I was going to put this in the "Vent" thread, but thought it deserved it's own forum topic.
Anyway, I know we're all disappointed with the on-field performance of the team last night, but here's another thing that I was hoping we'd never have to vent about: the Lane Stadium experience.
Don't get me wrong, it's impressive that we can get 60,000+ to show up for a bad team, but boy the stadium experience is just not what it was.
I know it's not everyone, but the students are acting like absolute clowns. Throwing bottles into crowds with families and small children. Pushing and shoving fans around. Elbowing people in the face. Screaming obscenities at fans that are just trying to enjoy the game. Etc. etc. etc. And I'm sure other people on here can vouch for this happening.
It's getting to the point where I would barely feel comfortable taking my wife and small children to the game, which is really, REALLY pathetic.
On top of that, we've got fans (likely students) leaving at halftime of a tight game against a bitter rival?? When did that become a thing??
I don't know exactly how it got to this point, but I'm sure there has got to be a way to turn this around again. I realize I'm not offering much in the way of help/suggestions, but just wanted to vent a little bit and see if y'all had any similar experiences.
Comments
From TV, the students looked straight up bored. My wife (not from a football school) was curious why everyone looked so unengaged (this was the first quarter)
Crowd was juiced at first, then by mid second quarter it just seemed liked people were resigned to us losing even though it was still close. Maybe due to the terrible offensive performance? Very flat atmosphere for a close rivalry game.
Maybe you can call me a Debbie Downer but I felt the game was over when we went for the 4th and 1 and didn't get it. That was the first call of Pry's that I completely disagreed with. We aren't good enough to leave points on the field and it felt like the offense lost a bunch of confidence after that failed conversion.
I have spent all weekend defending the decision to go for it was the absolute correct one. The two crappy play calls I do not agree with.
We needed a punch in the mouth to stay afloat in this one and with a turnover and the crowd pumped, it's exactly the time to go for it.
People forget our kicker to that point has a total of 5 FG's under his belt in any form of competitive football. FG's at that distance are not guaranteed, and I think we can see that those 3 points became completely useless by the end
We needed TD's in order to win that game and Pry knew it. Unfortunately we decided to run the 2 plays up the gut back to back when we could already see that was not going to be high probability of conversion.
I don't mind the decision. I do mind the call.
I didn't hate either, tbh. We're not good enough to run that play successfully right now but we need to be. Dress for the job you want, not the one you have. We'll get there. In a couple years, I think we'll be one of those teams where when we line up for it on 4th and 1 and everyone in the stadium knows what's coming and everyone in the stadium also knows that it can't be stopped. That is what Pry wants to do to teams and I'm here for it. Even if it takes a few years to get there.
Agreed it is something we need to be able to do. I think it was obvious to everyone in the stadium that a run up the middle was probably 50/50 at best. Do you throw a 5 yd hitch, slant route, or screen with better odds? I'm not sure but it feels like getting a playmaker on the edges was our best outcome at the time
That is what I was hoping for.
Ah, the days of the Wild Turkey formation and Greg Boone acting as a bulldozer.
Boooooooooooonnneeeee!!!!!!!
I think this kicker might be the best one we've had in a long time.
Yep! Perfect on extra points (9 of 9 DAMN I wish the number itself was higher but iiwii) and 6 for 6 field goals with 5 of those from over 40. Awesome stats!!
High praise considering the last two also played on Sundays the last couple years.
This is hard to read about every week. Its like COVID flipped a switch on people behaving in public or these kids parents are just assholes. I went to every home game from 2004-2015 and not once did I have an issue with VT students even as a student myself in the middle of NEZ.
I think our expansion has led to taking many kids of questionable character
I didn't know character was part of the admissions assessment. What portion of the SAT covers character again?
You're making my point for me. SATs aren't even required by VT anymore
Because the SAT is predictive of nothing aside from the ability of a student (or their family) to afford test prep. Most universities are dropping the requirement and VT is studying this policy over a period of years to assess whether dropping the SAT requirement leads to any change in retention or graduation rates. Thus far, there is only positive evidence and I would doubt an SAT requirement would be reinstated.
To the point at hand, VT has a holistic assessment process that evaluates the academic rigor of a student's high school education including the qualifications of the school and their grading policies (and any known grade inflation) as well as a non-cognitive assessment. This is done through a series of essays that are evaluated for an applicant's character traits, leadership skills, etc. The current process has led to an increasingly diverse student body with a range of talents. Behavioral issues are happening country-wide and are nothing to do with how VT admits students.
Link: MIT going other direction
Because the SAT is predictive of nothing aside from the ability of a student (or their family) to afford test prep.
This is outright false.
The second paragraph is a dressed up way of saying VT is materially increasing enrollment and instead of admitting that the only way to do that is to lower standards, they just changed the standards. When VT adds 5000 students, they don't get students that would be attending NCST, GT, UVA, W&M. They get students who would have gone to Radford, VCU, ODU. This is represented by the drop in enrollment over the last few years at RU.
The worst part of this gaslighting is the soft notion that because this new process has led to a more diverse student body, criticism of it is a front for underlying bigotry.
Most universities are dropping the requirement and VT is studying this policy over a period of years to assess whether dropping the SAT requirement leads to any change in retention or graduation rates.
Behavioral issues are happening country-wide and are nothing to do with how VT admits students.
Perhaps these too are related and the muddling of real rigorous standards has led to a drop in the quality of students nationwide.
Please provide a source for your first assertion. Standardized tests are more strongly correlated with socioeconomic status than outcomes at universities. GRE scores are almost meaningless, too. Hence the rash of universities dropping them. We had plenty of students in our program with great standardized test scores who flamed out because they couldn't succeed in a graduate research environment. The test provided no value so we dropped it and have been doing great. SAT is similar. It has limited or no predictive value in a student succeeding at a university, be it through GPA, first year retention rates, or graduation. It's a weak predictor at best.
Except statistics say that's not true. It's harder than ever to get into VT if you look solely at academic credentials. I'm sorry that I can't fully summarize the hourlong presentation I got from the director of admissions (and the full questioning by faculty afterwards) but while VT is looking at different criteria than in the past, it's simply not true that standards are lower. And students are going on to increasingly strong careers and winning more awards/external scholarships.
Or there is a generational change in people's behavior, influence of social media, politics, etc. but I'm not going to get into that here as we will quickly be down a rabbit hole of discussion that isn't appropriate here.
I think hand in hand with these is people having access to information more widely and quicker. Perception versus reality in a lot of cases is just because people are only now area of things that have gone on for a long time. It's a big part of my grad classes when we talk about perception of risk to certain hazards and disasters when in reality the risk to many is low and the ones they don't perceive as a risk really are.
Social media, sure. But this is also a problem in modern journalism. Yeah: Rabbit Hole.
The MIT article above includes their research on the subject. I'm sure there is a positive relationship between people who paid for test prep and higher scores (otherwise no one would pay for test prep). To say that the only predictive value of the SAT is whether the parents could afford test prep is so absurd that you don't even believe that. Here is an example to prove this. There are two groups of 100 applicants separated by test results, group A all scored 1400 and group B all scored 1000. We want to test which group performed better in college general Chemistry. Now run this 1000 times to rule out a sampling error. You are telling me you believe the results come back 50/50?
We had plenty of students in our program with great standardized test scores who flamed out because they couldn't succeed in a graduate research environment.
This is an example of using the exception as the rule. We aren't talking about a natural law that can't be violated. There are obviously people who have scored very well on tests who were unsuccessful in their academic pursuits and vice versa. To say because this happens standardized tests have zero predictive value is dishonest.
Except statistics say that's not true. It's harder than ever to get into VT if you look solely at academic credentials. I'm sorry that I can't fully summarize the hourlong presentation I got from the director of admissions (and the full questioning by faculty afterwards) but while VT is looking at different criteria than in the past, it's simply not true that standards are lower. And students are going on to increasingly strong careers and winning more awards/external scholarships.
There are so many contradicting claims in your posts. You are simultaneously arguing that academic measures such as SAT are not predictive and therefore not useful in admissions but VT is harder to get into than ever by academic measures. Also if objective measures such as SAT are not a factor but subjective measures such as character and leadership traits have greater emphasis in admissions. Then it is hard to make an objective case that standards are higher now when the admissions process is admittedly more subjective.
Regarding the SAT, many studies over many years have shown it to be a poor predictor of college success. GPA is a better indicator. GPA combined with SAT is slightly better than GPA alone. VT still uses GPA as an admissions requirement, and on average, the GPA of entering students in high school has gone up. Since VT has eliminated the SAT as a requirement (while still allowing students to opt-in for submitting their scores, which a slight majority still do), application numbers have increased as has first-semester GPA while enrolled at VT (3.19 in Fall 2019 vs. 3.23 in Fall 2021, the most recent numbers we have). While those numbers may not indicate any kind of statistically significant increase, and it is admittedly just two data points, they reflect the fact that, academically, VT students are not performing any worse than they did when our applications required the SAT. We will continue on our "test optional" policy for three years to study full retention and graduation data, and make a decision based on those outcomes. Twelve peer institutions and all public colleges in VA alone that have gone test-optional in recent years, so it's not like we're some kind of outlier. Overall, I remain steadfast that many studies conclude that SAT scores are weak predictors of student outcomes in college. My original remarks may have been a bit flippant, but the point stands. VT students are just as successful in the classroom as they have ever been, if not better, since our removal of the testing requirement.
Regarding the GRE,
Or it's not.
It's not a natural law, but it's been proven that the GRE general test sucks at predicting whether students will succeed in completing post-graduate degrees. One such statistic (cite by https://www.manhattanreview.com/gre-predictor-of-success/) is:
So yeah, coin flip, or worse, in both GPA and degree completion. Further reading on the topic: https://www.science.org/content/article/gres-dont-predict-grad-school-su...
A really interesting example related specifically to physics: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aat7550
Notably, this study found that students who scored in the lower 50th percentile had similar degree completion rates as those who scored among the top:
And that was for the physics-specific test for those going into graduate programs in physics. So even a discipline-specific test doesn't do a very good job. There are many similar studies that don't focus directly on physics. We have assessed the data in our own program and are still confident that removing the GRE requirement was the right move. We have had an uptick in excellent applicants who are now excellent students in the program. That is admittedly anecdotal, but we examined a number of studies on the matter and they all come to the same general conclusion. The GRE general test is not particularly useful in predicting success in graduate school.
Let me be more specific. VT is attracting an increasingly competitive applicant pool in terms of GPA, valedictorians, higher class ranks, etc. Ignore SAT for a moment. If the whole discussion is basically that VT has lower standards for entrance and somehow riff-raff are now polluting our campus for the blind desire to increase enrollment, that assertion lacks any basis in fact. And as I noted above, our students are performing better than they were a few years ago in terms of on-campus assessments by VT faculty (again, I will stipulate the small increase in GPA might be statistical noise but at least the outcomes are on par and not lower by any measurable amount). Our current holistic evaluation process does still include academic rigor as a main component, but also allows for students to score points with evaluators with non-cognitive assessments in essay questions. This opens the door of opportunity to more students, and they're doing just fine. And we haven't needed standardized testing as a requirement to maintain this standard.
I would be curious to see how /if at all gpa inflation is affecting the metrics
That's all nice, but the entire premise is based on GPAs maintaining a certain numerical score, or graduation rates being similar.
As if those things aren't mostly normalized.
In other words, my distinct impression is that many professors have a general idea of what their grade distributions are going to be for a particular class before the class even starts, and may adjust the grades for an entire class, either through harder or easier tests, adding "extra credit", or increasing grades. So they aren't really immune to grade inflation. Making this quite a hard thing to measure with any level of accuracy unless the tests stay the same.
I would agree that test prep increases scores, but what percentage of students pay for test prep in high school? I would agree that too much of high school seems to be focused on standardized tests, rather than generally educating students.
It would seem to defy logic that you can significantly increase enrollment without lowering standards, even as political leaders are promoting the idea that "everyone needs to go to college". And the folks attempting to measure such things always seem to have some interest in the results.
As far as standards go, If you look at high school tests from years past, you can't help but wonder if average college students would pass them these days.
LMAO I love how everyone's like 'yea, that guy who has spent his whole career in higher ed knows nothing about it. I saw some rowdy 18-22 year olds, VT admissions must be slipping.'
I don't think anyone said that, at least I wouldn't want my comment interpreted that way. To be clear, nobody here is diminishing VTGuitarMan's academic or professional credentials. He's relating a presentation he's seen. As such, it's useful input.
On the other hand, it sounds like wishful thinking to say that you can significantly expand enrollment in a short period of time without changing selectivity for the folks you're admitting. A person putting together data in a presentation may have had an unconscious (or conscious) bias. The decision to admit more people wasn't driven by selectivity. It was driven by increasing capacity. The decision has been made, and there are pros and cons of expansion. So we may as well embrace it.
It IS fair to say that making a generalization relating to the cause of student behavior at games incorporates a lot of assumption, and is opinion, which is the nature of a comment board. But it also seems that SOMETHING has changed related to civility at games. Is it the whole generation? Is it lack of admissions selectivity? Can we blame it on COVID, like everything else? Is it lower security presence at games?
Or is it just our impression that's changed, based on recent reports of people on this forum? I'm hearing things about VT fans that I used to only hear about opposing fans. And I'm hearing these things FROM VT fans.
Nobody can say for sure without better data, because all of these are possible contributing factors.
The real point is that most of us want our fans/students/university to be perceived in best possible light. We insist on a certain standard of behavior. So when we hear that a minimal standard isn't being maintained, it's probably more important to make sure this gets addressed than to determine a precise cause.
It may be time to bring back "Hokie Respect", because we generally want VT fans to be conscious of how they're perceived, and to reflect the ideals of the university they represent. And we want VT games to be a safe place to bring families and guests. This is our minimal acceptable standard.
It sounds like wishful thinking until you realize that tech fielded ~20.9k applications for enrollment in Fall 2014 but fielded ~45k applications for enrollment in Fall 2022. (2014 coincides with Sands appointment)
Actual enrollment only raised by ~950 for freshmen in 2022 vs freshmen in 2014.
Applications to tech have risen at like ~8% year over year for close to a decade.
That's sounds good, but I'm not sure # of applications means quite as much as it sounds. I mean, twice as many applications doesn't mean VT is twice as selective, right? What's the reason for it? I would need a LOT more data to really understand recent changes in college applications to make any informed analysis on that.
I don't even know how people apply any more. Do they just pick VT on a list in an app/website? Is there an app/website that tells students how likely they are to get in? How much of it is automated? I'm sure individual applications aren't typed and mailed in the way they were when I applied.
Just off the top of my head, has the number of applications gone up for other peer schools? Why did the number of applications double? What is the effect of the common application on all of this? Does VT now advertise more? Has VT opened up additional locations? Has anything else changed about the admissions process? Are these in state/out of state/international applications?
TL;DR #1: If you get more applications, but your criteria didn't change, are you more selective? Have the criteria gotten tougher? Are they more selective relative to their peers?
I'll be the first to admit that I don't really know how this is measured, or how it compares to other schools. I'd say more applications is probably a good thing. And this is part of the justification for a robust athletic department.
TL;DR #2: I hope you guys are right that VT is maintaining their standards.
Isn't there an application "clearing house" that basically sends you application to a bunch of universities, even ones you might not seriously consider?
Nobody is saying VT got "twice as selective" or even that selectivity went up. You said that it's wishful thinking to say that expanding enrollment doesn't inherently go hand-in-hand with changing the selectivity (with the easily-made inference that admissions becomes less selective with increased enrollment).
All I'm countering with is that when the pool of applicants grows significantly, the enrollment can grow without inherently detracting from or changing the admission standards.
Twice as many applications doesn't necessarily say ANYTHING about selectivity. it says something about the number of applications, and gives the appearance of selectivity.
Just as an example, what would the difference between Stanford selecting 18% of it's applicants for admission, and 9% ten years later? Is one actually more selective than the other? Or does it just mean a lot of people are applying who have virtually no chance at admission? A lot of weaker applications doesn't make the strongest ones stronger.
I'm saying that this one data point, without some level of qualification, doesn't mean nearly as much as it sounds.
If you have twice as many stronger applications, then sure. But that's a different data point.
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where is the disconnect here? im not saying that tech got more selective, or even any less selective. you're not outright saying it, and maybe you're not intending to imply it, but it is really coming across as if your position is that tech can't simply be growing the enrollment by attracting a greater number of qualified applicants to the university (as opposed to just lowering admissions standards).
What I don't understand is why making VT bigger is inherently a bad thing. Like, we're not sacrificing our academics, we're still very much as strong in tech as we've always been, we're more popular than ever in terms of getting people to want to attend the school, we're turning more people away than we ever have before, and we're admitting more than we ever have before.
For all the talk we like to do about how we aren't a big sports program and we wish that could be different, this is exactly the kind of movement that you'd think people would absolutely be on board with. Right now we have 30k undergraduate students, another 7k postgrad students, we're still trying to expand, and we're still held in very high regard in hiring circles for those with a degree. We're literally the 2nd largest school in terms of undergraduate student body, in the ACC, behind only Florida State, and 3rd largest in overall student body, behind FSU and GT. 10 years ago, we were right on the average mark in the the conference, and we've made up that ground without sacrificing our academic prestige. Give it 10-20 years and VT very much will be able to hold its own when it comes to being able to financially act like one of the bigger schools because we're putting in the work now to make sure the brand is bigger down the line than it is now.
I have no problems with the growth. It is positioning us to be highly sought after as both an academic and athletic partner to either the Big Ten or SEC when it comes time for the ACC to collapse. If anything, it kind of shows that Sands might have been ahead of the curve in recognizing not only our place in the pecking order when he came in, but also where everything was going, and helped get us in the right spot to be ready when it all goes down.
I have to reluctantly agree.
Reluctantly, because I've feared they wouldn't be able to uphold admissions standards. But if they can do it and maintain quality, then there are certainly some advantages to size.
One data point worth mentioning here is that, for what it's worth, the average GPA of both our most recent applicant pool and the freshman class this year was 4.0. That's a pretty strong academic record. And, according to our director of admissions, the distribution of GPA is narrow. So these are high-achieving students.
The provost and the Faculty Senate (on which I serve) are continuing to evaluate our enrollment policies. We anticipate data collection and oversight to continue for three more years regarding our testing requirement, after which relevant bodies will make a decision as to the success of our holistic admissions process. We are approaching it scientifically and I can tell you that you should not expect the Faculty Senate to simply rubber stamp whatever Admissions wants. We ask hard questions and want data to back up the answers provided. So far, Admissions has done a nice job of working with us to understand how things are going. That will continue. We all want to preserve the academic integrity of Virginia Tech.
Frankly, I'm not sure what to think of that.
But if you say that the standards are high, and the students are performing at a high level, I'll accept that, and think no more on it.
Hell yeah - this is the inside baseball type of stuff that I really dig hearing about my alma mater. Makes me proud.
The disconnect is this:
You're saying that because there are more applications, then the admission standards weren't affected. That's the one data point you mentioned, as far as I can tell.
My point is that more applications (even twice as many) says nothing about admissions standards.
As much as I hate to admit it, we're sort of left taking admission officials word for it.
I'm not saying that at all. Where did I say that?
What I'm saying is that higher enrollment isn't inherently indicative of changed admission standards. Neither enrollment nor applications are indicative of admissions standards. It is possible to have the same standards and still significantly increase enrollment because there is a larger pool of applicants to choose from -- that's all I'm saying. If tech is attracting a higher number of qualified applicants, then it stands to reason that enrollment could increase without standards being affected one way or another. It's not "wishful thinking", it's math.
That's an assumption, and doesn't follow simply from "more applications".
That's the disconnect you were looking for.
.....................it's not an assumption, it's a suggestion. Reread the whole sentence
More applications is not more applicants - rather, it could (and does) mean that applicants are applying to more places than ever before.
Per Forbes, "There was also a 2% year-over-year increase in the number of unique applicants - those who submitted at least one application. On average, each unique applicant submitted 5.78 applications, a 9% increase over the 2019–20 rate"
Going back to the original point of this conversation - there's absolutely nothing suggesting that VT students are ruder due to relaxed admissions standards.
Yes, that's the point I was trying to make.
There were stories a few years ago where some of the US News rankings were based on selectivity, so some Ivy league universities were encouraging applications from people who had no chance of admission, in order to boost their rankings.
More applications didn't make them more selective. They just helped them in the selectivity rankings.
On the other hand more applications to virginia tech absolutely means more applicants to virginia tech
You haven't made a point. Aside from just shear numbers (x% of people are of questionable character), how has expansion impacted the character of the student body?
How so? By what measure were we assessing character that we've loosened up? By the admissions metrics, VT is more selective than ever.
Because the metrics have inflated while we've actually gotten worse at skills like math.
https://www.k12dive.com/news/act-study-finds-grade-inflation-in-high-sch...
My sister is 10 years younger than me and watching her go through school was crazy. She was basically allowed to retake any test an unlimited amount of times for full replacement. The high schools and individual teachers are incentivized to pass their students and give them good grades.
I have four kids that I know of. They range from 16 to 23. I can attest to this 100% and we live in Loudoun County, which for a long time had an excellent education based reputation. What I believe tjb is referencing is not the actual "bullet pointed" items that make up the assessment but rather the fact that the school has increased its enrollment significantly over the years and therefore the "guard rails" have widened, thus the "characters" aspects in general may have a lower bar if you will. It is surely an intangible, so it is more thought basis. My wife and I were talking about this theorized topic the other day.
Also, yes, I do think my generation of parents, in general, are assholes. The socio-cultural pressure of keeping up with the Jones', giving their kids everything, not requiring them to work, having to show everyone how awesome they are on social media, the "my kid is an angel" and does nothing wrong....I can go on and on, has led to a very non-aware, narcissistic attitude/outlook. The lack of "old school" parenting my generation received is sorely a miss in my assessment.
Stopped reading after the first sentence. Leg.
I don't disagree that there is grade inflation. But, I disagree that if VT admitted 30% less students that the 70% percent remaining would be of "higher character." What evidence do you have to support the "extra 30%" are the ones with more "questionable character"?
Bro do want me to scientifically define character? This entire thread is based on the premise of students are shittier in recent years and my proposal is expansion is a major cause. To me, kids that are worried about keeping a 4.0 in their stem classes seem less likely to be the kids chucking empty glass airplane bottles at the football game. It's all conjecture. Do you have a better proposal?
I have known many high achieving assholes who would chuck bottles into a crowd because they're entitled. Persons of shitty character are all across the GPA spectrum
Thank you!
You're basically arguing that intelligence is correlated to being a decent human being. I call bullshit.
If I showed you statistics of intelligence vs violent crime rates, could you refute that?
Pretty sure going down this road breaks the community guidelines.
One of the reasons I got out of academia - the level of basic competence in things like grammar dropped quite a bit from my first year teaching in 1998 until 2010. I had seniors that were Dean's List that consistently couldn't use your/you're/you are correctly.
And it isn't just VT - I have a stepdaughter that got an English degree elsewhere in 2019. She sent her Dad her senior thesis to copy edit. The amount of red on that paper was shocking when he finished.
She got a high A on the final product that he decided to mark up again - countless errors that would have made her paper a C in my era or her father's. Don't get me started that it made heavy use of Harry Potter themes.
I thought the 25k cap was a very good one for our campus in a state crammed full of choices for higher ed. The pool of quality students isn't unlimited as much as we push higher ed as essential in our culture.
Wow a primary source. Thanks for sharing.
I was a weirdo for wanting to a focus on undergraduate education. The press was hard on research, new grad programs. I'm on boards for grad program development and saying things like, "but these kids can't SPELL." The cognitive dissonance was just too much.
Not the student's fault though - they weren't arriving to campus prepared, somthing hard to convice senior faculty that were only teaching 4k and 5k level courses. There's a reason there is such a good homeschool network in my area - and they were often my best students at the private college where I was teaching after leaving VT.
So true. My dad's dad had an 8th grade education but probably had a better level of knowledge/schooling than many college graduates today. My parents pushed us to focus on core skills and analytical thinking. At work I see glaring grammatical errors and misspellings constantly-and not just in IMs or emails but in corporate communications both internal and external. Nothing inspires confidence in the competence of a company or person than a lack of attention to detail ....if you can't even SPELL things correctly, what else are you missing?
Also the inability to do basic math like making change, the ignorance of most to how statistics and percentages work, and the short attention spans of many today(kids and adults alike) does not bode well. I think someone else mentioned that too many folks exaggerate fear of things that are extremely unlikely, while things that are actually far greater dangers are blithely ignored.
I think a great deal of education is simply being widely read-not just USA today 'factoids' but in depth op-ed and articles, and the great classics as well. It builds vocabulary, exposes one to a large variety of ideas, and helps build the ability to think critically and independently, instead of blindly following the opinions trending on twitter or facebook or even the mainstream media.
At work my wife overheard two coworkers arguing about where Ukraine was and they settled that it was in Switzerland. These are two people with college degrees. College degree != intelligence.
Oh yeah-geography is one area that is even worse. When I was in high school, we had to fill in maps of the world with just the outlines of the country. Many people now struggle to know even the geography of their own country. I understand mixing up the relative positions of the Scandinavian countries, or things like Vermont/New Hampshire, etc. or the specifics of the Balkans after the breakup of Yugoslavia or the "stans" that came out of the breakup of the Soviet Union-but many folks couldn't find Afghanistan or Israel on a map despite those being in the center of world events for ages. For all the folks that talked about Darfur, most people were lucky if they could name the right continent, much less the country and where it is.
So what we are saying with this subthread is we are basically well on our way to idiocracy.
Sorry, but VT was super easy to get into when I was admitted and students didn't treat visiting fans (or even other Tech fans) like shit at football games.
I think it's a nationwide issue and not just a VT problem.
as a new parent to a young child, I'm learning quite a lot about parenting from books and experiences, and reflecting a lot on how I was parented, as well as considering how some of my nieces and nephews are parented.
I think it's a parenting issue, TBH. And I don't necessarily blame parents themselves. I think there are some cultural and societal aspects that contribute heavily to how American's parent their children (for better or for worse).
It's a parenting/breakdown of religion/institutions/community/societal_norms issue.
But parents are the most important of these elements, and because the other elements are weaker than they used to be, it's a real challenge for them. Particularly in a world where attention spans are down, and distractions are numerous.
I'd push back a little on the "breakdown of religion" piece of this statement. I have a complex relationship with religion myself and discussing it further probably goes beyond the CGs so I won't say much more about it other than I don't think it's a central part to any alleged degradation of societal norms.
I DO think that community, or lack thereof, is a big part of it. One could say that religion provides community and that is absolutely true. It is also true, however, that community can be built without religion - it is not necessary for community building.
Think that was inherent in his argument. Religion is just one of MANY entities (families, schools/religions, communities) that try (for better or worse) to impart some measure of civility and behavior guidelines.
The increasing tendencies from both ends of the political spectrum (in the last few years in particular) to polarize and to identify folks with different opinions than one's own as 'others'/'them' rather than acknowledge that for most issues there are more than one valid viewpoints with which one can 'agree to disagree' --cannot help but encourage uncivil and rude behavior among folks. (Sorry for that somewhat run-on sentence)
While everyone so far has been reasonable and measured in discussing this issue, I am locking this sub-thread as it obviously involves politics and religion, two big no-nos here and I don't need a firestorm of someone crashing into this with hot takes.
Parenting and child behavior- attitude always reflects leadership.
This isn't just a VT-issue. I've read about so many schools having these issues. Don't really know how to solve it to be honest.
I wish I could leg this more...
Makes me laugh whenever I see it.
My Rant on the Experience?
The changed the shuttle buses this year and they aren't as frequent and drop off in different places. The CRC shuttle bus now drops and picks up by Cassel instead of the South End Zone? That means you have to walk away from your cars to try and catch a bus that might run once per hour. We were 3/4 of the way back the 1.25 mile walk to the car when the shuttle bus passed us.
I am not sure what happened last night, but we got to gate 3 last night at 6:35. It took the normal 15 minutes to get to the scanner. At which point all motion stopped. It was packed to the gills under the stands with nobody apparently going to their seats. The police and event staff held us place in the hall between the scanners and the concourse for over 30 minutes. Eventually, after the cannon went off we were informed by police that we had to leave and go around to a different gate!!!
We had to go to gate 4, argue that we had already had our tickets scanned and that is why they weren't working. Then go back through the area they wouldn't let us walk through 5 minutes before to get to our seats.
I am not sure what happened, heard rumors of fights etc. But they need to be quicker about clearing things up when you have over 1,000 people trying to move along and just walked to their seats. For the second game in a row, because of bus screwups or gate mismanagement I missed Enter Sandman. This time I at least got the kickoff.
My wife and I were in our seats between sections 14 and 16 fifty minutes before kickoff. I don't know what was going on under the stands or on the concourse but people were coming up the portals of section 20, 18, & 16 and crawling over bleachers, chair backs, and people (including us) to get to their seats in sections 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. It was ridiculous.
Lol, you must be either above or below me. My seats are in both 14 and 16 as well. I have the three seats in the exact middle of the row covering both sections.
Yeah - something strange happened between section 16 and 18. We were trying to get in through gate 4 and were stuck between the gate and concourse for 30 minutes. I heard something about a cable falling, but never saw anything. Definitely not a safe situation with everyone trying to get in for enter sandman. Eventually had to leave the stadium and enter through another gate.
I think we need to change the student ticket experience. The way we have them up the side and around the top of the east stands is weird.
I would split the lower portion of that to the four corners (east and west stands). That way they have compete against each other for quadraphonic sound to annoy the other teams. Students love that crap. Make up names for each group, etc.
Thanks for posting.
I think this merits discussion, attention.
I haven't been to a game since pre-Covid, and was considering to take some fam, but I'm hesitant based on reports like this. Why pay for this experience?
We DID take an RV to Bristol for the VT/tenn game. Vol fan behavior was HORRIBLE (glass shards from thrown moonshine jars, watching a tenn fan PISS on the feet of a VT fan!!!, etc.)
Unfortunately, some of this is cultural, but that doesn't mean its excusable.
The team performance is beyond our control, but fan behavior and game experience should be fair game for the athletic department to aggressively fix.
I'd suggest sending feedback to Whit's office with specifics-they need to know and I think they are invested in improving game day experience.
I don't think it's all that bad. Especially based on individual accounts. I went to a game last year, sat high in the student side, nothing of note, kids being kids. Sure we have our share of idiots; I don't think it's indicative of some broad "kids are more of a danger than ever" panic.
I went to VT in the early 90s before we made it to the Independence bowl. Honestly, behavior could be pretty bad even then - throwing cups, pizza boxes and airplane bottles. But, I still think it needs to be improved today. General rowdiness is fine. Shoving people, cursing and spitting at people, general harassment (directed at individuals) of opposing fans - those are not ok.
Didn't we make it to the Independence Bowl in the 80's?
I think he means the start of the bowl streak in '93.
That was back before going 6-6 guaranteed a bowl game.
Like the 1983 Hokies who finished 9-2 and were left sitting at home for bowl season (and yes we made the Independence Bowl the next year in Bruce Smith's senior season in 1984).
This experience was why the Greenberg NCAA snubs seemed familiar.
I graduated in 2013 and I saw other students file out of the stadium by halftime in all my years... I honestly don't get it, especially on a Thursday night vs. Saturday night where the kids want to get to parties.
One of the main reasons why I wanted to go to tech was for the excitement of football games in the fall. Now its just they experience Sandman and then leave at halftime.
We're lucky we have the entrance and football tradition!
The team is in serious rebuild mode. It helps when you have the appearance of a chance to win. Was the result really in doubt at halftime? I'm probably one of the biggest optimists here, and having watched the first half I didn't think it was.
2 different issues here IMO: one is student engagement with sports, the other is behavior. I'm going to avoid discussing the latter because I feel pretty ignorant about it.
As far as engagement goes, I think 18-22 year olds today have come of age of social media, instant gratification, and content overload. I'm not saying that's bad thing, but it's very different from a lot of us. These kids have more options than just going to the game, and those options are constantly presented to them (via text message, social media, etc). This is a problem at every school - attendance is down big time.
I would also add that games are getting longer and longer due to TV breaks. It's fucking obnoxious when you're watching it on TV, but it's also kills the vibe in the stadium.
It was especially egregious last night in the stadium. The commercial breaks were getting longer and more frequent to fill an ESPN timeslot.
I echo your sentiments. Obnoxious behavior last night. Wife got shoved trying to go to the bathroom. Why is there just a constant massive unorganized blob of people congesting the concourse at all times? It doesn't matter when you go it's like people spend the whole game in the concession or restroom line.
I frankly just don't think there is enough adequate security to man the stadium. Just lack of organization and chaos. First game going back in four years and probably my last for a long time. It's just not what I remember as a student.
The west side was VERY unsafe because you could not move in the concession area. I can hold my own in a mob, but I was getting pushed and shoved quite a bit. I had to block out for an elderly alum to prevent them from falling. This has never been an issue before. The same was not true for the South endzone. What is going on this year? I did notice that they moved the location of the auction tables. Now they take up ~10 feet of valuable space and cause an even greater bottleneck. At a minimum, the auction tables need to be moved and concession lines should run parallel to the wall
Still not sure what happened under Section 16 last time. It was the worst I have seen in 18 years. If it happens again, I will be seriously considering cancelling my season tickets. I don't want to blame beer and other booths, but it isn't a good idea to be double stacking beer, drinks, memorabilia stands where people need to walk. They have greatly restricted the areas for getting by. They need to go away or be restricted.
I've heard from some teacher friends of mine that since COVID lockdowns ended, it appears that young people are just a bit off socially and behavior issues have escalated and haven't really come back down to former levels. I hate to sound like an old man yelling at clouds (I'm only 33) but young people are a different caliber than they were when I was in school (07-11). Could just be the changing of the times.
That being said, I didn't have any issues in West stands last night. It was a pretty good experience for me other than the game. I'll also add that the concessions seems to have been able to fix the issues causing long lines. I didn't have to wait that long to get hot dogs and I was able to refill my drink 3 times. The bathroom line on the other hand...
I am more convinced now than ever that we probably need to seriously consider enlarging the North End Zone for the sole purpose of containing the entire Student Section to it, and physically remove them from the rest of the fans.
Last year was a problem, this year is apparently worse. Its not getting better, and barring the school ramping up security measures, I think its going to eventually get so ugly that its going to actively keep boosters and the general public away from VT games.
I've been saying this for so long... just section off the students from the non-student fans. Don't let their behavior ruin it for the rest of fans there
At least in our immediate vicinity in Section 31 at the upper portal, the fans (from both sides) were engaged and respectful and loud. I did see the police go up to the top of the section twice and escort a drunk fan out of the stands.
Side note- what is the deal with our clock and video board folks this year? Multiple times with incorrect down and distance on the scoreboard; several times when the play clock didn't reset and/or wasn't started in time(and in most of those cases hurting the home team by giving more time for the WVU audience? And is it just me or should someone explain to them that "karaoke" means YOU PUT THE WORDS ON THE SCREEN!! Otherwise it's just a sing along not karaoke. Not sure who to address these concerns to but it's been consistently bad this year.
Side side note-wtf was the tuba section's point in coming up to section 31 only to play a half hearted few bars right before the end of the timeout? Myself and many of the fans around us - Mountaineers and Hokies alike- had the same thought-it looked LAME. It COULD have been cool if done better.
Ok one last rant and I'll stop-why can't they have at least one or two folks doing the tshirt toss come up to the upper levels so those higher up can have at least a CHANCE at getting one? Kinda hard to expect someone throwing from the field to get one thrown 80 rows up(and if they can, maybe they should stop by Pry's office about a job)
Lmao, I think I may have been nearby and I don't recall the tuba section randomly coming up. I do remember a WVU fan complaining to police that a VT fan had struck her in the head, then no one around being able to corroborate the claim, then the accused's wife getting into it with said WVU fan. Also saw a WVU fan go out on a stretcher with some apparent head injury (thought it was from this punching incident but unrelated).
My summary from being there and reading all of this was this game was an enormous cluster. I will say generally most folks in my vicinity were also loud cheering and engaged in the game.
FWIW- this last game they were at he Section 33 portal and it did sound a LITTLE better.
We were in section 29. Had no issues getting into the stadium or getting to our seats (we were seated 57 minutes before kickoff). I will say the students were frequently crossing all over the sections adjacent to the student section to get to and from, not really sure why and it was really annoying. I saw several things thrown from the upper parts of the student section, biggest thing was them tearing apart those pom-poms. They were very disengaged throughout and (as I said in the Rant thread) leaving in droves at half time. Piss poor.
Was it just me, or were the MVs quieter than usual? I didn't hear them very much at all throughout the game, even later when the crowd was low when we were getting whooped. Also the scoreboard is very poorly run. They put up the "SAFETY" animation after our field goal, down and distance constantly wrong. WHERE DID THE TURKEY GOBBLE ON THIRD DOWN GO????? Last rant about the experience, I have never seen so few people jumping during Sandman in East stands than last night. It was loud but no where near what I expected for a bitter rival, Thursday night sellout.
I noticed this too... I think the fans/students are so addicted to social media where they have to record everything, and in exchange, don't jump and enjoy the experience. First world problems, I get it, but it is very annoying and always gets a eye roll from me when watching on TV
The student sections looked to be rocking pretty hard.
For other parts of the stadium, it looked like they were engaged initially, but not for the whole song.
I'm OK with some folks recording it, but if more than half are recording it, there's nothing to record.
I'm gonna have a "get off my lawn" moment ("I'm a man! I'm 40!")
I think since Covid, and it was already starting to happen before then, people have just forgotten (or never learned) how to not be dicks to other people. I've not been to a game in a few years at Lane, but all my friends that have that I've talked to relate tales just like yours about our fans behavior towards each other.
I would not be surprised in the least that almost every other program has similar stories about that trend in Gameday behavior, and it's not just the students
Pre-Covid, I went to a game at FSU. There were relatively few VT fans there, but their fans were all good-natured and respectful, even after VT won. (Though many filed out at half time and after the third quarter.)
At the time I thought, this is how fans who've won championships behave.
May be different now that they've had years of mediocre football, but I was pretty impressed at the time.
I know it was last weeks game, but had no issues with the gameday experience. I liked a lot of the things that Bailey Angle did that allowed more interaction during tv timeouts and other breaks in the game. What I did have issues with was the student section being gone in the second half. They need to create something that rewards students that stay. Also, I know they made student seating general admission to try and make it look better/fuller, but I enjoyed the assigned seats when I was there 04-10. The new fence they put up around the student section just seems like it was done with little thought and hasn't completely fixed the issues they thought it would fix.
As long as we're talking about Lane, can I ask a favor of the maintenance staff. Or grounds crew staff. Hell, I don't know, just whoever is in charge of Lane operations....
Put the damn stripes back on the walls. Yes, the stripes. The maroon and orange stripe that we had ringing the top of the walls going back to at least the 90s, possibly earlier, that was inexplicably removed in 2017. Just something about the stadium nowadays that feels bland and hollow, and putting them back would at least help make it feel like VT football again, and not some bland shell of what it used to be.
vs this crap:
Wow I never noticed that. You are right, the stripes look much better.
I was hoping when they took the stripes off they were going to put Hokie Stone up on the walls, but that didn't materialize. It does look a little bland right now though.
cosigned. Take the stripes off the jerseys and put them back on the stadium where they belong
Or at least off the helmets. The whole vibe is off.
The good news is the stripes were removed from the helmets this year, at least the Fuente stripes. The maroon lids are plain and the white ones have a stripe reminiscent of the stripe on the white helmets that we wore with throwbacks with Tyrod, just thinner
I've been on the east side 25 yd line (towards the SEZ) for years and never have an issue. The atmosphere yesterday at kickoff was close to as good as it gets near me. I also can bring my 3 year old through to halftime for the last 2 years.
It may really just be a proximity to students thing, but the game experience, to me? Still solid and I found a few secret wifi spots too this year.
I didn't get even a hint of a bar of service..... until the mass exodus of students(and some non-student fans as well) after halftime- then I got up to two bars- just before 10 pm.
I don't want to pretend to be a social expert or anything, but here's my thinking related to the post...
Our society as a whole is in a moment of vitriol, toxicity and generally lacking in mutual respect for humankind. Our leaders and representatives do not speak about the "others" with any sort of dignity or respect, it's all mostly vitriolic in tone. That filters down to the news media, through our universities and into every nuance of our communities. There are certainly exceptions, but in the end the moment in which we live is not one that can be defined by dignity and respect.
It seems to me that 18-22 year olds, college students in particular, are being swallowed up by the type of mentality where general dignity and respect for other human beings isn't important. Everything in our society is about "me", "my" and "mine" (or those like me).
I'm obviously making a gross generalization, but it is one worth considering since this does seem to be a trend at a broader level. How do we solve it? I'm not sure. Collective effort towards something though.
Can't be mad at the students for leaving early. There wasn't enough alcohol in Lane last night to keep me plugged into the game. I turned it off at home midway through the 3rd. I can handle Tech losing, but I can't handle them looking like idiots when they do so.
Y'all haven't mentioned how fricking cold it was. Students were all dressed like college students wearing what students wear with no jackets. It was cold and that led to the low energy and people leaving at half. We were hatted and jacketed up by half. Wind chill was in the 40's.
True it was cold-guess the education level of our students has dropped from those of us who graduated in the past- even a brief glance at the forecast was sufficient for me to plan ahead to start out with short sleeves for the tailgate(mid 70s temp), add a long sleeve shirt for kickoff(mid 60s temp) and add a sweatshirt at halftime when it dropped to mid 50s and wind really picked up. It was chilly but way better than the UVA game a few years ago(2016 maybe?) where it was 26 at game time and 20 by end of the game and wind chill was at or below zero.
True, I brought a sweatshirt to don later in the game, but Mom (82) didn't bring enough layers so I put my sweatshirt on her. I was glad for the walk back to the car after the game. I was moving more and walking with the wind.
What are they supposed to stick around for? The team sucks. It just does. 7 points at the half against a terrible WV defense. This generation of college students of seniors has had 4 dog shit years of football. Tots, Sharkeys, and house parties sound a hell of a lot better than watching a flag thrown every other play for the home team. They don't know what the rivalry is or was with WV because we schedule ODU and Liberty now instead of WVU every year.
Another theory to consider, the school size has also grown, thus cramming more and more students in the student sections than years before. While it probably isn't supposed to be that way, the students are going to want to sit with other students and they will get there to sit with their friends in the NEZ. You can thank Sands for growing the university size too large and too fast. Does that mean they get to act like assholes? No, but it doesn't help things with extra students involved, growing the mob mentality of being drunk and bored watching a boring team. Maybe the school and town should allow Center Street parties again so they can get it out of their system before the game.
Kinda /s on the last sentence...
Based on my attendance at the three home games so far this season and the previous 6 years of season tickets (where we've attended almost 100% of the games), some of the issues are not new while some are.
I'm sure that things seem worse because of the last several years of bad teams playing bad football, but the Athletic Department needs to own that the actual game experience is not good and they need to bring in an outside consultant to fix things. The people in house just don't know how to do it.
One of the best games I've attended in recent memory was Furman (maybe Rhode Island) last year when the scoreboard broke. No announcers, no stupid gimmicks, no music, just watching football being played. It was awesome.
Great observations.
If you are going to engage the crowd, engage it. If you're not, just let there be silence or some music.
Normally, I don't do much in the way of concessions, but I had to during the Wofford game. The 11 am kickoff ran the game through all acceptable lunch times, and I had a 9 year old with me. I just wanted to get a couple of hot dogs and drinks, so I was looking for the generic concession stands. I found one somewhere in the middle of the West stands, but the line stretched so far back, I don't know if there was an end. I gave up when it reached the end zone area.
So we turned around and were going to shift gears and get pizza, but then I noticed as I got in the extremely short line at the pizza place that they sold hot dogs too.
Maybe the bigger issue is having the specialized concession stands. Just keep a basic consistent menu at all of them.
That's TV for us, and not much can be done with that. At least now the red shirt guy holds a board with a countdown on it, so you know how long the break is. But there was definitely one point last week where we had a TV timeout, punt, and another TV timeout.
That being said, the length of the games actually isn't that bad this year. BC was 3:06, and Wofford finished in under 3 hours. WVU went a little over 3:20. Well, the ODU game ran over 4 hours, but that's because of shitty elevators.
It was Richmond.
Yea, I'm sure there's nothing that VT can do about it because of the media deal, but it just FEELS like they're getting longer because of ridiculous things like what you pointed you.
Richmond...whoops. It was glorious.
One thing I was reminded of watching Florida/Tennessee yesterday -- while ESPN can be bad about stretching out games (especially primetime), I don't know if anyone can top CBS's SEC game of the week. How did they manage to stretch that game to a full 4 hours?
Tons of flags late in that game. I think there were 3 false starts / offsides in a row in the 4th quarter and even the announcers were saying it was ridiculous
3. I pretty sure the announcing guy is bailey Angle. My brother doesn't like him too and during the Pittsburgh game last year he came on the big screen when tech was getting whooped and my brother goes SHUT UP BAILEY😂 but he's a trooper about it. I told him that and he laugh his ass off and said yeah alot people get tired of it when tech is getting killed😂
I know he's got the short end of the stick and is just doing what he's told, but man, has it been frustrating to be sitting in the stands while the team is playing like crap and his face pops up on the jumbotron to do another stupid gimmick.
Right on with cut all the in game music/games/video BS. I used to enjoy the sound of the game as played, pads popping et al. But that was many decades ago. Close the concessions. Bring back the coke, popcorn and hotdog vendors climbing the stands for cash. "Coke heeere!!! The universal mixer!!!"
Not necessarily close ALL the concessions but yes bring back vendors in the stands as an addition. It might shorten the lines at the concession stands too. I have never bought things from the concession stands other than prior to kickoff because I'm not gonna miss that much time watching the action on the field .... which is after all the REASON for the game.
5. Concession lines - This was my first game since before COVID. So, I don't know how it has been. But I noticed that instead of making multiple lines in front of each respective register people were making one stupid long line and then splitting to registers when they were next in line. It got a little better later in the game, but it's like we forgot how to do simple shit like queuing for concessions.
This reminds me of the latest progressive commercial with line monitor dude.
I could not find the exact gif so this one with have to do.
FTFY
Seriously the media timeouts seemed ridiculously long Saturday. May be great for home TV viewers who end up with time to go to the bathroom (and clean their houses...and do their taxes) before the game restarts, but it sucks for the fans in the stands.
And there were multiple times where media timeouts came 3-4 minutes apart in real-time too.
And wtf were they doing trying to get the crowd yelling and making noise 3 seconds AFTER the "demonic red shirted media guy" walked onto the field for the billionth time?
(Stepping off my soapbox now)-I'll still be there screaming my lungs out for GT and UVA games next month.
I timed the game and it was about 3:10 from kickoff to final whistle. That said, there was A LOT of dead time, especially in the first half and I don't think there's any reason why the game couldn't have been 2:45 or even better. Couple of frustrating points:
The flip side of it is that broadcasting money drives revenue and broadcasters like to make that money back by selling more advertising time 🤷♂️
Does anyone need this in this day and age where virtually everyone can rewind the game a few minutes to catch anything they may have missed? It's called a pee pause. And unless you're my mom with the most basic of cable there is, you're likely able to do it.
Sorry- I shoulda added the /s lol. (hence the 'clean the house' and 'do your taxes' additions)
Didn't think the overall statement was /s, but knew those examples were.
Why pause when you can watch on you phone while you pee like I do.
Students haven't been as much of a problem for us as some of the Hokies adult "fans." The beer sales in Lane help fuel some of this. Too many spills and bottles all around aside from the behaviors.
We have been to the BC and WVU games this season. Not very family friendly. From here on out, I will be very selective on what sections we sit in.
Here's what I want:
Blanket high res camera coverage of problem sections.
Review footage after every game for conduct violations
Cancel tickets for any offenders
Other punishments as necessary
It's unreasonable to expect security to control 67,000 fans. It's not unreasonable to call up assholes after the fact and let them know their tickets are being given away because they violated conduct policy
Seems pretty "big brother-y". Not that I disagree or that something like this wouldn't help. I would just feel weird knowing I potentially had cameras on me throughout a game.
Shouldn't be a problem if you are a respectful attendee! Unless you pick your nose a lot or something.
Yeah that fails to disquiet me. The stadium has a vested interest in improving the overall experience. People spend hours and hours of their lives on moderated platforms where behavior is surveilled and punished to keep bad apples from ruining it for everyone else. If that's what it takes, go for it. The rules already exist, they just aren't enforced. Fix that.
Welcome to our world.
There are more and more cameras everywhere.
But I prefer that to people getting hit in the head with a bottle. That crap is not acceptable.
This is already the reality.
yeah, see double birds guy with the immediate regret at last weeks game
Good point.
Yeah, I mean the reality we have right now is that the second you step foot outside your home, assume you are being recorded. Between doorbell cams, dash cams, security cameras, and general cell phone use, you're being recorded all day every day, and all of it is available to law enforcement via court order. Privacy is dead.
That would probably be the end of in-person games for me. Too much surveillance everywhere as it is.
It just feels a lot like a lot of people - especially young people - forgot how to interact in public after the pandemic shutdowns.
We were sitting in section 5 about 10 rows below the student section and next to the overflow students. I brought my 11 year-old son and he said afterwards that he heard more F-words during that game than he has heard the rest of his life. He had beer spilled on him by drunk fans. There was a VT fan in front of us grinding on his WV girlfriend. Bottles and cans were thrown over our head multiple times and a guy two rows up was hit. I will definitely not be sitting anywhere near the student section ever again. Last year versus UNC was much better but we sat on the West stands away from students.
None of this sounds like anything I want to be a part of, let alone driving 5 hours and spending 1.5 to 2K for that weekend.
Which is unfortunate. Our season tickets are in Section 9 and we had numerous WVU fans around us and everyone was great to deal with. We traded barbs back and forth but it was in good fun.
This is all part of the society that we live in now.
We need to insist on better.
And on changing the decisions that are pushing us in this direction.
That said, in spite of all the nonsense, there has never been a better/safer/more comfortable time (in general) to be alive.
We hit the right window, because it's probably all downhill from here.
I really hope someone up top sees this thread somehow. All of these ideas are gold.
We witnessed a wasted college aged kid get into a fight with his mom on the way out of the stadium. Looked like he was getting heckled by WVU fans and was trying to act tough while is mom was trying to get him out of the stands. He shoved her into the railing by the portals and then punched the cement wall going down the ramp. Never seen anything like at a game before.
Wow...just wow. I will say I think the general intoxication level seemed off the charts higher than I remember back in the day. I'm starting to wonder if the team struggling for so long plus alcohol sales in the stadium are a great combination.
There should be a limit to how much alcohol you can purchase in the stadium. Make it reasonable for those that choose not to tailgate for 10 hours before a game, 2-3 drinks maybe? I don't know how they could track that, but at concerts and stuff, if you're trying to buy alcohol, you get a wristband as you enter the venue. I don't know how you scale that up to assist 60k+ fans when they are already struggling to get mobile tickets scanned, but I'm sure they could, and it would save time at the concessioner's not needing to ID people.
I think there's a sense in which the Lane experience, and fanbase in general are just kind of running on fumes. It's like a bounced check that the bank hasn't flagged yet. As others have pointed out, the student section looks bored on tv, people are leaving at halftime when it was a close game against a rival, etc. I think this is all to be expected, and is a reflection of where our program is, to be frank.
A lot of these kids have barely been alive, let alone old enough to know Tech as a dominant force in college football. Their excitement, and the fanbase's excitement on whole, is mostly manufactured and handed down from another time. There is a LOT of memory of the old days still in our fanbase from those of us that have been around longer, and that passion is enough to carry us a lot of times and (for example) get butts in the seats at 11am for Wofford. Everyone knows about and loves Enter Sandman. The students want to be there for that, and jump, and be excited. It's just that, there's not much money in the bank account right now to back that check up. Our reputation from bygone days is carrying us.
Fan excitement right now is wide, but shallow. If Pry can turn things around, in a few years when we are a good football team, contending in games that mean something, I think the fanbase and game atmosphere will once again reflect that, and the reality of Tech football will catch back up with its reputation. Enter Sandman is great, but I can't wait for it to no longer be the best part of gameday.
We witnessed some obnoxious student behavior, but it was a group of 20-somethings in the upper part of section 31 who made it the worst game experience of my life. A group of WVU and VT "fans" who knew each other drove everyone else out of our area. None of them seemed to be particularly interested in the game. All were extraordinarily immature and rude. Why do they come to the game, and why do they insist on ruining it for everyone else? There was absolutely no game atmosphere up there.
Our seats are on south side of 31 right at the railing on the portal. Did see cops go up above twice to escort someone out. Fortunately, the area around us was fine even with WVU fans mixed in. Good natured ribbing but very little profanity and no fights. Even acknowledgements from both sides when the other teams made a good play.
What is worse is that half the police there are present for the paycheck alone. I have heard tales of a couple people that get punched without cause in front of the police. They turned to police and asked if they were going to do anything only to be told, not my problem not my jurisdiction. What is the point of their presence if they aren't willing to do anything.
I mentioned this after the BC game. Student behavior is unacceptable. We shouldn't throw beer bottles at all, much less at our own fans. At WVU, we sat closer to the WVU section, surrounded by a lot of their fans. It was a better experience. Their fans had more respect. Eventually a Tech student came over to be with his mom in front of us. Threw something almost immediately. Then, after the pick six, threw a bottle again. My brother grabbed him by the shoulder and told him that we don't do that crap here. He immediately left, looking as if he was about to piss his pants, with Tech alumni cheering his departure.
The security needs to get a handle on this. It's out of hand. I won't bring my kids to East stands and I shouldn't feel better about sitting near WVU fans.
Pretty sad when the visiting fans are better behaved than the home fans.
Particularly since we are talking about WVU. I really hope we don't get a bad rep for things like this, hoping they can do something about it. I don't want to be known as a place where visiting fans are unwelcome.
an upgrade to Lane Stadium Wireless Service perhaps? Link:
Beamer Way transportation impacts: Lane Stadium distributed antenna system upgrades
We're down in section 1 with the student section behind us. We love it and that's why we get the seats that we do, but sometimes they can be a bit much. Someone above us through a full bottle of an unknown substance that hit me in the arm and I still have a bruise decent sized bruise from it. Was that really necessary?
Hearing all these things about thrown items makes me glad that I am on the west side where I just have to worry about drunk alumni and fans swearing 90% of the time.
or people telling you to sit down/never stand up all the time... those fans are the WORST.
I am not advocating fans to stand up all the time, especailly if you're on the west side where most older/donor/alumni fans are, but the expectation I can't stand up and yell on 3rd down? fuck that... stay at home and watch the game there if you want to sit down the whole game.
This is why we picked the seats that we did. We have the wall and a walkway behind us, so there is no one to be upset if we're standing the entire game. We also seem to be surrounded by others that are more recent grads (think the last 10-15 years or so) than you'll find on the west side and haven't forgotten the early 2000's in Lane and how to make noise without bothering your neighbor. So it's not all bad, I would just prefer to leave the battery-with-a-full-bottle part out of the experience all together.
Us too. Our seats are lower to middle section 31- most of us in the area we're in stand for a lot of the game and no yells for us to sit down.
Mom is 82 and still wants to come to the games and cheer the team. She can't stand the whole game anymore and does need to sit. She bounces for enter sandman and then sits down. Pops up for the big plays when she can. West side is definitely the better side for her.
But she never complains if the people in front of her are standing, just shifts her head so she can see the big screen.
yea that's totally fair to ask someone to sit down occasionally so they can see the game, whether they are 82 or younger, or can't stand all the time like your mom... I've had experience on West side where god forbid you stood up a couple times during the game (like 3r/4th down, etc) , I was yelled to sit down... I can't wait until those kinda fans die off/never come to games anymore.
Had words with the people behind us for the second time this year due to them constantly telling us to sit down. I was two rows below them and eventually moved to three rows down and sat with some WVU fans just to avoid a conflict. One of the guys in our group finally had enough and we all exchanged some words. It was a shitty situation that we probably didn't help, but I get tired of being told to sit down like a kid on key plays. We've been sitting in the same seats for around 10 years, and this seems to happen every few.
Yeah, pretty understood that at a college football game, you are standing unless there is a stoppage in play. Everywhere but heinz field, duke, etc. You are standing all game. Watch any SEC game on TV- everyone is standing. I can never sit in Lane. I am on the west side - section 4 great seats, and everyone in front of me is standing up. It's as much a part of the game as cheerleaders etc. Just the way it is.
And I'm glad that's the way it is. Shows the fans are engaged in the game. Who else was at the first game we played at Notre Dame where the 10-16k Hokie fans were WAY louder than the 50-60k Notre Dame fans? Same at Lane North, Lane South and Lane Southeast.
Present and accounted for. I will also say, I am not sure if it was because the ND fans expected to lose or not, but they were some of the nicest people I have ever met.
Sounds as though the East stands are shit. I'm to the point that of I spend money to go to a game I'm getting West stand tickets. Never have a problem on the west side.
Other than the massive fight that apparently broke out under Section 16 that delayed entrance for at least 45 minutes last game. Really hoping that was a one time thing.
I've heard about this on via the grapevine? Any other news?
Nope. Not here.
Sad to say, we had our worst Lane Stadium experience ever under the West Stands an hour before kickoff.
So many people that no one could move in any direction voluntarily. In the middle of it, concessions workers trying to force warming cabinets through the mob like they were pushing through brush. It was a dangerous situation and took an hour to get out of it. People were having panic attacks, pushing, yelling, my wife was crying and it was complete chaos. Police were there but just watching and did nothing. Finally they stopped letting people in through Gate 4, about 45 minutes too late. We ended up having to exit through Gate 4 to get out of the immovable mob and then reenter through Gate 3. Just made kickoff.
So to review, entered through Gate 6 at 6:30 pm, exited through Gate 4 and reentered through Gate 3 just at the 7:30 pm kickoff. We were still in some shock when we got to our seats and were disinterested in the game after that experience. The only reason we stayed for the game was because others were riding with us that were sitting elsewhere.
I've been coming to Lane for over 30 years. Not my first bad experience but by far the worst. We vowed never to return in the moment and still may never go back. I bleed orange and maroon but we paid money and took off work for that.
In addition to Blacksburg Fire Marshall, does anyone know a great contact to communicate this experience to?
Whit Babcock?
Sent to Whit's public email as well as Blacksburg Fire Marshall. I imagine Whit's HokieAD email gets flooded so not sure who monitors it and how long it takes them to get through the emails if they ever do. If anyone knows a better alternative, let me know.
there was some kind of incident keeping folks from being able to move from that area to their seats on the sound end of the west stands. that's why the crowd piled up. unfortunately there's only been message board posts about it, no official explanation.
Local fire officials have no enforcement ability on state property. Would have to be state fire marshal and they defer to university officials for most things.
Thank you, relayed to the state fire marshal.
Haven't been to a game at Lane since 1996 (a win vs. Pitt), and attended games pretty regularly from 1981-1996. Never recall any big problems at all at games, but then again, that was before alcohol was sold, but it wasn't like fans weren't getting any alcohol before or during the game. After that, my Dad and I got season tickets to the Ravens in 1996, still have them to this day, and never experienced any problems worth noting, except for a few opposing fans who would get a little too obnoxious and were eventually told to leave. So that being said, I don't know if it is a college thing, an alcohol thing, a little of both, or neither. Pretty sad, though, if it has gotten that bad at Lane.
Kids are just fucking nasty nowadays and I say this as a 26 year old who isn't far removed from these these aged students
Result of a fast-paced, hyper-competitive environment. Keeping up with the Jones' mentality, materiality, instant gratification. No wonder 80's music and trends are so popular now. The decade of materiality.
I think thats an over-simplistic view of thing (imho).
The current college generation grew up knowing nothing but a post-911, dual recession world. Their parents were probably more cash strapped than any previous generation. The world changed and they coped with it the best way they knew how.
They also grew up not nearly as ignorant as my generation and generations before. Hell, I grew up with my school celebrating Lee-Jackson-King day, and it wasn't immediately apparent how absolutely screwed up that is. The internet, in addition to making dumb people dumber, also made everyone else more aware of the world around them. I'm also missing a TON of variables, geographic variations, and variations in economic status and upbringing.
Kids are what they are today because of what the previous generations unknowingly set upon them. Its a collective problem and collective solution.
That's probably a better way to look at it. It's just a here for a good time not a long time mentality mixed with drugs and alcohol being waaaay less stigmatized
When I moved to Virginia to attend Tech, I was blindsided by Lee - Jackson - King day and had to ask how the HECK had that been started. I am glad that Virginia finally did separate them. (Still not sure we need the Lee - Jackson but that could be the Northerner in me).
Lee Jackson Day got dumped about 2 years ago as a state holiday. As a state employee, I was a little sad to lose a 4 day weekend, but they gave us Election Day as a replacement so I much prefer that.
Eh, basic manners and respect for others is a you problem not a we problem. These shitheads need to be held accountable for being assholes. Period.
Disagree. I see a-holes of all ages. Some people grow out of it, some don't.
They aren't a-holes b/c they're Gen Z, they're a-holes because they act like it and their parents didn't teach them better. There were drunk douches at games when I was a student, but I didn't care as much because I probably wasn't the best or the worst of the problem.
Don't misunderstand me, I have no qualms about throwing their butts out of a game for being jerks. I just get especially annoyed at the idea that any particular generation is better or worse as a whole, or just generational generalizations.
Very well said! There is no need to keep shitting on Gen Z because they are Gen Z, when not too long ago, boomers were shitting on millennials and creating resentment. There are entitled, disrespectful jerks in every generation, not just Gen Z. This isn't a new problem, I just think we're just more vocal in complaining about it now.
While GenX is sitting in the corner, grumbling below their breath about the other generations, hoping they continue to not notice us.
Yep, Gen X here and can confirm. Although I don't like the sitting in the corner part, reminds me too much of Jerry Jr.
Generation X- the middle child with all the jokes!
I'm not quite a GenX, but apparently a "geriatric millennial"
millennials somehow went from getting shit on by boomers to now getting shit on by everyone
y'all leave us alone ffs
I've never really understood generational slander. Especially when one generation is slandering the generation they LITERALLY RAISED!
But, you know, painting with broad strokes and all. I just don't get it. There are problems. There have always been problems. There will always be problems. Ain't no single generation gonna cause or solve any problems by themselves. Blaming generations for things is just plain lazy.
Source??? not recent commentator but .... Aristotle!!
Thus has it always been and sadly likely always will be. After all didn't every Scooby Doo villain say "And I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!" LOL
I'm obviously not at the game but in general it seems like 3 main areas of concern. Stadium Management, Student Behaviour, Engagement.
There is one thing that can help with each of these issues tremendously. It's called WIFI.
Hear me out.
Stadium Management: Obviously there are things, like the scoreboard showing the wrong animations etc, that is just people error and should be fixed. But others, like concessions and crowd control can be massively improved with a smart Stadium. For example, why wait in line for concessions? when you can order from a menu off a QR code on the seat and have it delivered to you. Or how about, notices of wait times at bathrooms. I know, genius. Could also do at Gates before the game so you know which ones are most busy. All on a convenient Lane Stadium App.
Student Behaviour and Engagement: I am bucketing these two together because they relate to the same root cause IMO. One of the most fascinating social impacts that I have been reading about is the dramatic shift in how young people consume media since 2017 and it all stemmed from the Adpocolypse on YouTube. Once that happened media consumption for youth got formatted into new analytics like RPM which drive how content is created and thus absorbed. For the first time ever you could see what is consumed more highly compared to millions of other content and see it get rewarded. Once ad revenue payments start then what content is getting made, how long content is and most importantly what retention rate you have on that content is. Like Neilsens on steroids.
The students of today just started high school when this happened and now these same consumers are going to games that are hours long with commercial timeouts delaying play in a stadium with shit wifi. To me this is the route cause. not covid. I think covid is an excuse. It wasn't that long of time for people to immediately lose their social behavior skills.
Now with better wifi and a smart Stadium, you get better crowd control, less lines which should help behavior of anyone stuck in crowds including students. But it also means you can include engagement that appeals to them through their phone. Like mini-games during the game. Best Insta-post. Live Selfi Cam on the big screen streamed through phone cameras. Giveaways. live polls etc. etc. etc. Short bursts of engagement that they have been conditioned to consume at extremely high volumes.
It will also dramatically increase the amount of ad revenue Lane could get during games.
Invest in Lane and Invent the fucking future of Stadium Management and I will put money on it drastically improving GameDay experience for everyone.
Edit. forgot to add the part about the social impacts on behavior. Basically its looking at how post Adpocolypse there has been significant increases of toxic mob mentality when crowds are faced with consumption that doesn't fit their expectations. Negative comment bombing online is exasperated post Adpocolypse for example. But this also applies to social behavior when absorbing live content that doesn't follow the algorithm their brain is wired to. And hence poor social behavior at things like sports games that do not have high engagement. throw in kids that have their first freedom from parents with access to alcohol, sex and drugs and you have a shitstorm on your hands. So either you try to bottle it up and minimize it, or you provide the engagement they expect and leverage it for profit. Personally, I prefer to make money off them rather than try to minimize poor behavior.
I love the idea of better wifi and smart stadium. Throw in a few cameras, while you're at it. Set that up. I'll donate directly to it.
But at the end of the day, it's a football game. THAT's the entertainment. So I wouldn't want stuff on the game board competing with that. It already bugs me that people are filming Enter Sandman instead of jumping.
A little social media is fine. Maybe a little bit of personal cams/instaposts during halftime. But not so much during the game. Maybe a monitored simulcast run by students, available on the web.
Put most of the interaction on their phones and use the video board during timeouts, media breaks, etc. like they already do.
Exactly.
Put some structure to it.
Mostly, invent the wifi.
Excuse me, sir. But we don't do that anymore. /S but also not /S
What is our new tagline now? We invented the future, and now here we are! Paradise! /s
I have never felt so old as I do after reading this thread. What happened to going to the game with your buds and having a great time watching the Hokies? I don't understand the fascination with playing with a cell phone constantly or needing to see yourself on the video screen. I am old and in the way, obviously, but I don't think these are good changes we're talking about. We don't need a smarter stadium, we just need a better team to attract and engage more fans. I don't think it's generational, I think it's the inordinate need to shape every experience to suit the desires of the technologically fixated, regardless of age. Yeah, get off my damn lawn.
This sort of reminds me of "Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance", where the author talks about people not being present where they are.
And that was written I believe in the 1970's. They had no freaking idea.
If I cease to continue with season tickets next year it will not be the team's fault. It will 💯 be the clusterfuck that has become the Lane Stadium experience.
Do tell...
They shut all of the west side gates for 15 minutes before kickoff. No explanation what's so ever. LancerHokie and I missed all of the pregame stuff. I am 100% calling the ticket office Monday to bitch.
Listened on the radio and heard there was a big exodus of students at the half. And speculation if they would return. Did they return for what sounded like a better 2nd half?
It was homecoming. LOL. No.
Sounds like every homecoming game when I was a student. 🤷♀️
Nope. Worse
It was a complete disaster. We have never missed Sandman until today. I was pissed off. We had friends at the game and they were disappointed to miss all the pregame stuff too.
We were pissed too. It was a total shit show and for no apparent reason. I've never missed sandman before today and we all left with plenty of time to get inside and to our seats without issue. Someone at the ticket office is going to get an earful on Monday.
I have a feeling they will be getting a lot of unhappy phone calls and emails.
Okidoke. Seeing as how as me my dad were two people from getting in prior to them shutting those gates, and likely would've gotten in had the drunk asses in front of us been able to put their phones in the correct place...feel like I have a good reason to explain/vent.
So, after leaving our tailgate an hour prior to kickoff (which worked well with BC and beautifully with WVU), it was very backed up at this gate. Slow moving, we get to the gate with 10mins to spare. Gates close. The troopers/people in charge come close shit down pointing the massive crowd backed up trying to get under the west side. It simply wasn't moving. I imagine that's a fire marshall kind of issue, but wtf...if the stadium's full, not like you can get out any better. Idk. Infuriating, but what can ya do.
I emailed Blacksburg Fire Marshall, VA State Fire Marshall and HokieAD after our nightmare at the West Virginia game. No one ever responded ...
They won't. They can't respond to every submission they receive. They will take your complaint and look into it, but you won't get a response.
Everything everyone has said below. But I will also add the fact that I missed roughly an entire quarter in addition to what we missed because of the gate clusterfuck in two trips to the concession stand. Damned lines were moving like pond water.
I asked the staff lady I saw at gate 3 on the way out what the deal was with them closing the gate. She fed me some bullshit about the concourse being overcrowded when the Corps was trying to enter. Sounds like a bullshit excuse, but even if that was the case, if the gates weren't such a fucking clusterfuck everyone wouldn't be crowded in the same part of the concourse all at once.
It's time to face the fact that the great paperless ticket experiment is and will continue to be a failure until we have the goddamned infrastructure to support it.
Only 'plus side' to that is the bathroom lines are shorter 'cause everyone is waiting in concession lines instead.
This gets a "meh" from me. There's never a line for the men's room where I sit anyway.
...or the ladies' for that matter.
Homecoming week game is always the best attended game followed by mass exodus by the frat/sorority demographic because they all want to be there for the announcement of homecoming king and queen at half, then leave.
Just there for the 'gram and clout. It's unfortunate but oh well
(Edit: meant to reply to Jawjahokie)
So much has changed about student life I'm kind of surprised Greeks still have that much of a presence. I watched the percentage of greek students drop a bunch during my time teaching there. Assumed the trend had continued.
Let's not discount that we were down by 20 at the half and had 106 totally yards to Miami's 302. It looked like we were gonna get destroyed, especially with our history of not making good halftime adjustments.
But yes, homecoming is always a LOL crowd. Always has been.
As a hardcore frat guy back in the mid 2000s, we only left when we were up by 40 over JMU.
Virginia Tech HATES fraternities and there are a lot less of them now. No need to blame it on the Greek life, it's the students in general.
But then again, what do they have to stay for? The first half was god awful. The team sucks. Tots is more fun than sitting there watching Wells get sacked over and over.
Went to every home game 2010-2014 (literally not figuratively). There was always an exodus after halftime for homecoming, no matter the score or opponent, because of the frats and sororities.
Not going to address the VT vs. Greek life debate, as a) CG's and b) it won't be productive.
Sorry you feel that way.
A quick search shows me Greek life currently makes up 19-20% of the student population, which blows my mind. It was 13% in mid 2000s.
Given that number, and all of us old farts up in arms over students leaving at halftime, does 20% of the fans in the north end zone empty out at halftime? Less? More?
Sorry I feel what way? That the school hates fraternities? That the on field product is bad and going to a bar is more fun?
"does 20% of the fans in the north end zone empty out at halftime? Less? More?"
MORE!!!
That's what I thought. So it's not just the Greek life then...
Spoke to my family friend's daughter who is a senior. Her comment: "It's hard for us to stick around when the team is this bad."
For Homecoming, the Greek organizations always pack North Endzone. So probably only 20-30% of students are leaving but it's 75% of North Endzone.
Upper east side student section was empty in the early 3rd quarter too though. And as /i noted elsewhere, NEZ was over half empty BEFORE the homecoming court was being introduced.
4 out of 6 games this year and they've all been clusterfucks. We've taken to getting to the stadium 30-45 minutes early to make sure we don't get stuck on the outside. Concessions are a total shitshow and I think it's due to a combination of moving from cash to card only, lackadaisical concession workers, and no roaming concessions.
My wife went to get something eat before halftime and didn't show up until the middle of halftime. While she was in line she saw a 3rd cashier just sitting there not making any effort to flag anyone down. The card reader took a while to read through and there's the stupid question about adding a tip.
I won't even get on the case of the scoreboard/jumbotron folks not being able to read the room.
I haven't bought much from the concessions this year due to crowds, but they seriously added a tip question? Delete it and make the processing faster. This isn't a restaurant.
Guessing the move to "no cash" is one of the drivers of no roaming concessions, but I agree that not having them roaming the stands means lost concession revenue. I used to always get water and or a coke from the roaming guys, but I'm not gonna miss 15-30 minutes of the game to get something at a stand.
Just OOC, where do you sit? I have seen the roaming drink guy at least twice each game in Section 16.
Might be a West side thing. I'm in primo seats in Section 9 and I haven't seen anyone for the last couple of games.
Section 31 right at upper rail of portal, and I haven't seen any roving vendors in several YEARS.
Side rant-would it be so hard for even 1 or 2 folks to go to upper east portals to do the Tshirt toss? or is that only reserved for those who have the money to afford lower tier seats?
I saw ONE roving vendor ONCE during WVU in Section 11. That was the only time since before Covid that I have seen the illusive being.
Agree on the t shirt toss. I think they should have people at different levels.
I now have funny mental image of said lone roaming vendor being spotted and mobbed by hungry/parched/intoxicated fans zombie style, all like "Must have concessions!!!" and poor person running for their life.
You would think for land grant university, somebody would have challenged the engineering department to build an air powered t-shirt launcher. Crank that puppy up put it on wheels and launch to the top of East or West side.
Over on the west side, I sit in HH and have once had a t-shirt reach to about my row.
This is one of the middle of the road ones. The Jags have a massive one that can shoot 20 plus shirts into the top deck 4 times before reloading.
You're ok with an artillery barrage of t-shirts, but god forbid someone launch a single, solitary paper airplane sortie. 🙄🤣
If fans start throwing T shirts that would annoy me too. Going paperless tickets has been amazing.
Row 4J for me. If someone throws one from the field to my row, we've found our new QB1.
I wouldn't worry a whole lot about the t-shirts. They're probably all size small anyway!!!
Especially after you wash them once.
LOL true..but I know a girl I could give one too if I got one,
The clock/down and distance stuff has been abysmal this year-missing restarting the play clock, wrong down and distance showing, not showing timely and decent angle replays especially on targeting/penalty type plays.
Also the timing of 'music' playing is odd at times- minutes of silence during a timeout and then starting a song ten seconds from restarting of play; and someone PLEASE tell those folks what the definition of 'karaoke" is-if you don't put the words on the screen to follow along, it's NOT karaoke!! Especially bad when they wanted everyone to sing the alma mater (that probably only folks required to learn the words know.).
Also, ditch the 'Grand Prix" animated race or at least change it up. Always the same thing, they start, random cars pass each other in no logical order(it's not like they 'lap' each other), one car spins out into the camera, then one car presses the turbo button and speeds past the other at the finish line....repetitive, boring, and lame IMO.
Congrats to the fan who absolutely NAILED the field goal for $1000! Several folks near us wanted to count the points for us! And said 'sign her up" to which my reply was 'yeah that would be great except the offense would have to actually get to the plus side of the field" which hadn't happened at that point except the fumbled pass reception early in the game.
My wife said the same thing about the Karaoke.
I HATE the "grand prix" shit with every fiber of my being. It's useless and serves absolutely no purpose other than a mindless distraction.
"and there's the stupid question about adding a tip"
This is somewhat of a tangent, but whatever... Ever since Covid started, I feel like a lot of companies/entities have turned to electronic payments only, and like VT, it's created more of a nuisance than anything. With that being said, the "Do you want to add a tip" or "add custom tip here" is being severely pushed by cashiers/companies where IMHO isn't tip worthy. I get it why they are doing it (especially during Covid where hours were cut/people getting laid off), but the extra step for the transactions add so much time when there is a constant line of customers (like Lane). Plus its an awkward moment when the cashier expects one (why? not sure why, you didn't really do anything out of the norm of your job as a cashier), and they saw you didn't leave one.
First world/Champagne problems, but still fucking annoying.
Absolutely. It KINDA made sense during COVID, but it just seems like another way for companies to push costs off on the consumer.
I was surprised by the tip, but one thing to note is that the people working concessions for the most part are not employees. They are volunteers from various organizations that work the games as a fundraiser. A former coworker of mine is a long time member of the Christiansburg Ruritan club and they have been working the games for years. My younger brother's wrestling team also worked the games to raise money about 15 years ago.
Damn folks. These accounts from Lane make me feel much better about having to listen to the game on my truck radio. Bill Roth snd Mike Burnop with Druckenmiller joining them in the booth. Guessing the gate crowd will be diminished the rest of this season.
I really liked this bit right after halftime.
I really haven't had any issues. But, I've entered at the south end of the stadium every time, didn't sit near students, and didn't buy from regular concessions.
So is all this clusterfuckiness happening on the north side of the stadium only?
Yesterday it was the South West side.
That is also where the problem was for the WVU game. I think a lot of people are entering for other areas from there and clogging the entrance. Or they have too many concession booth all right at entrance 4.
With the giant cluster getting in, at the WVU game I told my family we need to start walking to the stadium at least an hour before kickoff and they thought I was crazy. We just barely got to our seats right before Sandman started. I have no idea why they closed gate 8 on the east side. With gate 7 student only now, the whole east side has to come in through the south end zone or west side which is making everything an even bigger nightmare.
We use gate 1 and Saturday was the worst wait time at that entrance this year- 20 plus minutes. Saw the flyover halfway through the entrance line. Then delays at upper portal entrance meant during Sandman we were stuck halfway up the portal ramp to Section 31.
I always remember the Greek Exodus after halftime at Homecoming but this past weekend from what I could see on TV, it was essentially the entire student body abandoning the team at halftime.
Pretty much, yeah.
Their call, of course, but in my opinion they missed the best part of the game, which was the fourth quarter.
I'll be totally honest- Saturday was the closest I've come to leaving at end of the 3rd quarter as we were not playing well, I got 25 minutes of sleep Friday night(tailgating for noonish kickoffs requires dedication when you can't afford a hotel room and have to drive 3 plus hours from Richmond) and we had some where we wanted to go Saturday evening back home. If the offense hadn't just gotten things on track at that point, we would have left. Glad we didn't-ended up leaving with 30 seconds to go after it was clearly over.
That said, the student section was more than half empty BEFORE the homecoming court even started to be announced.
Great to see Nikki Giovanni-though they missed a great opportunity to do a "We are...Virginia Tech" chant ala Marshall.
The time to get into the stadium is awful. The Internet connectivity around the stadium sucks so the mobile ticket thing ends up slowing things down significantly. How do osu/Michigan or any of these other huge stadiums do it or is their process similarly long?
Concessions have always been a cluster. Why they don't let you order and pay through an app and just have concessions have a payment confirmation code to scan and pickup your food is beyond me.
People leaving at halftime during homecoming has been happening for as long as I can remember so I expected that for this weekend. That being said, nobody left a game early when vick, Randall, or tyrod were here. If we have a good team, people will stick around.
Moat of the huge stadiums have way more entrances. They almost have an entrance per section. Clemson has separate entrances for the top half of their stadium Tham the bott half.
Students have bailed on games that feel hopeless for a long time. 2005 Miami game I remember lying down in the north end zone bleachers in 3rd quarter and still being able to watch the game because the stands were so empty.
I remember you! My roommate and I stayed the entire game out of principle and just not wanting to give up on the team.
My guess is that Michigan and OSU probably are shelling out for in-stadium wifi which probably speeds up electronic ticketing and cash-less concessions
HokieEnginerd got an email from the Hokie Club today asking about his game experience... Who else got one? It's not going to be pretty...
I did. If they're reaching out to me to ask my opinion then I'm going to have to give it to them. It's gonna feel like one of those Howlers from Harry Potter to the poor soul that has to read it.
I did. Blasted them with both barrels too.
HokieEnginerd is planning to do the same.
I did not. What the hell??
It's random each week to fans throughout the stadium, we got one for BC game but not Wofford.
I got one of these this week too... for the West Virginia game. Which I didn't even go to.
Did you sell your tickets? If so it's because they were scanned in.
No, I only bought tickets to the Miami game off of Stubhub this year.
I don't remember hearing Hokie Pokie at all, on homecoming ... Let the damn band play!
one of the courtesy shuttle drivers ran over my wife's back foot while we were standing in line to get into the stadium. screaming and quite a few bad words as it happened and the guy kept going. i didn't know what was happening, by the time i figured it out, checked on her, he was gone. way, way too many golf carts and they need to be shut down 30 mins or so before kickoff.
Holy crap that is awful. Lane is just an unmitigated disaster on all fronts right now.
luckily no harm other than scrapped heel and bruise. can walk on it, her pants leg and shoe have tire tracks tho. probably a good thing i was slow in realizing, could have been an uglier scene if i got the driver.
Wow, I would definitely be emailing Whit over this.
Completely anecdotal evidence regarding the paperless ticket thing but I went to the Georgia Southern vs JMU game this past weekend, everything appears to be paperless there as well and obviously its a much smaller stadium than Lane. The thing that struck me the most was people just not having their tickets downloaded/saved to their apple wallets, the couple in front of me was older and had to individually pull up their tickets with somewhat slow cell service, probably took 60-90 seconds for them to scan in, I had saved all four tickets to my wallet and had them scanned in maybe 15 seconds? You extrapolate that difference out and if people aren't downloading before hand it will become a mess really quickly, some of that is messaging from the school but some of it just on the fanbase to adjust to how games work now and be as prepared as possible ticket wise.
https://hokiesports.com/staff-directory
Just went through this list and found twitter accounts for many of the upper leadership of tickets and facilities and tweeted this thread at them using the share button.
We barely saw the flyover while being locked out of the gates. In addition to the clusterfuck that was getting in, concession were obnoxious. I went to get us drinks before the end of halftime. The line I was in was a little long, but nothing crazy--I was able to easily see the end of the line (unlike the WVU game). The line moved slower than molasses in winter and it was one of the bigger stands with multiple lines. When I got to the counter, I was informed that they were out of hot dogs (no biggie wasn't planning on getting them anyways). I ordered 2 souvenir cups of Coke. They were barely over 1/2 full. I missed more than half of the 3rd quarter.
Ohhhhh man did they screw up the flyover. I was at the Section 9 tunnel at the end of the anthem and managed to get back to my seat and settled in time to see the 4-ship flyover. Someone on the ground doesn't know how to read a watch.
In addition to the email that HokieEnginerd got from the Hokie Club. Tech Athletics called to ask about his experience for all 4 home games.
Is anyone else getting tired of the Hokie celebs leading the let's go chant? I especially don't like when they do it right before sandman. It just sucks all of the hype out of the air. It seems a bit much when there are 3 different people doing it at different points of the game. David Wilson brought the hype with the backflips, but as much as I love Keely Rochard and Nikki Giovanni, it was a little awkward.
There are those than can lead it properly and those that are horrible at it. The 2nd group FAR outnumbers the 1st. I also have a problem when they do it. Beginning of the 4th quarter is a great time in lieu of the Hokie Pokie. But between the 1st and 2nd quarter or right after half? Get outa here. They need to be situationally aware about it to. Getting blown out? Let's not share all the hype videos from previous games...that we lost...