Complaints and questions about the 2020 recruiting class.

Instead of the same complaints and questions and arguments taking over another recruiting thread just use this thread to talk about it.

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Is there a way to make an entire topic not show up in my active discussions window?

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Vroom Vroom

can you just rename this January Part III? The other topic has 400+ comments and probably close to 100 embeds that really wonk up the load time

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I think everybody should follow your lead and complain about the newly minted Complaint Thread in the newly minted Complaint Thread.

Leonard. Duh.

i can't believe you're derailing another newly minted complaint thread with your complaints about my complaints in the newly minted complaint thread, Leonard

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I dunno, that's pretty Leonard.

But I ONLY want to complain about how much the 2020 class sucks in the many and various forms of suckdom. /s

I'm just gonna complain about Fuente until either he wins the coastal or he's gone. Sorry, not sorry.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

But he did win the Coastal already...

Get Angry, Bud!

Thats inaccurate, every other team lost the coastal - we were just the next ones up,

The truth is clear that while hes been head coach:

No running back that has gone for a loss has gained yards. Point
No receiver has caught passes that were drops. Point
The 4* recruits he landed werent 4 stars only the ones hes missed. Point
None of his Quarterbacks have completed a pass on incomplete passes. Point
and hes 0 for 20 in ever game that hes lost..

what are yall missing - all of the data points are right there...

Ignore the fact that Virginia Tech has the second highest winning percentage in the ACC since he took over.

14-12 in his last 26 games. Crown Him.

Still better than anybody on here.

I'm not a CJF hater (I'd give him a B- thus far for his tenure, which isn't bad), but this line of reasoning is always wrong.

Don't like some K-pop boy band's music? Where's your platinum single?

Don't like Michael Bay movies? Better than anybody on here has done!

Think Larry Fedora was garbage? His P5 win % is higher than yours!

etc.

The idea that you can't complain about something just because you can't do it yourself bugs me.

Great point.

But at some point the same repetitive negative talking points that pop up in every discussion get old and become non-constructive (same as some of the repetitive, same-old positive talking points).

Then call it repetitive--counter the bad idea/argument, rather than ad hominem that such-and-such wasn't a football coach.

And factor in that 4 of those wins over the last two years were W&M, Furman, ODU, Rhode Island. And one of those losses was inarguably top 3 worst in program history and another the worst home loss since the 70s. Not a great trajectory the last two years.

Yeah, but he has been here for 4 years. Mack Brown got credit for his great first year, why doesn't Fuente?

Get Angry, Bud!

Frank Beamer

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Can you explain? Is it because they were Frank Beamers players? Then Mack was using Larry Fadoras. But Mack brought in the QB you say. CJF brought in Evans. I don't understand.

I think you hit on it. He had Frank's recruits as a core to build on, and, let's be real, we (fans) expect this outcome. We (fans) subconsciously, that year, placed a portion of the success on Beamer rather than all on Fuente.
While, over in Durham, Mack was the returning hero and Fedora wrote his own epitaph on the way out with a losing record and social media meltdowns.
Fan mob perception becomes reality.

Edit, removed word, not what I intended.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Yeah, except if you are telling me you expected to win 10 games in Fuente's first season, you have to go check your shit-meter because you're full.

Anybody on here who thinks with the 4 years we had before Fuente got here and the players we had would win 10 games is flat out delusional. I was excited with Fuente as a hire but I sure as hell didn't think we'd win 10 and go to the ACCCG game our first season. Almost exclusively, new coaches in their first year at a new program have a worse record than they'd previously had and the school previously had, which means that, given the 7-6 performances in 2014 and 2015, we probably should have expected 4 wins or so.

Ehhhh

IDK man. Our case was a bit odd because we kept Bud Foster and at the time he had a very talented defense. And lots of people would argue that the previous offensive coaches could have been out coached by chickens. The ACC isn't a very difficult conference to win in so its not a huge stretch to assume that new offensive coaches paired with Bud Foster and a very talented defense could do pretty well in a weak league right away. Sure 10 wins might have sounded like a pipe dream before 2016 but 8 or 9 wins could have been a reasonable expectation considering that effectively we were "upgrading" our offensive coaches and everything else stayed the same.

I don't know where it all went sideways. Or why. But it's evident now that there's something very wrong in Blacksburg at the moment. We're not progressing, recruiting is all over the place, attrition is hitting us particularly hard every year and all we hear from the coaches are excuses. At some point they have to start winning consistently against teams they should beat. People will argue over whether that's 2019, 2020 or 2025. But the longer we go without showing signs of progress the less confident I am they'll get there. It's why everyone keeps saying 2020 is an extremely important year for Fuente. Our schedule is, once again, very friendly and there are easily 11 winnable games. I think Fuente needs to win 9 or 10 and at least one post season game in order to prove he's the right guy for the job. We'll see.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

The 2015 record is misleading. We lost our first game to OSU when brewer got hurt, with motley at qb we lost by 4 to Pitt, 7 to ECU, and 10 to Miami, then lost 2 games in overtime. We go 10-2 with brewer the full season and 9-3 at worst.

If you claim wins like that, then we beat ND this year if HH wasn't injured and we're really 9-4 instead of 8-5. Also, I keep seeing people say HH was injured to start the year, so maybe we win BC too. So now all of a sudden we are 10-3 and this year wasn't so bad.

No I'm just pointing out that we had a good team in 2015 that was better than the record suggested. In 2016 we returned almost all of that talent and upgraded at qb so the notion that we should have expected to win 4 games in 2016 is not true.

We also needed GT to take a horrendous penalty when about to kick a game winner and UVA drop a sure TD and try a fake punt on 4th-15 to win those games. Both with Brewer so let's not pretend we were world beaters with him back. The team clearly took a huge step forward under Fuente in 2016

if you are telling me you expected to win 10 games in Fuente's first season, you have to go check your shit-meter because you're full

My response was based on what had already happened and how we as fans reacted (responding to someone else about why fans acted en masse), and had nothing to do with predictions.

BTW... My shit meter is fine.
Please check your response nastiness meter.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Sorry - I was joking, the light-hearted "you're full a'shit" type thing. I gotta remember stuff like that doesn't come across well in text, especially to people who don't really know me.

Despite the argument from HokieCFA, I certainly didn't feel like the 2015 was a team that was really capable of a 10 win season, even with Brewer healthy all season (note the other close wins and fails on other teams' parts that helped our win numbers). So we as fans seem to discount that first year because subsequent years weren't as good as we would expect from the first season and instead attribute the number of wins to something other than Fuente and Cornelson being able to coach (Foster being the constant). We put up a LOT of points against teams that first year. Is it frustrating that performance dipped? Yes, absolutely. Do I think we should discount 2016 - no. I think Fuente has been rebuilding and putting foundational things in place, it's just taking longer than some people would like and not resulting in the wins people (me included) would like. But when I look at the data points across the board vs losses (even though some of them have been absolute head scratchers), I feel good about the future. I know not everybody agrees with me, and focus REALLY HARD on the bad losses, and put very little focus on the positives. One way or another, only next year's on-field performance will tell what we're capable of, and not that I think it's a put-up or shut up year, I am thinking we should have a really strong year. If we have another 6 or 7 win season next year, I'll probably slide a lot more into the "Fuente doesn't have what it takes camp," just really not expecting that outcome.

Fuente did get a ton of credit in 2016, especially after we nearly beat Clemson in the ACCCG. I don't think momentum has ever been as high in his tenure since then. I think it's becoming apparent that as Beamer's players have graduated and he has replenished the roster with his guys running his system, the results just aren't there. We have some high caliber talent in places, but recruiting hasn't been balanced enough (seeing that on defense now) and we have had so much attrition that it's hard to build quality depth. Looking over the past four years, the trajectory seems even more alarming.

Yes exactly. Fuente looked great in 2016. The further he gets away from then the less it looks like he'll return to that level

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Too soon.

The thing I believe you're overlooking is that the cupboard was pretty much bare by 2017. Fuente's recruits were all freshmen (or not recruited yet).

Come back in two years, after we've had time for Fuente's recruits to mature into actual college football players as a group, and let's have the conversation. You're just here too soon.

That's ancient history in college football years...

Hokie Club member since 2017

With how bad the coastal is these days VT should be winning it 4/5 years. And I want to see Fuente do it with a team he recruited. I hope he does in 2020. But I'm a fanatic, after all, and I want to see this team play well every week and win the games they should. I haven't seen that in 3 years. Have you?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I want to see this team play well every week and win the games they should. I haven't seen that in 3 years. Have you?

Interesting fact: no VT fan has seen that since 1999.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I assume that some people on here either weren't fans in the early 2000's or have blocked that time period from their memories. Those were some of our most talented teams ever and we were still struggling with teams like Pitt, WVU, Syracuse, BC, and NC State.

Gobble Till You Wobble

The 2001-2003 teams were frustrating as hell. They would murder everyone in the first 5 or 6 games, then only win two more after that.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

The 2002, 2003, and 2006 teams. If you just look at those rosters and then the teams we lost to. It's upsetting.

Gobble Till You Wobble

2002 and 2003 losing twice each to WVU and Pitt was just bad. Throw in that awful OT game against Syracuse and the head scratcher against BC and.... yeah

2006 might have been worse. We probably should have gone undefeated that year, but went unplugged controller against GT, BC, and in the second half against UGa.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Having Marcus Vick would have made a huge difference in 2006. Glennon didn't do a bad job; the coaches just didn't trust him enough to open up the playbook, plus he was seemingly always under pressure. Having a mobile quarterback to roll out and escape that would have been a game changer. They had to run Ore into the ground. He didn't play in the final three games of 2006, was ineffective for a lot of 2007, and finished his career at a D2 school.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Poor offensive line performances was a staple of VT football from basically the second Jake Grove moved on to... Well pretty much now.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

It always amazed me how those offensive lines could run block well enough to give us an all-conference running back nearly every year but couldn't pass block whatsoever. Unless the line was littered with upperclassmen, the quarterback was going to running for their life on most pass plays.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

And I think we're finally starting to see improvement on the O-line.

Yeah not having Marcus Vick for 2006 when we should have was a huge miss. Waste of another championship caliber defense.

In the Current VT in the ACC era my definition of winning the games they should is beating unranked ACC teams which we did in:
2011
2010
2007
2005

Hokie Club member since 2017

Another fun fact:

Teams from the supposed "worst division in P5" have beaten the eventual national champion twice in recent years:

2014 Virginia Tech beat Ohio State (at Columbus)
2016 Pittsburgh beat Clemson (at Clemson)

Have any other national champions lost to teams outside their own divisions in the last ten years? Sources say no.

That's over a whole football player's college career ago.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Yes, ancient history, had that on my bingo board.

UNC missed a final play two point conversion last season that should have beaten Clemson.

Coastal stinks so bad they keep upsetting (and nearly upsetting) the top teams

If we start arguing almost's then the conversation rapidly gets out of hand. I simply don't think the metric you're using proves a whole lot in favor of the Coastal's prowess in the face of plenty of evidence showing how bad it is as a whole.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

I mostly agree with you about arguing "almosts," but I will say that some of us fans live on almosts - almost beat Miami in 2000 (or 2001, whenever), almost beat Boise, almost beat ND, almost beat FSU in 99 (kind of almost). Nearly winning matters to me because there is a big difference to me between losing in the last minutes and losing by a larger margin where VT wasn't even in the game in the fourth quarter.

I use the metrics that are available. If people are going to keep repeating a worthless statement like "worst division in the P5," I'm going to challenge it if I feel like it. When the Coastal has the only teams that are beating national champions and contenders in the entire P5, not once, but twice, and yes, almost a third time, that matters as much to me as other metrics that you might think matter. But none of these metrics really matter. We all know that. Every debate about any kind of sports statistic is really nonsense, but here we are.

So. You're telling me you think the Coastal is the best division in the P5 since it's the only one that's beaten national champions?

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

That's not even remotely what he said - he's saying we're just not as shitty as a lot of people say we are.

So like only 9.1 Courics instead of 12.4?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Aren't they Santorums?

I've been very clear that I'm simply saying that the Coastal is not the worst division in the P5 and I'm providing an example of why it isn't. The reason I'm saying this is because posters keep repeating the same tired line that they read on here once, and are using it as one of their banners for their "Hokies hating Hokies" movement.

Oh look, I can make hyperbolic assertions, too.

The ACC is hot garbage smelling up the landscape without Clemson. Sorry, but not good.

Yup, just like every other conference without their top teams.

What people ignore is that this stuff is mostly cyclical. I think it was 2014-2017 the ACC finished 2nd in SP+ conference rankings by a mile and one year had like 10 of the top 40 or something. Conference has been down the last few years for sure as FSU has been down, we've sort of been in limbo, Miami has lost every close game, and UNC couldn't find someone with a pulse to play QB. Not to mention GT has been iffy and now is transitioning. I'd say those 5 and Clemson + Louisville are the schools capable of being consistent top 20-30 teams and all of them look to be stepping it up a bit. It will be interesting to revisit this discussion next offseason after a year in which us, UNC, and Miami will probably play close to a top 25 or better level.

Would you rather claim the 2014 Hokies' record or the 2014 buckeyes' schedule. 2016 Pitt vs Clemson? I'd rather have a single bad loss than several losses to bad teams. But that's just me

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I'd rather have a single bad loss than several losses to bad teams.

That's not the issue.

You brought out the tired trope that "the coastal is the worst division in the P5" and I'm pointing out that these lousy Coastal teams keep upsetting the top teams, specifically two recent national champions, and another near miss last year (UNC vs Clemson). The only other champions that lost were to teams in their division (mostly SEC), within their own conferences (mostly SEC), or defeats to other top teams (1996 FSU beats Florida, 1993 ND beats FSU), and it doesn't happen every year.

The logical next step in thought is that the Coastal is tough because any team can upset any other team any week of the season. That is not weak, that is tough.

I refute your assertion most emphatically, sir.

Retire this trope.

The ACC routinely produces (with the obvious exception of Clemson) teams with 4 or more losses who go and lose bowl games vs teams from other leagues. Sure, the ACC has produced some scrappy teams that can upset other teams on occasion but by and large the ACC performs rather poorly when matched up against teams from other leagues. I'd much rather win a national championship with a single loss to anyone than lose 4+ games but pound my chest because some other mediocre 4+ loss team from my league almost beat the eventual national champion. It's not a trope. It's an objectively true fact that the ACC is full of mediocre to bad football teams. A huge majority of the teams in the ACC would finish in the bottom half of just about every other league. Yes, that's a speculative statement, but the ACC record vs all the other leagues clearly indicates that other leagues are playing at a higher level.

You can try to mental gymnastics your way into believing that the ACC is the toughest league because a few teams had singular spectacular games a few times in the last decade but the reality is that more often than not the ACC teams will lose to teams from other leagues. It's laughable to suggest the ACC is so tough. Even people with ACC blinders on aren't that delusional.

In the last 3 years alone the ACC is 17-31 OOC

The only other P5 league with a losing OOC record over the last 3 years is the big 12 at 23-24

The other leagues are either even or above .500

The ACC is seriously the worst league. There's really no argument

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Not beating my chest about the ACC being the best conference. Your assertion, not mine. There is mediocrity and bad teams in every conference. I could speculate that if the top teams had to play in the Coastal they would have a harder time than they do now. We'll never know. (I do, however, know that Boise St & UCF would also be 4+ loss teams if they played in the P5, but that's another discussion.)

Is this going to be the new trope you guys use? That VT fans prefer being 4+ loss teams instead of winning the NC?

Now you've changed the conversation from your tired trope "the Coastal is the worst division in the P5" to "the ACC is full of mediocre to bad football teams". I'll take that as a win.

OOC record is just as meaningless to me as my statement about Coastal teams beating the NCs is to you.

I'm not crying into my beer because GT loses to Georgia every year, and Florida beats FSU and Miami. Or even that VT lost to Kentucky. You line up to play the games, you win or lose, and you move forward. Dwelling on it doesn't help. Bringing it up all the time doesn't help.

Self pity and self hate towards the Hokies and the ACC just rubs salt in the so-called wounds and is boring.

But you guys get some sort of enjoyment out of it, just Hokies Hating Hokies.

Lol, whatever. You can call it hating Hokies if you want. That's not it. I'm pointing out that the ACC is in fact a very winnable league and as a Hokies fan it disappoints me that the Hokies can't seem to win the division. That's frustrating because VT has more of a football pedigree than the other teams in the division. Our fans have, rightly so IMO, higher expectations. Therefore, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect VT to win the coastal more often than not. And, as a fan, I'm frustrated that the current coaches can't do it. The ACC Coastal is easy to win. VT deserves coaches who can meet that expectation. I have no allegiance to the coaches. I'm a fan of the players (because they want to be Hokies) and by extension the team. And it's my opinion that the team is not being put in the best position to win a league they very well should be able to. That doesn't make me a hater. It makes me human.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Glad you laughed a little, hoped that would help the conversation.

I'd like to directly answer all your posts in this thread, but I think this specific discussion has run its course. I think we can all agree that all of us want more wins, we all want better recruiting, and we all want Tech to be successful now and in the future.

The fact is, Virginia Tech has made a long term investment in the coaches and they will most likely be coaching here for the next two years at least. Expectations have to be reconciled with reality. Maybe early success of 19 wins made people think Tech would be getting ten wins every year again forever. Not reality.

I might get into this again with you or someone else who uses these tropes in the future, because I don't think they're accurate. If they were jokes when they were first used I probably saw the humor in them, but once people use these tropes as shorthand statements of reality, they should be challenged. They are not reality just because they get repeated over and over. They are not statements of fact even though they get used that way. They are misleading statements used to disparage others, but also to disparage Virginia Tech.

Tropes that are used to disparage other schools and other people are used on TKP a lot (UNCheat, Miami is bak, Brent Snake, etc). I can see the humor in those. I don't mind them personally, but I know even those tropes bother some readers here. I tend not to use them anymore even though I may have at one time or another. I may use them occasionally in the future for humor, who knows.

But I don't use tropes that tear down Virginia Tech in a backhanded way. As Tech fans and supporters, we don't need to tear down our own teams, players, coaches, or fellow supporters. Our ACC and national rivals do that very well on their own. They don't need our help. We need to work with each other and row in the same direction. Together.

As fans we are going to be critical, we'll analyze information from different perspectives, we'll speculate, and we'll get into arguments with each other over meaningless statistics. Hopefully, we do it respectfully and remember that we're in this together with the players and coaches. Hopefully, we will support Hokies instead of making it harder to succeed.

Peace, and Go Hokies!

As any organization looking for success should do, the first step is laying out, clearly, the honest current reality. The fact that the ACC is currently the weakest conference in the P5 is simply an honest reality. It's not a trope. The statement is not meant to tear down the teams in the league. It's just a simple, objective fact.

Clearly you and I disagree on that particular point. Otherwise, I see what you're saying. Uncheat, Ped state, loluva, clemsuck, puke, thug u, etc are all tropes. I agree their use here is frequent and that they carry no value. But you just won't ever convince me that in the last 3 years the ACC has been better than any of the other P5 leagues. Because they have been objectively worse. A team, or any organization, cannot expect to improve if they fail to accurately evaluate their performance relative to the competition. The ACC, relative to their peers in the P5, has been weak in the last 3 years and failing to recognize that will prevent any sort of improvement. Just because you don't like the reality doesn't make it a trope.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

But you guys get some sort of enjoyment out of it, just Hokies Hating Hokies.

I take no pleasure in pointing out that the ACC is a weak conference, or that Va Tech would probably finish just north of Vanderbilt in the SEC standings. We had the opportunity to win the coastal division this year, after struggling to be Furhman- just say that out load 3 times and think about it. We would be a bottom feeder in the SEC, Kentucky beat us and finished 3 and 5 in the SEC east.
The ACC is a total bust without Clemson. Take a realistic look at the SEC and let me know which teams we would have beaten this year. People don't understand how hard it is to win in the SEC. The sheer size of the players would decimate our first string - We wouldn't finish the season with half of our players from the attrition playing larger and faster teams.
I wish we could just get back to winning the coastal. Our conference is hot garbage, and we are living off of our past successes. Tech should be able to suit up a team that can win the coastal, because there isn't much resistance there from what I can see. We will still be cannon fodder for Clemson, and that won't change with our current recruiting.

The Big 12's bowl record for 2019-2020 season was 1-5.

The ACC was 4-7, (not great, Bob!), but one of those losses was the National Championship game.

Yeah and two of those wins were against mid major teams. The stats I presented were strictly for P5 vs P5. The ACC is not a tough conference full of tough teams. It has Clemson and then a bunch of middling teams. I don't understand why you people can't accept that. It's a very winnable league and VT should be winning it. That's my expectation as a fan. I want VT to win it more often than not. I'm not convinced these coaches can. We'll see. Obviously I'm not in charge of hiring and firing but my opinion is that if Fuente can't win the coastal in 2020 then he probably won't do it ever again

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Yeah, I agree it's winnable.

I just think that it's not necessary to bash the ACC quite so hard. There are lots of average teams and it's winnable, but it's still a challenge to run the table. Most of those teams have a good day here and there.

I never said I expect to run the table. I said we should win the division. 80% of the time. Because it's weak. And full of basketball schools. It's embarrassing to lose to them.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

But isn't that the argument of every Coastal team? We really aren't special in this conference in football right now. In fact, I could make a strong case that we ARE a basketball school, and therefore it would be embarrassing for other schools to lose to us in football by your standard.

Get Angry, Bud!

We really aren't special in this conference in football right now.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. We used to be a football school. When I was a student we won the ACC twice in my 4 years and played for it 3 times. We were a football school. That's what Beamer built and that's what fans have come to expect. I expect coaches to take us back up to that standard and, in the best case scenario, surpass it.

But people like you are diminishing expectations to fit the status quo and I can promise you that we will never improve if we lower our standards to fit our current reality. That's not how growth works. Instead we should strive for a higher standard and hold people accountable for not meeting expectations. Lowering expectations will destroy any semblance of growth culture that may still remain. Lowering expectations is poison to success. If you ever want VT to be successful you have to reverse your mentality. Otherwise we're destined for mediocrity, or worse.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I disagree. It's more nuanced than that.

My standards aren't lowered, but I'm willing to give Fuente enough time to see his vision through without bashing him or the team day after day.

Then again, I was a fan long before we had that great run in the early 2000s, so I've seen some stuff.

My expectations overall aren't lowered just because I have more patience, and I've been chastened by the unrealistic fans of other teams who sentenced themselves to extended mediocrity through impatient and unrealistic demands. See Tennessee and Nebraska for examples of what purgatory looks like when you start thrashing around for short term gains.

I believe that football is a long game if you're at the low end of the top 25. The teams who keep firing their coaches for a home run every three years and owe multiple coaches $multi-million buyouts seem to take longer than the ones who thrash less and make sound financial decisions.

My expectations are still pretty high, but I'm willing to give Fuente a bit more time in order to see if he can realize his potential at VT.

It's an aircraft carrier, not a battleship.

My biggest concern is the lack of progress. But we're never going to agree because measuring progress isn't standard and we have different metrics. You believe there are signs of progress. I don't. That's the big difference between us. I'd be happy to give Fuente more time if I believed he had demonstrated progress over the last four years. I don't. But hopefully he does in 2020. Only time will tell.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I'm with you when a coach goes 10 -9 -6 -8 and people freak out because you say you're willing to give him time

That's the Tennessee fan base.

Jeremey Pruitt will get fired next year. Bet on it. Probably mid year after the first loss.

I'm not "crowning" him Beamer because that Duke game was bad but he's a good coach, get over it.

There's a very slim list of coaches who've had more success coming into a turnaround and there's ONE coach in the ACC who's lead a team to a better winning percentage than Fuente. One, and hes been to the national championship every year.

I mean If he goes 6 wins, nobody needs to discuss anything, if he goes 9+ nobody needs to discuss anything.

But I'm just being realistic aka "insufferably overly optimistic"

If you ever want VT to be successful you have to reverse your mentality.

Well, there it is. My personal opinion will apparently ruin Hokie football. My last big long post was about how I felt like people who just wanted to enjoy football were treated like a problem and not a part of the team. Glad to see some things haven't changed.

I want VT to win every football game they play. I do not expect them to win every game they play, nor to play significantly above a realistic expectation. It is not realistic with the state of the team right now to expect 4/5 Coastal titles. Recognizing that allows me to have fun watching games instead of stomping and yelling and generally carryin' on after a loss.

My long term expectation for Hokie football is that I enjoy watching it. I hope they get better, I want them to get better, but I'm not going to put myself through agony because my expectations don't match reality.

Get Angry, Bud!

Also, what the hell is this post? I just read it again and the entire tone is "Fuck you, buddy". This is close to a personal attack. My opinions are my own. But you have no right to accuse me of doing damage to Hokie football just by adjusting my expectations to account for reality.

The entire premise of this is ridiculous.

Get Angry, Bud!

I don't mean to launch personal attacks. I realize it reads like that and that's my bad. I apologize. My point is that moral victories don't get us anywhere. I want this team to be fun to watch. The last few years haven't been much fun for me. Perhaps my expectations are too high. But it is my belief that the ACC Coastal is full of teams that VT should be beating regularly. It's disappointing when the current coaches fail to do even just that. Losing to Duke, a basketball school, is embarrassing enough on its own. Losing to them the way we did is almost unthinkable. Certainly not fun. And I'm tired of blaming "execution errors" for everything that goes against us. Blaming the players just isn't right. Coaches should stand up and take all the heat, even if privately they really believe the players failed to execute. Publicly, they should stand up and take the blame for not having the players ready. They're getting paid, the players are not. At some point, the coaches have to be held accountable. And I discourage any narratives that seem to lower the bar because that type of thinking makes coaches comfortable and complacent. I want these coaches to feel uncomfortable after losing 12 games in the last two years against the softest schedule in the P5. I want them to feel the heat. Patting them on the back for almost winning games they didn't win just doesn't do it for me.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

The problem is that nobody is actually saying what you're paraphrasing them as saying.

Nobody is saying "we embrace the mediocrity, cuz we don't have higher expectations".

All anyone is saying is that the "We didn't win the ACC yet" crowd may have been a tad unrealistic with regards to the state of the team Fuente took over.

This was never going to be an instant winner. So you might as well embrace the process, or at least calm down until we see it through.

Amen. all you need to know about the coastal is that Paul Johnson's triple option offense won it more than once. That's how weak that division has been. A team that ran inside plays 90% of the time won the division multiple times with 80th ranked recruiting classes.

Lowering standards is how you become Pitt. And who the hell wants to follow that?

Uh, who cares? Bad teams upset good teams every year. Outside the division is a meaningless qualifier.

And bad teams beat average teams every year. It isn't unique to VT regardless of what we fans think.

Other teams never get bad calls against them, lose upsets, have transfers, or choke tight games \s

"I am probably too rational to be here"

I didn't say it was unique to VT? In fact, my comment is saying the exact opposite.

I wasn't arguing with you

"I am probably too rational to be here"

Question: Do you consider Divine Deablo a Beamer recruit or a Fuente?

This should be a monthly thread too. Maybe then we would only need a Part 1 for the recruiting thread.

nah, i at least plan on keeping up with the embeds because they're way more useful than they are a bother. when the load time gets too big, we can just start a new thread.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I think op saying that the actual recruiting news can fit in 1 thread, its the complaining and having same argument over and over that crashes the thread

Danny is always open
23 can't read

It CAN fit in one thread but the load times become unbearable so it will probably still be multiples

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Thank you for this; I hope to never revisit this thread and will look to Recruiting threads for, you know, actual updates about VT's potential recruits.

This battle has already been lost, and doesn't show any signs of changing...

My first question. What the hell?

I hate rude behavior in a man. Won't tolerate it.

This seems appropriate in this thread

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Yikes

Serious question. If one is already off of twitter where will they find official VT football news?

TKP

Danny is always open
23 can't read

TKP, The Athletic, Roanoke Times, 247

Twitter me

It's appropriate for this entire website. I'm not the most positive person on this site, but there's a difference between channeling frustrations at the grown men at the coaching staff and the kids that represent us on the team. I've seen people way too excited to post disparaging comments on our former players on here. There are always valid (and invalid) concerns and criticisms with both the play and quality of character of some players that have played at Virginia Tech, but sometimes they don't need to be shared so publicly.

Thank you.

I saw this last night and deleted twitter (after tweeting about the Miami's forwards forehead being taller than half our team). I had a much more peaceful night

(add if applicable) /s

I have an account but really only ever use it to check current event stories. I rarely post anything that isn't a retweet.

That being said, some of the communities on there are starting to drive me away. The KPop craze alone is just a bit much. Like, they try to inject themselves into seemingly every discussion, and it just seems impossible to filter it all out.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Complaining about complainers

#Let's Go - Hokies

#Complainception

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Fuente said in interviews that they ID'd several under the radar players in satellite camps who they loved after working them out and speaking to them. Strong was one and he's the lowest rated by 247. Pene as well.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Huh, surprised this update didn't come straight from whit...

/s

Let's see it translate against Duke and BC.

Current jekyll and hyde state of VT football feels like we will beat Duke and BC solidly but then lose to Pitt and some other middling ACC team in 2020. I desperately, desperately hope I'm wrong.

Hokie Club member since 2017

Exactly, that's called medicore. Which is where we are.

Is this the airing of grievances thread?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Click here to destroy wall.

Fireman was attempting to provide that to those who think the recruiting thread is that, every month.

*moved*

DC logging in and seeing this thread title:

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

lol

just pokin fun, no harm intended, lol

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Not sure if this is accurate but saw a ranking of 21 prospects in Va and number 7 is Trenton Adkins an athlete from Clintwood Va. His offer list is huge ( TN,PSU,SC, UNC and many more) but it says we have not even offered and that is Justin Hamilton's hometown? Doesn't make sense if that is correct?

He may have just not reported the offer yet

He should tell the VT staff he's really from Texas.

I actually like that they're recruiting more texas kids. It just makes me wonder whether Fuente is recruiting them for VT or for his next job.