OC speculation thread

We have a couple of threads worth of speculation about potential DC hires, thanks to Bud announcing before the season. Meanwhile there seems to be some fairly regular, if quiet, #sauces implying that we may have a new OC next season too.

I can't see Fuente hiring someone who isn't familiar with our basic style of offense (shotgun spread, H-back, QB run threat w/ QB RPO, and QB-RB read option, etc) but our system isn't that much different from most run-first spreads around the country, so there should be a ton of coaches familiar with the fundamentals of Fuentes's offense.

- Who do you want to see as the OC hire?
- Who do you think is a realistic OC hire?
- Does Fuente promote from within, reach back to previous members of his staff, or go outside the family so to speak?

Personally I'm think it would be cool to see Wiggins come back as OC or at least co-OC. He's familiar with Fuente's system, has coached two positions in Fuente's offense and is a dynamic personality who really connects with his players. He is also already familiar with the rest of the offensive coaching staff, aside from Williams. Risk is that he's not cut out for the big-picture part of being a coordinator or the play calling element yet, and P5/ACC is not necessarily the best place to learn while doing.

Another consideration is whether Cornelsen would be retained as QB coach if he's relieved of OC duties or totally cut loose to pursue a FCS/G5 head coaching position. Seems that Fuente has his back, so I am guessing he is retained and perhaps not just as QB coach but maybe as Co-OC & QB Coach.

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

Wait, are there people saying Cornelsen will be gone? I haven't heard anything along those lines. I would be perfectly fine with that. In the second half, we were in the red zone. 1st and 10, pass. 2nd and 10, pass. 3rd and 10, quarterback draw. I was throwing shit.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

The first third of the game we were 1st Run, 2nd Run, 3rd 15+ yard pass. Into a 5 DL front. With a QB that doesn't exactly have a lot of real game throwing experience.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

The lack of confidence the coaches had in QP was astonishing. He threw some beautiful passes against UNC. He threw some good passes in the ND game as well that just got dropped. ND was a great situation for him to get actual game experience. A non-conference game in November against a good defense? Give the man some good experience.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

30 mph winds is going to be tough to get anything going through the air....especially when you're dead set on beating them deep.

It's funny cause I usually complain we never take deep shots. I'm pretty sure we averaged the highest Y/ATT passing in the worst passing conditions we've played in with the least proven passer on the team.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

we threw almost 30 passes in what was not ideal weather conditions, not sure what else there was to do to get him experience

Give the guy an easier pass when its blowing 30 and he's 0-8 or whatever he started out at.

Our offensive coordinator is awful and there were a lot of prime examples in that game.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

so bubble screens? I'm sure that would go over well with the fan base.

(I posted this here because its just kinda where I got to in the thread when I felt the need to speak up but this isn't directed at you heuplek you were just in the line of fire bud, no hard feelings)

almost all of his underneath throws were dropped. the only one I really remember being caught was hezzy on a 3rd down that picked up a 3rd down and drew a targeting penalty that was picked up. we had to keep the backs and TEs in to block and that severely limits your dink and dunk game outside of the screen game. (with the way our WRs blocked Saturday the screen game would have resulted in a disaster) another part of the dink and dunk game is catching the D in zone (which ND almost exclusively played man coverage on the outside and dared us to beat them deep) and having your WRs sit in holes in the zone and your QB make quick reads and be able to scan the field quickly to find the open guy. this also if a poor read is made or poor throw can end disastrously. I was completely OK with the passing game plan. throw the ball out to your WRs and win one on one battles and keep from turning the ball over. if big play tre doesn't have a horrible game he catches 3 or 4 more balls that would have went for big gains and no one complains. the squandered red zone opportunity above I'm eh with the calls but I liked throwing on 1st and 2nd down. I would have went fade ball on first instead of out to the wide side that's a tough throw but if you read Frenches breakdown BOTH plays should have resulted in TDs with a better throw from QP both almost resulted in INTS so 3rd down playing safe and getting points was really the only option left at that time. we tried to score and put it away. we couldn't. so we took the points made it a TD game and relied on our D to win the game who up to the last drive was playing pretty good football. its easy to come on here and 2nd guess but that game wasn't on corny. He coached what was available and to the skill set of the guys he has, the skills just weren't enough to get over the hump. In one of the other articles we written on here it talked about the talent gap between us and teams like ND and if we were ready to compete with the "big dogs" clearly we are but competing and winning are 2 different things, to do it on a consistent level your players have to make some plays when plays aren't always there or in one on one situations. we didn't do enough of that Saturday. plain and simply.

(personally I am not on the fire cornelson train but I'm also not confident in his ability but there has been so much chatter of late about fu or kill having a lot of influence in the offense since the duke game so I don't think its fair to come on here after a win and praise the "new offense" with kill and fu calling plays or helping out or whatever you think they are doing and then turn around after a loss and blame cornelson like he magically took the reins back when we started losing and didn't let those guys influence or call plays all of the sudden. its one of 2 things, either cornelson called good games against UNC and UM or fu/ kill called a bad game against ND. it cant be the other way around. )

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Thanks for the comment. I don't disagree with anything you said. To my memory (which is bad) I don't think we tried many if any slants or mid yardage curls in Quincy's first 5-6 attempts. I'm all for taking a shot downfield on his first throw, because no one was expecting it but we kept getting him in throwing situations where he's have to let one roll. I can see maybe trying to take a couple even to try to loosen up underneath coverage but for the first 8 drives (outside of the short field touchdown) was like bashing our head into the wall with 3 similar plays then a punt.

Seconds half I think we did much better, getting the ball outside and getting the ball moving. Then shot our self in the foot in scoring position a few times with again seemingly bad situational play calling.

I'm certainly no expert, just a couch coach who thinks its easier than it is but to your last point I haven't praised the offensive play calling at all this season. So I might be stupid but I'm consistently stupid.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

i think QP doesn't throw a good slant ball. its something they regularly used with RW and a little less with HH but ive seen QP throw 2 slants one was dropped Saturday by caleb and was on the money, the other was against UNC and hit the UNC defender in back of the head or something crazy in one of the late OT periods. he also threw what could be considered a slant to Robinson in the ND game they had a bunch formation and Robinson slanted underneath everyone as they broke into their routes and it was significantly behind Robinson and he dropped it, had he hit him in stride with that one it would have gone for a pretty decent gain and atleast a first down. I just don't think the staff is comfortable with QP throwing over the middle of the field in traffic, much like ryan willis they gave him really simple throws and almost NO reads at all in the passing game. Sometimes as an OC its not that you don't have the plays to call but the players to run the plays you want to call. I understand its the coaches job to prepare the kids to execute but its a lot of people don't realize that you can coach your butt off and some kids pick it up day one and some kids never do. some kids will be tom brady and some will be eli manning. you simply cant blame everything on coaching. some things are just no ones faults. we all have limitations and I think our coaches in this game did a decent job of coaching to our players strengths. that's really all you can ask. (again not saying you are blaming coaches or really directing all points towards you, just kinda rambling about our football team right now and what seems to be a general consensus about some of the play calling and talent development)

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Wish I could give more than one leg for each of these two comments, 904. I don't think anyone's in love with Cornelson (or any OC that's the OC of their team), but people need to at least read this coach's perspective before (over) reacting every time a play or series of plays doesn't work. It's almost always more than just the playcalling.

They basically mirrored bud fosters strategy against anOSU and it worked. Dare their receivers and QB to beat us over the top with good throws, and we couldn't in the elements

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

What about Matt Canada? He did really well at Pitt and then went to LSU. Not sure what happened to him after that, but he was at VT's fall camp this year (like Jerry Kill was).

That's a great idea...we need a reason to use more South Park gifs:

In all seriousness, I thought he did a great job at Pitt.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

β€œWhen life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

From what I've read on r/cfb (so take it for what it's worth), apparently he doesn't play well with others from the sounds of it. It might be what's holding him back from opportunities.

He was the OC at Maryland under Durkin.

But he got there right as the ship was sinking.

Canada is a culture cancer. This has been confirmed by a lot of people in the media, and his erratic results suggest this as well. We don't want him here.

Twitter me

sounds like Matt Canada must be one Adamant Cat

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Nice

Another consideration is whether Cornelsen would be retained as QB coach

Hope that's not the case. QB development hasn't been very impressive under Corn, and I think there's actually a legitimate argument to be made that our last two starters regressed.

Agree. I think this staff has a mental block of "age" being a limiting factor to our talent and instead of developing them appropriately, we're spoon feeding them and telling them they're not ready.

I've seen people argue that there is a legitimate argument to be made. I haven't seen them make that argument.

I also remember, in the not too distant past, people claiming that Fuente didn't correctly evaluate Josh Jackson's skillset. For a rebuttal to that, see: Maryland, 2019.

For complaints about a college OC, see: Every college football fanbase.

I've seen people argue that there is a legitimate argument to be made. I haven't seen them make that argument

That's a lot of arguing

uva - the taint of the ACC
XL Jockstraps 34 - Ascots 31
#15 Straight

If we're being honest, it's mostly complaining.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Kliff Kingsberry OC
Veneables DC

We'd only need every donor to donate 100% of salary to afford them. Worth it.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Kliff is not leaving an NFL head coaching job to be OC of a middling ACC coastal team

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Not sure if you didn't catch heuplek's /s or I'm not catching your /s...?

i didn't think it was /s as much as it was just unrealistic wishful thinking

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's the point of /s

the point of /s is to indicate sarcasm. there's not much sarcastic about "We'd only need every donor to donate 100% of salary to afford them. Worth it."

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That literally is sarcasm.

Edit: sorry, I really don't mean to be a dick, but his comment was quite obviously sarcastic and in jest. I'll stop now, though. Go Hokies, no hard feelings!

i guess i focused too much on the implication of the statement (that it would take a ton of money to get both of them but it would be worth it) rather than the actual statement

edit: this comment caught some downvotes wow

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I upped :)

This is a really weird hill to die on.

Sheldon? Is that you?

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Are you an alien that has never heard sarcasm before?

Chad Morris after he is fired from Arkansas. He's an OC not a HC

I dig this idea. But I wonder if he ends up back at Clemson if they lose Tony Elliot and Jeff Scott.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

didn't he build SMU from virtually nothing? It's Morris's guys winning right now. Of course Dykes deserves a lot of credit too. That said, I don't think there's enough data out there to say Morris is or is not a HC. He was at SMU for 3 years and built it into a bowl-level team. Now, the team is ranked with players he recruited. He's been at Arkansas for 2 years and not successful yet, took over a bad team that's still bad (maybe worse, idk).

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

It's not very many of Morris's guys at SMU they have 30 transfers playing this year. Sonny went recruiting college players and built a team. Their QB was at Texas, WR at WVU and so forth. That team was built through the portal.

If we wanted to play big boy football, this is the move. I'd imagine he'd command $1M or more, but I think it'd be money well spent.

Probably 2-2.5mil at a school where the head coach makes 5-6

Its worth keeping an eye on the Arkansas' game against WKU this weekend. WKU's QB, Ty Storey, was the Arkansas QB last year. Morris went to the portal looking for an upgrade and Storey transferred out. Statistically he is putting up better numbers at WKU then his replacements are at Arkansas. Obviously there is a far different level of competition in conference USA than the SEC, but if he comes into Fayetteville beats his former team, Chad's seat is probably on fire at that point. Whether Arkansas has the money to fire him is probably the bigger question at that point.

Reading some Arkansas message board chatter it sounds like Morris may have one the same problem's Willie had at FSU. A shitty oline. Probably the hardest position group to turn around quickly.

Arkansas has shitty every position. Bret really was shitty there.

Clemson fans were quite suspect of his play calling, and though Elliott/Scott was an upgrade.

That said, I do think Morris will be good HC. He's taken such difficult jobs; you have to grade him on curve.

Twitter me

ODU has a TE/Run Game Coordinator that has P5 OC experience and a solid history with recruiting in Virginia.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I think it's time to resurrect and repurpose this classic:

β€œYou got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

You have defiled the sacred use of this gif and it's purpose.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

so....

RichRod for OC?

Let's Go

HOKIES

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

My bad! I was just trying to give you an assist ;)

Meanwhile there seems to be some fairly regular, if quiet, #sauces implying that we may have a new OC next season too.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I legit don't care who it as long as they can

1) Recruit
2) Develop our QBs
3) Can adjust their gameplan on the fly when things aren't working

Cuts ties with Corny and get a real OC in here. Fuente has kept too many of his buddies to suit me. And it shows in coaching and recruiting..

Jack R.

I actually like Corny, because I remember life before him. With a good QB that can run, the system can produce points.

Your QB leading the team in rushing is not an offensive scheme.

Apparently I need to clarify that this is in context of the comment its replying to. A QB leading the team in rushing is not a viable offensive scheme in the way we used Evans.

Edit: in my apparent clarification I have seen the confusion and dispute on my replies. I read the initial comment wrong. I'm not saying a RPO is a bad offense.

I will stand on the fact that Corn has not proven he can run a read offense effectively with a cabinet full of quarterbacks.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Let me know when we have a Lamar Jackson level athlete on our team.

We can point out once in a generation talent at QB all we want those aren't offensive schemes. A Jerod Evans/QP 6'5 240+ QB battering ram isn't a scheme and as we've seen isn't a formula to sustained success.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I guess I shouldn't have generalized this I think it was pretty obvious the OP was talking about that Evans offense that Corny ran. That offense does not at all equal Jalen Hurts making plays with his feet.

We haven't run an actual RPO offense at all.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Mike Vick would like a word.

So would modern offensive football.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Not to defend Corny too much, but when Hooker was the QB that wasn't the case.

Our offense isn't good when Hooker is the QB. Our offense is better with Hooker but it isn't good.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I do not agree with this assessment in the slightest

There's not much to go on but we have not looked good. Certainly not consistent. We continue to struggle moving the ball and its not like he's played top notch defenses yet. As far as where our program should be with the caliber of players we have on offense we're not good.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

You're entitled to you opinion, but in the games Hooker has played I would not come close to classifying us as "Struggling to move the ball".

With Hooker playing the whole game, the Hokies scored 42 points against Miami.

And I just checked... to score 42 points, the ball must move.

Leonard. Duh.

I mean we scored 42 points on 330 total yards. We actually did move the ball pretty well on 3rd then struggled on 3rd against UNC. Statistically we're much better with Hooker. We're not consistent.

The point of this argument is this offense is not as good as it should be and the limiting factor is not the players. It's Corn.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I'm just not ready to burn it down with the coaching staff. Fr. Austin Cannon is a scout player on most P5 teams, and he's been balling out lately. That's coaching.

My only real question with the coaches is why it took so long to get Hooker going.

Leonard. Duh.

I mean we have a fundamental disagreement if that's your only question. QB development, 2 deep decisions, miserable play calling, failure to adapt in game,underutilization of mismatches, running a H-back/TE at tailback in a single back set.

I'll remind you that Corn is not the o line coach or in charge of developing the o line.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I think we moved the ball decent against Miami... but then again we didn't really have to because we had two quarterbacks throwing us the ball.

Miami is a hard game to quantify. Once you go up 28, it's kill clock mode.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Once you go up 28, it's kill clock mode

which we damn near fucked up

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Once you go up 28, it's kill clock mode

It's Miami (not that it should even matter). Up 28, step on the neck, shove a hose down their throat while they're drowning, etc.

We should never go into 'kill clock mode' midway through the 2nd quarter.

First time starting QB at Miami... I am fine with kill clock mode.

Why risk pressing the attack to run up the score for no reason and have Hendon throw a bad pick, or fumble the ball, etc. and give Miami momentum and possibly free points?

I'd rather leave the kid's confidence high and get his first win vs trying to just run up the score.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

surely there's a happy balance between "run up the score" and "kill the clock in turtle mode by the second quarter"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Up 28, step on the neck, shove a hose down their throat while they're drowning, etc.

Hear....Hear!

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

I love that William's is playing again for Miami and hasnt thrown another INT. We just really messed with him.

After further evidence I don't agree with that assessment either

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

In college? Probably alright, but you don't want the QB to be a battering ram, and avoids contact where possible. Otherwise, you're just asking the guy to break down like Cam Newton over the last few years.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Evans didn't like being used as a battering ram. I think that is one of the reasons he left early.

That and he stopped going to class. He would not have been academically eligible year 2.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

If that's the case, I would assume he stopped going to class because he had already decided he wasn't going to be a battering ram the next season (i.e. NFL draft)

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Amen

if it's gauche to talk about interviewing for a position that's filled, it's gauche for the fan base to speculate on a replacement before we know there's for sure gonna be one

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

we are not going to getting a new OC...please stop...the only way its happening is if Corny leaves for Greener pastures...he's not exactly a hot commodity at the moment so don't expect anyone new.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

You may very well be correct but there have been suggestions by a few with sauces that think Corny will be gone.

Im rooting for Cornelson to progress...

That being said if we were to hire a new OC that I would be excited for - it would be the one were about to play.

Wake Forest OC Warren Ruggiero

Ruggiero has been an offensive coordinator for 26 years at six different universities before Wake Forest, and has tutored quarterbacks for 27 years at the college level. His offense has finished in the top 10 in the country in either total offense or scoring offense at all six stops.

Ruggiero's units have finished in the top six in the country in passing offense at the last four stops. He has coached an All-American QB at five of his last six coaching jobs.

Solid.

Yep, I would think Ruggiero is in the top tier.

I don't think we're getting a new OC. Maybe a new special teams coordinator though.

Twitter me

Jerry Kill.

Unless Fuente pulls double duty, which could save us cash to hire better at other spots.

Wishful thinking - I would really like for us to get Body Reeder from North Texas if this is really happening. At South Dakota State, he has the best balanced offense. This is his first year at UNT and he's already made progress. He's working with Seth Litrell, formerly of UNC, could pull some good information from him on he ACC. His QB threw for 7 touchdowns this past weekend.

I'm not sure if this will be a good fit with Fuente's offense or not. But both Oklahoma guys.
What is Jerry Kill's role in all of this, is he the de facto OC in waiting?

in other moves, I would recommend that Adam Lecternberg go back to a Staff role instead of coach and hire a QB coach who could develop our younger QBs. Sometimes its too much of a burden on the OC to be in charge of the offense and coach a position.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Crazy to see Bodie Reeder's name brought up on here. I went to Elementary and Middle school with the guy in Evansville Indiana in the late 90s. Great coaching family, awesome work under Gundy at OK State which has propelled his career. He was QB coach for Gundy and was (partially) responsible for Mason Rudolphs improvements his Senior year. I know most people will think he's too young, but we all knew that dude would be doing big things in the coaching circuit by age 10.

And yes, my Dad has diabetes.

A link for anyone interested, get to know the name:

Reeder, 32, spent two seasons at Eastern Washington, guiding its offense to 43.1 points per game in 2018 (fourth in the Football Championship Subdivision). His offense averaged 528.2 yards per game, which ranked third in the country.

https://meangreensports.com/coaches.aspx?rc=339

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Are there any people with actual sources that say this is a possibility. Everything I have seen from Fuente points to him living or dying by Cornelson. You're talking about replacing both coordinators going in to what is likely the do or die year for Fuente. Making a bunch of fundamental changes to your staff going in to the season where you have to win some games sounds awfully desperate.

It's Time to go to Work

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Are there any people with actual sources that say this is a possibility.

Yes.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

If you get a chance can you link me to a TKP thread that has one of these comments or quote it? I haven't seen any so I'd like to know what was said.

It's Time to go to Work

I didn't hear it from TKP. I have heard secondhand info that changes are coming. I can't get any more specific because I know that kind of stuff is frowned upon and people have gotten banned for it. And I'm not in the know enough to get specific anyway haha.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

And this right here, people, is why you shouldn't skewer everyone with insider info that doesn't have a documented source.

That's the problem. You can't document a source. No one on 247 is giving away their sources.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Then it's not a verifiable source.

Edit: added the word "verifiable"

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

that's not how journalism works

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This is an internet forum, but unnamed sources can get fairly marginal even if it's journalism.

Two verified independent sources = news.

Even in published sports journalism you see "sources close to the situation" they're almost never disclosed. The only reason you trust them more is that they have a national presence.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Correct. Based on the reputation of the publication.

But people inside the publication do attempt to verify and judge the veracity of the source using a second verifiable source. Which is how they keep their reputation.

So in the same way that you'd use your own judgement to trust that national insider based on their reputation, you'd use the same judgement to determine if you trust a forum insider based on their reports in previous situations.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

It's still just rumor until it's somehow verified.

Sure, some people get it right more often than they get it wrong. But I've seen a lot of stuff in forums that was predicted, but never happened.

Suddenly, people forget all that when they hear something they agree with.

It's still just rumor until it's somehow verified.

Which is exactly how it works in every day reporting.
Simulated scenario:
"Sources close to the situation tell me the VTKey is going to drop this point" -Rumor at this point anyone can chose to believe or not believe this source.

*some time later*

VTKey: "After careful consideration, I've decided to drop this point" - Confirmed.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

One of my biggest beefs with journalism is the phrase "high level sources", which often turns out to be someone who supports the narrative of the publication giving an opinion.

sure. but reporters have been sentenced to jail time for refusing to name their sources. that doesn't mean the source didn't exist.

https://www.rcfp.org/newspaper-held-contempt-balco-case/

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Sure. But that's a rarity. More often, a publication gets away with a sketchy source for an opinion article.

More and more, publications publish opinion as news. Informed citizens need to know the difference.

More often, a publication gets away with a sketchy source for an opinion article.

Maybe it's just me, but i think the agenda usually comes from the source trying to shape public opinion or narrative rather than from the publication trying to justify a predetermined one. But of course, the two can certainly align.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

"Sure. But that's a rarity."

First, we probably are getting awful close to the community guidelines on the substance of these posts. Second, that's a ridiculous generalization to make. Are there media outlets and employee who don't abide by that? Sure. But to say that actually abiding by journalistic ethics is a "rarity" is unnecessarily insulting to journalists.

And for the record, I am not a journalist. But I think these types of statements are unwarranted and quite frankly dangerous.

I was saying that a journalist getting sentenced to jail time for not revealing a source is a rarity. It only happens if the journalist defies a court order.

That's fact, and hardly a dangerous thing to say.

" Sure. But that's a rarity. More often, a publication gets away with a sketchy source for an opinion article."

If that's what you meant, then that's not what you wrote given the context.

More often than getting arrested for protecting a source (a rarity), publications publish an opinion of a biased source in a news article (happens too often).

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

I don't think you know how sources work.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

OK, please explain how it does work, then.

No one is ever sharing who their sources are. Period.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Sure, and that's what they call "rumor".

Because even people in the room sometimes get it wrong, people overstate things, people misunderstand the situation.

Sure but that's not what we are arguing here. But moving the goal posts isn't new for you. Have a good one Key.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult anybody, or denigrate anyone's connections.

No offense taken. It's just a matter of knowing that no one is going to reveal sources. It's on each of us to determine whether or not we believe them. We all know it can't be verified.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I wasn't really saying anyone should reveal their sources, only that we (not knowing the sources) must treat it as rumor.

We have to treat the person giving the information as the source, and people with a good track record do have some credibility.

From JUGS in the ND game thread

Corn is gone just breathe and get through the next few weeks.

I've seen insider-ey posts on TKP and TSL, implying it is a possibility. Of course that is not solid info, but that's why I put 'speculation' in the title.

I can't imagine Fuente tying his career to Cornelson's success.

I would venture to guess that if a change were made here, it wouldn't be a brand new guy who had to come in and learn the entire staff, system, and talent.

So.... Jerry Kill? Seems to be working so far. So long as Fuente calls plays.

A head coach taking over playcalling rarely goes well. Fuente giving more input in game planning seems to be the sweet spot.

It's Time to go to Work

Possibly. There was an extended discussion on another thread about this. I'd contend that the offensive head coach is best off never giving up play calling to begin with, so if they do give it up and it doesn't work out, then taking it back is the best option.

Specifically for our situation, if Cornelson was no longer our OC and Fuente pulled double duty as HC/OC, then we might not even need a second person assigned the OC role. I was about to compare this situation to what I thought Oklahoma has but it looks like their entire offensive staff is either an Offensive Coordinator or an Associate Head coach.

If we do go with an OC with heavy influence from Fuente, then I think a good ol' country boy like Jerry could be a good fit.

I'd be extremely surprised if Kill got back in to a traditional coaching roll with his health problems. He has said repeatedly that advising is the sweet spot for him.

It's Time to go to Work

Perfect! We can pay him to be the OC, but pay him like he's an advisor, and Fuente can pull double duty! It's a win-win!

That's a terrible idea

It's Time to go to Work

I realize that this isn't an apples/apples comparison, but almost half of NFL head coaches call the plays on offense. Not saying that CJF is Sean McVay, but it absolutely can work, and work well. I don't know how prevalent this is with college coaches, however.

The distribution of labor might look something like this:

  • OC breaks down opponent film each week and, together with HC, creates the game plan.
  • On gameday, OC sits in the box so he can see things that aren't obvious at field level.
  • OC tracks down & distance and anything else the HC wants to keep tabs on.
  • HC considers OC suggestions and calls the play.
  • OC monitors play progress in real time and relays to HC. Did the OL block properly? Did the receivers run the right routes? Did the QB make the right read? How did the defense react? Etc.
  • HC manages the "field action" beyond calling plays, including communicating with the QB, substitutions, timeouts, etc.
  • OC suggests adjustments based on game flow, defensive tendencies, and personnel changes.

At this point I'd be willing to give it a shot.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

I think the NFL is a bad comparison. The time constraints in college are pretty prohibitive. Add on all the other facets of coaching in college that aren't in the NFL and you have completely different situations. The head coaches that start with calling plays are more successful than the ones that try to take it over later.

It's Time to go to Work

Chad Morris would be a home run hire β€” doubt it happens. Deep ties to TX .. would love to get some of that state's leftovers.

I don't see how people who aren't satisfied with Corny think there's a better option on the table. Unless you're getting a Briles (who no one up here wants) or a Leach coaching tree guy (who run a system that'd drive most y'all absolutely nuts) there aren't a that many better options out there and most of y'all are underrating the job Cornelsons done

There are literally hundreds of college coaches out there, and a lot of very capable coaches who likely are potential fits at VT - which is 80th percentile (+/-) destination across all of CFB. It's very odd to me to just concede Cornelsen is the best we can do and there can't any better options. Our offense has underachieved since yr 1 (when there was no film), our QB play hasn't been very good over the last few years, we haven't had a functional running back in 4 years, and our OC doesn't recruit. If we're not close to winning the ACC, we should be attempting to fix weak links that are keeping us from getting there.

But hey, suppose we should all throw our hands up and say it's the best we can do!

Agree that we should bring in another OC. If Fuente doesn't make this change after this season, I'm afraid we may have another Beamer/Stinespring situation (i.e., a HC loyal to his assistants and not doing what's best for the program).

Just for the record

QB Play
2016
Jerod Evans 24th in QBR

2017
Josh Jackson 57th in QBR

2018
Ryan Willis 36th in QBR

2019
Hendon Hooker 23rd in QBR

Passing Offense
2016
3rd most passing TDs in the ACC (31)

2017
5th most passing TDs in the ACC (21)

2018
3rd most passing TDs in the ACC (29)

2019
4th most passing TDs in the ACC (18)

I would argue the QB play has actually been really good, especially considering Jackson would have been a top 10 first time starter with his QBR

Rushing Attack
2016
5th rushing offense in the ACC
6th most rushing TDS in the ACC (27) ranked 44th nationally

2017
7th rushing offense in the ACC
9th most rushing TDs in the ACC (19)

2018
9th rushing offense in the ACC
12th most rushing TDs in the ACC (19)

Cant argue with a consistent run game

Offensive FEI Rankings:
2016
Three and Out Percent: 23% (ranked 23rd nationally)
Explosive Drives: 54th
Drives Ending in a TD: 43rd

2017
Three and Out Percent: 21% (ranked 15th nationally)
Explosive Drives: 81st
Drives Ending in a TD: 89th

2018
Three and Out Percent: 25% (ranked 38th nationally)
Explosive Drives: 65th
Drives Ending in a TD: 78th

2019
Three and Out Percent: 36% (ranked 114th nationally)
Explosive Drives: 89th
Drives Ending in a TD: 56th

We havent had a sexy offense; I will agree.

I wish I could run them post-Ryan Willis era this year, but Football Outsiders aggregates yearly

Offenses of Note this year:

Explosive Offense
1. Oklahoma
2. Alabama
3. Central Florida
4. LSU
5. Ohio State
6. Iowa State
7. Memphis
8. Southern Miss
9. Baylor
10. Wash St.
11. Western Mich.
12. Clemson
13. Charlotte
14. Hawaii
15. Liberty
16. Penn State
17. Utah
18. Miss State
19. Notre Dame
20. Central Michigan

Oregon State - Least turnover prone offense nationally

% of Drives ending in Touchdowns
1. Alabama
2. Oklahoma
3. Ohio State
4. LSU
5. Minnesota
6. Central Florida
7. Navy
8. Air Force
9. Clemson
10. Wash St.

* I was surprised by Iowa State, Memphis, Southern Miss, Baylor, Southern Miss, Western and Central Mich, Charlotte, Liberty and how efficient Air Force/Navy are with their drives.

I dont know who all of thoe OC's are but thats the list I would focus on IF I were making a change, also #shaneTrain...

2016
Drives Ending in a TD: 43rd

2017
Drives Ending in a TD: 89th

2018
Drives Ending in a TD: 78th

2019
Drives Ending in a TD: 56th

To add:
2016
35.0 PPG - 33rd nationally

2017
28.2 PPG - 69th nationally

2018
29.8 PPG - 61st nationally

2019
29.0 PPG -69th nationally

Fairly meh scoring offense.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I'm all ears if you want to talk about blaming the coaches for the current roster. But I dont see how expectations could be very high for the players we have had in those years, specifically with the lack of premier running back talent.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Not hundreds that have coached at this high a level. For a guy who often attribute's Fuente's offensive success to coaching in a G5 league that's a lot of faith to have in coaches that haven't had success at this level.

Also with Cornelson you're acting like he's a bottom tier coach. He's not. By any objective view he's middle to upper mid tier. If you want someone top tier that has done it at this level the options are pretty limited unless you go to the Mike Leach tree and get a guy that calls 3 goalline fades every time we get inside the 10. If that's what you want then fine but I know for a fact a lot of the guys who complain about Corny now will complain doubly if we get one of those guys. And even if we score a lot of points it's not proven that system will win us acc championships (see Fedora, Larry).

Not hundreds that have coached at this high a level. For a guy who often attribute's Fuente's offensive success to coaching in a G5 league that's a lot of faith to have in coaches that haven't had success at this level.

What?? Cornelsen had (and still arguably has had) zero success at this level. He wasn't even calling plays while at Memphis. Darrell Dickey was the brains behind the Memphis offense, not Corn. Whatever you think about him, no one can argue he had coached at this level, let alone start touting significant success. If a corn level hire is good with you, there are literally hundreds of options.

I also can't agree for a second that "By any objective view he's middle to upper middle tier." That's just downright false, statistically. Add in the fact he's a zero on the recruiting trail, it makes your comment even more confusing to me.

Yeah Dickey is clearly the better coordinator - but hes making 800k at A&M, so unless he gets fired, I dont think hes coming...

I was actually surprised at how little experience Cornelson has

He has coached at this level for the last 3 and a half years has he not? He's done decently here considering the O Line he was left with and having Willis and Jackson at QB (neither of whom can run the read option that made his offense successful in year 1). That's my opinion, you and anyone else are free to disagree.

.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

His history the last 3 years? How is that inconsistent with my comment please enlighten me

Edit: not worth it.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

No one is talking about it, but what about Joe Brady from LSU? Current passing game coordinator & WR coach over there, and I'd imagine his next step is an OC position.

I would be very surprised if Justin Fuente fires Brad Cornelson. Very surprised.

Yea unless Whit stepped in and forced his hand I could see a demotion for Corn at most. Even then I feel like it would take an enormous amount of outside pressure for Fu to do that.

Using /s is for cowards.

As I posted in the other thread, Cornelsen is a very well respected OC, whether he gives VT fans a headache or not. We have to take off our O&M glasses sometimes to see that, yes, he is worth his position.

Who's to say it is a firing? Maybe there's an offer for him in principle elsewhere, just like our new DC. Maybe he doesn't like Blacksburg, and just wants to move. What if Kill coming by for summer practices really bothered him?

I get that they are high profile coaches, but they are people too, and have their own needs and goals. I don't know how many details, if any will come to light publicly, but it's kind of a worst kept secret at this point.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

, Cornelsen is a very well respected OC

By whom?

This is his first gig.

Is it basketball season yet?

Yeah, it's pretty easy to tell if someone is fired or not. If Cornelson is announced as Auburn's OC the day after the season, he wasn't fired. If he stays at VT as WR coach and recruiting liason and we hire an outside OC, he was demoted. If 3 months pass and he is announced as Kent State's OC, he was fired. If he announces he is taking some time to focus on things outside of football, he was fired. It's really not that hard. If he takes a P5 OC job on December 6th, yeah it was his decision. Outside of that, he was demoted/fired.

Totally agree, however I think people are discussing this as a foregone conclusion. I agree with DC and think it's improbable, but if it happens it would be because we flake out over the next four games.

1) losing one coordinator with a young team is a big and two might be too much, but if we don't finish well it might be needed.
2) if we win the coastal zero chance corny gets fired with the entire offense returning.
3) Hendons health may be why corny makes the cut or misses it. There is no doubt that H2 makes us more dynamic and if you look at any advance stats for the games Hendon has played its obvious.

So.....

RichRod?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I find this entire thread offensive...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I would be very surprised as well. Listening to Chase Mummau recently via podcast and one of the most emphatic points he made was how much of a bromance Fu and Corny have. He basically said, you see one, you see the other. Given how Fu has consistently gone out of his way to defend the play calling in media sessions I highly doubt that Corn is gone.

I hate rude behavior in a man. Won't tolerate it.

If we don't make a bowl this year, they will start with window dressing- move Burden to defense and hire a new RB coach. If the offense struggles in 2020, then a more substantial move will be made.

I get a sneaking suspicion that our offense is going to be every bit as good, if not better, than 2016's next year. I think it could have been this year if we were playing the now obvious choice at quarterback all season.

I like that we have an offensive coaching staff that has a vision and framework for how they make decisions. I think they need to continue to get a little bit better at flexing some times. For example, I was a little surprised that we saw no Willis last game, given what he brings in the passing attack and how raw QP is. There were some interesting wrinkle opportunities missed.

If we can largely keep the coaching staff together, I think VT and Clemson can become an annual ACCCG clash with a lot of hype around it nationally, rather than the lambs to the slaughter, which is where VT and everyone else is right now.

All that said, I am totally unqualified to be trusted on any statement I just made, so you can take that for what it's worth.

"How you doin', Randy?"

For example, I was a little surprised that we saw no Willis last game, given what he brings in the passing attack and how raw QP is.

Unfortunately I don't believe a wrinkle with Willis under center would have netted anything positive. Our current scheme with HenBoss and QP keeps the opposing defense honest to defend the QB run. We couldn't do that with Willis under center. And by way of keeping the defense honest, it opens up the one-on-one matchups.

Let's Go

HOKIES

I see what you mean. Part of your point was kind of part of what I was thinking. It's a forgone conclusion in some people's minds that Willis isn't a run threat. I think that's only partially true. Did we all forget him flying down the sidelines against UVa last year?

I think a couple of series putting Willis in positions where he could run, like rollouts, or even running the same damn power play we used with Quincy once or twice, could have been effective at kinda scrambling up the momentum that ND built defensively. Also, Ryan can deliver a deep strike.

Does that make sense? Ryan isn't a great zone read/RPO guy, but now that he's #3 on the team, I'd roll the dice on some contact because he CAN run and he CAN sling it.

"How you doin', Randy?"

He is definitely more a threat than Jackson was. I cringed everytime announcers call jacksom a dual threat. But Willis isnt a threat like Hooker, watch some of those runs against miami, he planted his foot and exploded forward, it's completely different.

wrong thread, for some reason.

Which pod were you listening to?

Twitter me

Possibly "inside the tunnel". Check out the twitter page for Chase, he has a link there to listen