Well, it's a good thing we weren't playing for an appearance in the ACCCG. And I hate losing to NCSU. There is so much to say about this game now that we have an entire season to begin. to evaluate.
First of all, looking at this game in a vacuum...
1. If we start slow we are going to lose. Period.
2. I'm OK if we go in a different direction with the defensive staff. Marve needs some dudes, but the guys he has still have no idea what do do.
3. I will never understand the lack of urgency in the 4th quarter when you are down multiple scores. It's mind boggling. We don't get in a hurry until the last few minutes of the game.
Now, looking at this game in the context of the season...
I do think we are an improved team. This staff is most certainly learning on the job as evidenced by clock management, player preparation, etc. I like the trend, but this is going to be a slow build unfortunately. And I don't happen to think Marve will be part of that long term.
Go Hokies!
Comments
I would like to vent on how long it took to create this post.
It's poop again.gif
French said NC state was team we'd struggle against. We should hire French.
Kinda nice to see a vent thread and not a meh thread, especially after how the season started
we're inconsistent and that's not surprising.
I really wanted to see us go clean sweep after the Louisville game as a clear indicator of a sea change and major improvement-- but we're inconsistent
Remember this morning when we had a chance for the ACCC game?
Hand raised, but I was actively rooting against. No need to get boat raced by FSU again.
What's the math on this? Best we could've done is tie Louisville's conference record and they own the tie break against us, no? FSU already clinched
*Edit: found the reasoning:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-confere...
Head to head apparently is second to record against common opponents, not sure I've ever heard (or been aware) of that before...in any sport
If UNC had beaten Clemson and Miami UofL and VT wins out then all 3 are 6-2 since there isn't a clear head to head for all 3 it goes to common record Erich we beat both Pitt and UVA in that scenario
Makes sense! 10 years ago, I would've known this as if it were common knowledge 😆
I still don't comprehend this because if Loserville lost they would have been 6-2 in conference and if we had won both NCSU and UVA we would be 6-2 with a tiebreaking loss to them..
We needed Carolina to win out too to create a three way tie at 6-2 where would would have prevailed due to common opponent records since there was no head to head between unc/Louisville/us. But, oh well 🤷♂️
There was a 4% chance of it happening. And the three things that needed to happen last week (Miami, VT, and UNC winning) all went the wrong way, so, don't need to worry about it too much.
Beat loluva, that's all!
Offense didn't have a fantastic day, but they scored 28. Not sure why we didn't use Tuten more early.
But the D stinks. If you can't create a scheme to atop one of the most one-dimensional offenses you will ever face, you have no chance going foward.
I've seen enough of both of our Coordinators...enough of Bowen to say he has shown enough promise to continue building. Enough of Marve to know he should be packing his bags.
Tuten with -3 yards. I wouldn't have guessed that.
Once we got down 21-7, we had to throw more, but Tuten didn't even touch the ball the first 2 drives.
He is our most talented non-QB player on O...that shouldn't happen
We only had like 10 offensive plays by the time they were up 21-7
It was 17...and Tuten touched the ball twice by that point.
Every starter on O is eligible to come back next year. Every point we've scored is by a player with eligibility. Off-season for this offense will be important. Especially if we can build on this season (after Marshall). Bowen showed his chops once he was forced to change his scheme.
D is an enigma. Our worst position groups are those we have the most coaching expertise. I think the book is out on Marve. He hasn't show the ability to scheme, recruit and adjust. We thought last year was Pry not giving him the wheel, but here we are (think he didn't trust him and the Liberty game was fools gold). Need to move on from his as DC.
Not saying Marve is the guy moving forward, but we definitely know from Pry himself that Marve was on training wheels and didn't call a game until Liberty
Problem is, who is Pry going to hire to replace Marve? Marve knows Pry's scheme, and there aren't too many guys in Pry's tree he would trust to run his scheme. If he changes DCs that means he's likely changing away from his own defense, which he's not going to do.
We need someone to teach basic fundamentals of the linebacker position and recruit some DL and LBs. Have been frustrated this hasn't been more of an emphasis in the portal the last few cycles. APR has been great as a pure pass rusher, but we need to really beef up the front 7 and coach them much better than we are now.
Valid points.
I don't know who a natural replacement would be, but ultimately Pry's job is to do what's best for the team.
And I have lots of trouble seeing that keeping Marve around is that. I would have less issue if NCSU had beat us with some unexpected gameplan or just a bunch of guys making big plays. But they dominated our Defense by doing exactly what everyone expected them to do.
Same can be said for Rutgers and Marshall...neither had a QB who could throw the ball from the beach and hit the ocean, but they didn't have to because we had no answer for their bread and butter.
We aren't where we want to be talent-wise but we are good enough that one-dimensional G5 teams shouldn't be able to dictate the gameplay to us.
There are games this year where our defense has been excellent. But the NC State O-line literally pushed our d-line guys around. I still think we need better players on D - especially line and linebackers. Honestly upgrading to having four star recruits around, but we have to work towards that. APR had some solid moves, we just need more of guys like him.
I mean, after the first few games of the season, this game was more of an expected loss. We ARE making progress. Winning against some of the teams we've won against probably makes it feel like we could win games like this, but we just have some serious weakness that some teams can't exploit. Some teams can. I really do think we can recruit the right guys and do away with those weaknesses.
I don't know...95 yards of offense in the first half is not great. A halftime adjustment is way too late.
But the offense barely touched the ball because the defense let NC State march down the field burning clock. Bowen could have made adjustments after the second possession and we didn't get a chance to see them since NC State was soaking up the clock. Yes the offense should have done better with it's possessions, but the should have also had more of them.
I'd argue in this case(as I think it has been for several years),the offenses three and outs let NC State to have easier time against our defense who had to play for 2/3 of the first half(and same ratio in the 2nd almost); even the first two scoring drives we had took a COMBINED 57 seconds. Great for the fans excitement but no real rest for the D!! (Not making excuses for all of the "not stellar" job the defense did in not having a spy on Armstrong or losing receivers far too often but fatigue DOES affect them still).
Again, I think we've seen progress this year (although a huge damper will be put on things if we lose next week), and that's a good thing. However, I am really beginning to question whether or not Marve should be part of the rebuild following this season.
TOP: 19+ mins = 28 pts. Ummm......I'll take it.
NC State is a decent team. We left the field with a respectable loss
I thought we lose by at least 2 TD's. We didn't. Give The Pack it's due. We held our own and made it interesting.
Goals for this season were to find an offensive identity, show noticeable improvement, and beat UVA. All three are still in play.
Obviously would always prefer a win, but this game doesn't really change anything about this season, or my thoughts on the staff.
I think we have a fairly clear offensive identity. We just need better supporting players (O-Line) to be able to fully commit to it against good defenses. We've shown how well it works against teams that have worse rosters than our's.
Raise your hand if you had Marve being the questionable coordinator at the beginning of the season.
🙋♂️
Honestly, I did. He seems like a really sharp guy, but had only called one game before the season and his hire received mixed reviews. I actually still think he can be a good one for us, he just needs to continue to grow into the role.
Some legitimate P5 DTs and a transfer middle linebacker could help tremendously.
This defense would look so much better with a legit middle LB. I want us to go out and get one and if we still look lost next year then it's time to make a change on the defensive staff.
FAMTHAT DEFENSE WAS ABSOLUTE BUTTI thought FAM was only for good things.
Busch Light is good.
Wild Turkey is better tho
Boston Butt. See what I did there?
On what planet, lol!
Not going to vent. Just get focused for next week and kick some fat UVa ass at Lane North. Scored the last 14 and somehow got to where we had a chance. No time for dwelling on negatives.
His hair perfectly matches the stripes on the wall. It's mesmerizing.
It's so frustrating...I just don't get how this D can't do the fundamentals well, I know it comes to coaching but it sucks to watch. They had to have known that NC State's offense came down to Armstrong running and keeping tabs on Concepcion...and they still got hammered. Just like we knew Louisville would run the ball into the ground on us and still did. It's not like these teams are doing something different and outscheming us, they just do what they do and we can't stop it. We were able to take the run game away from BC because we had a huge lead, but it just blows my mind how unsound we are at run D.
We need players like their #11 Wilson. He'd make any DC look good.
This is a tired excuse at this point, two seasons in.
Yes, we all know that the talent needs to upgrade significantly. However, that is not an excuse for players, two years into a system, having no idea what their job is.
I kinda disagree it's still a viable reason we suck. It's not the whole reason but we've got 2 WRs that we converted to defense our LBs are basically safeties. We haven't been able to put out the same defense 2 weeks in a row because of injuries. Our personnel sucks.
In reply to what you're replying to yes having the best LB in the entire country would certainly help our defense.
Again, yes, we need to upgrade the talent. But that isn't why we are getting blown out against average ACC teams (I know the score was close at the end, but we got blown out if we are all being honest). Talent has almost nothing to do with understanding what your job is and where you are supposed to be (I'll take that to my grave) and that is the biggest issue for me.
Wilson is a tackling machine. And, I was disappointed we didn't get him. But now that I've watched him play, he's a piece of shit. Every tackle, he found a way to yank on an arm or a leg.
Be an awesome tackler and ball hawk. Don't be an asshole.
Agree. But it would be just fine if he was our asshole.
That reminds me of someone.
I think a decent amount of it is if the other team has a really strong O-Line. When they just bulldoze a path, it's a challenge to get stops. Our D is better suited to pass defense, including putting pressure on a passer, than on being able to stop a run heavy offense behind a really good O-line. Our D-line, especially APR, seems to have pretty good techniques, but that doesn't necessarily help when you are outweighed significantly by the O-linemen when they also have skill, or flat out are able to just push you out of the way.
Bowen has shown the ability to adjust and put together a good scheme when push comes to shove. He's still pretty green and there are head scratch play calls occasionally, but by and large our offense has improved immensely and we have an identity. I see what he's building, and I like it.
Marve on the other hand... yeesh. It has been the same. Issues. Every. Week. Some weeks (like this one), it seems like he didn't even watch film on the opponent. His ability to scheme and adjust is - politely - diarrhea from a diarrhea fountain. It lost us the game today, flat out.
I think it's clear now at the end of year 2, who should stay and who should go at coordinator positions. Let's see how willing Pry really is to "have difficult conversations".
Why our defensive staff could not come out with a better plan to account for 2 players really is beyond me. Seriously. And I'm not calling for Bowen's job or anything but in both this game and Louisville I thought we started the game with a completely different offensive scheme. Are we outsmarting ourselves and trying to bring a different look early? I mean, Tuten had 2 rushing attempts and netted-3 yards rushing.. for the whole game. Thomas had 1 carry. What? That's nuts. What was our gameplan today? Can anyone figure that out?
I see the outsmarting ourselves thing too. I like the misdirection and sprinkle of trick plays. When the offensive scheme seems counter to our strengths, the favorable explanation is that it's an attempt at a complete misdirect. However, it never works. It's mindboggling.
We lost a bowl game on a pass play against a kid that couldn't throw the ball. GT beat us in Lane with their 3rd string QB in a key ACC game. Pitt had a WR that was asked to leave Maryland that had the most receiving yards ever against VT- think about that. And yes, we made NCSU's freshman WR look like a heisman finalist. Nothing should surprise you.
Only one thing left to do.
Go 1-0 next week.
I look forward to French's write up. Did we prepare that poorly or was NC State doing things we hadn't seen. It sure seemed like we were losing track of receivers frequently. And we could not contain Armstrong. We're we being held or were the LBs back to missing gaps?
NC state on offense did exactly what everyone thought they'd do.
NCState had a good game plan to keep us off the field. The thing I have enjoyed the most is watching is seeing an OC that can actually attack weakness. That reverse was great and I think came on like the 14th play of the game. I think with some improved oline play that we could have something. We've been good at throwing in wrinkles that exploit teams all conference season long. Seeing an OC's growth is amazing as well I haven't see that too much watching VT football.
There has been a theme of VT's best offensive plays have been exploitation of the defense weakness and not overpowering O-line blocking. Everytime a few of the O-line is running down the field not having touched anyone.
Fix the O-line, this offense can get interesting.
Stiney- everyone blocks pefect 3 recievers are open but the longest route is 5 yards and every red zone play is a run
Loeffler - If I run these 32 plays to perfection the 33rd play will catch everyone off guard and be a TD ... team then runs 32 perfect plays and screws up 33
Corn - There is no way they will triple cover the y reciever throw it to the y no matter what and give us a drive killing play
Bowen - That play looked good except of all the Olinemen that didn't block anyone.
Also Corn and his boss... if they are in 2 high safety run the ball- no matter what- just beacuse...ya know- 2 high safeties.
This teams linebacker play is so ugly it hurts!
Pry needs to take over defense
No way, Pry needs to focus on being a head coach. He can make a staff change if he feels it's necessary.
Plenty of good coaches in college and NFL that call the plays on offense or defense.
poor defensive effort. Offense got off to a slow start but looked much better later in the game.
I think there are things to learn here, for sure, but I also think this team (coaches and players alike) has improved over the course of the season and that's kinda all we were looking for in year two, to be honest. We all knew this was going to be a long, ugly rebuild but we're right on track IMO.
I think it's critically important for this staff to beat UVA, though. Ending the season on a high note and carrying some momentum into the off season will do wonders for this team's psyche. Going from 3-8 to 6-6 is a pretty solid step in the right direction. 5-7 would feel a bit hollow, even though it is also a good step in the right direction. It would just leave a sour taste losing the last
threetwo games in a row.fortunately we've already avoided this, but your overall point stands.
These coaches and players are figuring out how to win, but they're figuring it out a little too slowly. And they still don't know how to win with anything of significance on the line. That needs to change ASAP.
My real answer to that hypothetical question that was floated before the BC game is that I did not, under any circumstances, want to go into Cville needing a win to go to a bowl game. And because we can't have nice things, that's exactly the situation we find ourselves in. I do not feel remotely good about next week.
Exactly this.... the win/loss column may not reflect it, but UVa has been playing competitive football since their bye. I'd dare say their wins against UNC and Duke could be better than any of our wins. Pry is going to see a different side of life if he loses to the Hoos next week, which is a distinct possibility considering the Jekyll and Hyde nature of this team. Also, for UVa, this IS their bowl game so they are going to throw the kitchen sink at us to win. We better be ready to do the same.
You are absolutely correct. UVA is a very competitive football team, regardless of the record, and has looked much less Jekyll and Hyde than our Hokies. I do not feel good about the game next weekend.
It's loluva, relax.
I would never sleep on those spoiler bastids.
I completely agree with this. We can't afford to mess around for a half and not have any energy and let them go up multiple scores on us because they'll feed off that. I actually think we match up ok defensively with them because their gameplan is very much not to take the air out of the ball like BC and NC state but they can throw the ball and they have a really good WR. I think the key is to empty the playbook from the start and do whatever it takes to put points on the board.
Yes. Mash the gas from the opening kick and never take your foot off. After all, if we lose, it could prove to be our bowl game too.
Gotta set the tone! Who's gonna fucking set it?
Drones. When we run him early and have him set the time the O runs better.
I didn't watch the game because I don't get ACCN, but I kinda followed along on ESPN gamecast.
I see most people here shredding the defense. The offense had 7 points just about midway through the 3rd quarter, no? Not exactly the '99 Rams.
At that point it was like 58 - 18 plays ran. Our defense didn't get our offense on the field.
For the first few series, the offense wasn't keeping themselves on the field either.
See my comment upthread(linked below)-I'd argue it was the reverse- that the O KEPT the D on the field by going 3 and out and when they DID score in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, the combined time of those "drives" was 57 seconds!
https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/1228881#comment-1228881
I mean it was easily both. The defense was giving up like 6 yards a play outside of their first 2 drives. The offense wasn't sustaining drives and had two quick strike scores. The defense was on the field a lot because the defense sucked, the offense sucked, and then the offense was too good.
We knew NCSU had a stout defense, it was not surprising that the Offense didn't light the world on fire.
Meanwhile, NCSU's Offense was a mess and they really handled our D. We didn't look like we were prepared for what everyone knew they were going to do. When you let a team beat you by doing exactly what they want, its hard to reconcile, particularly when teams like UConn and UVa fared better than you defensively.
Yeah but NC State scored TD on three consecutive series...pretty much what decided the game
They scored a TD on 5 straight drives and because they worked the clock effectively, they got two consecutive possessions in the middle of that run. We actually scored on two consecutive drives during that stretch too (if you don't count the kneel down drive to end the half), but 5 consecutive TD drives is no way to keep your team in the game.
We have improved tremendously and we fought hard all the way to the end against a better opponent.
Let's beat UVA.
A chance to go bowling with a win against UVA? Anybody with any reasonable expectations would be lapping this up at the beginning of this season.
Fuck UVA. Let's go.
We already have 1 more win than I thought we would at the start of the year. Finishing 5-7 after being 5-5 would be a let down, but yes, totally with you. Can't be angry with where we are now.
Just forget this game, call James Gayle in for daily motivational speeches and let's beat UVA
James Gayle knows how to set the tone.
Someone make a hate week thread pls
Just one? Feel like the coach, the team, the mascot and the school all deserve their own.
Watching this game was like watching an old Paul Johnson GT team. They just slowly moved down the field and there was absolutely nothing we could do to stop them.
Bowen was a little late with the adjustments but he did make them. It seemed like we just kept the same defensive plan for the whole game.
We're not good enough to have mental mistakes on offense. Penalties killed us on our first two drives and took us out of our game plan. We adjusted well after half.
On defense, we were out of position so much I have no idea what to say. Armstrong ran all over us and the RB was wide open every time he went out for a pass. I'm guessing our guys were confused by motion or formations but we literally had two guys to contain and we couldn't do it.
I hate that bowl eligibility comes down to next week but I'm glad we at least have a bowl to play for.
Time to move on and go 1-0
I actually thought the D would be pretty okay this year...I was wrong...ppg-wise, it is almost exactly where it was last year
Never been a fan of the 3-3-5; but it looked decent with Superman at LB.
Living in Gator territory, I see Pry and Napier in similar spots...both need to trade out some of their buddies. Marve isn't being relied upon for a ton of recruiting, so if he can't consistently coach up the D... Gators will likely part with a DC we absolutely don't want.
Sheesh the fact that we even had an onside kick at the end with an opportunity to have a game-tying drive is beyond me.
It's almost as if time of possession is completely disconnected from how close the game is regardless of outcome. 🤔
That makes no sense at all
Worst coaching game plan of the season on a relative basis. This was a winnable game, albeit against a good team.
Defensively it was Marve's worst team game as NC state just flat outflanked us with a mixture of motions and formations with basically two weapons (qb run game and concepcion). This exposed our lack of good linebacker play, that was exasperated by losing Lawson early in the game.
Offensively, we just look like a team that plays tight early and the coaches coach conservatively early in the game. I don't care what the score was, but Tuten getting two touches is inexcusable and Cornelson esque.
Coaches need to look in mirror here.
NC State scored easily with little to no defense from VT on 4 straight drives. Easily. That's 28 points right there. With an offense that came in ranked plus 100. That is flat horrible coaching and adjustments by Marve. As in none- zero. NC States offense is not good. If it were, I wouldn't be as pissed as I am.
Choosing to look at the positives from yesterday:
1. Despite being down, the players never gave up. The way they fought in the 4th quarter was inspiring.
2. Thanksgating was a total W. It remains undefeated. Gonna miss you guys until next fall.
Huh, something I did not expect to see: VT had a 54% likelihood to win based on the stats of last night game.
Time after time after time, our first (and sometimes second) defensive players missed the tackle. It was almost as if our defense was playing touch football and their offense was playing tackle football. Sometimes it was over pursuit and sometimes it was slow responses to being juked. So my question is, is that the fault of the players or the coaches? Is that being out of position (poor run gap fit?) or poor tackling technique?
All of us can and have "sliced and diced" our assessments. From what I've observed from the fan base here teeters on taking one game's results and then driving an expectation for the remainder that has a little bit too much "emotion" behind it.
Here's how I sum up our performances vs the ACC teams: using my 17 year olds travel soccer team.
Two weekends ago my daughters team attended a college showcase tourney. They went 2-2, 0-6 and 6-0.
What do you think was the absolute, overarching factor in these three games?
We have enough talent, coaching and buy-in to beat the bottom feeders of the ACC. We don't have enough talent to win outside of this. Until we get the talent I am reserving all coaching judgement. Until we get the talent our OL and LB will be what it is, nothing more, nothing less.
I can appreciate this posture as I think the issue is related to both our talent level and to our inexperienced coaching staff.
If I may play "devil's advocate" for a moment... How much talent? How much talent will allow you, or anyone, to give a reasonable critique of the coaches?
From my perspective the talent issue will take some time and we should be patient with that part of the process. On the other hand, the critique of Marve, and the entire defensive staff honestly, is warranted. We have 3, one of them high level, LB coaches on the staff and that is, by far, our worst position group. We absolutely ned to upgrade the talent in that room, but we aren't nearly as "untalented" as the play on the field represents. That is my opinion, and others are entitled to theirs as well.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Free will allows us to do so. Didn't say otherwise.
I would say 2025 is the earliest where we will have a large enough body of work to see any glaring voids in our coaching staff that need to be addressed. By then we will have several rounds of specific portal recruiting along with Pry's recruits hitting the field en mass. Also, this is Pry's position and I agree with it.
However, we could see some degree after mid season next season, but i think that may be premature. I could be mistaken. For example, if we land some good LB's in the portal who can have an immediate impact and we don't see improvement then one can start to shift focus from player talent to coach.
Outside of talent, is IQ and S&C. If the players we have now from the previous regime don't have it now they never will no matter how great the coach is or lack thereof.
I think this is likely going to be a robust conversation heading into the offseason, and a nuanced one at that. It will be interesting to see how Pry continues to move things forward.
This is a fair question. And I will further posture that the coaching staff is also responsible for bringing in the right talent for the group to succeed. So, it's not a question of how much talent or when, but can the coaches bring in the talent, coach up the talent, and use the talent effectively. All of which can be assessed on year-to-year basis.
They took huge strides in bringing in talent after the 2022 season but also didn't really get anyone of significance in OL and LB, which were the two positions that struggled the most in 2023.
To continue an upward trend, it will be imperative that VT identify and bring in the pieces for this team to take it to the next level. It will be on Marve (and Pry) to bring in a MLB and either coach up or bring in a WLB. It will be on Crook to get a C (or G), OT, and probably another G to compete with the Moore brothers. Price will need to work on that DL too this offseason.
But to your last point, while the overall talent is getting better, the team is still really deficient at key positions which are exploited by good teams. That's why they really struggled against FSU and UL, and to a degree against NCSU. Plug those holes and then let's see if Marve still gets outworked. But I also think the scrutiny on Marve is well deserved right now because it is his responsibility to get the talent and he did not do that last offseason.
If you're expecting significant upgrades at OL through the portal, I think you're going to be disappointed. There just aren't many good OL in the portal and everybody wants them.
LB might be a different story, but o think that may be another position everyone wants and there is a lack of talent in the portal.
Yet, that's exactly what UL, Duke, and FSU did. VT should be in that mix and I think the expectation should be 2 significant upgrades in the OL via the portal this offseason.
Portal recruiting is about identifying, back-door recruiting, and selling. I would like to see what happens when VT actually puts in an effort there. They showed they can do that with Drones, Canteen, Tuten, and the WR room. Selling should be easier now that they now have proof that portal recruits will succeed at VT and the team is on the rise.
Will recruiting OL be harder? Sure, but not impossible.
And I should note that significant upgrades isn't necessarily recruiting currently starting P5 linemen, but much like Tuten or Canteen, identifying overlooked talent that can play at the ACC level. So, we won't really know if a recruit will be a success until 2024 games are played.
F$U and UL used NIL to pull their lineman. I have heard our NIL game is decent but I think those guys are at a different level. I have heard stories of UGA gathering all the lineman they can to prevent them from going to the competition. We won't win out against schools like this.
I believe Duke went down a level to get their talent. This is probably what VT will need to do as well. That will probably mean grabbing a bunch and hoping some pan out.
I would think LB would be easier to find but I could be wrong.
Duke is using the entire Ivy League as their minor league. It's honestly a brilliant recruiting move - Ivy League schools don't have athletic scholarships. You can offer P5 football and an Ivy League education for free to kids who care about getting an Ivy League education.
This staff has developed our own "minor league" program. JMU, Liberty, ODU, Marshall, VMI, etc. are becoming our pipeline schools. We need to cherry-pick their best players and in return, we send them potential starters that can't hack it at VT.
Those relationships are crucial to our recruiting future. Rahne at ODU will always be loyal to us as long as Pry is the HC. We need the same level of relationships with the other schools.
Duke is meh. A couple of decent wins for Elko, but they are nothing special at all. UVA just beat them. Meh.
Duke is rudderless without Riley - I think they're a much better team with him at the helm
You're point still stands, I think, but Duke with Riley doesn't lose to UVA
Yea. I bring up Canteen and Tuten because I think VT can have success in finding OL in a similar manner. I also think it's possible to go all in on an OT in a similar manner to the recruitment of Drones. Have Bowen and Crook in his house the day the portal opens.
We'll see what happens, but VT has shown they have a good playbook to portal recruiting.
Our portal mission # 1-100 should be the defensive front 7. All of them. If we are being honest, none of them can play. None. Lawson? looks great coming off the bus. I'll leave it at that. Again, if we are being honest and have aspirations beyond being the new Wake Forest, that whole group needs to be replaced in the portal. Period. Can't get pressure, over run their lanes, can't tackle, can't fit run gaps. Get better players if you want to beat good teams.
yea, the most critical needs are DT and MLB. Need to also improve DE and WLB run defense.
If they get nothing in the portal, the floor of the team drops. If they get 2 serviceable DTs and a serviceable MLB, the floor maintains the same. But ideally, they get 2 DTs where at least 1 is capable of being disruptive in the run game, a good to elite MLB, a DE that is disruptive in the run game, and a WLB that can make plays. It's possible that the DE and WLB are each already on the team and need another offseason to get to a higher level.
That said, you can really raise the floor of the team with improved O-line play. One of the biggest issues against opponents with a good defense was negative plays and 3-and-outs. And if you reduce those, VT's defensive play will also improve. So, get a good C and OT and I think this team is at least competitive against the best of the ACC.
My portal thoughts are:
Minimum needs: DT, DT, and MLB
To improve the floor: above plus C and OT
To win against good teams: the above gets are more than serviceable, and get/develop DEs and WLBs that can make plays in the run game.
And of course, plugging the losses to the portal and/or NFL draft.
Speaking of DT, I wonder if Cam Goode of Michigan - who we signed in 2018 out of high school, is interested in returning to Blacksburg now that Fu is gone? He is a big body.
And the whole VT's offense hold the ball longer to help out the defense has never really come to fruition. We led the ACC in TOP when our offense was ranked plus 100... Scoring 50 points a game? sure- that would help the defense when they give up 49.
It's not about holding the ball longer as recorded by TOP, which is metric that reflects, but does not dictate, gameplay. It's about the defense not being immediately thrust back into the game and giving the defense more field to work with. (Although, that didn't matter when the defense gave up big plays...) And it's also about getting more points.
Let's be real, a good offense does not make a bad defense better. But, there is an energy resource and gameplay adjustment and planning resource that can be improved if the Offense can hold onto the ball for more than 3 plays. And flipping the field or sustaining a drive long enough to get points is also super beneficial to defensive play.
I get what you are saying. I have not run the deep stats admittedly, but I think this is perception vs. reality. I'd venture a guess not all of the untouched 60 yard running plays we have given up the past 8 years came when the defense was forced to go in right after a 3 and out. It might- seem- that way when your offense is as endemically bad as VT's has been, but I bet much of that is simply bad defense too. Like a huge stretch of the game vs. NC State. Their freshman receiver moving up heisman lists was not because VT's offense was bad.
We already tried that....
you'll never believe this, but he's out of eligibility after this season
Darn, but you will believe this- Cam Rising returning to play his 8th year of college football next year.
I don't believe it, but that's because it will only be his seventh year, not eighth. but i understand that every stat you share gets the DC Exaggeration Tax so it is what it is
Cam Rising was part of the same 2018 recruiting class that Cam Goode was. The only difference between their eligibilities is that Cam Rising was granted a medical redshirt. It is the most extreme case of eligibility, not the norm.
ESPN reporting his 8th... the espn exaggeration tax I suppose.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38938447/utah-qb-cam-ri...
Well the talking head that read it on SC saturday night was wrong. IIWII.
This is a measured take as well IMO... It has been a bit disappointing that (1) we didn't land a transfer LB last year, especially if the staff recognized that the players were not growing/evolving and (2) that the players we do have at that position do not seem to have gotten any better, not just physically, but mentally.
We landed one. But he showed up out of shape and left the team after about 4 practices
Right, from VMI as a walk on. We need to aim higher. Much.
I would like to point out that McDonald has looked better each week and really played well the last few weeks. So atleast one is getting better.
He's the reason I said coach up the WLB as a possibility. I think we are also getting decent reps at SLB/nickel too, but definitely need to up the skill in MLB, arguably the most important player on the defense.
Brent Pry hasn't beaten a good team as VT's head coach. NCSU is a "good" team"- they will win 8/9 games this year. I guess the next step in Pry's rebuild is to actually beat a good football team. People will argue that 2022 Liberty might be a "good" team- If so, I rest my case. Pry needs to take the next step in the re-build- beat a team with a pulse. UVA aint that either.
last year Brent Pry's team lost to bad teams. This year, we started off by losing to bad teams but have improved to beating the bad teams. I agree, the next step is beating the good teams. Let's finish this season off with a win in Charlottesville, address some needs in the off season (portal some defenders, for starters) and get better next year. If we start beating good teams by the middle of next year I think that will mean we're still on pace for this slow, steady rebuild under Pry. I'm upset about losing to NCST but I think there is enough evidence this year that we're moving in the right direction. Bowen is figuring out the offense and once he gets more talent in the trenches I think we can be a pretty dangerous team, offensively. Now Marve needs to earn his keep. There is a lot wrong with the defense right now. I think he gets one more season but if the defense doesn't improve next year Pry has to make some difficult decisions, IMO.
Good point about going from losing to bad teams (which we did this year too) to actually beating a few. Yes, that is progress. Overall I won't be thrilled with 5-7 this year on any level. Why? That is a modest 2 win improvement with losses to Rutgers and Marshall. That isn't a hell of a lot better than 3 wins in year one. Now, a win over UVA, a bowl game- that has a much different vibe, even though its only 1 more win. I'll be patient with Pry until he signs a plus 50 type recruiting class. Then, if he is not winning 9 games, he can go. To me that will be the tell tale sign- much like Fu. The heartbeat of a program is signing good players.
agreed
I really think the end of next year will be when we can truly evaluate these coaches and have enough evidence to know whether they're taking us in the right direction or not. At the midway point of this 3-year window that I'm preaching, there is a mixed bag but there is promise. I think it's going to be pretty critical for Pry and his staff to get the defense figured out going into next season. The offense has surprised me, TBH. It's not spectacular, but it's a lot better than I thought it could be given the talent (or lack thereof). UVA is not a good team. They might not be quite as bad as their record but they're not good. We should beat them like we have beaten other bad teams on our schedule. Especially late in the year (I think the early losses to bad teams is forgivable if we continue to beat the bad teams later in the year).
I probably would not be as upset as you about 5-7 in year two but I think that puts more pressure on these coaches to deliver 8+ wins in year 3 (and not lose stinkers to bad teams). If we finish with 6 (or even 7!!) wins that will be a pretty successful year-two in my book.
W/L is certainly what matters at the end of the day but I think we had a lot more tangible improvement this year rather than just 2-3 wins.
The team is improved over last year- no doubt- at times. At times. At other times, we really weren't in the game with a horrid Marshall team and 3 win UVA is a toss up game at the end of the day. The offense is better, yes- Bowen has done a nice job getting that unit into the 60's in total offense.
This is factually accurate. Considering that we started with "beat someone," and have now progressed through "somewhat reliably beat the horrible teams," "win on the road," and "play well on the road against a P5 team (even a terrible one)," I think it's fair to look to "beat a good team."
Once over that hump, we'll bitch about having to chase "regularly beat good teams" and "beat a top team once".
Edit: I didn't refresh and see VPIhokieME's post. I'll drink... Good thing it's a holiday week.
In 2024, we open the season at Vandy, Marshall, at ODU, Rutgers. If we are 2-2, I will 100% bitch about that yes- fair warning. That is a sign that this program is simply the new Wake- at best - through 2 coaching regimes. Vandy and Rutgers are meh to bad P5 teams and Marshall and ODU suck. Come out of that stretch less than 3-1 and yep- commence to bitching, IMO.
well, it's a good thing we're going to beat UVA, get extra practices for the bowl, lick our wounds and get better in the off season, and then start 2024 4-0!!
Let's Go!
Lets hope. UVA will play us tough. Let's hope the BC offense shows up for VT.
This is completely fair IMO. Going 2-2 in that time means we've either failed at in-game coaching, failed to develop talent, and/or failed to retain/replace existing talent. If Drones, Tuten, and 1-2 WRs are all injured, then we'll reassess expectations. But hopefully that doesn't happen.
Correct, obviously major injuries will impact this. I honestly feel its a critical, critical stretch for Pry. These are games you need to win in year 3 if you want recruits to buy what you are selling.
Completely agree. Can't say I've spent much time looking at the 2024 schedule, but we need to prove we can win against a bad OOC schedule.
SUCK IT UVA #8? 9?