Fire Brad Cornelson

I'm sorry the playcalling today has been miserable. He's awful. Spent all damn game running into the teeth of a run defense that was far superior to our running game. We had everything we wanted in the passing game and we avoided it like the damn plague.

This guy is holding us back. We will not reach the levels we want with him coaching this team. The man needs to be fired.

He's got to go.

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

We all agree. No need to make another thread to repeat what's been posted 92 times in the past 15 minutes.

Using /s is for cowards.

We don't all agree....at least I don't. There is not an OC in the country whose fans don't complain about and want to fire.

Uva scored 39

Danny is always open
23 can't read

Fire Bud?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Yeah, he's gotta go.

Lmaooo

Touchdown Tech!!!

LOYALTY to a fault.

Pour some Beer on it

Just laughing because he's already retiring and thought it was a funny ass comment.

Touchdown Tech!!!

Maybe Corn can just retire with Bud

I'm frustrated the offense couldn't pull it out but for the love of God our defense let them stay in the game 3 straight possessions in the 4th quarter. People being pissed off about our offense when the D gave up 32 is just frustrated venting and should be taken with a grain of salt. Offense has taken strides these last few games and it's sad to see fans place all of the blame there...

more chances to score when opposing offense goes 3 &out all the time

Hokie Club member since 2017

Put up 30 and made great second half adjustments. This one goes on the D

The first half was a fucking embarrassment. And come crunch time we avoided the corners for #reasons brad cornelson needs to be left at the fucking airport. If the pitt game wasnt enough this should be more than enough evidence

For a team that attacks the opponents weaknesses.... we sure as shit seemed ready to avoid UVAs this seems like a steiny gameplan

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

I watched the first half and felt good about our chances.

Fans like you are an embarrassment

Come on now.

This one was on the defense and the offense. The offensive line killed us when we needed them most. Hooker(youth) was clearly rattled. Time clock management and questionable play calling at times didn't help us.

I disagree. Every now and then theres one of those games that's just back and forth and there's nothing you can do defensively. In those games the offense has to keep up with the other team. When you are down 4-1 in turnover differential you absolutely cannot blame the defense.

Touchdown Tech!!!

Nice, downvote me instead of responding and arguing how it's the defenses fault with a 4-1 turnover differential. Some of y'all truly blow my fucking mind.

Touchdown Tech!!!

The defense has to be accountable too. You can't say, well some games the defense is gonna suck but offense has to pick up the slack.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

I totally agree. I wasn't giving the defense a total pass but those 4 turnovers were inexcusable.

Touchdown Tech!!!

The defense gave up 33 points, but they also forced something like 5 straight 3 and outs. This was a total team loss. Both offense and defense had good and bad moments. They played well enough to win, but in the end we couldn't overcome our own mistakes and (for a change) UVA didn't bail us out by making more critical mistakes than we did.

He got to go.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

STICK IT IN HAS RETURNED!!!

Trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity/stupidity.

Cornelsen HAS to be fired. There's no reason we lose that game if play calling wasn't absolute ass. UVA did on offense what we should have done with less talented receivers. They changed their game plan to what was working. Not running the same fucking pansy shit up the middle and misdirection over and over again.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

So if their offense and coordinator are so good why did they have 5 3 and outs in a row??

This is an aggressive take for a team that scored 30 against the 20ish rated defense in CFB. He had some questionable calls, but I didn't see that loss as a failure of the offense. The defense was pretty awful except for 1 quarter-ish of the game.

Get Angry, Bud!

Fire Bud Foster. His D couldn't stop the shit heads' O.

Guess you gotta change your signature on here. Sigh

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yep. dcWilson probably visited a Hawaiian witch doctor to curse us. /s

All Fuente haters unite!

Missed you the last few weeks.

I guess the other thread wasn't enough?

Where did I say anything about Fuente?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Oh, you don't come around here enough to know Corny is Fuente's guy?

Just own it.

So I didn't say anything. And for the record I like Fuente as head coach. His OC just needs to go.

And own fucking what? I didn't say a goddamn thing about Fuente. But that didn't stop you from trying to pick the fight anyway.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

...

Serviceable? Sure. But what's wrong with wanting something more than the same 5 fucking plays? We should and could have TORCHED their secondary and did when we threw it, but instead we're running constant veers, misdirections and QB power? THAT is the issue.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

The players and jerry kill made BC any good. If we actually have a competent Tech is a 10-2 11-1 team

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

So apparently my downvote has been recalibrated again and it's 10x stronger. But it stays because this is an obvious CG violation. Lay off the name-calling and personal attacks. This is a bad time for everybody here.

And the serial downvoter on Vtkey needs to stop, too.

He's the one starting fights he deserves every downvote right now

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Then downvote the inciting comment, not everything the guy posts. People need to chill the hell out right now.

Well the other comments were pretty dumb too so i don't know what to do

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

I dunno, make a comment instead of being insulting? If you have something to say, say it. If you call me names and downvote me, It's a sign that you don't have a good response.

None of us liked the final score tonight.

Uva won. There's the comment

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Yes. We saw that part.

Haha I feel for you as a mod right now.

Using /s is for cowards.

At some point, it's not gonna be worth my time, but I will weigh in for a bit. Vtkey posted "good take" below and it was DV'd within seconds. Along with all his other posts. I will stand up against stupid shit like that. Not everything in this thread needs to be DV'd.

Sigh, fine... Edited to take out the insult.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Eh. Seeing this post being negative plaid already is a bit draconian. It's not fully compliant but it doesn't destroy community guidelines.

Responding to someone by calling them a "fucking pheasant" is not acceptable. I don't want this whole place to burn down today. It's gonna be bad enough already. Be mad, whatever, but don't be dicks to each other.

Pheasant? Like the bird?

Recruit Prosim

I guess he meant Hokie.

...

Agreed that the pheasant comment wasn't ideal but it was, TBH, pretty mild as far as insults are concerned.

Emotions run high when we lose, this loss in particular would bring it out of folks, but this feels too controlling.

Well i think because you're trying to get your leg crown back.
πŸ˜‚ HEAVY/s

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

I'm a fucking TURKEY god damn it.

FEAR THE WRATH OF ALL MY TURKEY LEGS!!!
Alum probably πŸ˜‚

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

I totally missed the idea that VT being a turkey-based economy that calling someone a lesser bird would be this insulting.

Now I get it, thanks to this comment.

Call it the yeet cannon

Recruit Prosim

The leg master is so distraught over this great loss of legs! The man has made a career of this! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Beat GT

So if you hate Corn you automatically hate Fuente?

Sure.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

You tell me.

But I saw the commentary during the first half of the season, too.

Today I saw an evenly matched game, with significant lapses in defense.

Clearly you aren't in here to have a conversation. You're here to pick a fight. I think Fuente is a capable coach. Corn is in over his head.

Lots of Fuente hate here right?

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

...

To you? No. Cornelsen should be fired. That was an abysmal game plan.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Your attitude absolutely blows. It has for a long time and no one cares for it anymore so just stop.

What's
Important
Now

...

You would benefit from just zipping it.

What's
Important
Now

That could be said for you and most of Hokie Nation ad well. Lets all chill out for a sec.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Nah. I'm not a dick. I don't act like my word is from the hand of god all the time. I'm allowed to be upset about the performance of the team and our offensive coordinator that needed 4 terrible offensive games to realize his best QB was on the bench.

What's
Important
Now

This. So much this.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Our best QB played today.

But he needs to learn not always to take a sack.

Child Please.

Pour some Beer on it

You're acting like a jackass right now

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

I don't want to get rid of Fuente. I think he needs to make some changes to his coaching staff that's for sure. Now, if he doesn't see the glaring weaknesses on his staff and make some changes, then it's on Fuente to own. Just because someone wants a coaching change in a coordinator position doesn't mean they want the head coach fired. I don't get why people can't separate the two.

Move the ball 40-50 yards in 2-3 plays then run right up the middle for a 3 yard loss to put us in a 2nd and 13th in no man's land. Was pretty frustrating.

But man did our DBs get burned. It was like BC again.

Let's Go...

Was Farley out?

Back spasms

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

We don't have a secondary without him

Disagree with your take on Corny but I think VT wins if Farley plays. Chatman couldn't cover a bed if he was a sheet and we got roasted because of it.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I agree. Perkins can find wide open receivers and get the ball to them, even under pressure.

I'm gonna say this is on the O-Line, pass pro was terrible against the edge rusher

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

I know it's been said and I'll drink for it.

We scored 30 on a really good D, without a senior on the offense.

No. This is the reactionary shit that every fanbase is embarrassed of. He called a less than stellar game today but he has also made some ridiculously good calls. Continuity is a good thing in college football. Corny has a good football mind and if you can't see that then you are not giving him enough credit. The grass is not always greener.

Hope this post gets negative votes.

Not this post you idiots, the original post.... (jk).

Did I miss the offense drive right down the field on the opening possession of second half, the following possession a terrible overturn on hazelton's catch, the following possession a TD...did I miss all of that? Did I dream it? No.

The defense and offense played really well from the second quarter until the third...I fully believed we were about to get some separation.

You may hate it, but there was another team out there that wanted this game more. They made plays when needed, that's lt. plain and simple.

Go Hokies! Win the bowl game!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Good take.

This is the correct take.

Lets all be honest about something. Yes, Corny has been fairly inconsistent at best this season. And yes, I'd love for us to replace him. But we also replace Bud next season... I'm not entirely sure this staff will be more competent next year. Buckle up FAM, we're in for another transitional period.

Is it basketball season yet?

Hooker played his worst game of the year on top of that. That didn't help him much. I still don't even know what fixed our offense during our win streak, whether it was Fuente at the reigns, or better preparation, but our offense went to complete dogshit today for long stretches.

I don't know what change is needed, whether it's Corny, or someone else, but this offensive roller coaster ride can't happen again next year.

It also went through some hot streaks today...

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Looking at my phrasing, I did a poor job. I implied I want Corn or someone fired for today. We need some kind of shakeup, whether it's behind the scenes responsibilities/planning, or something bigger to get more consistency from the start of the season to the end. Some of it was growing pains for sure, but as a whole I think we under-performed for the year.

No worries, I just see things a little differently.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Maybe their defense was pretty good?

CORNY SUPPORTERS UNITE!!

(receives one upvote)

jk don't mean to start anything just thought it was funny

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I work in the Athletic Department and we were waiting for exactly one upvote to offer a 10 year extension. Gracias kind sir.

So to be clear I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Corny move along. But after more than one opportunity to see some folks move along in real life, a good lesson has been learned:

If he goes, who replaces him?

[Jerry Kill, obviously, but I want someone else to suggest something]

Saying 'fire someone' isn't good enough. Offer an alternative Alum!

Throw some money at Chad Morris and play big boy football. Even if he's only at VT a year or two, get his system in there and have some continuity under him who can execute it once he moves on like Clemson. That may even be Corny one day, would not be opposed. But we need fresh perspective in here and Corny is not ready to be a top-tier OC right now. Too much learning on the job.

FWIW a lot of Clemson fans were happy to get rid of Morris. They didn't think he was a good play caller.

Twitter me

This is an immature take. Honestly, when thinking on this game this week, I thought the worst part about a possible loss was the fanbase losing grip with reality again.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Image result for dj khaled ipad

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

UVa was fired up. Give them credit. They made plays when they needed to. Tech line was pushing them around for a while.

whoos were bound to win at some point. 15 years in a row is a big accomplishment.

What about that sack in the end zone? What about the INT in the third quarter? Not on Corny

#Let's Go - Hokies

What about the INT in the third quarter? Not on Corny

While I agree with that it wasnt his fault, the play was not well designed. 3 receivers within a 7 yard circle isnt exactly challenging a defense.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

STICK IT IN HAS RETURNED!!!

VT: 8 penalties- 141 yards

TOP: ~33min VT / ~26min UVA

Yards: 483 VT / 492 UVA

Turnovers: 4 VT (2 int / 2 fumbles)...1 UVA (int)

Make of that with what you will

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

BC 2.0

Is it basketball season yet?

Exactly! TOP was defeated by turnovers.

The data is clear.

How many yards on defensive lapses?

Also a big factor.

By my count four big plays (two runs by Perkins early, two throws by Perkins late) really crushed this defense today.

Is it basketball season yet?

I posted this on another thread but Perkins, who was brilliant (especially early on) accounted for 96.5% of their offensive yardage.

I would have liked to have seen us not allow that to happen but to be fair, the kid balled out. Kudos to him but when he and James Gayle are having a twitter war during our victory next year, I'll be glad not to see him again.

If he's lucky he'll win the second string job with the Ravens next year.

Turnovers: 4 VT (2 int / 2 fumbles)...1 UVA (int)

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

Out coached by a coaching staff who called a kneel down on an untimed extra point attempt. Feels bad man.

The UVA coaching staff has been doing a much better job than Fuente and Co. up to this point anyway (not that I think Fuente needs to be fired, I like what he's doing right now). Bronco has established a culture, developed HIS players, and plays a good brand of football. Today was the culmination of all of that

Is it basketball season yet?

Smart play actually - eliminates the (small) chance of a return to make it a 1 score game. Guarantees it stays at 9 points and a 2-score game.

I have to disagree. I don't think it was coaching. It was the guys on the field. The UVA boys on both Offense and defense wanted it more, played tough and faster, and simply executed better than we did. UVA was the better team. They outscored us 19-3 in the fourth quarter. We plain and simply we not the better team and got our butt kicked.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

ugh

EDIT: Bruce Smiff level prophetic

Brownlow asserted I should feel good about this program moving forward as is. I don't agree with that. It's not a hot take, and I will feel the same way next week as I do today. I don't think Cornelsen is a good offensive coordinator. Fuente has to nail the DC hire (consider how important Bud has been to his success over his tenure) and there are a substantial amount of coaches on this staff that haven't cut it as Power Five coaches.

Damn right!

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

I'd agree with everything you've said here, and I'm not sure what or who Brownlow is. And if I had the @HorseOnATreadmill twitter account I'd agree with all of these opinions on the @JoeLanza account, because I'd be following that account and liking/loving/retweeting everything that shows up there.

So is this from Joe??

Is it basketball season yet?

I do not agree with this take and even worse that it's a sports forum site that represents VT to non-fans. This is VT Twitter, TexAg, Tigernet, 11W level of childish

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

NAH, This is what you get when you're a Hokie Club member and you donate $ to VT athletics and are just frustrated with how the program s running right now. You're allowed to be pissed and thats what you get when you have a LOSER mentality. If you are ok with the Status Quo of the program, you're part of the problem. VT should win the Coastal EVERY YEAR with what we play against.

Pour some Beer on it

And this is how Tennessee ended up where they are today.

Honestly, this is entitled and short-sighted. We aren't better than anyone else just by lining up for a team picture. That VT isn't special. It's just another team logo.

However it is my favorite team logo and I will support it always. That also means defending it from reactionary, impatient and poor decisions.

Get Angry, Bud!

Is this supposed to validate something. Joe was being very reactionary as well. Embarrassingly so.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

It wasn't reactionary. It's not a one-game thought. What parts do you disagree with?

I disagree that a professional, journalism sport forum, that I take part in, decided to post an aggressive and reactionary opinion.

And that it will be viewed by outsiders, who will believe that those who that participate in this forum agree with your post/opinion.

Your post and how you feel is not wrong. But post it own your personal account, if you feel the need to do so.

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

That is my personal account. I talk about my kids on there. Make butt jokes on there. Share photos of PBRs and golf. And during football season I discuss Hokies football.

You're great man but if that's the case then change the name..

Touchdown Tech!!!

Then perhaps make a Joe Lanza twitter account, then you can seperate your personal and professional opinions?

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

My "professional" opinion wouldn't deviate. Cornelsen isn't a great offensive coordinator and Fuente should replace him. Fuente needs to nail his d-coordinator hire. There is room for improvement with the assistants on staff. Fuente needs to grow as an in-game coach.

It might be time to make your own personal account then. It's one thing when there are only a few active users and the site is just starting out, but when you've got multiple people on staff and tens/hundreds/thousands of active users that might not agree with your takes, it can feel like we're being misrepresented by opinions we might not share. When I'm forwarded a TKP "hot take" on twitter by a friend that I introduced to the site (bc of the articles and community I generally enjoy) and that take goes against my own opinions, all of a sudden your personal take is given much more credit than mine because that friend assumed your opinion is the opinion of the entire site. It's not great.

I help manage a number of social media accounts for government agencies and large companies, and there's always some oversight on their accounts to make sure the company message is represented appropriately by their social media activity. Using this as your personal account was probably fine a few years ago, but there needs to be some separation at this point now that the userbase has grown to the point it has.

I appreciate the feedback. It something to think about during this offseason. To me it's faulty logic to conclude that somehow any tweet represents an entire community, but I get where you're coming from. Thanks.

It's really surprising to me that anyone who follows that account thinks it's a "site" account. It's always been my account.

It's a site account to those who arent followers of TKP. They dont realize that Joe Lanza is the mastermind behind it, they just see it as a big league, Hokie website. Which is where my opinion, of your opinion, comes from.

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

There are four main reasons why someone would think that the Twitter account is for the site and not you personally:

1.) The name of the account is the same as the name of the site.
2.) Your name is not mentioned anywhere on the account.
3.) Your pic is the TKP logo. Same as the upper left corner of the screen I'm looking at now.
4.) This is the description of the account: "The Key Play is an independent and credentialed website covering #Hokies football, and athletics. Formerly tweeted in ALL-CAPS during college football season."

Compared to TSL, where they have a main account, and then Chris Coleman and Will Stewart have their own accounts.

I think you hit on a really good point here, as others have mentioned: the separation of the entity from the owners/operators is important, and it looks like this comment, amongst others on this thread, want exactly this.

TSL is well run in this regard, with an appropriate level of separation between the people involved and the site as a separate entity. I think TKP is in the same ballpark as far as quality content but doesn't have the same separation.

ElevenWarriors is another great example - I don't know if/how they operate in this regard, but they're a really well run site that parallels what's been built here.

On the contrary, there are other popular sites, MGoBlog and EDSBS (RIP), that have a personal voice from the "site" branded Twitter handle. Those sites, and 11W, began as a personal endeavor and evolved differently.

All the content posted to @thekeyplay has been from my first-person perspective, most of it doesn't even have to do with the Hokies and I've never tried to represent it's the voice of the community. And based on a follower count, it's done OK.

Overall, I never in a million years thought I'd have to have all of these conversations this evening, but it's been insightful. Although, this really makes doing all this not fun.

A lot of people have expressed valid points here in my opinion. May I ask why you would be opposed to changing the Twitter handle if you are so adamant that it is personal and not representative of the site?

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

This place has clearly done ok, and I've been happy to support it.

I don't know MGoBlog so I'll take your word for it, but if EDSBS is RIP, then... is that a great model to follow?

I am not on twitter so I don't follow anything there, though I have occasionally seen TKP tweets embedded here or in other places, and I've frequently found them funny, but I think there is a line between personal and professional, and I've always been supportive of the professional.

EDSBS was started by Spencer Hall which paved the way for a ton of team-focused college football blogs. It got acquired by Vox Media many years ago, and it's RIP because it voluntarily closed its doors to start banner society.

Ironically, if you wanted me to focus on TKP being more professional I would eliminate the community aspect because what's been posted here has raised more eyebrows than its social media.

Maybe just don't yell so much.

Leonard. Duh.

You're fine. Even if someone thinks that your personal twitter is representative of the site (in an official or unofficial capacity) I don't think anyone (that matters) believes that one person speaks for a whole community.

Twitter me

For sure man, and I'm absolutely appreciative of the community you've built and the content you give a platform to. I completely agree that it's faulty logic, but faulty logic never stopped people from believing something they shouldn't (which is a larger problem that I have no solution for haha).

I also completely understand the experience of having started a personal account that booms and all of a sudden becomes regarded as more than "just a personal account" (my experience was in esports rather than college sports, but still) - it takes some adjusting to, and it can be tough. You feel ownership over it because it's always been yours, but all of a sudden people are yelling at you that you represent "the brand" more than just yourself and you're like "What? No, this is mine, have you even seen what I post most of the time??"

Honestly the main issue isn't the lifers that are familiar with the "coming up" of the site like I am, it's the new folks who come into this (or only see it on social media) and think "Wow, nearly 20k followers? Established website with a paid membership program that's been around for a bit? Press credentials? Must be some weight behind those words." Most of the time you don't think that's something people should even be saying, but thinking that doesn't stop some people from saying that, and it can be difficult to defend yourself against...it's kind of a lose-lose in some cases, because you become a bit of a victim of your own success.

All that said, I appreciate the acknowledgement of my criticism, and still really appreciate all you guys do.

I see professional journalist writing in the sports sections of NRV newspapers write opinion pieces with hot takes like this all the time. Definitely not if these few of words but that's the nature of Twitter. The problem here is a lot of people disagree with the take.

Hokie Club member since 2017

I don't think any coach should ever replace both coordinators and 75% of the assistants. If you do, you should not address it publicly on twitter as the head whistle of a reputable forum. That is just my opinion.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Name the 75% of coaches.

We know Bud is leaving, we don't know about Wiles yet.

I assume you mean Cornelson.

Who else? Zohn? Our best recruiter. Mitchell...not the way Farley and Waller are playing. Jafar Williams, Justin Hamilton...just got here. Getting rid of them would be reactionary, and ridiculous. Vice? Recruiting is best it's ever been at OL, and to my untrained eyes, they have progressed this year (plus starting 2 true freshman).

So 75% is a lot of coaches to get rid of. Add something to that and name the changes you want to see.

Also name the coaches who are going to be willing to take their places when you do that. Because we also don't have the most money, and one of our selling points is "a reasonable fan base".

Is replacing 75% of our coaches after an 8-5 season where we played to win our division really the best move?

Preface: These aren't thoughts based on a single game, the UVA loss.

I would retain J-Ham and Charley Wiles. Zohn is not Virginia Tech's best recruiter, it's arguably Wiles. He has struggled landing top-end defensive linemen, but he's hammered North Carolina plus Florida and has done an excellent job identifying and evaluating playmakers that fit Tech's scheme. He's also a fine positional coach.

Hamilton has received rave reviews and is thought of highly. Recruits are really impressed with him. He's young with a bunch of upside. I think it's important to have someone on the staff over the long haul who is an alumni and has ties to Foster to keep the tradition of the LPD at Tech moving forward.

75% is an odd number, both literally and because there are 10 full-time assistants (7.5). I don't want to chop someone in half, rather I am on the fence about Vice and Shibest. Vice has landed blue-chip offensive linemen, but there are near four years of technique and fundamental shortcomings that have plagued the o-line. Shibest recruits well enough and special teams and tight end play hasn't been fine. However, he's the third-highest paid assistant (behind Foster and Cornelsen) and to me it's a value prop debate. I don't think he's demonstrated about $450-large annually in value and believe the Hokies can allocate that money better. Perhaps that's the market rate. In my head, I've gone back and forth there.

All the others haven't stood out with sustained, high-level success on either the recruiting trail or developing talent. Zohn is very well respected in the 757, but a plethora of blue-chips from that region haven't signed with the Hokies. He has had a couple of solid recruiting wins, but not enough to overcome on-the-field coaching. Running back has been an underdeveloped position for almost his entire tenure. It's not lost on me that Jerry Kill wash hired to fix the run game, and since his appointment the running backs (McClease especially) have improved their vision and patience, and the offensive line has been fundamentally stronger.

It's a similar argument for Mitchell. Farley has improved drastically, Waller has a ton of upside, and Chatman has showed promise, but he's been lame on the recruiting trail. (And he should've been let go last season based on how his group performed.)

On Cornelsen's watch Tech has ranked 39th, 71st, 41st, 70th in SP+ throughout his tenure. That ranges from above average to bad. Hokies were sold on offensive firepower when Fuente was hired. And that's happened in spurts, but hasn't been sustained. Year Four was when the pieces were supposed to be in place on offense, and the result thus far is 70th SP+. That's not encouraging to me. He should go and a new offensive coordinator shouldn't be mandated to retain existing staffers. (Yes, it's unfair that someone like Jafar might get the short end of the stick, but that's the game.)

Had Virginia Tech done better than 8 wins against the worst schedule in Power Five football, and didn't need a bounce-back season to overcome 2018's disappointing 6-7 mark, it's a different conversation, or at least I think so. That's the circumstantial part.

Tech is poised to return 21 of 22 starters. That's a huge opportunity to make a run in the ACC next season. Pending some last minute coups on the trail, its recruiting has also dipped from a .8504 average recruit ranking to .8739, cycle-over-cycle. That's concerning. Overall, I simply believe there are opportunities for improvement; for Fuente to fill out the staff with better combinations of on-field coaches/recruiters.

For sure.

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

We made a run at the ACC this year, with almost no seniors on the team. Next year we have a chance to actually win it. People seemed happy enough when we beat Wake, Pitt, and GT.

We're losing our DC already. I'm open to Fuente making any changes necessary, but the coaching staff seems to be at least doing some things right. I'd give it another year before calling for wholesale changes. Fuente does need to realize that we're expecting to see some results at this point.

For me, the important game is Penn State next year, not UVa this year. I'd also expect to see some results in recruiting.

I appreciate the spirited discussion, but at this point I agree to disagree. I expected more than 8 wins in Year Four against the easiest schedule in P5, you think another year is warranted. Whichever way it goes, I hope we don't have to revisit the conversation next year. 🍻

Me, too.

8 wins but only 7 counted toward bowl eligibility because of the 2 FCS schools.

If we weren't in the worst division in the Power 5 there's a decent chance we don't make a bowl this year. There are a lot of issues we have that have been masked this year due to how poor the Coastal has been.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

To me, this also means that out of all the years NOT to care about the Coastal, maybe this was it.

I fully expect UVA to lose the next two.

I'd rather win when we're good. I'd like to win the ACC. I want the program to actually be good. It's a long term goal.

To me, this also means that out of all the years NOT to care about the Coastal, maybe this was it

Speak for yourself on the 'not caring about the Coastal,' man.

4 years in, one of the easiest schedules we've ever had, and still losing to BC, Duke, and UVA, still haven't beaten a team who's finished the year with double digit wins, talent still isn't there to beat mediocre teams...

Not sure how long you're going to kick the can. '18 was the year before it wasn't, '19 was the year, until it wasn't, and now in your eyes VT is a 7 yr rebuild.

It is time for accountability.

Not trying to reignite a discussion but the "worst P5 schedule" line that keeps being repeated was based on preseason predictions. According to Team Rankings, it turned out not to be true and as such I believe it should stop being repeated, as it tends to be used to exaggerate the circumstances and make the situation look as bad as possible. If people want to say we had a relatively weak schedule, that's a fine and accurate statement.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I am not familiar with that metric but skimmed the list and I eyeballed 8 P5 teams with a worse schedule. I don't think it changes the overall point. Tech played in arguably the worst P5 conference and had a pair of 1-AA games on the slate.

Yes my original point was from a preseason perspective, but that's where expectations for the season ahead get set.

I personally thought the UVA game was good evidence of in game adjustments and pretty solid offensive play. It was a tough close game by evenly matched teams. Now, the SP+ rankings are certainly good evidence for a discussion. Those numbers clearly don't reflect the expectations as advertised. In terms of replacing BC before next season, I don't know. Things really are set up nicely for us to show out next year. HH runs BCs system well. I'm afraid wholesale coaching turnover on both sides of the ball could hamper what has the opportunity to be a really good season.

With regards to the tweet, you can do whatever you want with a personal account. But that doesn't change the fact that that when embedded or re-tweeted, it certainly has the look of an official TKP account. Also, I'm not sure that anyone has ever said anything in a calm mind using all caps. At the end of the day, it's just Twitter, but this site has pretty good access to the program and generally a reputation for level-headedness. The content I pay for is derived from those principles. I would hate to see a mistaken tweet compromise that.

I can appreciate the optimism, but what is everyone not getting about the fact that we scored 3 TDs (21 points) in the 3rd quarter and 3 FGs (9 points) the rest of the way. That screams ineptitude to me, not in-game adjustments.

I love the team we have coming back next season, but I'm not terribly excited if everything on the offensive staff stays the same.

Is it basketball season yet?

He needs to nail the DC hire. Other than that, I disagree with all of it

Ehh not this again.

Edit: Joe needs a Twitter version of a DD. Someone who will change his passwords or take his tweet machines when things get bad.

Using /s is for cowards.

We should all probably leave the keyboard for a while (assuming this is real).

Account must have been hacked.

This is cringeworthingly bad. Especially from our official Twitter account. Get a grip and handle your alcohol.

I'm not drunk. I had a beer during the game and stand by what I said.

Would feel better if you had had 11 beers. Love you tho.

Then I hope you understand why we feel it's inappropriate.

We would prefer you to have access to coaching staff than to voice your personal opinion after an emotional loss. Is Joe Lanza The Key Play? Or is the fan role different?

There's a journalism role here that's different from the fan role.

When you edit your comment when you catch downvotes it makes it tough to respond to your original thought. It's helpful if you can note with an "Edit:".

You deserve to tweet what you want to tweet. I don't agree with the opinion but you definitely deserve the right to speak your mind.

Maybe Joe should qualify comments like this as "In my personal opinion ......" or similar.

"If you think you can or if you think you can't, you're probably right." Mark Twain

I edited this post to word it better, not because it got negative votes - I never saw any. Nothing substantive changed. I hope you understand that it's a sincere thought, and not an attempt to be overly critical.

Anyway, I offered a perspective.

You should not be be tweeting personal opinions from your website account, that you charge money for in an attempt to get media cedentials.

Wait, what?

He has media credentials so I mean your point is mute moot.

What's
Important
Now

I'm guessing you mean moot.

What's
Important
Now

1. Media credentials are a smoking gun. Other than having a photographer at football and basketball games, TKP doesn't leverage them at all because we don't have the resources.

2. Plenty of credentialed media provide their opinions on things. If you want TKP's Twitter presence to simply tweet play-by-play, that's not the strategy (for better or worse).

I'm uncomfortable with the organizers of this site taking a strong opinion like that, as if they represent all of our opinions. It is reflective of the Bruce Smiff thread, but on twitter.

Four games ago, it would have been "Fire Fuente".

In my opinion, right after a game like this is the wrong time to post that if you don't have a well-considered agenda.

It's incendiary language at an emotional time.

Ok Boomer

What's
Important
Now

100!!!

Pour some Beer on it

Ok Karen... As well

What's
Important
Now

I'm uncomfortable with the organizers of this site taking a strong opinion like that, as if they represent all of our opinions

I don't see anywhere that leaves the impression this is the opinion of everyone who uses the site. Even if you viewed it as the official position of TKP, how does it become the official position of TKP and all who read/use it? Seems like quite a stretch to me. You can read and participate in a site without agreeing with everything that site does and posts. (That being said I could see the merit of separating a professional and personal account but it doesn't bother me one way or the other)

In my opinion, right after a game like this is the wrong time to post that if you don't have a well-considered agenda.

If you've followed the account it's not like this was something new. Joe has questioned play calling and coaching throughout the year. Is it a "well-considered agenda" if coaches have underperformed at times and Joe calls it when he sees it, or are the coaches just not doing a great job...

Bruh

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I'll just say this, as a TKPC member, this doesn't bother me. If people want to talk about it being a positive/negative representation of the site they can visit it and see similar comments and make their basis of that as well. Viewing right now isn't ideal, nor after any loss, due to the toxicity a loss can cause. Just my thoughts.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Fine, I'll edit.

Nothing says "I am a very reasonable person whom you should take seriously" like an all-caps rant demanding that 75% of an organization be fired.

I've been flirting with joining the key players club. Tweets like this push me toward buying more beer instead, because many more like this will put a low ceiling on how much access TKP can get. I'm not interested in investing in anything that kneecaps itself via temper tantrums.

Hard, smart, tough.

The all-caps aren't a rant. Every tweet during football season used to be all-caps. Nowadays it's usually during Tech games.

TKP doesn't depend on access it has for content. Its film reviews, columns, interviews and advanced stats all provide unique perspectives and insights you won't get elsewhere. That's an advantage. TKP doesn't feel burdened to hold water for any staff in order to get access as other outlets might have to. Frankly and personally I try to call it as I see it. I laid out objective reasons (more than a 280 character limit allows) for why I stand by those thoughts. I'm all ears for your counter argument.

Enjoy the beer! 🍻

Edit: Grammar

What I'm not sure you're fully appreciating is that, like it or not, your readers have come to identify with your site. That's a huge compliment, and not an easy thing to do. It may not be rational, but when I see an official TKP tweet like that, I cringe. Because I feel like it in some way represents me. THAT is why you're getting as much blowback as you are.

Now, maybe you don't give a shit. If your only aspirations are to make this Joe Lanza's sandbox, that's entirely your prerogative and nothing to apologize for. Alternatively, you might consider that TKP has become successful enough that its Twitter page isn't the place for your gut reactions. It's easy enough to make another account for your own, undiluted take on things. My opinion is that it reflects poorly on the site to take such extreme postures (firing 75% of the coaching staff is absolutely draconian and would all but guarantee that this year is the last year in the bowl streak) as the official page position.

I don't really agree with firing Corny, and I'm not terribly interested in debating it. I don't see it as an entirely crazy position, I just don't think it's appropriate yet.

Firing 3/4 coaches, all at once, however, is *bonkers*.

Tl/dr: people love your site. It's become bigger than you. Use a sock for calling for everyone's head. Use TKP main Twitter to build the sites' rep, credibility and membership base.

Hard, smart, tough.

Foster retired, I believe Cornelsen should get replaced. Those new coordinators should have the opportunity to bring their people with them. That's another reason why I am in favor of such a large percentage of turnover. I don't agree it's an extreme posture after a Year Four with a middling offense and the DC retiring.

I'm not saying it's an easy decision either.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts.

I left this site for a year to distance myself from the Twitter feed and the poisonous negativity of parts of the community after a lackluster season but came back because I missed the fun I was having. Then this again. I would never call out Joe for it as his raucous all caps Twitter feed led me here to start with while I was in college. It was amateur and hilarious but still leaned toward silver linings in bad scenarios. But the entitled kneejerk overreactions that has plagued this fanbase lately is seeping into every corner. I'm guilty of it too. Joe can do what he wants but I'm not a paying subscriber so I'm inclined to ignore it and go next door.

Yesterday sucked but our future is undeniably bright. Regardless of hires/fires. I'm excited. I wish there was a community of people to be excited with.

People see the TKP account as a reflection or voice of the fanbase, unfortunately.

"Yeah, it do." - Mike Vick

Yeah I bought a key players club membership right before this season. The constant coach bashing from his twitter and TKP comments this year REALLY makes me want my money back. I can get that garbage elsewhere. I'm here for French's articles and that's it at this point but I won't be renewing my subscription next year after all this crap

- "And now Miami wants to talk about it..."

To dispel the notion I'm only a coach basher... I have been critical of the coaches because it's been warranted. I've also given props too.

The former happens more often than the latter as of late, but that's a function of performance and calling it straight (at least as I see it), not an agenda.

I posted this on the other thread but copy pasted here for posterity:

Look at the stats for today's game. Nearly 500 yards of offense. But so did they. And, we had 4 turn over (3 if you remove the hail Mary). And 8 penalties for 141 yards.

That's why we lost. Not due to corny and his play calling, but the blind naysayers won't take their head out of the sand.

I replied to you on the other thread, but these two things are not mutually exclusive. The team didn't play terribly well and Corny did not call a particularly good game. Both of those things are facts today.

Is it basketball season yet?

What both things are facts today? I don't think I agree with what you claim and facts. I mean, what do you want as a metric of a well called game? A thousand yards? Two thousand? Every play goes for a TD? Is he responsible for the turn overs? Is he responsible for giving up the long runs by Perkins?

Team did not play well, and I'm not saying corny called a perfect game, but he didn't call a bad one enough for him to be fired. He called a good game. That is the fact.

For beginners, did you watch the first half or did you skip that part entirely?

Is it basketball season yet?

Ad hominem? Ok cool.

Yes I did watch the first half. You clearly missed the turn-overs that stalled us. And you didn't answer my question of what a good game-plan / calling by corny would be - because the original statement that I debunked was that "Corny didn't call a good game".

Further, did you not watch the second half of the game? Did you not see how we exploded? Did you not see the overall stats that I posted? All this brings me back to my original point - what exactly would you want to see Corny have done to have "called a good game"? A thousand yards?

Understand what you're trying to rage about before trying to argue with me without facts to back yourself up.

See the other thread...

Is it basketball season yet?

He called a good game. That is the fact.

You cited no facts.

I did earlier in my post. Not my fault you can't scroll up to read it. But i'll copy-paste it here again for you:

look at the stats for today's game. Nearly 500 yards of offense. But so did they. And, we had 4 turn over (3 if you remove the hail Mary). And 8 penalties for 141 yards.

For offense those are good stats. Not cornys fault we had penalties and turn overs. Not his either that we can't stop Perkins from having over 450 yards of offense on his own.

So, for an entire game - consider nearly 500 yards of offense and 30 points despite 4 turn overs and 141 yards of penalties - yes that was good calling.

we left at least 2 TDS on the field because Corn decided FGs were acceptable inside the 10 after 1st down.

2 turnovers were somewhat coaching staff inflicted. A Hail Mary because the staff went into a shell with 1:40 and 2 timeouts before halftime. A fumble in end zone once we were down 9.

Defense went neutral and the offense had red zone issues. This loss has a lot of coaching staff issues all over it.

we left at least 2 TDS on the field because Corn decided FGs were acceptable inside the 10 after 1st down.

That's a decision of Fuente. Not Corn. He has no say if we go for a FG or a TD. Also, the second FG was due to the fact we had a penalty on the reverse TD.

There was another team out there too, playing defense, and their job is to stop you from scoring. Every time you settle for a field goal doesn't mean that Corny sucks. Or that it's a foregone conclusion or expectation that you're scoring a touchdown just because you have first and goal. Maybe give some credit to the other team as well.

Nice... downvoting instead of using logic

Is it basketball season yet?

Lol at everyone giving shit to Joe for his opinion. If this program is interested in incremental improvement and getting better, we need a better OC. That isn't some drastic hot take.

Yeah... except that's not all the tweet said.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

FUENTE NEEDS TO FIRE HIS FRIEND, CORNELSEN, NOT EFF UP BUD'S REPLACEMENT, AND FIRE ABOUT 75% OF THE ASSISTANT COACHES.

Is that too much for you? We could easily replace a few coaches. I don't necessarily agree with 75%, but some of you are getting way too emotional about this.

Since you asked....

Personally, I find it representative of a shift I have perceived in the demeanor of the site and community over the past year to normalizing and supporting more personal and vindictive stances, both toward VT staff and TKP users. There was a momentary reprieve during the winning streak but, as a whole, I am finding that TKP often has a more negative effect on my mood than positive recently. I hope others are getting something they're looking for and that I'm just the odd one out right now but that's my 2 cents.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I dunno man. Calling the practice of calling out an underachieving coach 'vindictive' seems pretty extreme to me - likely why we have differing opinions over the seriousness of it all.

He's had 1 season with over 4 losses in 4 years here, what exactly does he need to do to not be labeled an underachiever?

We've had a lot of firsts so far in his tenure. First losing record in 25 years, first lost by 30+ in Lane since the 70s, first team to lose the Cup in 15 years. Not exactly the firsts we had in mind when he was hired.

He has a better winning % vs uva than his predecessor.

How easily we forget we've also seen a plethora of offensive records fall in his 4 years. Which is a big part of why he was brought in

I think we could have employed two dogs humping a watermelon on offense and broken records. In all seriousness, any semblance of a modern offense was going to break records given how historically bad we had been on that side of the ball.

You either completely missed or willfully ignored my point. It's not about one tweet or one underperforming coach. As someone who has been a part of the community for 6 years longer than yourself, I'm telling you that I believe there's a significant difference in the sense of community and respect on TKP. You're welcome to ignore it or say you don't care if you wish but it's what I feel and it's not up for debate.

#respectmydecision #800%committed

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I think there are more dominant voices that post a lot that are driving that direction, but yes sometimes I am bewildered about what's posted here. At times it's the worst of the worse fan wise. It's made me rethink automatic renewal for the first time this past year.

Meta: Not trying to single you out Dave, but this is a reason why the whole "support it if you can model" didn't work for TKP.

Joe, not a problem. What continues to sway me to support this site is the excellent coverage your team provides, especially French whom I throughly enjoy, and why I choose to support this site.

I appreciate that, and I also respect TKPer's decision to not support TKP for whatever reason they choose. That's why I believe the new content model works best for both parties. Sweat equity, time, energy and money goes into the content TKP publishes and that doesn't change based on other factors.

Nah brah I meant to pull my tkp account but didnt prior to paying for another year but this site has gotten pretty bad in the last 2 years. I'm not enjoying it anymore. Dunno why dunno how but it's gotten super vindictive and angry

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

No one is mad at him for having an opinion. Some are questioning of having his personal Twitter account have the name of the website and the logo.

Now you will see other fan bases saying, look at thekeyplay melting down and look at how pissed they all are based on the tweet. It's a bad look.

Have whatever your opinion you want bro.

Hey bro - it's his site and his opinion. Not sure why it matters what you OR I think about that. It isn't our call.

Edit* Deleted

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

Have whatever your opinion you want bro.

/Downvotes based on opinion.

Β―\_(ツ)_/Β―

Nah

I'm still not convinced this mysterious muddy field didn't screw up the first half play calling due to our inability to keep our footing.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Came here for the comradery and found a divided TKP, SMH.
We'll get'em next year, I can alk but guarantee that!

uva - the taint of the ACC
XL Jockstraps 34 - Ascots 31
#15 Straight

I'm with you bud, I only see an upside for our team next year. We started this one STRUGGLING, and somehow clawed our way back. UVA played a great game, and I don't hate a rivalry game that gets competitive (Actually, its my favorite thing - better for national looks and recruiting when we can be on a network station and play a game as close as both teams did).

The monkey of needing - to win to maintain a streak is off our back, and we return 21/22 starters next year while Perkins and his receiving corps will graduate. Even outside of this game, I've got some pretty solid expectations for our team. Besides that, I'd love to be in the last year of the Belk Bowl now that they won't sponsor it anymore...no other bowl compares...

I'm sure this is a minority opinion, but I don't think Fuente makes a change, and I'm not sure if one is warranted yet. I think bringing Kill in as an analyst has tipped his hand to not making any changes. I'm not as down on the offense as everyone else, frankly because for the last 20+ years VT hasn't been an offense first team.

The biggest difference between this year and last year was defensive improvements. I feel like if you score 30 in a game, you should win that game.

I think continuity on a staff is a good thing, And I'm interested to see where this defensive hire goes. But VT needs to continue an upward trend on being able to run the ball and being great o defense.

Look at it this way. We are 15-1 since the last loss and now the players won't have this over their heads when they play next year. Should make the players and coaches hungrier and without that expectation and the knowledge that the uva game is no longer a gimme We'll perform better in the future. I do agree Cornelson needs to no longer be calling VTs plays and we need to slam dunk this DC position. I'm more interested in who those people will be and when they can get to work.

It is a natural gift I posess to create friction in sensitive situations.

I see Cornelsen getting 1 year either way to see what he does when we have a new DC. But I would gladly enjoy being wrong. All in all he wasn't the reason we lost today 4 turnovers were the reason we lost, you can't turn the ball over 4 times in a CLOSE game and expect to win

Go for it

One of the turnovers was an INT on a Hail Mary to end the half. Another turnover was a long INT on a 3rd and 20 where we were just going to punt on the next play. They other two turnovers hurt us, but IMO they were not the reason we lost the game.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

I agree completely. Those two were out of desperation, and also absolutely inconsequential to the outcome. Had either play worked, we likely would have won.

Meh, I don't necessarily agree on the 3rd down interception. The routes run were terrible and punting them down inside the 20 yard line may change the end of the game. May not, but we will never know.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Not this year. Get the new DC in place and see what the coaches and this team (all returning but Floyd) does next season. I believe all facets will he better.

Assuming no one transfers...

the only reason players are going to transfer is because they are going to buried on the depth chart. Players aren't going to leave b/c we lost to UVA.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I don't want to get involved in this debate other than to say what was up with the Mike London-esque time management at the end of the first half? We wasted a full 30-35 seconds in not calling a timeout when it was still the Hoover's ball, plus there was hardly any sense of urgency at all in the huddle and snap lineup process. At the end of the game (after the sack-6) it was almost the same thing, except by then it didn't matter much.

At times today we did some head-scratching things on both sides of the ball. But ultimately the landscape block smashing team was the one that played with their hair more on fire and with fewer mistakes. Bronco has done a good job. An amazing job, really, considering the culture he had to (and still works to) overcome.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

if anyone would have said before the game that VT is going to put up 30 points, with the way our defense was playing, who would have thought we were going to lose??

I'm not on the fire corny train but I guess i'm not against it either. I really have no idea. I haven't watched a game where I questioned every call. Some? Sure but the majority of the game? No. There is OC in the country who we are going to love every call and every game he calls. The players also effect the play-calling, missing an assignment, the defense has a say as well.

Again, not calling for corn's head but if the team want's to go another direction i'm not against it. I just don't know who we would bring in that would be some massive upgrade.

(granted I didn't watch the 2-3 and most of the 4th qtr of this game or the Duke game.)

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

For all his faults, at least Loeffler didn't lose to UVA. He also never had a losing season. 2/3 post season Ws. Also racked up a W over the eventual National Champions.

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

Loeffler's offenses averaged 21 points per game against UVA. Cornelsen's offenses have averaged 31.5 points per game against UVA.

But sure everything negative with the program, real or imagined, has to be Cornelsen's fault.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

The stat that matters most to me, is Wins or Losses in that series. Corny now has a L. With this roster.

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

So you think the individual that has the greatest influence over wins and losses is an offensive coordinator?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I don't see us realistically getting rid of Fuente, so gotta start with the next best option.

Wanted: an Offensive Coordinator that can unleash the full potential of the roster. I'd absolutely bring in Chad Morris, if possible.

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

I don't think as highly of Chad Morris as you obviously. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. What is the full potential of the offense. I promise you no coordinator is going to score every possession. The biggest complaint I have heard of Corny this year is not playing Hooker sooner. I have to believe that there were sound reasons why and absolutely think that was Fuente's decision, not Corny. Since Notre Dame, the offense has forced the opponent to play our game plan and frankly I have been impressed with the coaching.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

It's not just the decision to not play Hooker sooner. The guy has very little feel for what play to call in what situation during a game. Sometimes we get so far behind the sticks that I feel some calls are just to kill the drive so he can have time to figure something out. And he cannot make adjustments in-game. Any adjustments are made before the game and during the half. If it doesn't work or if the defense adapts, we are screwed because we are going to keep forcing something until it works. We ran into the teeth of the UVA D and barely tested their secondary the entire first half yesterday. It's just almost a tone-deafness when it comes to feeling out the situation on offense and what the defense is giving us and taking away.

What we were doing on offense worked through 3 quarters.

What we were doing on offense worked in the third quarter. 1st half = 6 points. Multiple first and goals that ended with field goals. Horrific on third down.

Sure, but we had an edge after 3 quarters.

I saw some lapses in execution yesterday that I wouldn't be willing to blame on the play caller.

We had an edge after 1 quarter: the 3rd. Consequently, that's when we attacked their secondary and had a nice mix of quick throws and runs to keep them off balance. Then we suddenly went back to mamby pamby, slow developing plays. Executing was definitely a problem, and not one person is arguing that it wasn't. The play calls leave a lot to be desired, and we see no improvement in that over the course of the season.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

I thought the play calling vs Pitt was pretty good. Also, Notre Dame.

You can cherry pick if you want, but as a whole his play calling over the season has been subpar at best. Pitt also wasn't spectacular, had some good stretches but we also ran Hooker a lot more in stupid situations than we needed to.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

I wasn't cherry picking. I was giving some examples where our offensive game plan seemed to work well against some well-regarded defenses.

In the context of this conversation (the UVA game) you were cherry picking. It's irrelevant if he called a decent game against ND three(?) weeks ago. We're talking about his play calling yesterday. Which was good for 1/4 quarters.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

I was responding in to YOUR comment:

we see no improvement in that over the course of the season.

You brought in that context.

And...we don't πŸ€·πŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

I can't remember who I heard say it, but in an interview about the team's offensive success, he said you have to be willing to run when a pass is expected and pass when a run is expected.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Just need them outscore the opponent, by the end of the game. There are far too many stretches under Corny, where the offense gets shutdown. We started the season coughing up the pigskin, numerous times. We ended the season, the same way.

There are times when the defense can compensate for the lack of offense, but we expected the offense to carry the team a lot more after 2015.

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

I bet if you watch most college offenses, there are up and down times of success. It is a chess match.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Part of outscoring the opponent is limiting their score.

While we expected more offense, our defense has been exploitable in some games. They had our number yesterday.

A couple of comments:
1. For all of you guys unhappy with Joe, the man puts a huge chunk of his life into TKP. It's his baby, and if he wants to express his opinion on his twitter account, and you're not comfortable with it, don't blame Joe. Freedom of expression doesn't guarantee you being comfortable with someone else's opinion. I may or may not agree with any number of opinions expressed here, but I enjoy reading them from the standpoint that they make me think through my own opinions. If you can't expand your mind to understand that others may disagree, there is little anyone can say to help you. Personally, I appreciate Joe's efforts to make TKP a great forum.
2. Yesterday's game was a loss. Yes a bitter one (it's gonna be a loooong year in Hooville), but it's just a game. Life is bigger than a game. Have some perspective.
3. Whether or not we retain some/any/all of the coaching staff, the players deserve our support. We are Virginia Tech. Act like it. FAM in wins, FAM in losses.

Stepping off soapbox now.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

I'll say this, I'm not sure the players could have better performed the package that was called for them yesterday. Yes, there were a could drops and some penalties, but they were not put in the best position to win, and they still made something out of it. Hooker had a great game and it's a shame it all fell apart like it did. The fact it was even close is a testament to the talent and heart of the players we have.

Now we just need some playcallers who will consistently capitalize on that talent by scheming to attack weaknesses and give ourselves the advantage on a play to play basis. Right now we don't have that. I don't care how good King, McClease, and Hooker are, we aren't going to win many games by repeatedly rushing them straight into the teeth of a stacked box on 2nd and 3rd and very long when the weakness is outside.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Maybe this puts a target on me, too, but I think everyone telling Joe how to run his company is out of line and the people offended by his tweet are over sensitive. Feels like an extension of outrage culture.

Recruit Prosim

I'm triggered! /s

I can only speak for me, but I can say I wasn't offended. But, anybody from outside the program is going to have a hard time differentiating between official hokie sports outlets, beat writers, and TKP. I cringe to see TKP Twitter calling for coaches to be fired. I have zero problem with Joe having the opinion, even if I don't agree with it. But a handle very easily confused with official coverage is doing the program no favors by calling for firings.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

The handle confusion I think is one point, and I've also thought that TheKeyPlay is the flagship product of Orange and Maroon Media, LLC. With the emphasis in the past on hiring a full time reporter and the name of the organization implying media, I'd always viewed TKP as a media outlet. So my thoughts align to whether I view my support for TKP as a media organization for purposes of creating the content I'm looking for along with what I'm not actually supporting but comes along as part of the package.

Neither Joe nor The Key Play as a company are obligated to be a cheerleader for the program and paint everything in a positive light. In fact, sometimes the most useful thing media and fans can do is voice their opinions

Recruit Prosim

The reason that the media exists is to give a critical eye to the ongoing matters upon which it reports. Being a cheerleader for whatever topic it is that you're covering is a one way ticket to allow that entity to run unchecked and out of control. It's how things like Jerry Sandusky at Penn State or Art Briles at Baylor happens.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Cool and people may or may not decide to support the company based on the views expressed. Is that ok or do we need your permission to feel that way?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

That's up to you, but you're still posting on the site... so you must be fine with it

Recruit Prosim

If I'm openly saying I'm not fine with it, I'm not fine with it. You chose to attend Virginia Tech after the shooting but you'd be rightfully offended if someone said, "oh, you must be fine with shootings."

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Hold up I see where y'all are coming from right now but maybe we should hold up a sec cause this might go to places we don't want to go. Love y'all.

Fam. Yes. Let's please stop while we all still have our pants.

Yeah, our offense did such a terrible job stopping Bryce Perkins.

Everyone needs to stop with these crazy hot takes before this becomes the toxic cesspool that is the 247 board

Too late. We're 17 points from being a 1 loss team but everyone should be fired.

"Yeah, it do." - Mike Vick

We're also 9 points from not making a bowl......

They were also 16 points from being a 5 win team.

I disagree with the opinion expressed in this thread, but I respect the opinion.

However, Joe, when you make strong takes on Twitter it does reflect on me because my friends know I am a member of tkp. I don't agree with your take and don't want to be associated with it.

Get a private twitter account or take my key away and take me off the auto renew List.

I appreciate your support of TKP, but please don't present me an ultimatum. If you want to cancel your membership, email me and I'm happy to take care of it. Thanks.

Y'all, I appreciate all your feedback and support and I will absorb it and continue to adjust and take TKP in the best direction possible. This thread has gotten super meta based on the original topic and I locked it.