So I made a post in the main ECU thread about putting in a FOIA request for the emails from that week.

"Email exchanges from September 10th, 11th and 12th 2018 between the Virginia Tech Athletic Department and the East Carolina Athletic Department related to the travel arrangements of the East Carolina Football team.

Letter from ECU University Counsel and Vice Chancellor for Legal Affairs Donna Gooden Payne to VT Legal Counsel Kay Heidbreder on Dec. 19 with regards to VT-ECU football series. And response letter from Kay Heidbreder on December 21st."

And well I got a response!

"Consistent with section 2.2-3704(F) of Virginia's Freedom of Information Act, Virginia Tech will charge you the actual cost incurred in accessing, duplicating, supplying, or searching for the records you have requested. We estimate that cost to be $334.96.

This estimate assumes a search of emails of the following employees of the Virginia Tech Athletic Department: Whit Babcock, Angie LIttlejohn, and Pete Moris. The search will include any emails to or from anyone with an ecu.edu email address and containing either the terms "travel" or "transportation." If there are other individuals' whose emails you are seeking or other search terms you wish to have applied, please advise and a new estimate will be provided."

UPDATE: Ok if y'all are serious about wanting to do this I figured the best way to do it on the up and up was to do a quick GoFundMe. So here it is! https://www.gofundme.com/f/vtecu-email-foia-cost
And as much as I want to see the emails, I dont $334 want them. So unless we all want to crowdfund this it might be where it ends, just like the series. And perhaps thats for the best for everyone.

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Thanks for sharing. Interesting. But I agree with you, $334 is a lot to prove what we already know.

Can our Key Players Club Bux go towards this?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Welp, I'm curious but not that curious. Lol.

It's 1 dollar for 334 people, or 2 dollars for 167 people. I'm good for 1 or 2 bucks.

Co-sign. I'm sure it would generate an interesting article at the very least

VB born, class of '14


VB born, class of '14

I'm good for 1 or 2. Put this on reddit and twitter and you will have it fairly soon I bet.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Sign me the fuck up for a whole $2, please sir

"You know when the Hokies say 'We are Virginia Tech' they're going to mean it."- Lee Corso

If you decide to do it, you might want to consider removing the travel or transportation qualifier and just say all emails between September 10th-12th to or from an ecu.edu email address. Leaving the travel and transportation terms might omit relevant emails.

I think the main reason that is a bad idea is $. The email isn't completely clear on how they derived the estimate but it's clear that the number of emails is part of it.

I get that, just saying if you're going to do it, might as well get them all. It would be a shame to miss the 'smoking gun' email because it didn't contain the word travel or transportation but used another similar word. It might even reduce the cost by making the search simpler.

I agree with you, I just suspect that the volume of emails is probably how they estimate the costs, even if in practice it's less effort for them just pull down everything. Ultimately, agreed that OP should at least prod a little more on what the pricing options are, especially since apparently this is actually happening.

As someone who's had to respond to FOIA requests, I know that most of the costs go to cover the manhours spent generating the response. And most of that time is spent on redacting, if necessary. Of course, with a request of this size, the method of providing the documents is a huge wildcard in estimating the cost. If they print the e-mails out, then someone's paying for the paper, and the higher postage rate. Providing the e-mails in an electronic format (most likely a CD or DVD) would reduce the postage and reproduction costs, but it could take more time to save the e-mails than to just print them out.

Ahhhhhh, no. Takes longer to search the email accounts than anything. Saving the emails to media is quick. From somebody, who had to legally provide stuff for his employer.

I have that request pending to see what it would be, but in the meantime might as well open things up if people want to give.

Can't imagine a better way to intentionally discourage people from making use of FOIA laws than this. Can't have anyone freeing any information for free!

Public institutions should be funded up front to answer these inquiries unless they receive one that is completely and utterly frivolous to any reasonable human being.

In theory yes I agree however there is a trend for sovereign citizen types and some lawsuit seekers to abuse the system. I know an agency that spent over 400 man hours compiling documents for a sovereign citizen who wanted proof they broke the law to extinguish a fire on his property. For an agency with a single secretary and only one chief and three battalion chiefs this was a massive undertaking.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

At the federal level (the place with the most money and most staff), FOIA requests were averaging ~28 days. That is the time to complete the request not the time you get your response because of a back log. There is some time to process the request at the beginning and then some time to put a bow on it at the end but the data searching took 24 days. This is a lot of labor and requests come in all the time. Most agencies do this without the help of automated tools.

Now this is email so in theory should be easier because search is builtlin to their google mail. But once those emails are collected then some one needs to red them and determine if they are applicable to your request. So this process is labor intensive.

I'll pony up $69.


We put the K in Kwality


give it to them in pennies

Druckenmiller the shotgun snap, fakes short, fires it deep into the end zone it is....caught! It is caught for a touchdown by Jermaine Holmes with 47 seconds left!

I think it's absolutely worth the money πŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ

I say we crowdfund it. I'm good for a contribution.

What's the ratio of turkey legs to FOIA dollars?

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

yeah good idea let's just make Alum07 pay for all of it in turkey legs

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

with turkey legs??

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I'll do $2. Open this thing up

Shit, I'll put $2.50.

I already donated $150 the day the announced this year's game was cancelled.

I tend to agree with the posts above. Ask again without the travel and transportation keywords and at least see what price tag that brings. Post on reddit and twitter to see what kind of interet there is, if enough $ can be generated for all the emails then get them all, if not fall back to the $334 worth of emails

Can I pay you in gum?

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Do they accept bits of string?

Click here to destroy wall.

Schrute bucks?

Also I think it's worth stating that if for some reason this doesnt work out I 100% intend to return all donations through the site!

See a lot of people betting dollars and only $5 in the gofundme

$10 thrown into the pot. Let's do this damn thing.

I just looked at the site. Someone threw in $300 so...I think you're almost covered....

Finished it off with $10, let's do this

Practicing our motto, ut prosim, or, "that I may serve," is imperative in recognizing what it means to be part of the Hokie family.

Wake up get kids ready log in see a go Fund Me has been started overnight. Annndddd it's already fully funded. Damn nice work. So question is how much would a full FOIA request cost us?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I say keep funding it and do the same FOIA request in NC targeted at ECU.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Have a follow up question tot he VT FOIA office out there for all the emails between Whit, Angie Littlejohn, and Pete Morris and anyone with an ECU.edu address for those 3 days outstanding, wont do anything with the original request until I hear back from them on that.

"Now Miami wants to talk about it." *Cue Enter Sandman*


Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

"Sam Rogers is a college football icon" SB Nation

Thanks Frank!


If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

What, like with a cloth?

Danny is always open
23 can't read

I woulda had $20 on this, but alas I was working today.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Well damn, that was quick...take that extra $20 and get some beers for your efforts

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

If someone starts a GoFundMe and raise more money than the target what happens to the surplus? What is the fundraiser allowed to do with it?

As I understand it its kinda a grey area, but donors arent without recourse. Everyone as a donor if they feel the funds have been miss used can appeal to GoFundMe under their protection policy. https://pages.gofundme.com/guarantee-faq/

I want to keep it open until I hear back on a possible extended FOIA search, and of course write the actual check to VT.

After that im open to ideas, dont want to just keep it for myself, as I think that really would violate the spirit of the effort. Maybe if someone is in town and willing I could send the surplus to them and they could buy a bunch of cans to donate for the Hokies for the Hungry collection later this season or something.

But thats getting ahead of ourselves for now at least.

Also keep in mind that GoFundMe keeps a portion of the proceeds in fees.

I really hope these emails are favorable. I've spent a year defending us from the outrage trolls on Reddit.

That was quick. VT should've teased the releasing of the emails as a reward for completing the Drive for 25.

Can someone please FOIA request UNC for NCAA and Nike and then hit up Louisville for the old adidas ones?

Recruit Prosim

The Raleigh News and Observer tried to use FOIA to obtain records relating to the UNC academic scandal a few years back and were pretty much stonewalled. I have to assume that anything pertaining to Nike and UNC Basketball would be even more fiercely guarded.

β€œYou got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Anything related to ongoing litigation will almost always be refused. In this case, it seems both parties decided to drop the series without involving the lawyers, so it's presumably a done deal.

Any news on this?

I am not getting my hopes up. I feel like there will be some legalize BS in this statement "and containing either the terms "travel" or "transportation." that makes this request turn up very little value. Just a gut feeling, although $334 dollars worth of time spent searching emails better turn up a whole lot or I want the job that pays $200/hr to search email.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

I want the job that pays $200/hr to search email

Business opportunity for you entrepreneurs out there...

You obviously have never been an MS Exchange admin and had to run searches. IE: don't want that job.

I have not, but it's pretty easy to search my own :)


So to get EVERYTHING not just the ones with the keywords would be much more expensive, so for now I am submitting the original request. The check to VT should go out this week.

Then jst not really sure how long the process takes.

Will keep everyone updated!

Wow, I'm surprised. I really thought it would be less expensive to just pull all the emails between the 3 people and anyone at ecu.edu instead of focusing on 'travel' or 'transportation'. There must be a crap ton of emails then.

Yeah the reasoning in part I was given was that it would be more labor intensive to then screen the emails for other protected information, where the keyword search would cut down on the body of emails to go through that process.

You will have to run multiple searches using each keyword and then manually look at each email to verify if it applies. Not fun.

Miss Cleo sees disappointment in your future

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Ha, I remember in the late 90s the Tech Bookstore had a tv ad that was a parody of the Ms Cleo ads. Anybody else remember that??

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Its an old Gif Sir, but it checks out

Edit to blank

I'm not sure why we still care about this when we know VT is in the right / ECU in the wrong...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Th original instance was back when ECU canned the series a few weeks back.

Frankly the number of fans who had emotionally invested a bit of themselves in the debate over the past year I think its worth doing this basic minimum of actual research just to see what it turns up.

If nothing comes out then thats that.