be an ACC propaganda account on Twitter. The advanced stats tell a very sad story for the quality of the ACC.

We'd be PAC12 basketball right now if it wasn't for Clemson. Clemson isn't hurting the ACC, it's making it barely relevant instead of completely irrelevant.

KJ Henry

Recruit Prosim

And we almost lost out on Kendall Fuller to Clemson if I remember correctly

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Let's see what Clemson has going for em:

Insane budget? Check

Top tier (arguably best) facilities? Check

Super personable coach? Check

Passionate fans? Check

Large stadium? Check

Recent success? YUP

History of success? Check

Large staff including folks dedicated to recruiting? Check

Branding? Check

Located near top talent? Check

It takes a lot to recruit at that level

Keep calm, Gobble on

You're forgetting co-eds.

Less than 10 years ago VT used to beat them regularly - check

We haven't beat them since 2007.

Unless you count 2016 ACCCG as a moral victory.

We aren't talking about loluva football now....

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

15 years ago Clemson was:

  • A leader in passionate fans and nearby top talent
  • Above average (but not a leader) in budget, facilities, history, staff size, and brand.
  • Average or below average coaching, recent winning percentage, and historical success

Clemson didn't turn into a top 5 program overnight, it was built overtime. The foundation was there before Dabo became head coach, but he built a lot of it. I don't think we've seen a program built like this since UF in the early Spurrier days.

VT is in a similar spot to Clemson 15 years ago, with two key differences:

  • There's not as much talent as close to VT
  • VT doesn't spend as much on football (due in large part to more Olympic sports)

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Great points

The budget for Olympic sports are negligible compared to the football budget. We lack a strong donation culture in our fan base.

This is false - Olympic Sports are a big chunk of our athletic budget. Think about it - we have to provide scholarships for Men's & Women's Tennis, Golf, Women's Bball, softball, baseball, etc, none of which bring in any revenue for VT. Clemson has less sports teams, and as a result, their athletic department doesn't have to divide the pie as many different ways. Also worth noting that Clemson's revenue and spending was very similar to ours until 2016:

Year Clemson Athletic Dept Revenues Clemson Football Spending VT Athletic Dept Revenues VT Football Spending
2005 $40,445,377 N/A $45,730,485 $13,897,147
2006 $46,430,106 $13,376,672 $48,658,004 $17,566,222
2007 $56,028,881 $13,880,931 $65,602,382 $26,294,091
2008 $59,180,652 $15,678,243 $64,412,343 $25,570,614
2009 $61,416,494 $19,387,978 $60,895,876 $25,804,061
2010 $57,562,999 $18,114,200 $63,613,464 $21,270,983
2011 $61,174,977 $17,992,943 $66,909,557 $24,628,457
2012 $70,002,280 $24,144,791 $70,723,748 $24,718,021
2013 $69,061,398 $22,339,679 $70,030,484 $24,781,694
2014 $74,793,322 $26,976,828 $73,065,186 $24,022,916
2015 $83,534,371 $29,025,294 $80,230,095 $26,153,443
2016 $104,823,057 $40,877,050 $83,702,698 $30,870,180
2017 $112,600,964 $43,921,242 $87,427,526 $30,878,285

Source

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So, going to the Championship game got them another 21 million to spend.

Correct - although ~$15M of that came from donations, which increased fro $19.9M to $35.6M from 2015 to 2016. They only saw a $2M increase in media/television rights. Source

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But also came with spending $15mil. Yes, they earned a net positive, but it wasn't the full amount.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

It seems like the rich keep getting richer.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

"Them that's got shall get, them that's not shall lose. So the Bible says, and it still is news."
The rich will almost always get richer. We need to get rich quick.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

What a joke

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

whatajoke

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Whataburger?

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This guy has been all Bama all along, all cb predictions, and is a legacy. Clemson was believed to be the only potential competition, but this story was blown out of proportion. This happens to hundreds of recruits every season. If a team has their needs met and no longer has a scholarship for that position, even a high 4* or 5* can not be a take somewhere. While it is certainly uncommon, and particularly uncommon this early in the process, it's not as unique a situation as it seems.

Georgia has like 22 in the same span. Alabama 21. OSU 14. USC 13.

There are enough teams out there that recruit at or above Clemson's level that it will be almost impossible for us to win a title without some serious luck, or an uptick in recruiting.

Interestingly though, Notre Dame, which has actually done somewhat well, only has 1 5* recruit over the time frame. I mean granted they are averaging 11 4* recruits a year (min 8 for a completed class), and already have 6 for this year.

I don't have the numbers to back it up but I think it's the depth/abundance of 4* players (and lack of your average 3* player contributing as a result) that wins and puts these schools in competition for championships more than the handful of 5* players putting them over the top; it's just that the schools with that depth are the schools that manage to land/attract a 5* player or two every cycle as well.

In short I guess I'm saying is I don't think we need the KJ Henry's to get to that level but we need a LOT more Dax's.

Yep its your Blue Chip Ratio, SB Nation usually puts out an update to its tracker each year, but yep 5*'s are important but the real trick is having more of your roster made up of 4* than 3* guys that put you up a tier vs everyone else.

I mean, all you really just said was that you need to increase blue chip recruits. Not,too many schools consistently get 5* players but then fill out the rest as 3* recruits. And i know people will point to that one year for UVA, but im talking consistent here.

Bama has 12 on their roster currently. The gap is crazy between the haves and have nots.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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dammit you edited too quick...

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NCAA div 1 FBS Football is obscenely out of balance.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

This assumes that "balance" is a desirable outcome, of course.

I'm not sure it's any further out of balance than it has been in the past, I think people just notice it now.

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I think the money disparity makes it harder for a school that's not already established to bust through the wall. When we did it the money was nowhere near what it is now. When we're 10s of millions of dollars behind the power schools it's hard to keep up. There is a reason the top contenders every year come from the sec and big. Clemson was smart with their money and struck gold. When aTm can come in and steal a coach from one of our power schools that tells you where the money is.

Correy

Winning brings croots.

There are wolves and there are sheep, I am the sheep dog

"Winning brings croots."

- 2000-2010 Virginia Tech

Beamer should have capitalized on the momentum the program had in the early 2000s and expanded our recruiting horizons outside of what he had been doing. ESPN loved us, we entered the top 5 every season, and our athletic department was bringing in revenue.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

My theory is that winning raises awareness, and thus gives you more talent in the 'top of the funnel.' When it comes to consideration and decision making, things like relationships with coaches, system fit, ability to get drafted, etc make a bigger difference.

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I honestly don't get this piece. VT used to beat them for big recruits 10+ years ago - not relevant. Clemson exercised the ability to set a long-term strategic plan to go all-in to win at football including fund-raising, building facilities, limiting Olympic sports that were losers financially, etc. etc.

Additionally, their leadership exercised patience and trusted the process as they knew this would take 5-7++ years before they would really start to generate momentum and change their brand. Kudos to them.

I would suggest saying we should beat them because of 10 years ago reads like sour grapes and a lack of perspective. VT has a solid long term strategic plan, but to equate it to Clemson's plan of 10 years ago - no.

With that said, all things like Clemson's run will come to an end at some point. Can Vt put together a long-term plan to build success with patience? Despite 5 star recruiting the Hokies can build to beat Clemson. To me that is the question as if we get short-sighted (see UT fan base) last year might feel good.

I'm a Whit believer so time will tell. My viewpoint is we were father away than people want to believe in 2015 and the fall-our was delayed. We need to progress in 2019 and especially 2020,2021 and capitalize on that success with investments in our facilities and boosting our recruiting profile.

I don't remember beating them for that many recruits. They got Stephone Anthony who was cousins with one of our players. Their classes ranked ahead of ours most years.

That is still recent memory. DC is staying Clemson just continues to advance their lead on us via their recruiting wins. Also, it reads like why can't we win those just win them.

I wish it was that simple and occasionally it can be, but most of the time the reality is that it is more complex. Pre major recruiting metrics and the analytics of today we may have beat them (see circa early 2000's).

If we want to consistently compete at this level I would love to understand the view of the plan with the give and takes. How do you raise more money? What is your commitment to other sports? What brand do you create? Where do you focus regionally? What is the facilities plan - timeline?

Saying just win will just result in frustration and the blame game. Overall, Vt can recruit to the top 20 level consistently based on the abilities in place today. Can we develop to top 10 through a plan? Yes, but we have to win in the less dynamic recruiting places (see o line players), find a dynamic qb(s) and build a funnel of very solid to star outside the hash players (solid quantity vs going after 1 player we wont get).

Just my opinion

Must be nice.

oh yeah, well how's their bass fishing team looking.../s

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

start winning the in-state battles and you will win the ACC at least

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Is it that difficult to fit "Since 2015" in the title? I was wondering why I hadn't heard about their crazy class until I opened the thread.

It's Time to go to Work

Can't be clickbait without the bait!

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Yep, on the football forum, a 100% factual post about a recent commitment to an acc rival is "clickbait", yep.

Looking at it from "active discussions," it wasn't factual. Clicking on it and reading the post made it factual. Kind of clickbait-ish.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

It is factual regardless. A date range doesn't make it any more "factual" but whatever

The title was misleading.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Right or wrong, people don't always read past the title. That's with all news these days. Someone sees a title and passes off for exactly what it says. That's all.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

A misleading title used to get readers to click is the definition of clickbait.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Misleading?? lolololol come on.

As in, you should have added in the 2015 part...it's not surprising, it's how all your thread titles are....you give a partial sentence that attracts someone to click it, then the first line of the post finishes up the thread title in a usually disappointing way, meaning that when you look at the full sentence, it is not nearly as interesting as just the portion that you use as the title.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Creating good forum topic titles is literally in the Community Guidelines:

Provide a clear, sensible and descriptive title for your post. "Tyrod Taylor..." is not a clear descriptive title. "Tyrod Taylor to Play Entire Preseason Game" is.

Edit: fixed spelling

I mean, VT is just never gonna get there. I truly believe the current system and hierarchy will prevent VT from ever winning a championship. Just too many things need tl fall into place for us.

That probably became true the instant the playoff was created. Never say never I guess but it will take some serious luck or overachievement to knock off two top 4 teams.

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Agreed and expanding the playoff to 8 teams makes it that much harder to win it all. In an 8 team playoff, the team that keeps the most talented players healthy or has talented backups for depth when players do go down will win the vast majority of the time. As of now, that isn't us, but it is Alabama and Clemson or whatever teams can stock pile the most talented players in the future.

That's why I think expanding the playoff is a bad idea for the non-blue bloods. Yes, you might get a chance to beat a great team once, but it will be super hard to do it three times. I also think three straight games against elite level talent could lead to more injuries and fatigue for your team which makes depth even more important.

overachievement to knock off two three top 4 teams

If we're making the playoff, we're going to have to beat a more than likely top 4 Clemson team in the ACC championship and then win the 2 playoff games. We've beaten a top 5 team once. BCS was our best chance.

15 Straight

About Me
2016 Grad. Attended VT during the worst stretch of football over the last 25 years. Somehow still optimistic.

Probably about time to update your profile.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Ive become cynical.

Although im optimistic we can at least win a division title lol.

That's unfortunate. I have an extra pair of maroon and orange glasses if you need them. The future is bright where I'm looking!

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Maybe one day I'll take you up on that.

I'm right there with you, man.

That's why I think expanding the playoff is a bad idea for the non-blue bloods

That might be the case for P5 teams but the entire G5 has no chance of ever even playing for a championship unless the playoff expands. Also it's worth expanding if only to avoid the Alabama/LSU national championship rematch with no other team getting a shot.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

The LSU/Alabama rematch was a joke and should have never been allowed to happen. The "eye test" is preposterous for no other reason than not enough teams could play each other for that to be a valid assessment

Advanced stats thought they were the best two teams as well. It wasn't just the eye test.

The body of work was mostly within the same group of teams. Advanced stats show they are the best 2 teams in the SEC

In 2011 LSU handled Oregon and Alabama beat Penn State in Happy Valley as well. Not much more they could have done. Oklahoma State could have prevented that title rematch if they didn't lose to Iowa State. Redirect your unhappiness toward Okie State's inability to beat inferior competition, because Alabama and LSU absolutely dominated everyone but each other that year.

They handled Oregon and Penn State? Ok. So are we going by the transitive property that they were CLEARLY the best 2 teams in the country?

You pick a cross section of playoff/championship teams because CUMULATIVELY they played a good number of the best teams in the country. When they picked Bama/LSU, they ignored this fact.

Where am I using the transitive property? I just pointed out that they both had good OOC opponents. You're talking about the body of work being too small/inclusive or something, but that's all the advanced stats have to go on, and it doesn't make them irrelevant.

Which brings up another question, do you actually think the SEC wasn't a good conference that year? I was pointing out that they played good OOC opponents in addition to playing in a strong conference, which they did, and dominated everyone but each other. Bama and LSU were on a tier by themselves that season.

Either way, if Okie State doesn't lose to 6-7 Iowa State they get their shot at a national title, but they did so tough luck. Don't lose to a bad team.

Penn State was not good that year

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

They were 9-4 (6-2) in conference with all four losses to ranked teams (one of them being Bama). Sure, they weren't as good as 2016 or 2017 Penn State, but are we really going to say that playing a 9 win Penn State team in Happy Valley isn't a good OOC game? If that doesn't count as a good OOC game then the bar is too high. Would you say that when we played 9-4 (5-3) Nebraska in Lincoln in 2008 that wasn't a quality OOC game?

Huh. I just assumed they had a losing record that year since that was when all the Sandusky shit was hitting the fan.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Neither VT nor any other team that has never won a title will do so in my life time

RemindMe! 60 years

You might've missed this already - UF won their first title in 96, were you alive for that?

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Interesting stuff going on in the courtroom. Sounds like Clemson checks (pun) more than just the boxes noted above. Will be interested to see how this plays out and if the schools mentioned will ever actually feel the repercussions.

Very interesting. The rumor I've heard about Clemson is that they rely on churches (which are tax exempt and can be largely a cash operation) as a means to distribute money to players. I was listening to The Audible the other day and they said that, if this were true, it's probably the only pay-for-play scandal that Americans at large would care about. It would be fascinating if this were true to watch the news unfold.

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Yikes. That would be nuts if true.

I mentioned it in a comment a couple days ago, actually.

Google "Newspring Church Clemson" and you'll get some results that are interesting reads.

I want no part of this if this is how we are supposed to close the gap on recruiting.

It remains astonishing to me that every top school offered Zion Williamson large amounts of cash- except Duke of course. It's truly a testament to coach K.. lol

The interesting thing about a prospect like Zion that is unique against even the best football prospects is that he (and a few other b-ball prospects thought recent history) were sure bets to go pro. Barring their legs being blown off by a land mine, they are going to the NBA less than a full year out of high school. Zion is going to sign a shoe deal worth more than most NFL players will make in their whole career. He can afford to turn down a schools (relatively, in his case) small money offer to wait a year.

That makes perfect sense... but Duke paid him. Zero doubt in my mind. You don't get a seat at the one and done Nike AAU table without paying.

Oh I'm not saying they didn't, and I hate Duke as much as anyone, but if he did turn down money it's more believable in a unique situation like his.

And end up at a school with a national following that ends up getting prime prime prime time games, not just the occasional weekend one.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Maybe he gives $ maybe he doesn't, I have no idea. He does offer something no other school (even UK, KU, and UNC) can match. Coach K offers every game on national TV and non-stop media coverage. What he offers in exposure is worth more than any other cash offers from any other school.

I just did a quick look at the last 15 years of VT recruiting on 247.

VT, historically, has not recruited terribly well (shocker). There are some spots and some seasons all along the way where Beamer and Co. hit a home run. But more often than not, the classes were filled with low end 3* kids up to the occasional 4* kid.

Also, and I may put together a post about it at some point showing:

1. How many contributors per class did VT have?
2. Of those contributors, how many were multiple year starters?
3. Of those multiple year starters, what were their rankings (this is very surprising)?

Let me just say, we will all be blown away by what Beamer and Co. did with the people who contributed all along the way. If Fuente can get to that level of development, I think VT football will be OK. Clemson or Alabama OK? Probably not, but certainly up in that Michigan St. type of OK.

Is it basketball season yet?

Just Wow. Talk about some resources

As much as I think that he is a goober, the dude still earned it. No one else is going toe to toe with Saban and making Saban blink first.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Little old Clemson, however do they compete with Alabama as such underdogs!?

This should probably have been its own thread.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

That's one hell of a payday. Just curious could any nfl teams come close to that size deal?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I'm sitting here hoping the NCAA busts them all at the same time.

I'm sitting here hoping the NCAA FBI busts them all at the same time.

FTFY. Very little chance the NCAA ever does anything. About anything.

.

.
.and Whit puts on his batting gloves and steps up to the plate....

.

.
.and Whit puts on his batting gloves and steps up to the plate....

I think you need to take advantage of lightning when you catch it. For us that was Mike Vick and that Corey Moore defense. Playing for the title launched us into another realm recruiting wise then. If we got them now, with media coverage being what it is now, it would have launched us into Alabama's orbit with regards to recruiting.

Dabo got Watson and Watkins and turned that into championship appearances and titles, the winning has made recruiting a lot easier for them.

We came really close to beating that national championship Clemson with Watson at the helm in the ACC champ game. So I think the combo of Fuente and Bud can get it done. I just don't know who our next Vick and Moore are that will get us there.