OT: Myles Garrett Lost His Dang Mind

Myles Garrett ripped the helmet off Mason Rudolph last night and hit him in the head with it. As you can imagine, it's making the talking heads speak very seriously on tv this morning.

It's also set off a maelstrom of hot takes: Zapruder-style film that points to Rudolph (maybe) kicking or (maybe) grabbing Garrett's nuts ("HE HAD IT COMIN'!"), Raiders fans wanting to make sure Garrett gets similar disciplinary measures as Vontez Burfict, and national writers talking about The Shield being tarnished.

With that said, we can all agree on one thing:

What say you, TKP? Where were you during the Great Helmet Swing of 2019? How long do you think he will be suspended? How long should he be suspended?

Forums: 
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

This is the worst thing I've seen during a play since Marty McSorley hatcheted Donald Brashear with 4.6 seconds left in the game back in 2000.

McSorley was suspended for the rest of the season and playoffs. He was criminally charged with assault and later convicted where he served 18 months of probation. After the conviction, his suspension was extended to 1 full year. He never dressed for an NHL team again.

What happened last night is pretty damn close to what happened here. It'll be interesting to see if the NFL cares as much as the NHL did nearly 20 years ago.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

To me to the Bertuzzi sucker punch will be worse, 17 month suspension that even international teams enforced during the lockout. Plus Bertuzzi broke Moore's neck and ended his hockey career. Nearly paralyzed the guy.

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

Yep

That sucker punch was disgusting. Bertuzzi should never have been allowed back into the game. That should have been a lifetime ban, which the NHL realized and pretty much enforced when the McSoreley play happened.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Yeah that should have been a lifetime ban. Weird though since the Bertuzzi incident was four years after McSoreley's

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

Wait that was the other way around? I thought the Bertuzzi hit was in the 90s.

Nevermind, then I guess the difference was that McSoreley used his stick as a weapon, and Bertuzzi just his fists? Yeah, I don't get it. Then again, Bertuzzi was a name player at the time, and McSoreley was a trash enforcer.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Bertuzzi hit was in 2004. I agree though that it has to do with Bettman trying to get a named player back as soon as possible. With the lockout Bertuzzi only missed like 20 games

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

Both were ugly, but for some reason using your stick as a weapon to intentionally injure someone just feels worse to me.

Where's the beef?

Yeah, if you defend Garrett in any way, you need your head examined. Should be suspended for 12 games.

In total agreement-had a Browns fan last night claim that Garrett was the victim and he should file assault charges against Rudolph, Pouncey and DeCastro. He's also a huge Ohio State fan...might have to start going to a different bar from now on-that guy ain't right in the head. I'd give Garrett a 16 game suspension.

I wouldn't defend Garrett, but Rudolph also deserves some credit for his contribution.

Sure. He contributed. He will get a ban too.

He's done for the year minimum but I wouldn't be surprised if it was longer. There are going to be a lot of suspensions coming from that fiasco last night.

Myles Garrett has a Football Record. He took another guys helmet off and bashed him in the head with it. He's the only guy to ever do that.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

He might also give Burfict a run at the longest suspension in NFL history for conduct on the field. Burfict has 3 of the top 5...now that's dedication

Smith upper cutted Incognito with his own helmet. Then again it was Incognito and the only thing thicker and more hollow than a football helmet is Incognito's head.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

After some serious illegal hands to the face from Incognito. I can imagine dealing with that kind of shit all game without retaliating would be a serious test of self control

I don't even think that was flagged. That was a pretty rare penalty prior to 2014 when the league decided to take out the prolonged contact part.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I get the Happy Gilmore Reference... Leg for you sir!

What's
Important
Now

Kick him off the tour Doug!!

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Yeah, you gotta end his season with that one. I imagine Pouncey might get a suspension for his reaction too. Only for a game though hopefully. He went nuts after Garrett took that swing - understandably.

I think Pouncey will get 4 games for the kicking Garrett in the head while he was on the ground. The punches would have earned him 2 games alone.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

They should build a statue of Pouncey outside Heinz Field. And Myles Garrett should build a statue of David DeCastro in his front yard so he never leaves home again without thinking about the time DeCastro saved his life.

Pouncey is getting suspended.

He doesn't get a statue for contributing to the problem.

Well...this is Pennsylvania, after all...they've done it before *cough* JoePa *cough*

Sure, but they had to hide the JoePa statue.

For now.

I'm sure they'll be trying to bring it out of hiding at some point, and pretending we've all forgotten.

I thought they already brought the statue back out.

There was a petition for it's reinstatement, but according to the wiki page (yes, the statue has it's own wiki) it wasn't put back.

If i were Rudolph I would absolutely pursue criminal and civil action. That could have cost him his career/life.

That could have cost him his career/life

Probably a strech, but I think he could pursue civil action and win.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

If he had hit him in the face or jaw or ear with the crown of the helmet instead of the padded back there would have been serious potential life altering injury.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

There is a video circulating right now where a guy breaks a wooden chair in half by hitting it with a football helmet.

So yeah, you're absolutely right. Rudolph is very lucky that Garrett didn't hit him with the shell instead of the padding. That easily could have cracked open his skull.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

A hit to the head with a blunt object swung by a freakishly strong athlete could absolutely kill you.

And let's not forget that Mason Rudolph also had a brutal looking concussion just a month ago.

Those helmets are fucking sturdy man.

The human head is pretty fragile man...that's why you should always wear a helmet on a bike/motorcycle/etc.

#thingsiblamethemvsfor

I watched this live and let out an audible WTF. Garret got a hold of Rudolf as he released the ball and probably thought he still had it and was bringing him to the ground. He didn't slam him and it wasn't a violent tackle. In the replay when both are on the ground you can see Rudolf went for Garrett's helmet first while they were on the ground. Garrett then (as the thread title states) lost his damn mind and clearly overreacted. He was over reacting when he yanked his helmet off. He earned himself at least 8 games, probably more when he swung it. This won't be equivalent to Burfict, because Burfict had about 10 seasons worth of suspensions and fines before his Oakland encore. I think Albert Haynesworth got 5 games for stomping on a guy's head so I would guess Garrett gets the season or 8 games (since there are only 6 games left in the Browns' season)

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

First off, I have not seen any of the clips. I have read in two different articles that Rudolph did go first to the helmet against Garrett. Did he accidentally stick his finger in Garrett's eye or something and set him off? To my knowledge, Garrett had never lost control or really been fined before. (EDIT: somebody pointed out he has)

That said, Garrett is probably done for at least 4 games if not the season.

Edited: DeCastro was the one to stop Garrett. Pouncey should get multiple games for continuing the fight.

Then Pouncey proceeded to kick him repeatedly while he was on the ground

"These people are losing their minds" - Mike Patrick

I find it hard to vilify a player trying to beat the shit out of someone they just witnessed full swing bash their teammate's skull with a football helmet.

I highly doubt anyone here would have not reacted in a similar fashion.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I wouldn't vilify him, but he also should get at least two games for the kicks and punches. I think Pouncey understands it and the Steelers understand it. He has already said he accepts whatever punishment comes and still doesn't regret what he did.

if I were the NFL I'd hit him with a slap on the wrist, maybe fine him $10k and stick him on super secret probation and be done with it.

Send the message that what Garrett did was so thoroughly and completely out of line that the league is willing to somewhat look the other way regarding retaliation should that kind of thing ever happen again.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

if I were the NFL I'd hit him with a slap on the wrist, maybe fine him $10k and stick him on super secret probation and be done with it.

And in doing so, you would incentivize every player to "come to the defense of their teammate". If there's no penalty to jumping into a fray and kicking the shit out of someone, then shit would escalate really quickly.

The NFL is going to come down hardest on Garrett, obviously, but there will be penalties involved for Pouncey, no doubt.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Absolutely. You have to punish the action, even if it's "justified". Motivation is a mitigating factor, but not exculpatory.

Edit: It's also significant that the guy he was kicking still had his helmet on.

Anybody who contributed to the conflict should get a sanction in proportion to their contribution.

Yeah, Pouncey should get suspended.

I'd also take a close look at Rudolph's actions. He definitely provoked Garrett, and continued to agitate the situation, right up until trying to call the referees over and pretend like he wasn't a participant.

There is no provocation on Rudolph's part that justifies what Myles Garrett did. I don't care if Mason Rudolph spit in Garrett's face and punched him in the nuts. You can't take a guy's helmet off and bash him in the head with it. You don't get to commit aggravated assault because someone "provoked" you.

There is nothing that justifies what Myles Garrett did, and nobody said there was.

But it doesn't mean that Rudolph didn't contribute to the incident.

agreed and by my estimation, Pouncey and Co. let him off lightly during the ensuing melee.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Kicking him was letting him off lightly?

Nah.

Pouncey is also going to get a suspension.

Punching dudes with a helmet on has always made me laugh, so kicking a guy with one on compared to what he did, yeah I'd say he got off light.

Not that either of those actions is appropriate, just saying he got off light compared to having a foot meet his head without a helmet.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Garrett's been fined $52k....just this season.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Has already thrown a punch this season too.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Didn't realize that, I don't really follow the browns. As I said, I was figuring on at least a four game suspension with a clean record. Without the clean record, the indefinite is justified.

Rudolph twisted Garrett's head trying to rip his helmet off, Garrett then yanked Rudolph off the ground by his facemask in retaliation causing Rudolph's helmet to come off in his hand and then they were separated by a Steeler's player and Rudolph went back after Garrett again. Garrett then wacked Rudolph in the head with his own helmet. Also I want to add that I don't think Garrett's hit on Rudolph was late or bad and looked like Rudolph actually landed on top of Garrett when they hit the ground.

Rudolph was trying to rip Garrett's helmet off after the tackle, and then as Garrett starts to go for Rudolph's helmet Rudolph then proceeds to kick Garrett in the man region multiple times with CLEATS, I'm in no way saying what Garrett did wasn't wrong, it was brutal but to act like Rudolph is innocent is horseshit Rudolph should be suspended at least 3 games for instigating the whole thing, and then to act like Rudolph has a legal case? I don't know about that, how do you win a legal case when you were the one that started the altercation? Facts are if Rudolph doesn't run after him like he's some badass when he got his helmet taken he would have never got hit

Go for it

Idk, Rudolphs kicks look defensive to me, like he was trying to get the guy away from him. The stupid thing Rudolph did was after they were separated, and 2 of his teammates had Garrett backed off, was to go running back into the fold

Yeah, he should have walked in the other direction.

The refs will get your helmet back.

Trying to get away while he was trying to rip Garrett's helmet off? What Garrett did was inexcusable, but in my opinion Rudolph deserves a slightly lesser punishment than Garrett. He provoked the entire incident. None of that ever happens if Big Ben is in the same situation. You're losing by 14 and got hit on a completely legal play, to act the way he did was similar to a 3 year old throwing a tantrum. If there are 2 ways to piss a man off, kick him in the junk and put your hands in his face. I thought it was egregious he didn't get kicked out as well.

β€œThese people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

in my opinion Rudolph deserves a slightly lesser punishment than Garrett

Yikes, this is a bad take

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I know we're not supposed to downvote opinions, but...

Then don't. My point is that if you kick someone where he did, and there are multiple photos of Rudolph connecting with his foot, you might invoke a primal rage. Which is what happened. That is my opinion and I'm not certain why I got downvotes for it. But I would love to see anyone here get kicked like that and not react.

β€œThese people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

I've seen photos too, but I've yet to see a video of him getting kicked in the nuts. But if I got kicked in the nuts I would certainly have a reaction. It's just that my reaction wouldn't involve smashing someone over the head with a blunt object that weighs 6 lbs.

No, no no, your honor. Look, I know I cracked his skull and put him in a coma he may never recover from. But you see... He kicked me in... in the balls! What else was I supposed to do?!?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

He sent me into a primal rage, your honor! A rage! I'm a grown man capable making mature decisions based on expected outcomes, but getting my nards kicked reverses millions of years of evolution and I just need to maim!

Yes because kicking someone in the "nards" is also a mature decision...and in no way assault.

β€œThese people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

Ah yes, any negative offense can be met with any level of retaliation. Even potentially paralysis and death. MAn, I swear people have lost all sense of proportionality in our culture.

You're so right kicking someone in their reproductive organs is totally fine and appropriate.

β€œThese people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

Ah, again, another show of how people these days lack understanding of proportionality. Any transgression means you can retaliate with any measure of force lol.

You keep making the same comment that has nothing to do with anything that I've said. Never did I condone what Garrett did or say that his retaliation was warranted. My entire point was that Rudolph is getting off with no punishment and he started the whole thing. If you were to replace him with 31 other starting quarterbacks in the NFL we wouldn't be talking about this because none of them would have done what he did.

β€œThese people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

Nards? Is this the early Hatin' On Pat Narduzzi Thread? If so...fuck Pat Narduzzi

I'm not sure "kicked" is the right term. As Garrett grabs Rudolph's face mask and starts pulling, Rudolph plants his foot wherever he can find leverage to try to pull away as he's being picked up by his neck.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that he initially escalated things by tugging at Garrett's helmet, but I think the nut shot people keep talking about wasn't necessarily intentional.

He was responding to Alum I think

Ngl, this is a real dumb take lol. Myles is a grown ass man. He chose to potentially cripple or kill Randolph. MAson did no such thing at all.

You're overplaying this a bit.

They both acted like jerks after the play was over. Yeah Garrett was way over the top, and is going to pay for that, but Randolph was also being an ass, which is what provoked Garrett to begin with.

Sadly, it's going to hurt the Browns just when things were starting to come together for them. The whole incident was entirely unnecessary.

I don't think you are really understanding the damage a football helmet can do to an unhelmeted skull. I'm talking broken bones here. Intracranial hemorrhages. Brain swelling. Potential career ending stuff. Potential life ending stiff. This isn't a cheap shot to the knees. This is someone using a weapon that could cripple or kill someone. Someone being a dick doesn't give the recipient immunity to react in anyway possible. I'm not overplaying anything.

Nobody here is arguing that Garrett was in any way justified in beating Mason Rudolph with his helmet, or that it couldn't have done some significant damage.

You're attacking a strawman.

I responded to your statement of "You are overplaying it" so if I'm attacking a strawman then it's one that you created lol.

Trying to get away while he was trying to rip Garrett's helmet off?

I saw a still picture of Rudolph with his hand on Garrett's helmet as they first hit the ground, then another still picture of Rudolph with his foot at Garretts cup when Garrett was standing over him, no way did these things happen at the same time

Garrett was fined over $50,000 earlier this year for punching Delanie Walker and 2 late hits on Trevor Siemien, the second of which knocked Siemien out for the year.

Browns found another way to make headlines besides their putrid play and Baker's ten million commercials, gotta give them credit

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
β€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

you know it's bad when the browns are catching comments like these from raiders fans

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

On second thought, they definitely earned it

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I should be but I'm not after living in Ohio how trash Browns fans are. Clapping for the ejected players as they left. The stuff I'm seeing on social media from people I worked with up there etc.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yup, seeing it here too. Sports is so tribal, it honestly grosses me out sometimes

Here's what I took away from it; If I'm a QB I want Pouncey on my team.

Aaron Hernandez wanted him on his team for a reason.

Probably don't want either Pouncey brother on your team.

Assuming this wasn't his last game in the NFL, I look forward to Garrett's next game in Pittsburgh, whenever that may be.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

They play again in like 2 or 3 weeks

Garrett won't be playing in that game, he's going to be done for the year.

True, there will be some bad blood boiling for sure though.

This all sounds like a fantastic hypo for a law school torts exam. Battery, Assumption of risk, Defense of others, Self defense, it has it all.

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

I don't remember the case name, but I read a similar case in law school. I'm fuzzy on the details now but I believe it involved one NFL player suing the other after being elbowed in the back of the head? I think the case took place in the 70's and involved the Bengals. I don't want to look it up right now, but I may look it up later if no one else finds it first.

As shitty as this game ended, there was at least some hokie love. Out of context, it feels weird to watch after seeing so much footage of the fight

Aww that brought a smile to my face :)

Haha me to. Awesome clip.

He definitely kicked him in the dick intentionally. Not condoning the helmet swing. They should both be suspended. That move by the QB reminded me of something Grayson Allen might do.

. 20191115-092645" />

Did you actually find that in the video? Cause that was the furthest thing from a kick in the dick I've ever seen. That's a freeze frame with a cleat near a dick. Garrett already has his facemask with both hands at that point...

https://youtu.be/_PMHlURlxus?t=108

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Sure looks like it is planted in between the thighs to me. Seems a bit closer than near. I could be wrong. I'm not defending anyone. Just showing some other angles. Like I said, they both need to sit for a while. They both had a handful of face mask at different points.

Watched the video because I was curious. Took me two times watching it closely but you can see Rudolph kick him in crotch (1:53 in your video).

Tried to screen shot:

I like the other guys comment of planned. Rudolph certainly contributed I'm not arguing against that but to me that's a push this guy off me who's trying to pick me up by the head and my foot incidentally lands on the dudes junk.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Sure, but it was Rudolph who grabbed Garrett's helmet first, I believe.

The problem with that logic is that everyone involved feels somewhat provoked, and then they escalate.

We like players getting fired up, but we don't like when they escalate the situation outside the game parameters.

I agree. The grabbing of helmets and facemasks isn't near the level of bashing someone in the head with a helmet though. Players get in those scuffles and grabbing at helmets and facemasks after the play every week, usually it stops at that with a flag and maybe a fine. Sometimes it boils over like the Finnegan incident which was also bad but when you start swinging helmets that's some next level completely skipped go done for the season stuff.

Rudolph should be fined (I don't think that was mentioned in the announcement of initial punishments) at the least maybe a game suspension at the very most.

Edit: That last sentence made literally no sense. "At least at the very most"

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Yeah, you can't go around taking someone's helmet and then hitting them with it.

Garrett deserves a long suspension for that. It can't be tolerated.

He definitely had his cleat in the guy's crotch, and his hands on his helmet.

That's not helping the situation. Sometimes when you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

He contributed to the problem, and also deserves some attention from the NFL.

Why you leaving out the part leading up to that when Mason Rudolph was trying to rip Garrett's helmet off?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

So he got kicked in the junk. So? That kind of shit happens more often than you'd think in the game, especially during scrums on the ground.

Using the football helmet as a weapon against an opponent's exposed head, on the other hand......

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Dude! I'm not defending Garrett! I know that people get kicked and often. I literally said I don't condone the helmet swing.

I've seen a lot of people claiming that Rudolph tried to pull Garrett's helmet off first, but I'm not entirely convinced that's what's happening in that screenshot. Rudolph was unhappy with the tackle after he got rid of the ball and wanted Garrett off of him. Knowing that and looking at where Garrett is positioned in that frame, Rudolph literally cannot reach and apply force to any other part of Garrett's body other than his head/helmet. If Rudolph is trying to get Garrett off of him, the only option is to grab at the helmet area. In my opinion, that does not necessarily mean that Rudolph is trying to pull Garrett's helmet off.

The kick to the groin is another issue. Obviously it appears Rudolph's foot was in Garrett's nether regions, but I wouldn't feel confident in making an assumption from a still frame image rather than a slowed down video of that part of the incident.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Clearly trying to rip his helmet off. Garrett is not even on top of him

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Wild that there are no repercussions for Rudolph. I would say the review process would flesh things out but, it seems that was quickly done with already.

To be fair, the NFL statement does say that "additional discipline for other players will be forthcoming", so we'll see. Maybe they just needed to get the obvious 3 out there, then review the rest more closely.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

As of right now he just got fined.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Find a video of the brawl. The still frames don't offer enough information...

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

HA! The NFL has blocked the video as if they will be able to control the shit storm.

Edit: Apparently it is viewable on Youboob still. It's been a long day.

Perspective from a VT player:

Virginia Tech Class of 2013
Mining and Minerals Engineering

Sailing the Eastern Seas....on a ship filled with sand....

I'm also wondering what could set Garrett off like that? Was it something said? A kick in the nuts? That needs to be looked at as well. Not defending him, but we need to know to why.

He was obviously pissed. And Rudolph tired to pull his helmet first. Nevertheless, what Garrett did is indefensible.

that he said something that pissed Myles Garrett off like that

He may have, who knows. But words are no justification for physical violence. Imagine if he had fractured Mason's skull or killed him and Garrett's defense was "He called me a bad name".

Nobody is saying it was justified.

They're saying he was likely provoked, which means Rudolph also deserves some attention from the NFL. Maybe not for saying stuff, but more for holding Garrett's helmet, and kicking him in the crotch.

do you really think Myles Garrett is gonna carelessly snap like that unless it's actually warranted?

Definition of warranted - justify or necessitate - so, to me, House's quote is an attempt at justification.

Yeah, warranted is definitely not the right word. Substitute it with "provoked", and it's more accurate.

Yep, provoked is a better description.

If he had stopped after ripping off Rudolph's helmet, I doubt anyone would really be talking about this. It would have been written off as just a heated scuffle. Garrett should really be thanking his lucky stars that Rudolph wasn't seriously hurt or a suspension would be the least of his worries.

True.

Is it ever warranted though? I mean, shit happens on the field. People say things to get in your head and piss you off to make you get off your game. Gotta be better than to listen to it and let it get you so pissed off you rip a helmet off and swing it at them.

Virginia Tech Class of 2013
Mining and Minerals Engineering

Sailing the Eastern Seas....on a ship filled with sand....

this was an entirely predictable development and the fact that it's happening a week after the actual on-field incident is dubious at best to me.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Well, Rudolph did or said something to make Garrett come completely unhinged.

We all knew Rudolph did or say something. But Garrett shouldn't have gone completely unhinged. You can't tell me he has never heard smack talk from somebody before.

I'm not saying he never heard smack talk. I'm also not saying Garrett was justified.

I'm saying that Rudolph did something to push Garrett's buttons, and it worked. He poked the bear. Hard.

He poked the bear.

Mason tried to rip the bear's helmet off. I'm not myles garrett, but if someone used a slur against me, i wouldn't sit on that information for a week in trying to defend myself as opposed to making sure anyone and everyone knew it as immediately as possible?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Correct.

You and I have the luxury of contemplating it from home two weeks later. Garrett would likely say the same thing right now. In fact, I think he did.

I don't think this in any way excuses Garrett's behavior. But I don't think he just came unhinged for no reason at all, and I think Rudolph also deserves a suspension for what we actually saw - tugging at Garrett's helmet, and following him down the field and saying something to him, whatever it was.

It ABSOLUTELY does not matter what Rudolph said. Garrett played it all wrong.

You get up, say nothing, walk away, and then ask Siri to set a reminder for the next Steelers game.

Leonard. Duh.

Correct.

Likewise, I think Rudolph also deserved a suspension.

Trash talk =/= calling him a racial slur

Being a middle-class white male, I'm not even going to pretend to speculate how that word can personally affect someone of color.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Yeah, that's the worst thing I've seen in sports since probably the Malice at the Palace. Absolutely unreal.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Can you imagine if Malice at the Palace had taken place in the social media age? We could have gotten HD cell phone videos tweeted from the crowd a couple seats from Artest and Jackson reigning blows upon fans

suspend him till the rest of the season

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

suspend him till the rest of the season

The rest of the season starts next weekend. So you want him suspended until their next game? That's some Florida State level stuff right there. ;^)

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I think he should be banned. There is no room for that kind of behavior/reaction regardless of what happened beforehand.

Do I think that will happen? No. I think he get's 16 games.

However, if it were Tom Brady instead of Mason Rudolph, you damn right he'd be banned from playing again.

NFL is as bad as the NCAA when it comes to discipline inconsistencies. They should realize that there is no room for what happened in the sport under any circumstances and take unprecedented action against Garrett.

After watching the replay there are several players that need to be fined, suspended, or banned. Garrett at a minimum needs to be suspended if not banned, the Steeler's player that came to the rescue and proceeded to kick Garrett in the head needs a suspension, and even Rudolph needs to be looked at for a potential fine since (on video at least) he appears to be trying to take off Garrett's helmet.

I don't care what Rudolph said or did (he should likely be suspended for his part as well), what Myles Garrett did was criminal. He should never play in the NFL again and should be charged with assault.

Is it basketball season yet?

Y'all gon' make me lose my mind
Up in here, up in here

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

"I know who I am and the guys within these walls know who I am and that's not me, I'm not going to do anything to try and hurt this team or take out any player outside the rule book. I'm just going to keep playing this game the way it's supposed to be played and that's violently but passionately." - Miles Garrett on September 19, 2019

"Miles Swings for the Fences"

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Contact sports gets a pass when it comes to criminal assault. This action is as close as it gets. There are only six games left in season. He should be suspended for the rest of the season. As to criminal charges, fortunately he hit him on he soft side of the helmet. So my feeling is they should let that pass and not charge him.

Rudolph actually has to file them if he wants.

Find someone like Maurkice Pouncey to be friends with. Probably getting multiple games suspended and fined and would probably do it again if he had to.

He has no regrets. He is most certainly "about that life" as they say.

Well he was suspended indefinitely for the regular season and the playoffs. Myles Garrett that is.

What's
Important
Now

With the option to add more if needed.

Which, probably should be needed.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

What playoffs?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Look Rudolph was asking for it, walking around like a peacock, wearing that QB number on his chest. Everyone knows that QBs need to be put in their place. Any time you get a chance to assault a QB with a deadly weapon you have to, it's the warriors code. I am just disappointed that no one on crutches got into the melee.

/S

EDIT: increased size of /s

Sarcasm noted, but you watch the film, he did provoke Garrett.

"I'm not defending Myles Garrett's disgusting act of violence, I'm just saying Mason Rudolph got what he deserved."

Said nobody, ever.

It you feel like this describes you, then that's on you.

I'm pointing out that it doesn't describe anyone's actual or stated opinion (that I'm aware of).

I doubt even Garrett thinks Rudolph deserved to get hit in the head with a helmet.

Colonel Mustard ... In The Kitchen ... with a Wrench? No?
Myles Garrett... In The Field... with a Helmet?

Hokie Club member since 2017

Myles Garrett crossed the line, should be suspended at a minimum for the rest of the season

BUT

I bet Rudolph will think twice before he tries to rip someone's helmet off their head again.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Honestly this gif makes me think that Rudolph wasn't trying to rip Garrett's helmet off. He was definitely twisting his helmet/head and pull the facemask down. However, if he was trying to rip the helmet off, why didn't his left arm ever make an upward motion rather than continuing to pull the facemask down toward Garrett's chest?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

You might be right, he was simply trying to break his neck

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I don't have an allegiance to either team (probably dislike the Steelers more to be honest) and am just trying to objectively assess what I see on the video. Clearly you have your mind made up but I have no desire to argue over it because, again, I don't care nor have allegiance to either team or player involved.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I don't have a dog in it either. I just don't like seeing Rudolph skate on this as the victim when he clearly initiated the entire thing. Don't start a fight you can't finish. The "late hit" argument is debatable, Garrett had him wrapped up, likely didn't know if he had the ball still or not. It was a football play. Be a grown up, stand up, and take your loss and go to the locker room.

For him to either try to rip the helmet off Garrett, or twist his head and neck all around while almost pulling his helmet off, then kick him in the nuts - then further escalate it when his OL guy had Garrett separated by charging at him....it was bush-league and cowardly.

Garrett fully deserves the lengthy suspension he got. As do Pouncey and Ogunjobi. Mason Rudolph deserves to be there with them for his role in the altercation.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

His right hand is clearly trying to pull the back of the helmet up over his head. I assume he wasn't trying to pull the facemask up because of the chin strap.

He's clearly grabbing and twisting the helmet. If I was trying to rip off someone's helmet, the first thing I would do is wrap my fingers under the lip of the back of the helmet and pull upward. Rudolph never does that so that's why I am not convinced of the intent to rip off the helmet.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

It looks to me like he tried lining his whole arm against the bottom of the helmet, and it slipped when he pulled. Also, considering who he was trying to pick a fight with, I'm not sure there was enough forethought to know to grab with his fingers instead.

Mason Rudolph should be suspended as well, IMO

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I agree with you. Rudolph was the one who started the fight with somebody bigger than he is and kept going after Garrett. Garrett should not have used Rudolph's helmet as a weapon... Rudolph should get punished as well--not quiet as severely as Garrett, but still more than a "That's not nice. You shouldn't do that."

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I'm with you on this, he's probably pissed at being tackled like that with 6 seconds left in a 2 score game, but what is Garrett supposed to do? It's a clean hit, not late, he doesn't slam Rudolph, and doesn't land with his body weight on him.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's a late hit to at least 1/3 of the QBs in the league. He had both of Rudolph's arms wrapped and finished the tackle welllll after that ball was out with every opportunity to stop.

Regardless it doesn't matter who started it. It matters who bashed a guy in the head with a helmet no matter what degree of "started it" it was it doesn't make the reaction any better.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

every opportunity to stop.

Not so sure about this, I can't find video of the actual tackle now, naturally it's all the fight....but if I recall correctly, Garrett had his face in Rudolph's chest, had no way of knowing if the ball was out or not, and was already in the process of dragging him down.

I could be wrong, but that is what I recall.

Regardless it doesn't matter who started it. It matters who bashed a guy in the head with a helmet no matter what degree of "started it" it was it doesn't make the reaction any better.

And I don't think anyone is trying to justify what Garrett did, just pointing out that Rudolph is no innocent victim in all of it

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Nah. They were both pretty much vertical at first contact, which again is well after the ball was gone.
'<---' That part was a lie
https://youtu.be/_PMHlURlxus?t=15

Better in the replay: https://youtu.be/_PMHlURlxus?t=85

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Thanks for finding that...I wouldn't throw a flag on that one

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Me neither but they get thrown all the time.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

that's a late hit? Garrett is so close to Rudolph when the ball is thrown, it's already behind his head. Garrett maybe assumes he still has the ball, maybe he doesn't. But how's he supposed to pull out of this? Then, rather than spearing Rudolph or slamming Rudolph, he bear hugs and rolls him down. None of Garrett's weight winds up on Rudolph -- this is exactly how DL are coached to tackle QBs to avoid the "ticky-tack" roughing penalties that seem to get called more and more frequently.

The whole thing then escalated more when Rudolph started grabbing at Garrett's helmet.

By no means does this justify Garrett's healmet swinging etc. But some people are talking about this like Garrett sucker slammed him after the play and decided to rip his helmet off and beat him with it for good measure and I just don't think I see that at all

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah that's much closer than I originally thought. Still think Rudolph and his Line which also reacted to the timing of the tackle were correct in hitting the subjective part of the foul:

A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as "stuffing" a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above.

Note that part of that rule that is outside of the quote puts the responsibility of knowing where the ball is on the defender so that doesn't come into play.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

If Gerald McCoy was guilty of roughing the passer on Aaron Rodgers on Sunday (which he wasn't), then this is definitely roughing the passer.

Yeah this was kinda my point on the initial post where I said 1/3 of the league QBs this is roughing. Was it egregious? No. Was it something that could have been called and QBs constantly complain about and some get flags absolutely.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

yeah, but Mason != Aaron. Brady, Rogers, and Brees could turn at the ref and the flag would be halfway to the ground already. Rudolph doesn't have that kind of pull in the league yet.

Garrett started it first with the tackle that probably would have been called roughing had it been a name-brand QB instead of Rudolph. Rudolph escalated it first with the helmet pull and a possible but dubiously-intentional nut shot, but then Garrett escalated it well beyond where Rudolph had taken it.

No. the tackle, late or not, roughing or not, is a football play. It happens every game. You get up. Take your 15 yards if it is a flag, and carry on like an adult.

It's not Garrett's fault that Rudolph was upset for having a shitty game

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Regardless, what set Rudolph off in the first place was a tackle that he probably perceived as dirty. He then chose to escalate beyond a football play. That's all I was trying to say, not to excuse Rudolph's actions but to explain. It's not like he just randomly decided to be an asshole and pull some random player's helmet off, he probably thought the hit was dirty (even if it wasn't) and escalated the situation and probably deserves some amount of punishment as well.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This is unbelievable. It is literally Garrett's fault.

You know what else happens every game? Illegal use of the hands, hands to the face. That happens every game. Facemask penalties happen every game.

You know what never happens? Someone ripping the helmet off a QB and trying to seriously harm him by smashing him in the head with it.

Someone grabs your facemask, you get up, take your 15 yards, and carry on like an adult. You don't commit aggravated assault.

jesus christ, of course what Garrett did is his fault. No one is debating that.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

He did, but that was just a normal fight. Normal fights happen periodically in the NFL. Remember when Andre Johnson and Cortland Finnegan threw hands and didn't get suspended?

Garrett escalated it to the point where he was literally using a weapon. And the worst part is - if you watch the video, he was about to swing the helmet a second time before the O-lineman intervened. I don't even know if it's much of an exaggeration to say that Garrett might have killed Rudolph if he wasn't stopped.

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed in the number of you defending such a disgusting act of violence. I thought we were better than this.

I haven't seen a single post on here (granted I haven't read them all) that is defending Myles Garrett or what he did.

Β―\_(ツ)_/Β―

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

757hokie83 be like

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Key quotes from your link:

Myles Garrett crossed the line, should be suspended at a minimum for the rest of the season

Garrett fully deserves the lengthy suspension he got. As do Pouncey and Ogunjobi. Mason Rudolph deserves to be there with them for his role in the altercation.

And I don't think anyone is trying to justify what Garrett did, just pointing out that Rudolph is no innocent victim in all of it

jesus christ, of course what Garrett did is his fault. No one is debating that.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Correct. There have been more than a few posts on here incorrectly interpreting others' posts as defending Garrett, but no posts actually defending Garrett.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Semantics. Call it what you want. Call it blaming Rudolph for starting it and rationalizing Garrett's reaction. Or call it defending Garrett. Either way it's bullshit.

and rationalizing Garrett's reaction.

'cept no one is doing that.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I just don't like seeing Rudolph skate on this as the victim when he clearly initiated the entire thing.

For him to either try to rip the helmet off Garrett, or twist his head and neck all around while almost pulling his helmet off, then kick him in the nuts - then further escalate it when his OL guy had Garrett separated by charging at him....it was bush-league and cowardly.

You might be right, he [Rudolph] was simply trying to break his neck

You are.

Bullshit. None of that is "rationalizing" Garrett smashing a football helmet on another persons head.

I'll say it once again since you ignored all the other times:

Myles

Garrett

is

100%

to

blame

for

what

he

did.

It

is

inexcusable.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

It's possible to condemn something and to rationalize it at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Have

a

nice

night.

It's also possible to admit that Mason Rudolph escalated the situation on multiple occasions without defending or rationalizing what Garrett did. You're reading what you want to out of it. No sweat off my back.

Garrett's a chump, that was a disgusting act and he should and is being punished appropriately.

Rudolph's a chump, that was dirty what he did after the hit, and stupid to escalate it after Garrett took his helmet. He should not be viewed as an innocent victim, and should face some form of punishment as well.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Not on here, but Twitter is... ummmm....

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Classic 2019. "We have differing opinions! You deserve traumatic brain injuries until you agree with me!"

Yeah, this guy is even taking pride in everyone who is calling him out on it, too

as you said, classic 2019.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

This is every recruiting thread since last season.

I don't think copying stuff from Twitter that clearly violates CG is a good idea...

Twitter is a vile and disgusting display of humanity.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Twitter is a vile and disgusting display of inhumanity.

FIFY

I think the overwhelming consensus is that Garrett went completely nutbar and should sit the rest of the season, at least. Swinging the helmet at someone...yeesh.

I think what is getting misinterpreted is that people are pointing out Mason Rudolph was being an asshole and should also be punished, albeit a lesser one than Garrett. Whatever the hell he was trying to do to Garrett's helmet or his nuts or running up on him after they'd been separated was stupid. I don't think anyone is saying these actions justify Garrett's actions or should reduce his punishment. But Rudolph should also face some sort of punishment for being an asshole.

In my opinion it's totally irrelevant. If Garrett didn't act like a complete psychopath, nobody would be asking for Rudolph to be punished. What Rudolph did happens in every single game. Guys grab facemasks and helmets at the bottom of the pile every week. But because Garrett loses his mind and tries to maim him, now we want Rudolph to be suspended too? Flag him for 15 yards, but if we're going to suspend everyone who grabs an opponent by the facemask, a quarter of the league's linemen will be suspended every week.

Agree - I think the main reason Rudolph is getting attention for his actions is because we've all had 24+ hours to look at the clips over and over again and focus in on what each did. Had Garrett not reacted this would at most have been a personal foul penalty on Rudolph, if it was even seen by the refs. After film review the NFL may have handed out a slap-on-the-wrist fine in addition to the PF.

Neither Garrett or Rudolph had any justification for their actions, and they need to be held accountable.

Taking all of this in I think this was a legit football play up until the point Rudolph was actively trying to take off Garrett's helmet (not sure if the nut kick was before or after that, but that's part of this as well). I dont think the hit was late, and I think Garrett was just finishing the tackle. If Rudolph felt otherwise then I think he's in the wrong line of business.

I think there is some component of this that has led Rudolph to decide on not pursuing any legal action.

Would he win if he did? Could be.

Would it be pointed out in a court of law his own douchey actions? Most likely.

Not an excuse for Garrett, but most people don't go full psycho on national TV without some sort of reason, perceived or otherwise.

Myles will miss games next year too would be my bet, and appropriately so.

Welp, baseball once had a bat fight:
Juan Marichal In 1965 hit a dude with a bat. Suspended 8 games and fined $1,700.

FOSTERS: Australian for defense

The city of Cleveland has re-entered the chat

Was Rudolph being a dick? Looks like it but that crap happens in almost every game. We have all seen players talk shit, punches thrown, players get stomped and hell...a certain Clemson LB "checked a guy's oil". I have never seen someone make such a bad decision as to swing a helmet at someone's unprotected head. It is a whole new level of stupid. Trying to justify Garrett's response is just as stupid.

Yes, Rudolph was being a dick.

But no, Garrett's reaction wasn't close to being justified.

*moved*

Can we all just agree that DeCastro (Steelers #66) put on a clinic in de-escalation? He tackled Garrett and just sat on him.