VT Defensive Coordinator Rumors

I did a couple of searches, as I know there were some threads about the next DC, but couldn't find them.

In "Tha Real Hokies" (used to be Hardcore Hokies group) on Facebook, someone mentioned that a DC has already been selected and the coaches are sharing this information with the recruits to help keep them on board. The poster mentioned he had Sauces, but didn't list them.

That in it's own wouldn't be enough for me to want to dig deeper, but seems a lot of other folks saying they heard similar. A few posted that it was Torrian Gray, though I find that hard to believe as that would mess up Florida's recruiting.

Anyway, figured I'd ask the TKP braintrust. Not trying to speculate or focus on who it could be, have plenty of thoughts on that, but trying to see if others are hearing repeated rumors that may be smoke leading to a fire.

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

BAH GAWD, THAT'S MAMA FULLER'S MUSIC!

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

What's Mama Edmunds' role on the staff? Mama Grimm is a lock for Whips.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

she develops the talent, duh

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I would also accept, she creates talent.

she incubates the talent

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

she Invents the Future (talent)

they didn't tell Keonta Jenkins.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

That's interesting, but excellent gif nonetheless, leg

welp, now i'm going to spend the next hour watching this gif. Thanks

and leg

Would be very difficult to share the specific name with recruits without it getting out.

Yep, I feel very confident that if a bunch of teenagers all knew who the new DC would be it wouldn't be more than a day or two before it leaked.

I'm no teenager but if I knew Id make a burner TKP account and spread the word like wild fire lol.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

This was my thought. However, there were multiple people who seemed to agree with the original poster in the group.

Also, was trying to understand how you would manage that. If it's just recruits, do you tell only committed recruits? Otherwise, some kid who is a recruit but not a lean would definitely leak this.

Additionally, if you the supposedly coach and on another team, a la Torrian Gray, how would that play with current Florida recruits?

It seemed nuts to me, but wanted to see if others had heard this as well.

It can be dicey when coaches take jobs after the regular season and stay on with the current team through the post season, so I can't imagine Florida being okay with Torrian Gray coaching 4 more months while having already accepted the DC position at VT, for example.

so I can't imagine Florida being okay with Torrian Gray coaching 4 more months while having already accepted the DC position at VT

If you're Florida though what choice do you have? You have to work with what you've got or promote some under-qualified analyst for the rest of the season.

It's not like our athletic department locked out Buzz when it was an open secret that he was flirting with A&M by the ACC tournament if not earlier.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Your question might have come up already in this thread.

I tried to find those threads, but guess my TKPing wasn't hard enough.

The new DC has not been selected, that's bullshit.

Plot twist: DC is the new DC

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I would pay to see that. DC has to balance his criticism of Fuente and his recruiting with the fact that he is part of the staff and recruiting. Plus every keyboard QB critiquing his play calling inevitably turns into DC flaming the shit out of them.

Let's take it one step further. Fireman for OC. Alum as HC. and ME as Special Teams. God that'd be good stuff to watch.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Mascot?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'll allow it.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

On second thought, Horse On A Treadmill for mascot

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I like your moxy.

Horse On A Treadmill With A Nien Nunb Mask

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It's certainly better than the Moxie we have up here in Maine. Blech!

Seeing Moxie, for some reason reminded me of the Whip Cream bikini in Varsity Blues.

I went there too...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Complimentary gif.... only because it's exactly 10am...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I had the gif of the whip cream bikini ready to go, but figured it may be too NSFW.

C'mon, it's probably OK...

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Dibs running the VT twitter account and turning it into only Mayo posts

FOSTERS: Australian for defense

If Nien Nunb is the new mascot, you can't do only mayo posts. You have to throw in an anagram here and there. Now, if you do mayo anagrams, you're golden!!!

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Mayo anagrams to "Yo, ma!"

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

GUNTAR's gotta throw in some of his excellent photoshops onto the feed!!!!!!!!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

ME as Special Teams

But seriously, I'd be the one hiding in the corner rocking while DC, alum, and HF duked it out. Also, at least one on sides kick per game when completely the wrong situation for it. And every punt is a fake... or is it?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

For $2m a year, I'll gladly keep my arms folded with a scowl on my face during gamedays and then continue to say how we just need to work on execution during the post game press conferences.

I wouldn't even have to meet with parents of recruits. Hells yeah!

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

If no one throws their name in the hat for DBs, how can we debate if they won't talk to mom's enough or too damned much?

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Looks like you just volunteered for the job

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

#sauce?

In "Tha Real Hokies" (used to be Hardcore Hokies group) on Facebook, someone mentioned that a DC has already been selected and the coaches are sharing this information with the recruits to help keep them on board. The poster mentioned he had Sauces, but didn't list them.

Sounds Purely speculative.

Any hire that is done will be made much closer to the end of the season. There are a few ways that this hire will go:

1. Whit Babcock will be involved in this hiring, and the way he works I've never seen him tip his hand or make decisions too early. He is very calculated.
2. Fuente off course will be involved in this decision quite a bit, he generally hires people he has a relationship with from his past coaching experiences. There were a lot of staffs that he worked with at Illinois State and TCU
3. Off course I would love to have Torian Gray, but there are others on the current staff that might get the nod even someone like Chraley Wiles who's been around for ages. Its too early for a guy like Justin Hamilton. There are a few guys with VT connections throughout College Football and NFL, I know at least Todd Grantham is a D-coordinator who might be a bit expensive for our budget, others are not in a very prominent role.

I would say let this thing play out for what it is and we will see what happens.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

I figured it was speculative as well, however when I saw a few others contribute to the same speculation, I figured I'd dig deeper to see if a more reliable source could be found.

As for your other notes, I think Whit may have some input, but I would put this hire completely on Fuente. I imagine he makes a list, discusses with Whit and Bud, but it's totally up to him. My only concern here is that his list may be narrow based on some of his past hires.

I'm all for letting this play out, but when I saw a few in this speculation, wanted to see if anyone else heard anything.

Its too early for a guy like Justin Hamilton.

I used to think this way...then I just saw 30-year-old Kellen Moore obliterate the Giants defense. Moore only had one year of coaching experience before getting the OC job this year.

If Hammer has the ability, his age shouldn't preclude him from being considered.

Fuck Kellen Moore...

This is also a fair position to take.

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, did you see the Cowboys light up the Giants yesterday? You love to see that

To be fair, it's the Giants

I'm in the camp I don't care if he's seasoned enough. Give him the reins and let's see what happens!

It's not about age; it's about resume. Love me some JHam, but he has done nothing to prove that he is capable of being a successful DC next year.

Twitter me

Age-wise he's plenty old enough. Heck, he's 6 years older than Sean McVay was when McVay became the Rams HC. From a personality perspective, I think JHam is really engaging as a person. From a coaching perspective, I'd like to see some progression from his position group this year that demonstrates his ability to communicate and coach his players, before I give him a bigger role. I'm not opposed to the idea necessarily but I haven't seen good evidence (yet) that he is ready for it either.

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

If you see these characters, they represent specific people (as of Oct. 2):

Palpatine (Fuente) || Vader (Hooker) || Kylo Ren (QP4) || Lando (Deablo)

Maybe we can hire Pruitt from Tennessee when he gets canned after what looks to be a 1-6 start to the season.

I hate rude behavior in a man. Won't tolerate it.

Along this line of thinking, Charlie Strong is going to get fired from USF, but he was one hell of a DC back in the day.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Was going to say the same thing; I think Strong is someone to keep an eye on

Twitter me

I agree with dcwilson in that these are just rumors - nothing done yet.

For the record, I do like the idea of Charlie Strong as a candidate of those events play out - no perspective on how realistic that is with money, scheme etc. might make my opinion premature

I like the idea of him as well but I think bigger names will come calling for him to be DC if he gets fired.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Hard to believe but Strong will be 60 next August

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Doesn't matter. Fuente will either flounder and be canned or be successful and move on. Either way, I do not see fuente staying more than five or six more years. I don't think we should think of the coordinators as long term hokies

I know he's supposed to have the DC chops, but I've heard he has some personality problems.

Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi. Tech, Tech, V.P.I.
Sola-Rex, Sola-Rah. Polytech- Vir-gin-I-a.
Ray, Rah, V.P.I. Team! Team! Team!

As in, he doesn't have one.

As in, he doesn't get along with other coaches. Could just be a rumor.

Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi. Tech, Tech, V.P.I.
Sola-Rex, Sola-Rah. Polytech- Vir-gin-I-a.
Ray, Rah, V.P.I. Team! Team! Team!

I haven't heard that rumor, but I was cracking wise off the fact that the UT fan base openly talks about how boring he is on the weekly TV shows and pressers.

Didn't he describe his program as the Titanic the other day? Making a comparison between players leaving and people jumping off the top of the ship?

I thought I saw an article the other day that noted he admitted to using "Ask Madden" to call plays during the game or something.

What is Vincent Fuller up to these days? πŸ€”

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
β€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

He's an attorney. Those Fuller boys got some smarts too.

I would not want to go up against fuller, fuller, fuller, fuller and fuller attorney at law in the court room.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I think that last one got disbarred for eating bbq while court was in session.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

That's a tasty firm to be sure /S

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

An associate corporate lawyer in Manhattan, very impressive! Get after 'em Vinny!

β€œTHE CUP IS GOING NOWHERE MIKEY!!! THEY DID IT SOMEHOW!!”

I think you'd be asking for a whole lot of pride to be swallowed to get Torian back on board.

Pride is a lot easier to swallow when you are getting a big increase in salary.

If google can be trusted, he's making $450k/yr at Florida right now. If he came here as DC I'd imagine he'd get somewhere between $700k-1M/yr.

Not his pride I'm referring to.

Oops I see that now, and it makes much more sense that way.

A lot of people saying how could Gray coach for 4 more months and have accepted DC job at VT. I don't think he has accepted DC job, but to play devil's advocate, didn't Buzz Williams and Jimbo Fisher both do this for over a year before going to aTm?

You forgot SEC contracts just mean more

But but but....Torrian doesn't say hi to moms

πŸ‘‹

Let's Go

HOKIES

Irony that apparently Fuente doesn't say hi to Dads. So maybe they were meant to be?

After Galen Scott aren't we happy Torrian isn't saying Hi to Moms?

I just asked and there's nothing to this. My guy would know.

LA with the gavel.

You mean a group as reputable as "Tha Real Hokies" might be fibbing?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Hey hey, it wasn't the whole group. One guy posted and a few others agreed they had heard something.

But I posted it here, as I figured this was the most reputable and trustworthy source to put that one to bed.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

If it was me, I would Hire Randy Shannon, a proven DC with ACC experience who is now at UCF. Not sure if he would want to come up to Blacksburg though.

I also like Zach Arnett from San Diego State, very similar to a younger Bud Foster.

BUT the way this thing will shake out is based on the November Coaching Carousel. look for a lot of twists and turns

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

This may rile some feathers, but all of you expecting us to hire a big name DC are just setting yourself up for disappointment in the future. If I were a betting man, which I'm not, I would say Fuente will give the DC title to someone already on staff (i.e. Wiles) and hire a new full time LB coach (i.e. Tyler) and keep rolling with the staff and set up already in place. As Bud said, he's still going to be around in some capacity. He can be like all the ex-coaches that are on "staff" at the Alabama's and anOSU's that work behind the scenes breaking down film, scheming plays, identifying recruits etc without dealing with the day to day BS.

This is most likely our very unsexy outcome.

Yeah, but a lot of times "unsexy" can cook it up like a boss and get shit done. Meanwhile "sexy" is expensive, high maintenance, and always has an eye on the door.

#teamMaryAnn

Leonard. Duh.

#TeamMaryAnn

#downtheredditrabbithole

Let's Go

HOKIES

#TeamMaryAnn

Didn't want to speculate or get into the discussion, but this is why I think JHam may be lined up, he may be young, but he would have a ton of support and seems to be a players coach.

Another name that I'd like to hear more is Cornell Brown.

Yeah, I get the sense we are going to go this route as well and that it's not going to be Wiles.

That leaves three options:

1. JHam -- Bring Tyler in to coach LB's (that's probably likely no matter what)
2. JC Price -- Send Wiles packing, Prioleau for Mitchell (this may be likely in any scenario as well)
3. Torrian Gray -- (Which I hear is a real possibility), Mitchell gone.

I am more than ok with this scenario

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

If we keep running the same defense, we'll need someone that understands it. A hire from within or someone who has been here in the past makes sense.

JP

I think if nothing else Fuente would get on board with this strategy because he needs as many wins as he can get and changing schemes next year is not exactly the best way to do that.

Especially when we will have 10/11 starters returning on defense and the majority of the two deep minus any attrition. If we were graduating/losing a lot of players then maybe it would be an okay time for a scheme change. But we are going to very quickly become one of the most experienced teams in the ACC. So a hire from within gives us the best chance at success in the near term.

We're getting way ahead of ourselves here, but..

Schematically, Wiles makes a lot of sense. From a program development standpoint, I think it would be a big mistake.

If you look at the single biggest recruiting issue we've had its defensive lineman. IMHO, we need to hire someone who has a strong recruiting resume and if that requires a scheme change, so be it.

Maybe its just me but I would be ok with that. You don't have to try and redefine the role of everyone on defense and already have the players to fit the scheme. With the instability the team has right now that honestly might be the best move.

So Bud retires after this season, and let's just hypothetically say things do not work out for Fuente and VT after another couple years, is there any chance Bud comes out of retirement for the Head Ball Coach position?

nope.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Mike Young?

we cant afford another bad recruiter on the staff /s

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Flight Tracker, or it didn't happen.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

No flight if their in house

Recruit Prosim

SOMEBODY GET THEIR FITBIT DATA PRONTO

also: they're*

Didn't jugs say that Glenn Schumann was in talks with Whit to be the next DC?

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

that's probably reading too far into it. the comment was more along the lines of "I've heard rumblings about a GS"

edit: https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/846670#comment-846670

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Leg, thanks for the info.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Someone on Twitter suggested Nick Sorensen for a variety of reasons that really made sense. I doubt it happens, but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

VT alum, 6 years of NFL position coaching experience (of a particularly successful unit) -- it isn't the *worst* idea.

I don't personally think we're going to be blown away by the DC pick. I firmly believe that there's going to be some concern from the prospective coaches that Fuente may be in his last year (next year) and it will seem like a risky move, but maybe that's just me.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Any idea how Kam Chancellor is enjoying his NFL retirement? Does he have any desire to get in to coaching? His college & pro credentials alone would be enough to get additional recruiting attention and hopefully get them excited about learning from an NFL all-pro and Super Bowl champ.

Kam isn't qualified to be anything but a GA at this point.

He has zero coaching experience.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I should have clarified - I was thinking more along the lines of secondary coach, not the DC.

Fair but I still think he needs some coaching experience first.

Kam has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, and is a great VT ambassador but being a great player doesn't always translate into coaching.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

It's true that being great on the field doesn't always translate into being a great coach, but then again, even being a successful head coach at one job doesn't guarantee being successful at another position.

If he's able to communicate with people, IMO he would be MORE than qualified to coach defensive backs at the college level.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Yes, over time we just need to bring back all the VT alum. Kam, Flowers, DHall should all be coaching at VT.

I heard the communication from current coaches to old players isn't very good.

One of the guys you mentioned was actually a potential pickup for UMD and he wasn't looking forward to the recruiting portion of the job.

Good thing we won't have any of the current coaches next season then right? /s

VTMidge

As a member of that fb group, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into any rumors from there

exit light

Just out of curiosity
how do you pronounce your name

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

exit light

Whomever gets the job he needs to be young. Someone that can connect with the kids.

Word🀘

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

When do we get some offensive coordinator rumors

That is an intriguing guy. Top 10 defenses two year running.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: β€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

At a school that dropped football for a few years.

I would be happy with this candidate, if his scheme is similar.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former USNR, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Soooo....

Torrian?
Strong?
Shannon?
Schumann?
HOAT?

Let's be clear - all of these guys are good candidates. They're qualified, knowledgeable and handsome. Some of them have more legs than the others, which, to honest, is what I look for in a good DC.

The backbone of our defense has to be strong enough to carry more than one human person, and should be able to generate between 745 and 746 watts of power, or joules per second for the layman.

I'm not saying that any of these candidates are better than the others, just that some have that extra special ability - that 'jo no say kwa' - or those 'intangibles' that us blue collar folks like to see. We gotta saddle up and head down to that Down Town Road. We gotta be able to ride until we can't no more.

I, for one, could get on board with any of these candidates.

The backbone of our defense should be able to generate 757 watts of power,

FTFY

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: β€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

Psst. 745.7 Watts = 1 HORSEpower

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Good catch.

But...

Pssst... [VA Beach telephone area code]

Shirt I got for my birthday this weekend:

Back says: Keep Calm And Gallop On

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Nice. I have a couple of those myself.

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

Where you get that?

Personally, I got it as a gift while at Big Lick Brewery in Roanoke.

But I'm unsure of where it was actually purchased. I can try to find out though.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I'd appreciate it if it's a small ask for you. Naturally, I want to corner the market on my image and likeness.

Apparently it came from a place called High Peak Sportswear here in Roanoke.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

High Peak in Blacksburg has them too.

Yeah, they basically ripped off a half-assed version of TKP's design.

Agree. I wasn't trying to say otherwise, just mentioning it for reference. Apologies if my original comment wasn't clear.

Do you have any recourse?

Brad Cornelsen. Because he sure knows how to stop the run, am I right?
/s

I laughed

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Ha! That was some serious shade! Well done sir.

What coach is intentionally screwing over his current team, while secretly being recruited by VT, so he will get fired mid-season and get hired by Tech? Sort of like Antonio Brown

#Let's Go - Hokies

If it is someone who will continue to run Foster's system, that becomes a pretty short list:

Anthony Midget
Torrian Gray
Whammy Ward (DC at UT-Chatt, former iterim HC/DC at Louisville and DC at South Carolina)
JC Price (DL Coach at Marshall)
Charley Wiles
Justin Hamilton

I can't think of anyone else.

If they are changing systems, who the hell knows.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Vroom Vroom

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

OT, but why did we wait so. damn. long. to put the logo at midfield? Always bothered me growing but never thought to ask.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Field paint costs money, bruh. It was the Jim Weaver years!

between this and "players slip on paint", thats the reasoning I heard as well

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

"players slip on it" was the JW company line. It was pretty well known across the AD it was just a tactic to save money (hence why the endzones weren't even painted for a few years)

The players slip on it line was such bull. The paint they use on Astroturf dried slick on that synthetic material.

Field paint is sticky! Anybody here ever lined a field? I have. It's a sticky mess!

Not sure how much truth we there is to this but the explanation I remember hearing for the lack of endzone paint was because the new turf needed time to take root and paint was going to inhibit that process. I believe this was Fall 2002 and it went on for a couple seasons. I actually believe it because if you recall the games later in the season we actually had to lightly paint the entire field green because the grass was struggling in Fall weather. We had one Thursday night game against Pitt and every single player was covered in green paint after that game.

I recall the green paint on my shoes and white pants after pregame shows.

The new turf thing is correct RiF!

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

That's Wayne Ward, not Lorenzo "Whammy" Ward, but I'll always give a leg to this punt return.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

What about Cornell Brown. He has been a DC before, even if it was a smaller school.

Cornell wasn't exactly successful, outside of funny quotes, when he was on the coaching staff here.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

So I seem to recall some reason that Whammy left VT, but with his experience (didn't he bounce around several P5 teams after the Hokies?) UTC seems a bit of a steep drop.

Wait, what?

Give me a 3-4

Recruit Prosim

Get ready to take a big step backwards if that is what you get. The personnel doesn't fit.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

just need a couple of nose tackles. All our DT's are 3-4 DE sized already. All of our DE's are 3-4 OLB sized. Then we can play Ashby and Dax at ILB at the same time. #natty

Sure all we need is the hardest position to recruit for. Should be easy.

Whatever we do, we need to do for the long term.

Long term in college football is 4 years.

Long Term in college football is 15-20 years.

It's what Beamer did.

4 years is short term. It's the time frame every college program is working with, all the time.

I imagine the median length of time at a P5 coaching role is about 3-4 years. I think of 5+ years being 'long term'

Twitter me

If you win, you're there longer or a better program picks you up.

Gotta bite the bullet sometime.

Recruit Prosim

TBH i think it's an unnecessary bullet to bite. I'm not against having multiple fronts and sporting 3 man fronts more, but an arbitrary switch to a 3-4 wouldn't guarantee our defense being any better or worse

Idk would be nice not to have boom or bust and also stop the gashing runs we take right up the middle

Recruit Prosim

Unless we show the ability to recruit great d linemen I would prefer to stick with 4-3. A less than dominant nose would get exposed in a hurry wouldnt it?

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

I haven't seen it anywhere yet so I'm just curious, French what would you do here if you had the keys to the kingdom?

Take my lumps and get the best I can find for the dollars I have. But, keep in mind Fuente is making the decision, so taking on a couple years of transition may not be an option.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Agreed. I think that is the most important thing to keep in mind. Fuente is likely going to be on the hot seat to some degree as he makes this decision. The idea of doing anything that would create a multi-year delay of success is likely not going to be appealing to him.

Fuente would be proud of that coach speech French. :)

Hokie fan | W&M grad

What system did Marshall use last season? Obviously there were VT connections on staff with Price and Cornell Brown but the DC was Adam Fuller, who left to take the same position at... Memphis. There's no way fans wouldn't be incensed by the appearance of replacing Foster with "another one of Fuente's buddies from Memphis" (and I'm certain that would be a popular narrative) but nonetheless I'm curious if it could possibly be a schematic fit.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

It's a very similar system as far as I can tell, except the whip (or sam in Marshall's case) linebacker is less of a DB than Tech's whip and more of a linebacker. Both inside linebackers line up behind the defensive line. The defensive line must run a similar gap scheme given the success of Marshall's defensive tackles despite being undersized. They're also coached by JC Price. The secondaries are nearly identical.

Edit: one difference in the secondary that stands out to me is that the strong safety in Marshall's defense is basically given the go ahead to fly around and kill shit. Watch Malik Gant highlights. They aren't given much responsibility and boundaries. This means that the free safety has to be fast and long, because often times he might be the only guy deep if they throw a deep pass off playaction.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

I'm not sure that we as a family base are aware of the reality that this season imposes:

Good to great season: Fuente might be going to a better school.

Bad season: Possibly fire everyone, and bring in a whole new staff.

We have no idea about this team's identity, even after 2 games. So the talk about a new DC needs to calm down. Until we get into November and see the trajectory of this program, let's enjoy these last few games with Bud.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I really don't see how people think Fuente is leaving in the near future because we have somehow become a juggernaut in the ACC. He's got three more years minimum. He has to produce a consistent qualified product on the field before a bigger school will come calling. Those bigger schools that are a step up from VT aren't that many in number are most have solid coaches at the helm at the moment that aren't leaving in the near future.

As far as DC.....hope it's an exciting pick.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Keep an eye on Prioleau

15

seems like quite the jump on the career ladder.

2011-2019 DC at Radford High School
2019-2020 Director of Player Development - Defense
2020- ??? DC at VT

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

This makes me laugh so hard. God, I love that movie.

I may be in the minority here: I love Foster, but I'm ok completely changing the system. Will allow us the chance to get more prototypical recruits of higher quality. 3-4 or 4-3 is fine. Even 4-2. I just want more talent stocked up on D and a better system to lure them in with. I'd be interested if others think i'm off base here.

I mean, I don't what scheme we run as long as we're getting W's.

I am okay with Bud making his exit. He's a defensive genius and he helped Frank build VT into something that was bigger than it 'deserved to be' because they recruited and landed the best of the 2nd tier on the DL and LB front and coached those guys up, while landing some of the best DB's in the nation. As he's been here forever and certain areas of recruiting are falling off, now is not a bad time for a new beginning.

We need consistently better recruiting all-around defensively, so the top of my list and non-negotiable is "Amazing Recruiter". I think it goes without saying that Nick Saban is not an otherworldly football mind (Remember the Miami Dolphins? and the beatdown we gave LSU back in....whatever year it was?) and Dabo Swinney sure as hell isn't. Those guys have players that mask any coaching problem any coach ever had. Hell, slap a Bammer windbreaker on my back and I'll get those kids to the SEC title game.

So, in summary, let's consistently recruit kids that are good enough to make winning the coastal feel something that's not even worth celebrating. Just spitballing, we need Top 15 classes every year for 3 years in a row. Go from there. Sounds pretty simple to me!

"How you doin', Randy?"

I am afraid you are going to be disappointed with our DC hire, whoever it is.

Is that because you think we're not going to hire a great recruiter?

"How you doin', Randy?"

I don't think you're going to a DC hire that will get us three years in a row of top 15 classes. I don't think that DC is available to us.

Saban is actually an important and very innovative defensive mind. He pioneered the cover 3 pattern match defense that has developed into the modern match quarters. Rip/Liz coverages, etc. Last year Belichick said there is nobody in football he respects more than Saban.

I stand corrected. I am not sure how much that has to do with the massive amount of talent he has and how hard, or not, his job is based on that.

"How you doin', Randy?"

You're a high school grad and you want to be a lawyer. Harvard law school offers you a free ride, and Eastern State offers you a free ride.

Where are you going?

Leonard. Duh.

A quick google search of "eastern state" gives me eastern state penitentiary as it's first result which is now a museum... So are you asking me if I want to go back in time and commit a whole bunch of felonies vs. go to law school? You know I'm going to pick time traveling bandit, right?

"You could turn beans into peas..."

Please get this reference.Please get this reference.Please get this reference.

Leonard. Duh.

I sure do! For those of you that don't get this reference. Jack chopped down that beanstalk to kill the giant who Jack stole from (that murdering, stealing, son of a bitch). But what most people don't know about Jack is after he chopped down the beanstalk he kept and sold most of the beans it had produced (that greedy son of a bitch who just got a goose's lifespan worth of gold). Well the villagers got sick from the beans and demanded Jack pay their hospital bills. Jack told them he had a remedy for this bean sickness and gave them "pea soup". Turns out this pea soup was made from the leftover beans Jack still had stored away (that counterfeiting, doctor impersonating son of a bitch) and the villagers all died. Now Jack owned all the land and goose-worths of gold and he lived happily ever after. The End. *Kisses baby goodnight*

Thank you Leonard for reminding us of this valuable life lesson.

Did someone say "Soup"....?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

No. Just....no.

"Time Bandits"? The movie? Anyone? Anyone?

Leonard. Duh.

I gotcha. ;) There's also a dwarf character named Strutter in that movie.

This is so unbelievably OT, but did anyone ever watch the Ghost Hunters episode at Eastern State Penitentiary where one of the guys who is literally paid to hunt ghosts got so scared that he ran? He yelled "Dude run."

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

where one of the guys who is literally paid to hunt ghosts got make a show about walking around a dark building actually be entertaining pretend to be so scared that he ran?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Of all the BS ghost shows, Ghost Hunters was the most legit. They would review hours of footage, sometimes 8 hours, and if they didn't find anything, they would tell the property owners that there was nothing going on. Towards the end when viewership was going down, they played some things up, but it was still real at its core.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

My favorite was that they would go in trying to find alternative explanations for what was being experienced. They, for the most part, didn't say a place was haunted, more so that they couldn't explain the evidence they had.

Yep. They tried to debunk everything. A lot of their investigations were debunking claims by the property owners rather than just "ghost hunting."

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Oh I know, I watched it for a while...but still they had to embellish a little bit while filming to make things more intense for the show

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I stopped watching after Kris left the show & spinoffs

Let's Go

HOKIES

She certainly seemed qualified

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Ask FSU or Tennessee how amazing recruiting, by itself, is working. I agree that the new DC should have good recruiting skills but "Amazing Recruiter" probably doesn't need to be top of the list as long as the entire D staff can recruit well. I would like to see someone who is skilled in schemes, can manage the D staff and who is a players coach, while being "proficient" at recruiting.

"If you think you can or if you think you can't, you're probably right." Mark Twain

I don't think your off base.

Adam Fuller. Name checks out.

I keep seeing names like Grantham, or the guy from Penn State, or coaches from Georgia and other SEC teams dropped. If you think this head coach is going to go with a name brand coordinator or position coach from a competitive conference rather than a G5 buddy, or a small scale P5 with no recruiting experience, or promote from within cheaply, you're gonna have a bad time.

Why does it have to be a guy with connections to VT? I'm hoping that Fuente and co. are conducting a broader search.

Because fans don't want to lose that connection to Bud Foster.

https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/835625#comment-835625

I made this comment in June about Bud retiring. At one point it was negative legs because people didn't want to hear it. Honestly a large segment of the fan base will be more upset about Bud leaving than Frank.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I don't think you were being down voted because people don't want to hear anything about Bud retiring (i.e. Chris's response three posts later).

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I know because people think any criticism of anyone but Fuente is a defense of Fuente. But the writing was on the wall all summer that Bud was thinking about retiring. No one wanted to hear it. Hell look at responses of everyone willing to hire former players with zero coaching experience just because they played for Bud. Hokie fans are not taking his retirement well.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I disagree with the first half of your post. People wanted Fuente to be held accountable and they still do.

Mostly agree with the second half. We should be hiring someone qualified to be our DC. Fans shouldn't let their orange and maroon glasses skew that. I've always beat the drum that we shouldn't hire former players in prominent roles without experience.

I think fans are taking his retirement fine. I don't think they want former VT players because they aren't taking the retirement well. They just want to see someone get the job that understands the culture. I don't think it has anything to do with people "not taking his retirement well."

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

There are two major reasons why it makes sense to take a guy with connections to VT:

1) First and foremost, they are more likely to accept the job. If you went to VT, played for VT, are a lifelong VT fan, or previously worked for VT and had a good experience, you are more likely to take a promotion at VT, possibly even a lateral move. This is pretty standard protocol in the industry to look for a lot of these guys. Clemson for example has multiple members of their coaching staff who are former players, lifelong Clemson guys. Jeff Scott is probably one of the biggest Clemson homers on the planet. Those former Clemson guys on staff have increased loyalty to Clemson and have heavily contributed to their pretty absurd level of staff continuity for a team of that level. Many times hiring guys with connections to the school is seen as a "culture fit." The idea of a "Michigan man" or USC wanting to hire a coach with connections to the program. I think these are hotly debated as to whether that is a good thing or not, or even outright backfires a lot, but regardless it is still considered an important part of hiring for many schools.

2) Not having to do a complete rebuild of the defensive roster/scheme. Someone like Torrian Gray would be able to run a scheme similar to Bud's, probably using all the same lingo/calls, etc. This would substantially lessen transition/growing pains with learning a whole new defense. There's also a good chance someone like Torrian has his own ideas about tweaking and innovating the defense (maybe he prefers bigger DL, etc.)

I personally, don't think it is a requirement that we go with someone with connections to VT. Many of the people I listed on the original thread about looking for a new DC have no connections to VT whatsoever. Or some who have connections, like a Glenn Schumann at Georgia (co-DC), might prefer to totally overhaul the defense anyway to a 3-4 if given/willing to take the reins. However, I do understand why people are talking a lot about guys with connections to VT. That isn't uncommon for other fanbases to do as well for the reasons listed above.

I think the most important requirement for the next DC is someone that can flat out CRUIT! Much like MY needs assistants who can get talent, Fu needs that in the worst way on Defense.

Kazby

Agree, and I hope that search is broader than TCU, Memphis and Illinois State too.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Good call.

Should be the best candidate, not just the best one from that small group of schools.

Illinois State anagrams to Alien Soil Tits

I mean, if the candidate doesn't come from Murray St, what are we even doing?

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

It's going to be Galen Scott, isn't it.

I can just see Fuente selling it as "He has spent some time away to focus on his family and now we are willing to give him a second chance. We are a family, and Galen is a part of our family, so we will welcome him back and help him rebuild his life and move forward."

He can have Scott be Bud's successor as some had theorized was the original plan and he gets to throw in a redemption story for his buddy. As said by other posters, Fuente does not have the luxury of enough time for a complete overhaul of the defense. He needs to bring in someone he is comfortable with and that knows the defense. If Fuente is on the hot seat at the end of the season, a lot of top choices for DC may balk at the opportunity to come work for what some would see as a "lame duck" head coach. His options would be limited in that case, so Scott looking for a return gig would be an easy choice for him.

It just makes too much sense and I hate that the idea popped into my head.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

So what happened after what happened?

Galen Scott hired by ODU in January.

In March he becomes the LB coach at North Texas.

???????

Wait, what?

I will get that job before Galen Scott does. Whit isn't going there, no matter what Fuente wants.

I have to think that the opportunity to be the DC at VT, a team historically known for tough defense, would be one of the higher places to go for an aspiring DC. We may not be the top of the mountain defensive school wise but I think in terms of what we are known for we are up there. Granted we had a horrible last year but we still lead in sacks and ints I believe. If I'm looking to be a solid DC VT has got to be on my radar.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

There is also the case of "You never want to be the guy following the legend" Our fan base holds CBF in almost higher regard the CFB. In the new DC's 3rd year when our defense isn't top 10 in all defensive categories, the fan base will be calling him a failure.

Is Bud playing down the defense the last year or so so the new guy can step in and immediately do better? /s

In the new DC's 3rd year when our defense isn't top 10 in all defensive categories, the fan base will be calling him a failure

I'd say it's extremely optimistic that he'll get 3 years before we have fans calling the new DC a failure.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I know two names I'd like to see:
1) Corey Raymond, current Secondary coach at LSU, and currently ranked in the top 10 as a recruiter. He went to LSU, but is currently making $310,000 - we bump that up to $750-$900k, he may think of making move for a full time DC gig.

2) Todd Bates, currently D-Line coach at Clemson, and currently ranked #1 as a recruiter. Alabama alum, currently making $250k - same scenario of throwing some money out there for him.

Look like two solid options.

I'm just here to sling some legs

Bates is in year 3 of FBS coaching. Plus 3 years in FCS. I'd rather have JHam if we're going with a completely inexperienced but promising young coach.

But Bates is a Venables product, and is the top recruiter in the country right now in the class of 2020. I'd take that risk, and leverage his Alabama ties allow him to go after his network to build everything.

But jham is a Bud foster product....and touting a top recruiter at Clemson or Alabama is akin to having all the coaches from those schools drive an ice cream truck through a Jenny Craig convention and then saying, "look at how many bomb pops jake sold"

Not discounting Bates chops, but the thinking that because they can recruit at Clemson or Alabama doesn't mean it will translate to Tech. So far it seems like JHam is recruiting well, he would likely be a lifer at VT if given the opportunity. He took an indirect route to where he has gotten, but all of those experiences (strength coach, dc at a smaller school, quality control coach, played rb, played wr, played safety, played nfl) makes the guy about as well rounded as one could be. Discounting him just because he isn't from a big school or has fbs DC experience shouldn't be done in my opinion. Not saying he should be the guy, but just saying if he ends up being the guy it's likely that Bud vouches for him and Fuente trusts him. If he does land the job, for those reasons, I hope there isn't moaning and groaning about it......but that is like saying I hope we can all be okay if Fuente chose pie over cake

I'm not necessarily discounting JHam- if we eventually choose to stick with a guy that has been in the program then there are obvious benefits. The thing I would like for us to seriously ask ourselves is would we position ourselves with more talent down the road if we switched our scheme on defense outside of a traditional Bud Foster Defense? We've been doing fine in certain areas with talent, but are recruits looking for something different when it comes to scheme and how they fit? I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to that question.

Bates also has similar experiences: he played at Alabama, played 2 years in the NFL, coached at high school, coached at Jacksonville State, and is now in charge of arguably the best defensive line in the country for the last 3 seasons. They have similar experiences. Bates is #1 in the country for recruiting, though he is at Clemson so there it is not as big of a sell as it would to get kids to commit to Virginia Tech

Sounds like a good HC prospect if CJF doesn't work out.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: β€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

Bingo on recruiting DL at Clemson and DBs at LSU/Bama. We need to be hiring the best Defensive Coordinator available, whoever that may be, not just the best recruiter. I don't know a lot about some of the coaches mentioned(they may be as good at coaching as they are recruiting) but I do think DC is too important of a position to sacrifice coaching talent for recruiting. You can hire your recruiting specialist as a tight ends coach (Brian Stinespring) etc... not as a coordinator (Brian Stinespring).

I'd rather have a rising star in the coaching industry with Power 5 coaching and recruiting experience at a major program outside of Virginia Tech than an existing DC who is just another 'coaching connection' among the FCS/Group of 5 ranks with "potential." We're not going to be able to replace with another Bud, but we can certainly create some excitement with the hire who knows how to handle big time situations in big time games.

Clemson recruited 5 star athletes leading up to their championship run and is what got the ball rolling. Elite recruiting is definitely the egg and the success is the chicken

Recruit Prosim

Hold on, are you definitively saying the egg came before the chicken?

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

No the chicken had to lay the egg, everybody knows that

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Hold on, are you definitively saying the egg came before the chicken?

It seems so.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

25 seconds? Kevin is a stud.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Now you're just rubbing it in

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

exit light

I'm saying the Clemson recruiting egg came before the Clemson natty chicken

Recruit Prosim

Is Natty chicken where you shove the beer can inside the carcass before roasting?

Yes. But beer can pheasant is better

Recruit Prosim

Anything special to that recipe? I love hunting birds but dont have a recipe better than a breaded pan fry for pheasant (still delicious). Do you do anything very different than beer can chicken?

I actually don't recommend cooking with a can. Cans have a thin plastic liner inside them and exposing it to that heat is probably not good for you

Recruit Prosim

Clemson has never had a top 5 recruiting class ever that I know of. This year will be the first. They have only had like 4 top ten recruiting classes and only one of them came before 2015 (first NCG). So i disagree that coaching and player development are not the most important aspects to Clemson's success. Up to now, Recruit wise they've had no business competing with Alabama. And the top ten classes they got came when they were winning 11 games and beating Ranked teams in big games (the one ingredient I always felt Beamer lacked in taking this program to the next level). I'm all for recruiting better, I just don't think we will ever achieve that until we win some big games and build excitement around the program. And that will take good coaches.

We're not going to consistently win big games until we recruit better. Hard stop. Coaching won't do enough to overcome the gap in talent.

I don't care what their class rank was, splitting hairs between top 5 or top 10 is stupid. They had a blue chip ratio of 52% when they won their first title.

Recruit Prosim

Up to now, Recruit wise they've had no business competing with Alabama.

I disagree. To say they had no business is simply hyperbolic. Bama's tip-top recruiting puts them in a tier above Clemson in total talent, but not necessarily starting talent. Bama has more talented depth in most years, but they can only put 11 players on the field at one time the same as anyone else. Clemson was recruiting plenty of 5* and high 4* guys through the years leading up to their sustained CFP success and was recruiting over the blue-chip ratio. Additionally, in more recent years, they had some EXTREMELY talented classes that their class ranking was artificially held down by class size. Their avg. recruit ranking was top 5 in both 2017 and 2018. That 2017 class was ranked 16th (with only 14 commits, but 2 5*'s and 8 4*s). In 2018 they had an even more absurd class, but only finished 7th with 17 commits. They had FIVE 5*'s in that class and 7 more 4*'s, avg recruit ranking was 93.45 which was higher than Bama's 5th ranked class with 22 commits, only two 5*'s and 91.94 avg recruit ranking.

And the top ten classes they got came when they were winning 11 games and beating Ranked teams in big games (the one ingredient I always felt Beamer lacked in taking this program to the next level). I'm all for recruiting better, I just don't think we will ever achieve that until we win some big games and build excitement around the program. And that will take good coaches

Also wrong. Clemson had a 9th ranked class in 2008, coming off a disappointing 9-4 2007 season where they expected to be great. Their 2011 class, coming off a LOSING 6-7 season that almost saw Dabo fired, finished 10th with three 5* recruits. Clemson has won double digit games every year since then, so this holds true now, but it was not always true. You can recruit in down years when you have a staff who is effectively communicating their vision and pitching recruits on the future. Dabo is great at that, he has built a staff that is great at that.

Another example of this is Mack Brown's current recruiting class. UNC's last two seasons are 3-9 and 2-9. Look at the DL class they currently have, total class rank 18th at the moment, and they (supposedly) lead for 5* DE Desmond Evans. I'm pretty sure all, or maybe all but 1-2 recruits in that class committed before they started 2-0 with wins over SCar and Miami.

Whatever you say on all that blue chip ratio and median altitudinal planchement rankings /s. I don't have the time to dispute or argue numbers that can be twisted one way or another. Fact is there was a whole bunch of teams recruiting as good as Clemson when they began their ascension to the top but Clemson was the team winning big games and gaining excitement. VT was there once, that's how we got Kevin Jones etc... but we never won the big games and it soon faded away. You bring up Mac Brown at UNC. He's a proven winner that no one would have wanted in bburg because he's "too old" and won't be able to recruit. But guess what.. a team that couldn't spell win last year looks pretty good (with the same players) and; therefore, has a little excitement that has garnered the attention of a couple of high profile recruits that might just go play for a boring 75 year old coach that has proven he knows how to win and develop players.

The only flaw in your Mack Brown argument is that he didn't really recruit the players he has. He is a good (maybe even very good) X's and O's coach. This UNC season (if they keep it up) says more about their previous coach than it does Brown.

Mack got Howell, which is undoubtedly the biggest and already most important recruit in that class.

I'm not sure how people think JHam is ready for a coordinator role. Bates might only have 3 years of FBS coaching experience, but JHam has 3 games of experience coaching an FBS team. Also, Bates experience at Jacksonville state was far more successful than JHam's VMI experience.

Not knocking JHam; I think he could be a great coach, but he's completely unproven. That's fine for a GA role, and even okay for a position coach role IMO, but not for a coordinator role.

Twitter me

Get either one of these guys to Blacksburg, and as soon as either one of them sniff a SEC offer, Dey out.

The Flight Tracker threads will be melting the internet every season.

Leonard. Duh.

If we make a good hire and they perform well that's going to be likely to happen no matter where they come from.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Yeah this is pretty standard across all CFB. If they are getting SEC interviews they must've been doing some pretty good things for us.

"I thought the kid right there you're talking to right there played his nuts off."

That wouldn't happen if we had joined the SEC.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Get either one of these guys to Blacksburg, and as soon as either one of them sniff a SEC offer, Dey out.

If they coach up their staff and hire well, then we can promote from within and build a culture that is attractive to young up and comers.

VT fans need to learn that not every coach is Bud Foster or Frank Beamer. We should be aiming to get 3 years out of every hire. That's realistic.

Twitter me

VT fans need to learn that not every coach is Bud Foster or Frank Beamer. We should be aiming to get 3 years out of every hire. That's realistic.

This.

Shoot, Saban is even operating off a 3 year - or even shorter - coaching cycle. Just look at that turnover on his staff.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, the last DC hired at Tech with absolutely no previous coaching or playing experience at Tech was Ron Zook in 87?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

He can recruit

TIL Ron Zook worked at VT.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Does this mean that Ron Zook is part of the Beamer Coaching Tree?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I would say he is from Gottfried as he work with Frank at Murray St.

Just to add to the fantasy...

I just finished my first season of NCAA 14 on PS3 (finished 12-2, Won the ACC Championship against Clemson 24-9 but lost the Orange Bowl to Oklahoma 45-38, it was a shootout for sure). At the end of the season Brad Corneleson took the Head Coaching job at Kent State and Bud Foster retired. the replacements for my two coordinators were Neal Brown as the new OC (fired by WVU) and Clayton White (WKU DC) as the new DC.

β€œTHE CUP IS GOING NOWHERE MIKEY!!! THEY DID IT SOMEHOW!!”

I have no clue who the next DC will be, or who in particular we should pursue. But my formula for finding him would be to identify the 5 or so best defensive units in P5, then identify the top coaches from each. That's the pool, then narrow down from there.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

Just a thought, but whoever we bring in, if they are from outside of the Hokie family, they could very well clear house on the defensive side. So JHam, Pierson, Charlie, etc could be out. And honestly, it would be their right to do so and if they choose so, may be the best path forward.

We have had coordinators in the past try and come in and work with what we have, and that hasn't always gone well...

Charles Kelley from Alabama, he is the Co-Defensive coordinator with solid experience with Defensive backs.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

They run a 3-4 scheme. I'd rather we didn't have to go through a drastic personnel change when switching defenses. Though this doesn't mean he only can run 3-4.

What's
Important
Now

Charles Kelly ran a 4-3 when he was the DC at Florida State (2014-2017), and FSU fans were not fond of him. Perhaps in hindsight they miss him now. His "Associate DC" title at Bama is an honorific more than anything. Pete Golding is the true DC and play-caller. Kelly is mainly their safeties coach.

I think who we end up going after is going to depend a lot on how the rest of this season plays out. If Kill can come in and help Fuente fix his offense and we turn things around, I can see us going after some big outside names. If nothing works and we have another bad year, I could honestly see us just promoting from within like a JHam or Wiles. It will be exceedingly hard to get a big outside name in after another bad year walking into what would almost assuredly be a lame duck HC situation. For Fuente's and the program's sake, I hope Kill can help him right the ship. Or else you might as well write 2020 off and just wait for wholesale regime change after that.

If nothing works and we have another bad year, I could honestly see us just promoting from within like a JHam or Wiles. It will be exceedingly hard to get a big outside name in after another bad year walking into what would almost assuredly be a lame duck HC situation.

Disagree. Incoming candidates will care about money and opportunity to advance. If we pay well, it'll be fine.

Twitter me

Some will certainly still be interested, but if you know you're coming into a situation where the HC is likely gone at the end of the year and you're not going to have time to develop your scheme and players, it's going to drastically limit the number, quality of talent, and overall interest. Sure, someone might still jump because of money alone, but our options to pull from won't be great. Not many good coaches are going to walk into a no win situation.

I mean, Graham Harrell (and Kliff Kingsberry) were hired at USC as they were/are falling apart. Dave Aranda went to LSU knowing that Les Miles was going to refuse to run an offense, and likely get fired. Mike Elko went to ND right after Brian Kelley went 3-9 and was on the hot seat. Also, all of these examples are from the last three seasons.

Not many good coaches are going to walk into a no win situation.

We might be agreeing here, but I think plenty of coaches will take a tough job if they believe they can turn it around. It has nothing to do with Fuente potentially being on the hot seat. There's three things that will discourage a potential DC from going to VT:

  • Pay
  • Quality of players on the roster
  • Working relationship with Fuente

Working with Fuente won't be an issue, assuming he gives the incoming DC the same freedom that Foster has. We won't offer USC/ND/LSU money, but I expect our new DC to be paid similar to Foster. I'd be most concerned about the second bullet - does the roster have enough/the right talent to let the incoming DC run the system he wants to run? I just don't think this is a function of how Fuente/the offense does this year.

Twitter me

Has anyone thought that Bud might be retiring so that he could move to another program? He's closer to the turmoil than we are. Maybe he retires and then unretires to go try to win a championship somewhere else that is a little closer to winning. He is definitely getting those calls after the season.

I wouldn't blame him FWIW.

What's
Important
Now

That would be the worst way to go about it. I highly doubt it.

I guess it depends on how much his legacy here means to him. I feel like if he puss'd out and "fake retired" knowing full well he was going to un-retire in order to get picked up by a championship level school, he'd come off as a weak Benedict Arnold and lose all credibility from the VT fans.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

His contract is expiring. He could just leave at the end of the season if that's what he wanted to do.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I doubt Bud announced his retirement with any plans, or even real thoughts, about going elsewhere. However, if someone came calling with the right situation and offer, it might cause him to rethink retirement.
I also don't think Bud has any real issues with Fuente or the coaching staff. He might be at that stage though where it just isn't the same without Beamer.

retiring so that he could move to another program

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Well. apparently you have thought of this, and in light of what Bud said during the announcement this couldn't be a more outlandish thought.

Coach Foster is going to get him a beagle and walk laps around the drill field with Coach Beamer.

Leonard. Duh.

Yes, it has crossed my mind. Based on my #sauces, I don't think that is what he is thinking.

However, I wouldn't blame him for it and if someone came calling with a big bag full of money...

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

No because he is taking a special advisor role to Whit at VT.

VB born, class of '14

The only way Bud Foster is moving on to another program is if he's moving on to be the HC of OUR program.

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Think we can convince Jim Leonhard to leave Wisky? I think he has everything we'd need in a DC. Doesn't need 4 and 5-star players to put together a defense that excels. He's a loyal Badger, though, so I really doubt anyone's prying him away for a lateral move.

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

"You boys in there smokin' rope?"-Johnny Unitas (circa 1973) to his San Diego Chargers teammates

Lol never gonna happen. The badgers burned through 3 DCs in 3 years (other programs poached them all) and picked leonhard because he wanted to be a lifer. The only way hes leaving is if hes fired. Besides wisconsin actually runs the highest profit margin in the country for their athletic program. We are not in a better position than them

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

If the Fuente thing doesnt work out I am hoping for us to go full Tar Hole and re-hire Fancy Gap Frank as HC, Bud as DC, Stiney as OC, Billy Hite coaches the RB's, we get Cavanaugh back on the recruiting trail, gotta find a place for Whammy Ward and Charley Wiles as well. I, however, am not a proponent of bringing back Shane on this staff. Everything was fine before that boxing glove on a stick was introduced as part of practice.

VB born, class of '14

Thoughts on Nick Sorensen (DBs Seahawks) it Anthony Midget (DBs Texans)?

May not be a splash hire, but I'd be surprised if ODU's DC isn't on the shortlist

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

And he'd be a good one. Aggressive, swarming D, players play above their ranking, etc. Also was Clemson recruiting coordinator.

We put the K in Kwality

Chad Glasgow- TCU. Coached with JF at TCU but looks like a TCU lifer.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

After watching the Cincinnati game last night, I would very much be okay with Marcus Freemen as our next DC.

Marcus Freeman Bio

PLAYING CAREER
2004-08: Ohio State (Linebacker)
2009: Chicago Bears (Linebacker); Buffalo Bills (Linebacker); Houston Texans (Linebacker)

COACHING CAREER
2010: Ohio State - Graduate Assistant
2011-12: Kent State - Linebackers
2013-15: Purdue - Linebackers
2016: Purdue - Co-Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers
2017-: Cincinnati - Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers

There are two scenarios with Freeman:

1. Fickell takes another job and Freeman gets the Cincy job (fine with me if Fickell comes to Blacksburg)

2. Freeman leaves Cincy for a better DC job. Is VT a good enough job to get him? He's going to have options.

Posted this in another thread but he has a connection to our current staff so that might help if we do pursue Freeman. He was LB coach at Purdue 2013-2016 while Jafar Williams coached RBs there from 2013-2015.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

2009: Chicago Bears (Linebacker); Buffalo Bills (Linebacker); Houston Texans (Linebacker)

I wonder how many other guys played for three teams in one season. Hopefully he never signed a lease that year.

Hmm, I know Johnny Manziel was close! But he was more of an annual shuffle

Cincy looks like our teams of old, very envious last night. Their defense flied around and their offense dug out a win. And ran the ball.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Yeah, they were playing old school Hokie football. Defense making plays, running the ball to eat up clock, and give up a big drive at the end to make it close before pulling out a big win.

His stats are good and I listed him as a possibility in this thread...... but someone pointed out how much of the success is him and how much is Fickles? It's only his first year as DC.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: β€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

We doing a Game Day for Bud movement this year?

I would prefer to get an ACC W for Bud before jumping on that train.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I would love this. But if they didn't come for Frank (who had a big helping hand in building Gameday into what it is today), they damned sure ain't coming for Bud. Especially, with how we're playing.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Yeah, I figured. But it wouldn't hurt to try. He certainly deserves the effort.

We doing a Game Day for Bud movement this year? /s

FTFY

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I'm surprised it's taken this long. But the only DC I'd like to replace Bud Foster is Reefer Adoption

...I'll see myself out.

I laughed but this was so shameless I kinda want to leave it at zero legs :)

Proud author of one plaid comment.

Hmmmmm.....

Jerry Kill's former DC from Minnesota just up and resigned from Mike Leach's Washington State staff.

"I didn't resign for health or personal reasons," Claeys wrote. "The defense has struggled and I am responsible. We couldn't agree on solutions so the SPEED D is better with new leadership! I love the players and staff! They will finish strong! GO COUGS."

By resigning, he lost his salary through his contract that was slated to end in 2021.

Interesting! Certainly would set up for a smooth transition!

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/washington-state-defensi...

Mmm no - Claey's Defenses have ranked lower (according to SP+) than Foster's defenses have the last two seasons. Beyond that, Claey's is not familiar with the region, nor is he known as a great recruiter. Doesn't really address any of our team/program weaknesses.

Twitter me

Would prefer Chris Ash if we're looking at recently unemployed defensive minded coaches.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

As a NJ native and black sheep of a Rutgers family let me stop you right there.

He was an awful coach. The defense never progressed and he absolutely cannot recruit.

Claeys stinks, we can and should do better. Why would we hire a failed DC?

Yeah, I gotta agree with this.

We're not looking for the easy solution, we're looking for the "help get us to the next level" solution.

Apparently new rumors are popping up on 247 that a DC has been selected and agreed to in principle (Will Stewart is the source, whoever that is).

Also, saw some chatter on other sites that not many of the kids want Wiles to be next DC.

If we hire someone during the season, my thoughts would be it's someone who isn't an active coach, maybe NFL coach, or a coach who recently became available. Just can't see any other programs letting their coaches have these conversations during the season and feel like that would be heavily publicized.

Isnt Will Stewart a contributor to 247? I still think the DC is JHam.

TSL's Will Stewart? I don't think so- TSL is his thing, obviously

Yes, Will Stewart (of TSL) stated this on the Subscriber Board the other day. A source told him there is an agreement in principle. Not surprised it's already over to 247, so I don't mind sharing it here.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

So if there is an agreement in principle, the guy is probably not employed now, or is on the staff.

Maybe, I don't know.

It could be someone who is employed now. That's why it was called an agreement in principle, not a signed contract. There are go-betweens that negotiate this kind of stuff all the time.

He did say it was a pretty good source, so we got that going for us.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

It is almost certainly someone coaching elsewhere right now. Lack of certainty is not helping recruiting; there is no reason to withhold the name if they are already on staff.

Or he's doing the Buzz Williams thing (which I was/am completely okay with).

Twitter me

Dude. What if it is Buzz Williams.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

the guy is probably not employed now

Most hires are with a coach currently employed. Fuente was still employed.

Most defensive coordinators and position coaches work on 1 year contracts. Depending on "no compete" clauses (which may be illegal dependent on jurisdiction) in the current employment contract, it doesn't seem that out of the ordinary for a coordinator or coach interview for a position in which he doesn't currently have anything lined up. That said, if the coordinator or coach is at another institution, I'm sure it's customary to request the opportunity to interview the coordinator or coach from that AD and HC. You would be a dick to say no (and likely create a situation that the coordinator or coach leaves anyways).

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

I have a feeling about this too. Starting early in the season there was a lot of praise for him and continued talk about his capabilities and future.

I still think the DC is JHam.

This would disappointing IMO. He has 7 games experience as a position coach. I get that he's charismatic, but that doesn't mean he can design and call players.

Twitter me

VT can, should, and will hire a more experienced guy than J Ham for this position.

I'd be surprised if kids are openly saying they don't want Wiles to be the next DC.

It will be a very sad day if we lose both Wiles and Foster though. If Jack and Jham are able to stay around, it would be nice or else there will be zero connections to the days of old on that staff.

Gobble Till You Wobble

If the rumors are really from Will, they're likely legit

He owns TechSideLine and between him and Chris, they're very keyed into whats going on behind the scenes.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Talking to a coach during the season happens all the time. We weren't happy when Buzz did it, but it happens.

Will Stewart is the owner of TechSideline.

Yep. He said that his source mentioned that a DC has been agreed upon, but he does not have a name.

I'm already excited about the inevitable bickering among the fanbase about the pros and cons of the hire. Should be a popcorn bourbon worthy event.

To add another layer, technically he (Will Stewart) said his source got the info from another source within the program.. so it's still third-hand.

@CraigThompsonVT

...but he does not have a name.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

If you see these characters, they represent specific people (as of Oct. 2):

Palpatine (Fuente) || Vader (Hooker) || Kylo Ren (QP4) || Lando (Deablo)

If we had just renamed the Defensive Coordinaotr position to Bud Foster than we wouldnt need a name, we'd have Bud Foster!

Will is the GM. He "sold" the site to SportsWar Several years back. For all intents and purposes, yes he is the "owner" still

Ehh, more like he created SportsWar to act as the umbrella owner of all their sites, of which they run TheSabre (UVa), TechSideLine (VT), Boneyard Banter (ECU), and Dawg Run (UGa).

But if you go to their site, Will is listed as the sole employee (President and CEO) of SportsWar, so... yeah. (Which also means VT literally owns TheSabre.)

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Oh, OK- I thought SportsWar existed , and then brought TSL and the Sabre... didn't know will started sports war.

TSL originated as The Hokie Huddle back in the 90s, but had to change their name when Weaver flexed on the use of 'Hokie' pretty much everywhere.

I want to say sometime in the mid-to-early 2000s the owner of TheSabre needed some financial help to keep that site afloat, and Will bought it. That's when SportsWar was spun up to act as the overall owner, allowing them to create/buy/spin off sites for some others, such as Boneyard Banter, without everything being affiliated directly with VT.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

It was Hokie Central... and Will has always said that Sabre had much more traffic than TSL... so again, yes interesting.

It gets more clicks because you only get the first 7 words of each comment.

Click here to destroy wall.

Whats crazy is that about 10 years ago, they migrated to something more in line with what TKP has, but scrapped it because it made too many of their longer term users confused.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

But... tEch fANs duMB, waHOo's sMaRT...

Claeys would be a depressing hire. Please do not replace Bud Foster with Claeys...

The way things are trending with this search I am starting to think even if it's not Claeys it's got a strong chance of being a disappointing, or at most not very exciting hire.

It's going to disappoint slot of people who can't understand why top end coaches aren't coming here for less than 1 million.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I don't think any rational fans are expecting us to land a currently elite DC... so this comment doesn't mean shit to me. There are a plenty of tiers between "current elite DC" and "very disappointing hire" and I think we are going to land closer to the latter than the former.

Who would take a job that might only last 1 year for 650,000k replacing a legend?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

$650,000K to coach at VT? Sign me up, even if only for a year.

The list of excuses that will be made if we make a disappointing DC hire

I mean, it'll be about 400,00 dollars reasons why it could be a disappointing hire.

Why are we only paying $650k and not $800-900k?

And why would this job expire after a year? You think Fuente's seat is that hot?

Edit: Fuente's seat is still hot, but way too early to determine how short his leash will be next year.

Twitter me

Because we have a $15 million dollar "commitment" elsewhere.

/s hopefully not /s

Stadium highspeed WIFI.

/s

If Fuente is really that big of a hindrance on who we can target and the salary we can dedicate to the position, you have to think we would be better off just pressing the reset button on the program. Although Fuente has likely done enough to buy himself another year, I think the administration has realized the buyout was premature and Fuente still is learning to be a P5 coach.

There will be some percentage of the fanbase unhappy just because it isn't Bud Foster and they will make excuses for why the new guy isn't good enough. There are tiers like you say but not ad many as you would think once you match up dollars, experience, recruiting and success.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

My thought process is if we can't land a top guy or we aren't going to target a Bud disciple, then i really hope we can find a young up and comer that can have a big influence on recruiting.

Gobble Till You Wobble

There are plenty of candidates who fall between Tracey Cleays-caliber and $1M+ caliber. So there is no need to continue to make everything so binary.

That said, Bud makes $1M now, so why exactly couldn't we hire someone for that much if we wanted to go that route? Even if we didn't, a guy like Torrian Gray makes $450k now. (Looking past his history with Fuente) A 650k or 700k salary and the title of DC would be a pretty compelling offer.

If we haven't at least made the offer to Gray then i'll be pretty pissed. At least put the ball in his court and if he wants to let old bad blood keep him from a 200k+ pay raise then at least we did our part and thats on him.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Money is a factor, but I would also think no defensive coordinator worth his salt is coming to Tech to work for a head coach possibly on the hot seat. Coaches smell the same blood in the water as fans.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I don't think everyone sees it the same. Lots of coaches have money and are opportunists for a situation with talent and schemes to improve their name as well as some just love football. Young team with talent and obviously improving. This situation is not dire and for many coaches might be a grea proving ground.

Bottom-line is I don't believe it's black and white. Not everyone goes for the sure thing and many coaches would see the opportunity as a proving ground.

I said this earlier, but lots of coaches have joined a team knowing their walking into a hot seat. Graham Harrell (and Kliff Kingsberry) were hired at USC as they were/are falling apart. Dave Aranda went to LSU knowing that Les Miles was going to refuse to run an offense, and likely get fired. Mike Elko went to ND right after Brian Kelley went 3-9 and was on the hot seat.

I think potential DC's need to believe that there is potential (aka, talent on the roster) to turn it around.

Twitter me

The similarity there is those are all blue-chip programs. Unsure if Tech has the same draw, or bankroll, to get folks to walk into a fire for a pay day. Maybe it does.

I don't understand this walking into a fire mentality. VT is one of the youngest power 5 teams in the nation with very little experience and is still getting better week by week. With all the noise the players are still out going hard on every play. Nothing looks like Fuente has lost the locker room. We are missing out on recruits bc their is no way onto the roster right now. 4 and 5 stars are looking to play right away.

I really just don't get all the negativity. The ACC coastal has caught up to Tech before Frank left and everyone still thinks we should be Clemson. The landscape of College Football has changed. Players are looking to play. That is across the nation. Look at all the other teams that were one step beneath blue bloods. They have to cycle every 4 years now also. USC, UW, Auburn, Texas, Oregon, FSU, Miami, etc, all used to just win a ton of games. Look at all the big football schools everyone struggles to win now unless you are Alabama, Clemson, Georgia who can manage keeping depth on their roster.

VT problems are the same that all the other same tier football teams have been experiencing for the last decade. I don't think you can name one school that is not Alabama or Clemson that has not had a down year and had to coach them up.

Throw into the fact that college football success when you are no Alabama or Clemson is based on your QB and VT has young inexperience QBs that are growing.

This is not a fire, this is par for the course in CFB. Fans better get used to it, trust me, we are not the only fans not used to it.

Great post. Unfortunately, message boards are full of people who think everything is much easier than it truly is. Not sure if that's their life (in)experience or their misunderstanding of what it takes to run a successful program.

I also bet the same people that feel they can openly criticize the players and coaches hate receiving feedback in their actual life and definitely wouldn't say anything to the coaches/players in person.

My comment is from the perspective of any top-end, would-be coordinator. They are not fans of the program. They are out to get paid and better their career (usually from winning games). Not unlike most of the working population, they want to maximize salary and job security.

I'm not sure every coordinator has the exact same perspective. Different people probably see different potential here, and also are in different places in their own career.

Anyway, we're going to find out soon enough.

This......Rhet Lashlee was making 900k as the Auburn OC, but Malzhan was calling the plays. So he decided to take a huge pay cut (about a 600k pay cut) a few years ago to prove himself and took the UConn OC job. He's now the OC at SMU and I'm sure will quickly be on the short lists of head coaching jobs soon. He may be an outlier, but he is proving that there isn't just one way to go about making it to your ultimate goal.

Exactly. This group think around hiring a "name" wreaks of celebrity thinking - aka I know the name and they have "experience" therefore they are big time and will automatically be successful.

VT will never be successful with that strategy as they don't have the money, geography or broad appeal. Period. VT needs to find someone like your reference - someone who is motivated, talented, fits the culture and most of all wants to prove their career and will put the energy into the program.

This is hard to do, but is the formula to success at VT.

Speculation, but I'd think there are quality coaches we can attract:

Dont underestimate the power of Whit. I think he 'sells' VT well.
I also think the dynamic is a little different now (again, speculation.) At VT, we have Fuente as HC, but it's Bud's D. Essentially two 'head coaches.' Kinda like clemson with Venables making HC money. I have no clue if Fuente will reclaim part of that ownership, but as a prospective DC, that may be an attraction.
Also, its not unheard of for assistants/coordinators to get the HC job after a firing..... dabo, Ed Orgeron come to mind.

The way things are trending with this search

I don't understand what this means. As in... candidates haven't been publicly announced or the next coach already named? Honestly I don't understand how someone can comment how the DC search is "trending" at this point when there is essentially zero information. Wtf is the obsession with trying to make every game, action, and decision into a trend?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Top concern - can the new coaches recruit?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

This is why I would roll my dice on someone from an LSU/Alabama/Clemson defensive position coach, who has worked his way up, maybe played in the league, but can recruit like hell! (Todd Bates #1 in 2020 Recruiting at Clemson and Corey Raymond at LSU #6 in 2020 Recruiting)

Both are getting paid under $300k/year now and would definitely take a DC job at $800k even if only for 3-4 years. Why? because they would put everything they have into out DC job, because it would help them get back to their Alma Mater or the SEC as a DC.

Doubt thats the concern of our coaches. At the end of the day, you still have to be able to coach. If I had to guess, recruiting is going to be at least the 3rd priority behind X's & O's knowledge, and program fit (i.e., staff familiarity *sigh*). Whit and Fuente view VT as a developmental program more akin to Wisconsin and Michigan State rather than a talent powerhouse like Penn State or FSU.

It's going to piss nearly everyone off, but Whit & Fuente are going to feel a lot more comfortable letting a coach learn how to recruit, rather than letting a coach learn how to coach.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

They better as hell know how to recruit

I don't care how good of an Xs and Os coach you are, if you can't bring in quality kids here, you aren't going to compete.

Period

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I don't care how good of an Xs and Os coach you are, if you can't bring in quality kids here, you aren't going to compete

I mean... Bud Foster has done it.

Would I like a great recruiter? Absolutely, but I also realize that great recruiter/coaching combos are hard to come by and I'd rather focus our efforts in becoming a great developmental program rather than thinking we're going to turn into PSU overnight with a great recruiting DC.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

Bud Foster also brought in some pretty damn good starter, and healthy depth behind them.

The last two seasons our starters have at best been super young, at worse less talented, and our depth has been less than ideal as well.

Twitter me

I would argue that other coaches on the staff with Bud brought in some pretty damn good starters and healthy depth behind them. I don't think Bud was the primary recruiter on a lot of those kids and Beamer probably was the closer (or Fuente, more recently.)

That's fair - recruiting is definitely a team sport. But for this team (aka, this coaching staff) recruiting is 100% a weakness. We need to change that, and I think this hire needs to reflect that.

I'm not asking us to sign a top 10 class immediately after the new coach is hired, but I'd like to see a top 25 class next year, and a top 20 class in the next few years. I don't think this is an unreasonable goal for a program like VT.

Twitter me

Our defenses of the mid-2000s had some excellent recruits on it. For a while, we were making a healthy name for ourselves by bringing in high 4* guys and the occasional 5* player to solidify our defense playing for one of the best Xs and Os coaches out there.

The second we stopped bringing in those high level recruits with frequency, we fell off a cliff. Look at how we've done over the past couple years for a prime example of how tough it is to win when your recruiting struggles (our defensive recruiting over the last few years, especially on DL has been poor, and the results show)

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

This is a really beautiful narrative, but you're remembering a complete fiction. We haven't gotten "occassional" 5* players on Defense; we've had one. Kendall Fuller got here in 2013.

We've had the same caliber recruits now since the mid-2000's. The biggest difference between our defenses late and then has nothing to do with the talent level of the incoming recruits.

Attrition is the principal reason our defensive performance fell off a cliff in 2018. We faced a similar step back in 2008 when we lost a ton of production to graduation (Adibi, Hall, Ellis, Booker, Parker & Powell). We were fortunate that all of the new starters were journeymen and underclassmen who had each spent considerable time as backups and were ready to take on their roles (Sturdivant, Worilds, Grimm, Cordarrow). Ended up with a pretty respectable defense that season.

In 2018 we were starting scores of true and redshirt freshmen who were not ready to take over starting spots.

While the attrition due to injuries/behavior were already high, the early departures to the NFL likely hurt the most. Three of the most talented players to don a Hokie uniform all jumped ship in the same off-season; in the middle of a period of already high attrition.

We did not have reserves ready to take on those roles, and our defense was awful last year because of it. Farley, Rivers, Hollifield, Ladler and Garbutt and Watts were not "low-rated recruits".

I think you're right on the money. To further your point, I think, when you have this much youth you don't have the more experienced guys on the field also to cover for the youth. If you have two or three freshman, it's already tough enough for the experienced guys to lead and help hide the weakness of the freshmen. But when they're all young, it's a mess until they start to gel which takes a while. I think we're seeing the early stages of that gelling which should mean a good team next year and a very good team the year after.

Farley, Rivers, Hollifield, Ladler, Garbutt and Watts were not "low-rated recruits".

Watts was a mid 3 star with offers from Rutgers, Kansas, and BC. But otherwise your point is spot on.

Good catch- Thank you.

I'd say DeAngelo Hall would be a 5 star in today's context. Macho Harris certainly was. So I don't think "occasional" is off the mark here. The real fiction is the notion that we've been recruiting at the same level since the early-mid-2000s. The guys we've had since the Macho Harris' days haven't been chopped liver, but the over all talent and depth has not been on the same level since oh... about 2005-07 timeframe.

I responded to the point that the reason our defense tanked in 2018 was due to recruiting; and I absolutely don't believe this to be true.

I certainly believe we had a temporary uptick in program interest, as evidenced by landing the consensus 2001 top overall recruit in the nation in Kevin Jones. Temporary being the key word- pre and post Big East VT teams were definitely two seperate programs in terms of the value of recruitment interest.

To respond to your points (Gets kinda nerdy and long-winded from here- apologies in advance):

MACHO: Macho Harris was an elite recruit, and if he wasn't a 5*, he was damn close. He was rated a 5* by Rivals (He was the 28th rated recruit; and the 29th rated recruit, Mohammed Massaquoi, was rated as the Top 4* recruit on their service.

However, to be considered a consensus 5* on 247, the mix of ratings available for that year must put you on that level (essentially there are about 30-40 5* recruits a year). 247 lists Macho as the 39th rated recruit in that link above, and he is the top rated 4* by consensus.

It's a lot simpler to simply state that David Wilson was a 1st round draft pick, and Ryan Williams was NOT; since there's a really easy and objective way to see this is true.

As for national recruiting rankings, the 247 Consensus is generally relied upon to be the standard bearer. This is certainly not as cut and dry as an NFL draft position (In fact, the 247 consensus rating for Macho Harris was created retroactively in 2012).

I'm certainly not saying there's not a debate to be had about Macho Harris, but on the closest thing to an objective standard that we have to go on, he misses the cut by one place.

DEANGELO: Deangelo Hall was a recruit in 2001; finding recruiting profiles from that far back is a pain in the dick. He was certainly a Blue Chip recruit (which is generally a term specific to both 4* and 5* recruits). Tech Sideline has him listed as a 4*

His retroactive 247 profile doesn't list a rating, and in the 2001 consensus, he's not listed within the top 129 recruits. He's also not listed in Tom Lemmings top 100 for the 2001 season. So I'm not sure how to make the argument that DeAngelo Hall would have been in the top 30-40 recruits for that season; and so I don't think he was nearly as close to being a 5* recruit as Macho was.

Would you like to see some charts & graphs?

After the 2016 season I created an Infographic that I shared on here. I'm not somebody who regularly keeps an eye on recruiting rankings, but I've definitely taken some deep looks at recruiting rankings and statistics in general. So, I'm relatively keen on random details like D.J. Coles was once a consensus 5* based on a 247 glitch that has since been fixed.

I DON'T have a shred of insider knowledge, other than the random chatter I pick up here and occasionally on Reddit. If a position coach forgot to say hi to a recruit's mom, I will find out just as quickly as anybody else who frequents this site. I don't have a 24/7 profile. I don't generally dispute any insider information, and am as excited as you are when BAG or LAHokie posts an exciting nugget of info about a potential commit on this site.

BUT.

But. I do heavily dispute the notion that recruiting rankings are as volatile and "coach-driven" as most people seem to believe.

WHY IS THAT?

When I created the Bud Foster Football cards, I wanted to see what level of talent the top DCs were playing both with and against. So I created a recruiting engine in Excel using the 247 class rankings back to 2003. When I did this, I managed to come up with a homemade method to calculate roster talent that ended up surprisingly comparable to the 247 Talent Composite.

One of the principal drawbacks to a "homemade" calculation like this is that it doesn't account for attrition; it only accounts for input. The Talent Composite goes through each roster each year and calculates the score from scratch, so in the age of the transfer portal, I'll take the Talent Composite every time. But until 2015, unless a team experienced significant attrition (Post-Mangino Kansas, Randy Edsall at Maryland), it appears to be accurate.

To get a calculation that fairly closely mirrors team talent, you have to disregard the annual 247 class ranking. I've discussed this on here in the past- the calculation method 247 uses for this is disingenuous and, while exciting, it primarily focuses on the top couple of recruits in each class and mostly disregards the rest of the class.

If you focus on AVERAGE recruiting ranking and then take the number of recruits in each class into account, you can start to see numbers that level off and form coherent patterns (mostly, stability). Incidentally, while the 247 class ranking is random and volatile from season to season, they use the same calculation method to come up with the Talent Composite. Over an entire football roster's worth of players, that calculation then begins to mirror average talent. (In other words, as you scroll down the Talent Composite Rankings, you rarely find teams with AVERAGE talent that are out of order, even though the teams are ranked by the dubious "Gaussian Distribution Formula" that I'm clearly not a fan of.)

So here are some graphs I came up with for the ACC. This first one is basically the year-by-year rankings based on AVERAGE recruit ranking alone. While choppy and disjointed, I assure you a graph using the 247 Gaussian "Class Ranking" value season-by-season is FAR more chaotic:

In the second graph, the 247 talent composite only goes back to 2015. So what I've charted is the "Homemade" version of the talent composite that I calculated using only the average recruit and the number of recruits in each class:

This second graph looks far less chaotic than the first. So while the average recruit changes from class to class, the overall average roster talent is far less volatile. You can also see all of the team values seem to be slowly increasing; this is primarily due to the fact that so few recruits were ranked at the start of the data, and by the end of the graph almost every recruit on an FBS team is being evaluated with a ranking. It also changes as recruiting services are added to and removed from the composite every couple of years.

So to correct for this, you can do one of two things: create a correction factor to stablilize the ACC ranking across these seasons (Graph 3), or stabilize the national recruiting average across each season (Graph 4).

The more you correct for inconsistencies in recruiting data, the less chaotic it looks. And when you look for changes in Recruiting based on coaching changes or other red herring factors, you tend to walk away disappointed in most circumstances... Except

(2) SIGNIFICANT TRENDS

1. The Division between the Power 5 and the Group of 5 is a thing and it is real I kinda lucked into these graphs; once I combined all of the conferences and independents into one, huge, cluster****ed graph, it almost precisely split the P% conferences into solid colors and G5 teams into pastel. In addition to what you see on this graph, there are levels within the P5 and G5 as well- the SEC tends to have about a point or so on average above the rest of the P5; and the Mountain West and AAC have a similar advantage over their G5 counterparts.

There are also several teams which switched conferences within this timeframe. Typically you can follow these lines to see conference alignment benefitting and dropping as you would expect (Pitt actually dropped a bit when they entered the ACC, but it was nothing but a benefit for Syracuse & Louisville. Keep in mind, the Big East was an Auto-qualifier Conference before it went away, so that's not to say the Big East to the ACC was a major step up in prestige.)

(Uncorrected FBS recruiting rankings, above. Corrected, below)
2. Coaches are less significant (and more predictable) than you might think when it comes to talent/recruiting

When I first started looking at these numbers, I honestly expected to be able to see a lot more definitive events (especially coaching changes- I used to believe as much as anybody that firing a bad coach or hiring an exciting one could elevate a schools' recruiting value. I no longer believe this to be true, for the most part).

You could argue that Lane Kiffin was a boon to FAU; although you'd have to keep in mind that with the improvement of the recruiting rankings over time, CUSA and the Sun Belt were essentially the last two conferences that started getting all of their recruits ranked. I'd agree that Lane Kiffin was a special case; clearly a brilliant coordinator; and while he had unsuccessful stints at the helm of the Raiders, the Vols, and USC, the man clearly knows how to maintain a "larger than life" social presence. He's notably "bigger" and out of place at a school like FAU. So in that RARE case, I'd definitely conclude that a head coach was instrumental in raising a school's recruiting profile.

You can see where Boise State moved from the WAC to (almost the Big East before the fold) the more prestigious MWC. (2010 is denoted by "2" on the x-axis in this graph).

What you generally won't find are the coaching narratives you would EXPECT. Did Michigan's recruiting under (notable large, boring person) Brady Hoke plummet and then recover under (charming & exciting psychopath) Jim Harbaugh?

No. In fact, Rich Rodriguez sunk Michigan's talent pool on purpose (to implement his spread offense). The Michigan recruiting/talent returned to it's previous Blue-Blood level during an underwhelming and short Brady Hoke era, and then went absolutely flat and normal once Harbaugh took over. Jim Harbaugh might climb a lot of trees and start flames wars with the SEC, but the average level of recruit at Michigan hasn't budged since he took over. (If anything, the recruiting at Michigan under Harbaugh has gotten a tad worse. Raise your hand if you called that).

So, if a coach comes in to a Blue Blood and announces that he will be recruiting new players for a kitschy new scheme, you can see it on the graph.

If an overweight, boring, dud of a coach is replaced by a new, energetic, exciting coach, you can see the natural buoyancy of a school's attraction, and wouldn't be able to guess who was at the helm during those seasons.

So, TL;DR:

  • Recruiting rankings were not that accurate 15+ years ago
  • There's a lot that impacts recruiting, the least of which is the coach

Question on the second bullet - Is it possible that blue bloods always recruit at the same level because they tend to hire better coaches? Similarly, is it possible that mid-tier schools cannot recruit at a high level because it's difficult for them to attract good coaches for long periods of time? Have you done any analysis to decouple the effect of the coach and the school?

Anecdotally, we're seeing U of Washington, Oregon, and TAMU dramatically improve recruiting (surpassing a 50% bluechip ratio for the first) since their most recent hires. Now, I know these are cherry picked data points, and they only include a few years, but they do appear to suggest that coaches can have a high impact on recruiting.

Twitter me

There's a lot that impacts recruiting, the least of which is the coach

I'd mostly agree with this statement; but there are certainly less important variables than the coach. I think the intuitive guess most of us would make is that the coach makes all the difference in the world, and in reality a football coach is typically far less significant than the school/conference he coaches at.

Is it possible that blue bloods always recruit at the same level because they tend to hire better coaches?

On one hand, they tend to have a higher budgets, so yeah; you'd think they just hire all the good coaches and everybody else is just fighting for scraps.

On the other hand; the easiest way to see this in action is to flip it. What happens when Urban Meyer goes from Utah to Florida? Did he go from being a shitty Utah coach to a fantastic Florida coach? And why is he suddenly getting all of these great recruits? Did he used to be a shitty recruiter, and now he's just awesome?

The cool thing is, most FBS coaches leave a trail when they hop from job to job. And, yes, when they leave a MAC school to coach at a Big 10 School, they will without exception, go from pulling in MAC recruits to pulling in Big 10 recruits (and vice versa).

Similarly, is it possible that mid-tier schools cannot recruit at a high level because it's difficult for them to attract good coaches for long periods of time?

Actually big schools FIRE those super-best coaches precisely as often as they need to pick a new one up off the shelf, so coaching turnover sucks for just about everybody not going to the playoff year after year (with a coach that's making a boatload of cash and not interested in going the NFL).

I do apologize for not having graphs prepared for listings by coach, but if you're curious how any specific coaching change looked, I have included a link to each conferences' "corrected" graph below (not all of the G5 conferences have a corrected graph, so some of those are just raw data).

Big 12.....Pac 12.....SEC.....Big 10.....ACC....."Elite" schools

AAC.....MAC.....MWC.....CUSA.....SUNBELT.....Independent

Have you done any analysis to decouple the effect of the coach and the school?

When you follow a coach from school to school there are typically giant leaps and drops they take when they leave one job and go to the next (often it's a fairly lateral move, and you'll see a fairly insignificant change that simply follows what the school is capable of).

I thought coaches mattered A TON in recruiting rankings before I and I think that's just the intuitive and common viewpoint that's natural to most fans.

I can certainly see examples where the coach was involved in a major shift at a school, but the significant drivers in the long-term buoyancy of recruiting talent are clearly the (1.a) Conference affiliation and (1.b) the Prestige of the school.

So TL;DR #2:

  • Every school has a 'standard' level at which they recruit at in a 'typical' year. A coach who is great recruiter may be able to recruit slightly above the school's 'standard' level (Mack Brown at UNC), and a coach who is a subpar recruiter (Dan Mullen at Florida) may recruit slightly below the 'standard' level.
  • School typically 'regress towards the mean' overtime
  • There are a small handful of coaches who are able to outperform the standard at a school, but in order to change the standard, their has to be some sort of change in how the program is viewed nationally (change in conference, change in prestige of school, massive fundraising, etc)

Do you agree?

Twitter me

Pretty much.

1. I don't see why Dan Mullen is considered a poor recruiter (to the contrary, Mississippi state actually improved under his watch. There are NCAA infractions on the table that are just as likely as anything to explain it, though- so can't exactly say he's a good recruiter with that in mind). I'm in "wait-and-see" for Mack Brown and Locksley just like everybody, but my best guess is that unless there's a serious amount of resources getting invested into those schools in parallel, OR if and while their football teams can refrain from sucking for months at a time, their excitement will fizzle out soon enough.

2. Schools "regress towards the mean"; yes it seems like it. ("the mean" can certainly change, but it's gradual).

3. Right on.

Your blue-chip ratio is definitely an interesting question, and I admittedly haven't put much thought into it.

In my opinion the discovery and legwork put into the blue-chip ratio idea is freakin' awesome, but had the playoff existed during Boise State's reign of meek-but-highly-effective-terror, they would absolutely made the playoff at least once and blown that theory all to hell. There's still time, and I have to admit, it hasn't been disproven yet, but my guess is (most likely Boise) tears it down within the next decade.

Oregon and Texas A&M are certainly interesting cases, but in order to isolate the "coach" as the primary mover of their recruiting rise, you'd have to somehow separate the influence of the coaches from the program itself. If you're of the opinion that none of these schools have ramped up cashflow and spending in and around the programs, you could make an open and shut case that the coaches are to blame.

But it's an interesting question- did the actual Jimbo Fisher drama itself take over the news cycle, or was it the insane amount of money flying around that made the story so unbelievably fascinating?

I know that Oregon has been benefiting from the Phil Knight connection for years; similar to the OK State/T. Boone Pickens relationship. But I can't really see a good way to separate cash flow in these circumstances from just "the coach" himself. So I don't see any way to contribute that recruiting success directly with "the coach" (although if anybody blew my observation up, I'd be happy to see Chris Peterson do it).

Oregon and A&M are certainly interesting. A&M got a recruiting boost after it was announced they were SEC bound, and continued to recruit at a high level, but Jimbo Fisher's 2019 class took it to a whole new level finishing 4th and currently have the 7th best unfinished 2020 class.

The same for Oregon. They had landed some big talent before, usually on offense, but Cristobal has them recruiting at a very high level, and also on defense.
They went from recruiting around 30-16, to a 13th, 7th, and currently unfinished 16th ranked class under Cristobal in 18, 19, and 20 respectively.

I recently started working at Mizzou, so while I'm still catching up the football program here, it's most fascinating to look at their ascent into the SEC.

I haven't really found a true Mizzou fan to pick their brain on some of my deeper questions yet. But I truly buy that they put a lot of effort into blending into the SEC, and all they seem to be doing is treading water.

I think Texas A&M wasn't any more ready to really compete in the SEC when they joined, but they were WAY more prepared to throw money at it and try. I believe Texas A&M will end up (at some point) a big player in the SEC whether or not they ever compete for a title in the meantime.

They certainly threw a lot of money at their basketball coach.

I agree that A&M will do well in the SEC long term. There's a lot of talent in the area and A&M has serious financial resources. The change in conference was great for them. They were likely always going to be Texas' little brother in the Big 12. Now they can be a big fish in the SEC.

Good luck at Mizzou. I've never understood why they were in the SEC East.

Good luck at Mizzou. I've never understood why they were in the SEC East.

Because VT turned down the offer to be the 14th team.

I would have LOVED to be the 14th team in the SEC East. I'd be able to go to every Georgia and SCar away game, natural rivalry with Tennessee, head down to the swamp every couple years, always an exciting home schedule, SEC recruiting bump.... sigh

I had never heard this. I wonder why they turned it down?

As far as I know, we did not turn down a formal offer or anything like that. I know Mike Slive openly expressed his interest to get VT in the SEC for the Mid-Atlantic market . Not sure about all the backroom talk and politics that went into why that didn't happen at some point, but I wish it would have happened.

VT higher ups did not want to leave the ACC after the political mess it took to get us in in the first place. We were more focused on being with our "academic peers" and natural geographic rivals in the ACC. There was an offer on the table for us to go to the SEC. There will never be a formal offer extended publicly until both sides have agreed in principle. That's why you didn't hear about it officially. But they wanted us badly and we said no thanks. Ultimately a decision I think we will regret.

This is so disappointing to read.

Yep. Don't mean to go on a tangent, but the day we were accepted into the ACC, and especially after we won it year one, was when the entitlement and complacency crept into this program. We plateaued and stopped aspiring for more because we felt we had arrived. We can now rub shoulders with UVA, UNC, and Duke, which the VT old guard had dreamed of for years. Hokie Club became more about securing seats for alumni, Hokie Respect crept in to make sure the kids didn't get too rowdy at the games, all to make us more palatable to the country club that is the ACC. Honestly makes me mad thinking about and how it completely runs contrary to our fabric as a blue collar engineering and ag state school with a football first culture.

I think if had happened before we joined the ACC we'd have jumped at the chance. Our athletic dept lines up well. Part of me would be overjoyed to be in the SEC, but a small part feels like we'd be S. Carolina or Kentucky in football forever (not that we've really done better for ourselves over the last several years)

I think if had happened before we joined the ACC we'd have jumped at the chance.

Yeah, or if the ACC hadn't reluctantly taken VT, VT could have eventually gone to either the SEC or possibly the BIG10 instead of Maryland. I think Tech would be competitive in the SEC East or the BIG10 East.

But maybe the SEC or BIG wouldn't have even desired a Tech team from the dying Big East, or maybe they would have blanched at bringing in another competitive football team to their conferences. So I think it was a good decision to force our way into the ACC because it is a natural fit and the opportunity was actually there at the time. After joining the ACC, leaving for the SEC so quickly would have been a gold-digging move.

The ACC Network money will hopefully bring in enough revenue to close the gap, and Tech hopefully will not settle for sub-par apparel contracts and will increase donations, so that in ten to twenty years there won't be much of a difference between "what is" and "what might have been".

On the UW, A&M, and Oregon points, you could argue that with their new coaches, they're just getting back to the levels they should be at based on their financial support or revenue levels.

Would be interesting to see how long it takes for financial support to impact perception level. UW has recently received increase revenue from the PAC12 network. Oregon has already seen their perception rise with increased financial support. A&M is interesting; I'm not sure what changed; was it just the move to the SEC?

Twitter me

When do you defend your thesis?

I think I got bar1990 on my committee right now... I don't know, I may just take an extra year.

I think you mistakenly hit "Reply" instead of "Create Forum Topic" haha
In all seriousness, this is awesome work.

On a totally unrelated note, I've been wondering about some of Bud Foster's DC Career stats. They occasionally show up as graphics during games, and a bunch are called out in this article...

Under Foster's tutelage as defensive coordinator, the Hokies lead all FBS programs in sacks (856.0), sack yardage (-5,839), interceptions (380) and third-down percentage (31.5) dating back to 1996.

I noticed in a recent game (might've been Miami) a graphic showed that we were now tied in one of those categories (INTs I think), rather than leading outright. Do we know how much we lead these stats by? Which schools are close behind? and how far behind? The article mentions a few:

Tech, Ohio State and Florida State are the only three programs during that timeframe to own over 800.0 sacks and over 350 INTs.

I thought it would be nice to keep track of how much we lead these stats by and actively track this total vs anOSU, FSU, etc... I want to do some digging and organize the stats, but I'm having trouble finding a data source that works. Do you have any suggestions? I thought I'd ask an expert before beating my head against the wall. Especially if someone's already done this, or the data is easy to find and I'm just looking in the wrong place.

LOL yeah, I really went a little deep for a reply there.

I don't have Twitter, but OXVT frequently posts infographics; I believe he posts the stats you're talking about from time to time.

There's no good website that will go far back enough with all the data you need from what I could find.

I provided a list of references for my Bud Foster thing, and I used absolutely all of them.

It's clear that there are datasets people have created available for this, but I'm not well-connected enough to stats geeks to know who to ask, and I never felt lucky enough to play the Google lotto on that one.

My project only required certain seasons for a handful of schools; so I just dug those up by hand and put them in a spreadsheet.

so the opposite of Mack Brown's approach. Mack just took a 2 win team from a year ago into lane and we needed 6 OTs to beat him. Wait until those recruits are juniors. We need Jimmy's and Joe's on defense right now.

Actually, I was going to use UNC as a great example of a program that has put most of their eggs in the recruiting basket rather than the coaching basket. Take a step back and you'll see that historically, that approach has not worked out for them as a program.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

"Give me a fuΒ’king beer", Anonymous Genius

Totally. Obviously, you always have to recruit. The implication we are going to hire some coach and not focus on recruiting is ludicrous.

DC - how do you talk on this board about we can't make the young excuse, but then you gave it to UNC? Our D is very young as well, so I could just say look in the mirror at the Hokies squad and that's the same argument. Not sure how the UNC game is a negative either - we won and every game has opportunities to lose, but UNC found more of them than we did.

I took from UNC that our young talent that is so maligned took a step forward to figure out HOW TO WIN. Talent is talent, but winning is a skill. We will see if it sticks over time, but to say that UNC is young so watch out means the same should be said about us. Can't have it both ways.

UNC was a 2 win team and didn't have 40 % of the roster in the portal and they are basically equal to us now. Young is an excuse for some.

You have to admit they played like a old hokie defense in the 2nd half and all the overtimes in that unc game

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

Seemed pretty obvious that 2 win UNC team was essentially equal to us last year when it took a 4th quarter goal line fumble and 18 play, 98 yard TD drive for us to win.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Outside them having a good QB has Mack Brown really elevated UNC's product on the field? They are 4-4...and we beat them with our backup QB. Any decent team should of shut the game down as soon as the back up comes in.

We really need to slow the roll with claiming people are equal with us after a season or even less than that. Everyone after last year was ready to raise hell and said Dino Babers was such a better hire than Fuente and how he's rebuilt Syracuse... that didn't last long. UNC has done a very good job this year, has recruited well, and has a legit young talent at QB, however claiming the program is turned around when their sitting at 4-4 with UVA and Pitt left on the schedule is a bit of a stretch.

Gobble Till You Wobble

But won't our players be juniors at the same time since we played mostly freshman???

Huh? UNC had all of one true freshman starter to start the season- Sam Howell. No doubt he's been excellent, but it's incredibly wrong to suggest their improvement on the field is a result of their current true freshman class as a whole.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Lowest concern - can the new coaches recruit?

Short of butt ugly effort and personality (in which case a guy isn't going to coaching in college football), the most important thing with recruiting is the emblem on the jersey.

The same guy with the same effort with recruit well at, say, LSU and will recruit better than at VT > Syracuse > Marshall > UMass > Richmond.

Just look at the guys who were thought to be "bad" recruiters at VT by the peanut gallery and now are at "bigger" programs and recruiting like it.

The same guy with the same effort with recruit well at, say, LSU and will recruit better than at VT > Syracuse > Marshall > UMass > Richmond.

Always hated this take. Recruiting isn't easier at a bigger program. If anything, it's likely harder. Landing a 4 or 5* player might be easier than landing one at Tech, but considering you're going up against programs like Bama, Clemson, OSU, UGA, TX, A&M, etc. who all have seemingly endless recruiting resources, they need to work just as hard at differentiating themselves. The job itself is not somehow automatically easier. Coaches at those schools don't just coast. Saban and Kirby Smart are two of the hardest recruiting coaches there are. Same with Urban.

Just look at the guys who were thought to be "bad" recruiters at VT by the peanut gallery and now are at "bigger" programs and recruiting like it

Do you have examples?

Say what? Are you honestly saying it's harder to recruit at, say, Georgia than a Virginia Tech or Iowa?

I'll just do an easy one for you (you can research others). Holman Wiggins. 2019 at VT? 3 signees w/ an avg. rating of 89.39. 2018? 6 signees with an avg rating of 88.04. 2017? 4 guys w/ avg rating of 84.22. Respectable for VT, but nothing special. His last class at Memphis? 3 commits w/ avg rating of 80.57. Respectable for Memphis, but terrible for VT.

At Bama? So far in the 2020 class he's signed four guys with an avg rating of 92.91. That's just a hair below Bama's current team avg of 93.39 and is better than all but 5 programs in the country right right now. VT has signed a total of 4 guys with ratings that high in the last 4 classes combined. If VT as a whole - let alone a single recruiter - signed these 4 guys for ANY single VT recruiting class, VT fans would be going apeshit.

Do you think Saban looked at Holman's fairly average recruiting record at VT (or Memphis) and had any worry about him being able to recruit to Bama standards? I don't and I doubt Saban did either. He knows that script crimson A on the polo shirt means a ton - even against other blue bloods and especially compared to 2nd tier programs like VT (which is the point).

I won't do the work for you but you can try Torrian Grey at Florida (who the recruiting ostriches still criticize), Danny Pearman at Clemson, Jeff Grimes, Stacey Searels, etc. It'll be similar.

Saban's recruiting at LSU & Bama > Mich St > Toledo. Meyer's recruiting at UF & OSU > Utah > Bowling Green. Did they just suddenly got better and work harder at the blue-bloods?

One can hate this take all one wants but that's just rationalizing and wishful thinking. It's the way of the college football world.

His point is that no matter the star rating, recruiting a kid to come to your school rather than one of your rivals doesn't get easier the higher you go up the ladder.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think we are already competing against those same rivals in recruiting. The guys expected to be landed by VT with this expected surge in great recruiting are going to those schools. It is absolutely easier to recruit to a blue blood school. However, the expectations are much higher as well.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

I think marcb was making the argument that Holman Wiggins is recruiting higher rated players at Alabama than he was at VT thus recruiting is easier at blue bloods and this was not the point of the post he replied to.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

Read through it again and you're right. However, I still find it funny that when Wiggins goes from VT to Bama and instantly is pulling in better recruits, the reply is "its Bama, of course he is". But, when we discuss hiring coaches, "Hire a Bama guy that knows how to recruit".

To summarize my thoughts on the matter, it is easier to get better talent to a blueblood than other P5 schools. But, recruiting is never "easy". If a coach is assumed to give 100% effort regardless of school, the same coach will pull in better talent at a school like Bama. So we are all right.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

But, when we discuss hiring coaches, "Hire a Bama guy that knows how to recruit".

Not me, unless the Bama guy is Saban. Find me a guy who can convince the recruits we value the most to choose VT over whoever else is in their top 5.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

Which I don't agree with.

You have to compare apples to apples with the targets. Bama will ALWAYS get higher rated recruits. However, Wiggins is still recruiting below the average of the rest of the staff, and not even in the top 126 coaches in the SEC last year (which is as far down as 247 goes) - so you can't look at the bottom line player average and say 'he's recruiting better. it is easier.'

If Glenn Schumann was the #2 overall recruiter in the SEC last year - it tells me he's a good recruiter, given his peers and direct competition, and he'd probably be a good recruiter in a different situation at VT. It would be insane to compare his player results to VTs (or Marshall's) to validate that point.

Yeah, some people are better salespeople than others, and we need some decent salespeople.

All it means at VT are people who can talk intelligently about the program, highlight what it has to offer, and can relate to recruits.

Some people can do that better than others.

Maybe I'm not being clear. I think if looking at results only, it makes it seem 'easier,' as the player pool you're recruiting from is inherently better at Bama than they are at VT than they are at Memphis. The competition for those players is more fierce at Bama, however, and the enterprise that is Bama recruiting is more complex. Even in your example of Wiggins, he's still functioning below the average of his peers on the Bama staff and signing lower level players than the rest of the staff. I don't think the 92 player average somehow means he's a much better recruiter. He's just working with a different pool of guys - it doesn't mean 'it's easier.'

As far as the coaches you site, there are some, even at the lower levels, that value recruiting more and work the trail harder. We need one of those guys. Kirby Smart works the trail hard, but so does PJ Fleck. It would be idiotic to think that PJ Fleck is going to land higher average recruits than Kirby Smart. I don't think Smart's job, top to bottom, is 'easier' though, the end result is just different given the two schools.

If you're not being clear, its because you're argument makes no sense. It's ultra competitive at every level.

Pretty much anybody who puts in the work can fish in VT's pond with a VT on their polo and pretty much anybody who puts in the work can fish in Bama's pond with the A on their polo. The bigger point is pretty much nobody is going to be able to fish in Bama's pond with a VT on their polo.

Wiggins went from being a avg recruiter in Memphis' pond to a avg recruiter in VT's pond to an avg recruiter in Bama's pond. Same guy, but just by changing polo's he magically went from recruiting guys with 80 ratings to 87 ratings to 93 ratings. Sure some guys are better recruiters than others, but the difference between a "mediocre" recruiter at VT bringing in 86's & 87s and a "great" recruiter bringing in 88s is pretty insignificant in the scheme of things. A GREAT recruiter in VT's pond is almost certainly going to still sign lesser recruits than a mediocre recruiter at Ohio State.

So again, recruiting ability is not a particularly important attribute in a coach. By and large, program cache recruits players, not coaches. Talent recognition, player development, game preparation/scheming, and game coaching ability are all far more important attributes.

Would I like VT to get a coach that checks all of those boxes and is a top-notch recruiter relative to his niche? Sure. But those guys are pretty rare. If I want a program to be a big fish in its pond and occasionally fish in a bigger pond, recruiting prowess isn't meaningless but its at the bottom of my hiring checklist not the top.

Your point is exactly right, I think the debate is on the conclusion you drew. Recruiting prowess is so highly desired by many in the next DC/position coach/whatever precisely because it is the only hope from moving from our current pond to the elite pond. People don't want to be a big fish in a small pond, they want us to compete with the elite, which takes elite talent, which takes an elite recruiter that can pull kids from the elite pond. Whether that's realistic or not is another issue. Right now we're not even a big fish, we're a medium fish in a medium pond.

Coach recruiting prowess is not the only hope for moving to the next pond. In fact it has virtually no impact on moving up in the current pond let alone moving up to the next pond. Not only does recruiting ability of a coach make little difference in the small picture, it makes little difference in the big picture as well.

The funny thing is most fans want to believe coaches and W-L record are the answer to recruiting, but the biggest factor by far in recruiting is the one thing a fanbase can actually affect...money. If VT had a $150 million athletic budget right now instead of $100 million, the conversation about VT's place in the recruiting ladder would be entirely different. Period.

Spot on.

There isn't really much evidence to support it, it's really just my opinion, but I think Hype has a lot to do with the ability to land recruits.

I think that's why FSU still recruits at the rate it does, and also why I think Brenden Hill's response to recruiting is hiring a team of brand managers. This of course as you said requires money.

FSU also has the advantage of being located in a recruiting hotbed - which is arguably the second biggest factor in recruiting after financial resources.

So again, recruiting ability is not a particularly important attribute in a coach.

Being polite but this statement is about as far from the truth as possible. If you can't show me you can recruit you're useless to me. Now teams and programs have different recruiting ponds but you better land fish from that pond and snag 1/2 every few years from the other pond.

If I want a program to be a big fish in its pond and occasionally fish in a bigger pond, recruiting prowess isn't meaningless but its at the bottom of my hiring checklist not the top.

In your scenario VT will never fish in the bigger pond because to do so you have to have guys who can sell the program from top to bottom. Recruiting prowess is the only way VT is going to punch above its level and land some of these game changing kids. Gimme 2 guys on the staff who can sell the heck out of the program & how said recruit fits that vision over an x/o's TE coach or LB coach.

If I had to rank importance using your quote below it would go

So again, recruiting ability is not a particularly important attribute in a coach. By and large, program cache recruits players, not coaches. Talent recognition, player development, game preparation/scheming, and game coaching ability are all far more important attributes.

Talent Recognition, Recruiting, Player Development, Coaching, Game Prep. If I can't land/recruit a kid I'm never going to get to the next 3 steps.

Talent Recognition, Recruiting, Player Development, Coaching, Game Prep. If I can't land/recruit a kid I'm never going to get to the next 3 steps.

I think this is the priority ranking of skills for a position coach. I think playcalling (coaching as you call it) and game prep are much more important for a coordinator.

Stiney is a perfect example - he was a good recruiter, but his skills in playcalling and game management left a lot to be desired.

Recruiting ability may be a little more important for a position coach, but it's still at or near the bottom of the list. It just doesn't change things that much unless you're consistently a GREAT recruiter.

This is nonsense and misses the point. Just because recruiting experience and some minimal-level of past recruiting performance is a pre-requisite for the job, it doesn't make it a critical and/or primary qualification.

The assumption is that anybody under consideration for a DC job at a P5 school has demonstrated some base level of recruiting acumen and competence. But it is of minimal importance whether they are just a mediocre recruiter or a really good recruiter because that bell curve is pretty narrow.

What is far more important is that coaches be really good at coaching and fund-raisers be really good at fund-raising.

Checked with the wife, she still doesn't want me to take it so, I'll have to decline, if asked.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Dang. Looks like we got big-dogged again.

We're clearly not going to hire a premier DC, so the fact that

Bud makes $1M
Cornelsen makes $500k
Shibest makes $450k (yes, I think he should be replaced)

Leaves essentially $2M for coordinators and a ST coach, which seems pretty reasonable to me. $800k +/- for the coordinators and $400k +/- for a ST coach would provide options.

We pay Shibest more than the Clemson DL coach makes. Let that sink in about how we are managing our "limited funds"

Yep.. been saying it for a while. Shibest is an average coach and recruiter, and we are paying him as if he's elite.

What may justify his pay is something that no one has mentioned so far about Shibest is that he is also our TE coach. I am not saying that him coaching TEs on top of being Special Teams Cord. is different, a lot of ST Cord do that as well, but Shibest seems to be a pretty damn good coach at teaching TEs. Dalton and Mitchell can block/run/catch and if both continue their production post QB change, they both should make an All-ACC team. Throw them in with Bradburn who may get All American love and yeah, I can begin to explain Shibest's salary.

Shibest is an average coach

I don't know how the stats on this year are looking, but Shibest was a damn good ST coach when compared to the rest of the country when he was at Memphis and his first few years here.

mmm not really

Year Special Teams SP+ ranking
2016 49
2017 31
2018 57

Twitter me

If only we could find someone to kick a 45 yard field goal

Good for Memphis. Our rankings have been mediocre like Bar posted for his time at VT.

lol at someone downvoting you, upvoting to offset.

What he did at Memphis clearly hasn't converted to big boy football, he's overpaid.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

It's called growing pains, as indicative in the path that Tech has taken this year. We're still a young football team, but FEI has us at 46 so far.

You're providing incomplete and inconclusive evidence. Let me educate you:

Shibest was at Ole Miss from 2008 to 2011. Rankings:

2008: 17
2009: 50
2010: 70
2011: 7

With Fuente at Memphis from 2012 to 2015:

2012: 70
2013: 14
2014: 2
2015: 14

With Fuente at Tech from 2016 Onwards:

2016: 39
2017: 10
2018: 35

Of those 11 years, 3 in the top 10, 5 in the top 15, and 9 in the top 50, and 11 in the top 70 - though to be fair, those 70 years were transition times with one of them being his first year at Memphis.

Now, I'd be very impressed if you can find another ST coach who can say that essentially half his time as being an ST coach that his team has been in the TOP 15 in the nation at ST, and especially when several of those years were at a non-power house like Memphis. To me that is a really damn-good ST coach.

Edit: Info from https://www.footballoutsiders.com

With Fuente at Tech from 2016 Onwards:

2016: 39
2017: 10
2018: 35

I think you're looking at the wrong column on football outsiders for special teams ranking. Can you go back and confirm that you're not looking at the SOS rank?

Anyways, leg for the research. Perhaps this weekend I can research other special teams coordinators to see if this amount of variability is common.

Twitter me

I was looking at the left-most column when one filters for the data. I don't think that's SOS ranking but overall ranking, but someone else can correct me if I'm wrong. If I am then I'll update my post.

There are 3 "reliable" models for special teams rankings. The methods are all different, and frankly none of them are "wrong", it's just a weird thing to measure, so taking an average of all 3 is probably not a bad call for definitive unit rankings.

On cfb outsiders, you can pull up both an S&P and FEI ranking. You were looking at S&P; AX was citing the SFEI (which actually has its own menu option- Special Teams Rankings, FEI).

ESPN has team efficiencies, too.

The SRS is a fairly simple rating system that's surprisingly accurate as well. It doesn't have a measurement for special teams, but it's the only reliable metric you're going to find pre-2003.

shane beamer *ducks*

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I get what you're saying, but it's not that black/white. There are three ways you reward people: compensation (pay, benefits, etc), mentorship, and career opportunity.

  • Being able to learn from Venables is a huge mentorship opportunity.
  • Todd Bates had 3 years' experience, none at the P5 level before coming to Clemson. This was a huge career opportunity for him.
  • In 2017, the Jacksonville State HC made $300k. After 5 min of googling, I was unable to find Todd Bates' salary, but I think it's fair to assume it was $120k MAX, and likely closer to $60-$90k.

All this is to say, Clemson's offer to Bates was about a lot more than just money, which is probably why Bates is underpaid. Additionally, Clemson does a really, really good job of mentoring their position coaches. They were able to get these guys for cheap, help them grow into their positions, and then retain them at a reasonable costs. Not many other coaches have been able to do this.

EDIT: everything I said is not mutually exclusive with Shibest being overpaid.
EDIT #2: Formatting

Twitter me

I'm with you on Clemson's value proposition and I am very familiar with how they have built and retained their staff so well.

However, like you said, that situation doesn't mean that Shibest still isn't overpaid.

Shibest is:

1) one of the highest paid ST coordinators for... reasons?

2) the highest paid non-coordinator on our staff, and we cut current coaches salaries we retained so a new coach's friend could get a big pay bump for a position that isn't producing value relative to his salary.

3) from a value standpoint, not worth what he is producing. Bates is producing incredible results for his pay level. His pay is less than his value to Clemson. Shibest's is the opposite.

Shibest is:

1) one of the highest paid ST coordinators for... reasons?

2) the highest paid non-coordinator on our staff,

wait, is he a coordinator, or is he a non-coordinator?

Two points I'll make here
1) the Special Teams Coordinator role is worthy of a bump in salary over just being a position coach.
2) we are cheaping out on Offensive Coordinator at 500k

If good/great OC's and DC's are commanding $750,000+ then I have no issue paying a good ST Coordinator $450k

When I say non-coordinator I am referring to OC/DC positions as a higher tier than Special Teams Coordinator, but for the sake of the title having coordinator in the name that's fine.

However, Shibest is the 7th highest paid ST coordinator in the country. If we have such limited funds, why do we need to be on the highest end of paying our ST Coordinator? Wouldn't it be better for a team with limited funds to maybe pay a more middle of the road ST coordinator salary in order to attract better position coaches/OC/DC's? I certainly think so. It seems silly to have one of the highest paid ST coordinators in the country on a budget that I am constantly reminded is very limited compared to the big boys. An example, we are paying Shibest more than Oklahoma or Alabama are paying their ST coordinators...

Jeff Banks at Bama is still being paid Texas A&M money isn't he?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I know Banks and A&M had a legal dispute over his contract, but I don't know the answer to this. Regardless, we are still paying our ST Coordinator more than all but 6 programs in the country.

Haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if someone already said this, but VT is a school where coaches go to make a name for themselves, not a school for coaches who are already big names.

Hopefully we get someone relatively low profile, brilliant, and with something to prove.

Hard, smart, tough.

Ia there anyone from the Kill coaching tree that would be a candidate?

Tracey:

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

eh, my comment was in poor taste.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Tracy Claeys

Edit: Now I feel like I missed a good joke lol

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

It was a Fight Club reference.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Robert Paulson, of course! Definitely poor taste...but it got me to chuckle

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

That was my immediate thought as well, but then again I have never been accused of having anything but poor taste.

I'm trying to figure out who downvoted me for this picture, when that is actually one of the options in Kill's coaching tree, smh...

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Or it could just be a fat finger, not worth worrying about?

Twitter me

Nah, intentional down vote, fuck that guy.

S/!

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Worrying? LOL, not that butt-hurt over it, just wondering why someone else potentially was butt-hurt. Legs don't define me, I assure you LOL.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

"Screw your legs" ~ 2_Hokie_5, maybe

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I'd assume either Torrian, Wiles, Hamilton, or someone with ties to Va Tech and is familiar with Fosters schemes to get the job. Not a k-mart brand coordinator...

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

All signs point to TGray at this point.

Outside shot at Midget or Sorensen.
Potentially Wiles/Hamilton Co-DC.

Torrian or Schumann. Let's win the offseason!

These would be hires I'm excited about for sure

Please let it be Torrian!

Would love to steal something from the Gators for a change.

Was the last big thing we stole Tyrod?

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Yeah, because Gaines' offer from Florida was not actually from Florida.

Click here to destroy wall.

I'm just hopeful we stop living for the good ole days and living in the past. Hire a solid coordinator who has lots of energy to recruit, wants to run a similar
Or same scheme to not have to start over with personnel and can keep us current vs striving for yesteryear.

Hire a solid coordinator who has lots of energy to recruit, wants to run a similar
Or same scheme to not have to start over with personnel

For the record, this person probably doesn't exist unless you believe Torrian Gray or even Justin Hamilton fit that criteria.. French has been over the people who run a scheme similar to Bud's and the list was people who have played for and coached under Bud.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Lots of people run gap fitting schemes from 4-3. We do some unique things with the DL cross keys, but there are a lot of DC's out there who play their safeties in the alleys and fit gaps. There are many candidates that wouldn't require a complete schematic overhaul.

Exactly. Hence the word similar. It doesn't have to be exactly the same, but if we overhaul the scheme we might have to overhaul personnel and the timing isn't right for that (captain obvious)

There are lots of options here

I'll be surprised if we get someone everyone is blown away by. Fuente's ultimate success will hinge on this, and he knows it. They're not going to phone in the hire, but its going to be a gamble in the eyes of the fanbase. I think there's some truth in what others have said above, which is that well known and sought after commodities are going to be a little shy on us right now because of the perceived state of the program. It makes it tough, but it doesn't make a good hire impossible. Like everything else, we're going to have to wait and see a little bit before passing too much judgement.

I would be super surprised if we got a coach everyone on here is blown away by because no matter who we hire some one will complain. We could purge the entire defensive staff and bring in Saban, Beliceck, Venables, Patterson, and Smart and people would complain.

I dunno about Bill Belichick, he doesn't show enough emotion....

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

My thing with the perceived state of the program is, that from the inside, it may look very different. So if someone is really considering coming to town, they may be getting an inside look that may make them feel better about the whole situation.

It seems like the players are very much behind Fu and drinking the Kool-Aid. So while the fans and other outsiders may think something is amiss, there may really not be anything.

If the hire is already set in stone then it surely is either a coach on staff or a former coach from the staff......it could possibly be a coach out of work at the moment, but what coach can you think of that is out of work that a) would be a good hire, b) if it's a good hire we aren't blasting it to the world for recruits to know?

So it's either a current or former staff member in my eyes. This would make total sense as well if Fuente thinks he's on the hot seat. You would want someone to come in and use the personnel you have at hand instead of totally switching up schemes knowing you will be bad on defense. You don't have 3 years to get a new defensive scheme up and running to save your job. You have to be relevant and competent now.

With that said, if I was a betting man, I would say the likeliest contenders are gray, jham, jc price......if rumors are true.

And as was mentioned earlier in the thread, if it is someone on the current staff, there is no reason not to announce it now, so potential recruits would know.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

The two most prevalent rumors right now are:

1) there is an agreement in principle; and

2) there is no agreement in principle.

I don't think we'll hear anything about a defensive coordinator until Whit confirms who the head coach is for next year, which may depend on how the team plays in November.

Pretty sure we wouldn't have a new coordinator in principle if we didn't know Fuente would be the coach next year. So, if your conclusion is correct then number 2 would be correct.
But, I don't think Fu's seat is nearly as hot as some seem to think. My bet is it's barely even lukewarm.

Barring a couple repeats of the Duke game, I don't think he'll be fired. I do think we'll have 2-4 additional changes on staff.

Fuente will be our head coach next year, unless we lose the rest of the games, he gets caught in a cocaine trafficking scheme, then punches Whit in the nose.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

UNC and Miami saved him for 2020, yes. If we lose 4 of the last 5 and miss a bowl, he will be forced to make major changes on his staff. His 100th ranked recruiting class coming in keeps the seat hot until he is wins 9-10 games and doesn't lose to a liberty, etc. That's the way it is in modern college football. There won't be any Beamer kids left after this season. It's on him now.

A lot of that recruiting ranking is due to the small size of the class. It would be more like 50th based on average recruit ranking. That's still not good enough but it's not nearly as abysmal as some are making it out to be. Unless some big money folks start pushing for Fu's ouster (with the cash to do it), Fu ain't going anywhere soon unless it's his decision.

I've heard that there are already some coordinator changes coming, outside of the DC position.

I've seen some mention that Fu has recently been much more involved in the offense, so my assumption at the time was that there may be some changes to Corny. Guess we'll see how that plays out though.

Least he would be showing emotions right /s

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

We are a tech school after all. I'd say having a Schrodinger's D.C. is pretty inovative stuff.

Not super confident in this one but there's tooo much chatter going on. Fire follows smoke and damn it's smokey.

VT has announced the trade of .... to ODU for the rights to ......

i hope its cash consideration and future draft pics. unless we can go back and get Oshane Ximines then it seems this is at best a wash. we were able to dump bryan stinespring, (horrible OC) EK, (supposed locker room problems) and chris Cunningham (not athletic enough TE for our system) for......... NOTHING. the steelers tried this route and while it didn't work out good for the players they dumped so much it didn't really work out that well for them either.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

before anyone says galen scott, he's no longer on staff at ODU, but rather north texas

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Well, ODU's current DC did spend time at Illinois State, so...

plz no

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

They are also 1-7 this year with the latest loss 41-3 to FAU. No thanks.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

He also coached linebackers and was recruiting coordinator for Clemson for a bit. Although it was pre-Dabo.

This is the perfect gif for so many situations.