Saban calls out TAMU

CBS Sports Article

A&M bought every player on their team -- made a deal for name, image and likeness. We didn't buy one player. But I don't know if we're going to be able to sustain that in the future because more and more people are doing it.

That is the spicy bit. This should get good since Jimbo is not a guy to hold his tongue either. Give me Bama by 20 when they play.

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This tweet perfectly sums up my feelings about coaches complaining about NIL

Ah but you see it's different for coaches because of reasons and also other reasons.

Mark Whipple is clearly in the right for using his success at Pitt to increase his financial well being at Nebraska. Jordan Addison is clearly in the wrong for using his success at Pitt to increase his financial well being at another school. Those two situations are very different. Very different.

Mark Whipple was an employee at the University of Pittsburgh and not bound by rules of amateurism. Pretty easy to grasp. Like you, Whipple was an at will employee, negotiated a better job, and resign his position at Pitt. Since Addison was not an at will employee at Pitt but a student bound by rules he volunteered for. Apples/Oranges if you are being honest

I upvoted this because it's technically correct ("the best kind of correct") but it hand waives right past the complexities of the "amateurism" issue in college sports which is clearly in dire need of restructuring.

Uh, what rules did Addison break? He's allowed to transfer and he's allowed to make money off his NIL. Him moving on from Pitt is completely within the rules, even if it's purely to make more money.

Which is my point, Addison and Whipple are both perfectly allowed to do this, their logic for doing it is the same, and yet people are only losing their minds about one of them.

The basic argument that you're making, as I see it, is that Pitt should have more control over its players because programs have always had huge amounts of control over players. That just isn't how the rules work any more and judging players for moving on based on that premise is weird.

So, it still seems pretty much the same to me, if we're being honest.

The challenge is if you're going to force certain rules on schools, it forces some control of the schools on players. For instance, if you have scholarship limits, the schools need some way to keep within those limits, which translates to kids signing letters of intent and being obligated to go there. Otherwise, a school would have to just offer a certain amount of scholarships and then whoever showed up in the fall would be the team, and if too many showed up, what, you'd have to tell some of them to go someplace else? Or only offer a certain number that would then make it likely to have fewer than the allowed amount. The more rules applied to the colleges, the more control they have to have on the athletes in order to comply with the rules.

And saying hiring and retaining a coach is the same as recruiting and retaining a player is kinda shortsighted. I can name a whole list of differences. So no, it's not just because schools have always had control and that's the only reason. If you are going to remove any and all obligations players have to schools, you have to do things like remove class size limits, scholarship limits, and all that crap so colleges can manage a roster.

" a student bound by rules he volunteered for. Apples/Oranges if you are being honest"

Rules set by people that do not represent the best interest of the athletes

Yeah his whining falls on deaf ears for me. Oh, so sorry that your paying of players under the table doesn't give you the competitive advantage anymore that you once had. I'm so sorry for you. Same with you, Dabo.

I don't like what this sport has become for a variety of reasons, but watching the established power structure blow up because there's no reason to be shady and under the table anymore is not one of them. Its like watching a bunch of millionaire and billionaire executives try and convince the working force that discussing wages at the workplace is strictly forbidden because they damn well know their expenses will quickly balloon up once employees know their true earning potential, ruining all their attempts at widespread wage suppression.

This is my school
This is home

Saban's just using the public megaphone to shame the Crimson boosters.

Time to watch the state of Alabama bankrupt itself trying to keep up with A&M's oil money. The Roll Tide folks are now closely watching barrel prices to pick the perfect moment to strike.

I've been to Alabama many times. Poverty, education, state GDP, etc are public record. Where in the fuck does all that booster money come from in that hellscape? Serious question. Old money? out of state booster? or does every fucking single person in Bama donate 20 dollars to roll tide?

Like a major Bama booster (and graduate of said institution) once told me (without irony) in the salon of his Hatteras GT tied up in Miami Beach Marina, "What else do we have? There's nothing else there."

having been through there less than a year ago, he's 100% correct

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

When you already aren't using public money to fix a goddamn thing (because the state can't afford it) and refuse to raise taxes on the super wealthy who could actually help, that money tends to end up being used for the frivolous whims of said wealthy.

This is my school
This is home

To be fair, they've also done a pretty thorough job of substituting Bama fandom for what's lacking in that state, which speaks to DC's question about everyone donating $20.

Bread and circus goes a long way, particularly when it's tied to dignity and community.

Agree because the state can afford it. It just chooses not to. If you look at the state books, AL has an enormous amount of oil royalty and trust funds (Alabama trust fund) virtually untouched. The state guarantees funding for education and state employee pensions (by way of owning a bunch of the state buildings) first. The state is certainly fiscally conservative but it could open up its pocket books a little more instead of acting like it's always broke...

Let's Go

HOKIES

Lol... grey uniforms are expensive. They're saving that money for when the south rises again.

In all seriousness though, the ATF is somewhere north of $3BN, which is a lot of money, don't get me wrong. But it's not sovereign wealth money. There are several institutions of higher learning with larger endowments, just for comparison sake. It does put a large amount of the state's financial resources into the hands of a small number of people though and they could probably do more with it than what they do now.

Edit: As an amusing aside, two members of the ATF BoD are named "Young Boozer" and "Guice Slawson, Jr."

In the grand scheme of things, that 3 billion doesn't buy THAT much. When it comes to fixing a state's needs, that's a bandaid. That number would be good for construction of less than 8.5 million sf of new educational facilities. Which equates to less than 130 elementary schools. Split that in half if it were high schools. University level buildings are more expensive. Then also take 10% out for non-construction costs. Another 10% for additional furnishing. And that's before you even touch hiring, land acquisition, supplies.
Just looking at it from a construction point of view, that wouldn't "fix" a state. And construction is far from the only thing needed for a fix.

The VT Capital Outlay authorization for 21-22 is 1.097 Billion. That's only for 26 projects and doesn't account for small projects that aren't capital projects.

Exactly. I think we're saying the same thing. You spelled it out more clearly and without sarcasm.

I'm just here as reinforcements.

Might be the funniest thing I have ever heard. LOL. Bama players are on record as saying they have been paid by boosters- they have been on probation many times since the 70's. Hilarious.

Can you dig up a link to this public record? Serious question.

A quick google search turned up this article from 2014. That's all I found prior to this year. Smoke for sure but not players saying they've been paid.

I just love the drama because Jimbo is not going to take it well haha.

There is a clear problem with NIL and boosters just buying players for their schools. I want the players to get paid and I think they should all be given an equal salary and then they can do Endorsements on their own to profit from their personal success. Get the boosters out of it though.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

This is the showdown I'm waiting for to go public.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Next Aflac commercial is going to be a cage match where they need need insurance to cover their resulting injuries

Deion still doesn't know proper spelling?

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

What word made you ask that?

EDIT: I didn't catch it at first, but just discovered that writing in all caps bypasses Word's spellcheck. Payed.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Saban does make a good point though. The intent of NIL was not to pay players for recruiting purposes and now that no one is enforcing it things are out of control.

Y'all gotta have figured this out by now. Not only is Saban more or less completely right here, but this is a clear warning to the rest of college football. All the times he's been accused of "whining" or "complaining" about the state of the game, time has shown that he was actually broadcasting a warning, loud and clear.

This is what will ultimately cause Saban to retire. Less control over his roster, less control overall. It's not about NIL money, its about control with him. Like K and Dean, Saban wants to control every aspect of his program.

Yup

VB born, class of '14

Yup, Bama is now going to roll out an NIL fund the likes no one has ever seen. He was rallying the troops there, not bellyaching. He wants his boosters to know if they want to continue winning nattys, you gotta pay up.

This is one right here. The sound bites came out with no context. I bet Jimbo and Nick will hash it out privately and the flame won't be this strong when they play this fall. Saban was clearly talking to boosters/alumni donors and was just making the point that other schools are throwing millions and buying players legally now. When you have the context, it's clear he is lighting a fire under the donors to his program that they need to step it up if Bama is to continue competing at the highest level and they no longer have to hide it.

I don't think Jimbo and Prime got full context of what Saban was doing before making their statements. Jimbo has been an idiot for a long time IMO, good football coach but snake oil type guy. He knew exactly what he was doing going to A&M. They are a cash cow school that make FSU look poor. The crazy part of all this is that A&M will be a Playoff contender very soon with all that talent they legally just bought. Saban knows it, hence why he said what he said to his people.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

not sure if you saw any of jimbo's presser yesterday, but he basically poured napalm on saban's entire existence

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Sort of. He made a bunch of potentially incendiary statements, all of which were extremely vague with no specifics or details, said the word I'm not a cheater/no violations a bunch of times, which Saban never said either of those words, he said they bought players (they did). Then he dodged/avoided every question from the crowd about whether or not they actually paid players, so he didn't even really deny what Saban said.

Plus, and here's the big thing, nobody is going to launch the nukes because they all have them and it's mutually assured destruction. Anything Jimbo said is about as dangerous as a dull, plastic toy sword.

he certainly wasn't amicable towards Nick Saban as a person -- saying saban called but he didn't answer and they're done, the god complex answer, so on so forth etc etc. just doesn't seem now like it's going to amicable or neutral moving forward

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I did. I still feel like Jimbo's people were mis-informed about the context of Saban's sound bites. Saban wasn't going at A&M IMO. He was telling his donors that if they don't step it up that A&M is going to buy their way to Natty's, which in turn could put Bama out of that boat. Jimbo clearly went for the jugular but again, I'm not sure once the fool comes to his senses and gets clarity on context, that he might try to walk it all back. Time will tell I guess.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

Yeah. Saban is going to adapt and continue dominate whatever the conditions are as long as he feels like it

Slap fight!!! Jimbo vs Saban!!!!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Circling this game on my calendar now. If it doesn't end in Jimbo and Saban throwing haymakers on the 50 I'll be shocked

I will be shocked if it does, but pleasantly entertained.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

TAMU @ Alabama October 8

Going to be some primetime reality TV leading up to that game

The top two classes and Saban is bitching because he cant compete with the texas money. This just screams two entitled babies whining they dont have what the other does. On one hand Jimbo is bitching because he doesnt have the history and heritage Nick does and Nick is just mad he cant dominate recruiting the way he once did now.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Jimbo's response

I say let them fight

Can we just skip the actual game and setup a cage match at midfield?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Somebody get Dana White on the phone.

It's Time to go to Work

TBH the problem isn't the players being paid, it's the total non-regulation of the market. The idea that Alabama and say UAB are on equal footing is completely laughable. I'm also not convinced that this wasn't happening before, it's just out in the open now.

I love college football but the idea of coupling what is supposed to be a non-profit academic institution with sports programs that generate real money is super weird and at the root of all of this IMO.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

I love college football but the idea of coupling what is supposed to be a non-profit academic institution with sports programs that generate real money is super weird and at the root of all of this IMO.

That's the bottom line, I think. There's really no other example of this, outside the US. In the rest of the world, college sports teams are treated like club teams. There's just no comparison in the interest levels.

Would there be interest in a true football development league, say 64 teams, affiliated with colleges but managed wholly by an NFL subsidiary, with some sort of levelled talent acquisition? I don't know. The powerful teams are not going to give up their advantages (money, talent acquisition, prestige) without a fight. A large percentage of fans might be turned off by the change to the system (death of "amateurism", only loose affiliation with the college). But if we're ever going to see a college football landscape that has some semblance of being level, that's where it's going to have to go.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Would there be interest in a true football development league, say 64 teams, affiliated with colleges but managed wholly by an NFL subsidiary, with some sort of levelled talent acquisition?

NFL owners are content to let someone else pay for early player development and bear the risk that comes with it. A baseball-style system or G-league alternate approach are too costly to start up for a sport with as many season/career ending injuries as football. The combine is already monetized. the draft is already monetized as part of the push for a year-round league calendar.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

NFL owners are content to let someone else pay for early player development and bear the risk that comes with it.

I'm sure they are. But what happens with the haves break away and start paying players and the have nots drop their sports because they're not financially able to compete? If there isn't enough quality talent getting developed, at some point they may have to step in. They have the money to do it.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I think it's pretty much a non-starter to expect universities to give up the revenue stream by choice and I think fan momentum would prevent a minor league replacement from having any real traction. They would have to be coerced by federal regulation or a meteor would have to hit the earth for the current system to end.

Realistically the best path forward is to figure out how to regulate the current system, and accept that it will always be kinda corrupt and unfair.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

I think it's pretty much a non-starter to expect universities to give up the revenue stream by choice

I think schools may choose to give up the revenue stream once players start being compensated commensurate with their value.

I think fan momentum would prevent a minor league replacement from having any real traction

I think you're right about this.

Realistically the best path forward is to figure out how to regulate the current system, and accept that it will always be kinda corrupt and unfair.

If you think the players, having seen the gains they've seen, are going to start backing down now and accept a kinda corrupt and unfair system, have I got a bridge to sell to you.

I have no idea what direction college football is headed, but I can guarantee that the 18th century concept of amateurism in college athletics is on its death knell, due mainly to the amounts of money pouring into the sport. The Supreme Court just shot down a major part of the ability to regulate the money, and the sport is entering a turbulent period. Who knows what's going to come out of it?

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

But college football hasn't really been "non-profit" for a long time. The money is just going to athletes (publicly) instead of coaches/facilities.

Uh... yeah man. That's my point. Virginia Tech and its peers are still non-profits though.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

I only focused on the second paragraph, and not the first. smh

What do they say about people in glass houses? Nicki better watch out, my guess is things wouldn't look so good if his closet doors were flung open. Jimbo was a Saban assistant, he has the inside info.

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

He said there is a reason no one goes back to coach under him a 2nd time. This is just starting and I love it. Now we need Kiffin to throw his name into the hat and make it a royal rumble at SEC Media days.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

He said there is a reason no one goes back to coach under him a 2nd time.

Maybe because what he teaches them is something that doesn't need to be learned a second time. You can absorb what he's teaching you, and intellectualize it, but not everybody can put that amount of will into it to succeed.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Finebaum show should be straight lit today!

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Bama ain't paid nobody PAAAAAAUUUUUUUULLLLLL

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

This whole thing is the way it was 100 years ago, prior to the NCAA and "rules" were initiated to stop paying players. One of VT's most famous football players was paid (debatable) and played many years. No eligibility limits back then.

#Let's Go - Hokies

The rumors about Hunter Carpenter were lies pushed by UVA cause they were tired of him kicking their ass.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Lol, and now a lot of the truth starts flowing. I guess the best recruits didn't go to the SEC because "it just means more" or the amazing nightlife and social scene in Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Oxford, etc. Nope, just a lot of $$$. Clemson followed this approach as well.

Su'a has been a good follow these past couple days, tweeted one saying he has been in workouts with guys who told him they were making more at 'Bama than their practice squad salary (in 2021 the minimum practice squad salary was $9,200 per WEEK, or $165,600 for the season)

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

It's funny that the poorest, shittiest region of the country made it about money and enjoyed a competitive advantage. What happens now that the rest of the country can make it about money too..?

There will be some exceptions, but I suspect SEC country's financial contributions to football will outpace the rest of the country's interest in college football.

As long as they lose the natty champ game every year (or are excluded) I won't care.

To which I say who cares? Why can't we go back to the regional model for college sports? We got so obsessed with a national champion with the BCS and now playoff. Literally don't give a shit who is called national champ. It used to be all about winning your league and playing in/winning that big bowl. If you were number 1, hooray you win a prize!

If the SEC wants to break away and call their champ "national champ", let them. ACC can start calling our champ world heavyweight champ.

I don't disagree with the regional focus. As a Hokie fan, I've accepted that we are not a national champ level football program a la Bama, UGA, OSU. So yes winning the ACC and wearing my VT shirt all around the mid Atlantic with my chest out a little bigger is good for me.

But you can't un-ring the national champion bell so do you think ND and Clemson want to just play regional ball? No they'd be joining the SEC North and Midwest divisions (after they become a nationwide league) and VT is stuck playing the likes of JMU, ODU, and ECU who would replace them in the ACC Football conference or whatever we'd be calling it.

I don't necessarily care, I'm just saying that the new model isn't going to upend the SEC just because there are wealthier parts of the country. My hypothesis is that those parts of the country don't care enough about college football to use their financial power to their advantage.

They might not be able to hoard talent to the same degree they've been able to the past decade or so.

And honestly I wouldn't care if USC (the real one in LA, not south carolina) wins the national championship every year for the next 50 years, as long as the SEC doesn't win it.

This is the beginning of the end of Nick Saban and Alabama and I couldnt be happier! Saban will forced out of college football in shame and the end of all this. Titles will be stripped, they may even take his name completely off of anything to do with bama. I am excited!!!!!

There are wolves and there are sheep, I am the sheep dog

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

"I don't even wear a watch and I know what time it is. They forget I know who's been bringing the bag and dropping it off," Sanders said. "I know this stuff. I'm not the one you want to play with when it comes to all of this stuff."

https://andscape.com/features/deion-sanders-responds-to-nick-sabans-comm...

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Because I used to coach some high school football I got to know a number of D-1 recruits and their families, one story in particular sticks out:

A young man from our school was recruited and offered by most ACC, BIG and SEC schools - really good player. He ended up staying in the ACC, having a great career (All ACC) and then getting drafted.

He went out west (Cali) to workout with a bunch of aspiring athletes prior to the draft and out of nowhere one of the players said, "So, how much did ya'll get?" Most, not all, of the players started rattling off $$ numbers and cars... This particular young gentleman said, "Wait, what?? Ya'll got paid?!" He knew things were going on, but he was completely floored as to the extent (this was somewhere around 2012 or so). Those getting paid the most were from the SEC, closely followed by players from the BIG 12.

Is coronavirus over yet?

The big difference is now the Texas & A&M schools alumni are going to fund NIL programs that guarantee a student athlete at least $10-50k a year. The question is will the other school's wealthy alumni be able to match?