I Didn't Appreciate Frank Enough

I'm currently watching 2002 VT-Marshall for the first time. Why? I grew up in NC and ACC Basketball has been my college sports foundation. I went to VT as a freshman in 2005. Football became something entirely different for me. It was a newfound outlet to express my college sport passion. That being said, I happened into a spoiled setup. Beamer was a seasoned coach. Our defense and special teams set the tone for every. single. game. It was blue collar and relatable. It was fun.

In watching this 2002 Marshall game, it is uncomfortably obvious why our fan base is having its current identity crisis. Frank set a tone. Frank had a presence. A stat was put up on the screen regarding special team play and blocked kicks. This was what you expected from a Hokie football team. Again, it was fun. Hell, I came in after this and I knew this is what you expected. As a fan, this is what you screamed about till you had no voice till the following Wednesday.

Frank found a niche. He found something he could exploit and make our team nationally relevant. The unfortunate thing is., it's nothing special anymore. Because of that we have to reassess what our team is about. I think most of our fan base wants to knock our opponent into the dirt and try to dominate. We used to do that. I'll never forget saving my a friend of mine from falling down the East Stands in the 2005 GT game following King's blocked kick. We made GT feel small, and it was amazing.

I think Fuente or whatever coach that coaches VT has to find its "Frank-ness." They don't have to do it exactly like him. Football, like anything in life, evolves. However, they have to establish what VT football is about in a way the people who support it can get behind. That's how you get fans to buy in. That's how you get recruits to buy in. That's how you get players to play every single down like it means the world.

It's been written on this site that we, as a fan base, have a lot of fear. I think we, as a fan base, long for what we are familiar with. We want stability. We want identity. We want to dominate.

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Good shit man. I can't point to what the issue is but this team (and I reckon last years too) just don't feel like our old teams. I think you're spot on.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

This is good stuff...I never appreciated CFB until he was gone...that's on me. What I wouldn't do to see him back on the sideline nowadays. Grass is greener and all that....still, could be worse we could be Tennessee

or UNC with a dinosaur roaming the sidelines.


After the Pimpleton/Trevon tweet earlier today, it's fair to say the locker room cancers were real.

This is the transition year Fuente needs to right the ship. We might not get to ten wins, or dominate every game, but the players will be fighting. Think 2010. Tough start, then started squeaking out wins. There were leaders in that locker room, and I feel it with this team too. Only difference is we don't know what we have in Fuente. I think this will be the year that will tell it like it is.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

What tweet are you referring?

Lmao the bums that left the program all sound like crazy ass ex girlfriends that just can't keep your name out of their mouths.

Whenever I see Travon talking shit again:

Not to mention Dejuan Ellis chimes in. Definitely an ex girlfriend mentality. Both WR's wouldn't see the field so they run their mouths on social media. #NBA

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

Oh, look who is in the replies.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

In 4 games, Hill has 3 solo tackles and one sack.

Enjoy your irrelevancy.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Hill is an ass and needed to go, but he would still be our best DE this year. hands down.

Perhaps he shouldn't have gotten kicked off his third football team so that he could showcase his talents.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I agree this is the transition year we learn a lot about Fuente. However, I can't help but feel this bye week going into this Duke game is really going to set the tone. Beamer would address the issues and right the ship. He did it time and time again. Again, it's what we are used to as a fanbase. Can Fuente do it? I really like to think he can.

However, I also talked about with my friends tonight how Fuente must be super excited that ODU showed up against Uva....

However, I also talked about with my friends tonight how Fuente must be super excited that ODU showed up against Uva....

Honestly I doubt Fuente gives a damn beyond what playing a common opponent could potentially reveal about the matchup later in the season. The idea that Fuente was giddy when ODU went up 17-0 because he thought that might get some fans off his back would be unfathomably shortsighted and pointless.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I'm certain you're right that Fuente doesn't care. But it sure as hell made me happy.

To quote the great Homer Simpson, "Sometimes the only way you can feel good about yourself is by making someone else look bad. And I'm tired of making other people feel good about themselves."

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

You're probably right. However, he spoke about the circus surrounding the program a couple of weeks ago and anything that slows down the circus is something he probably doesn't ignore completely. If I were him and was challenged on the team's performance I would note this as a small part of a case for where the team is right now - which is different than saying that he'll talk about it, or that it affects anything about how he handles stuff or thinks about his team.

The damage is done - we are on a correction course on multiple fronts. Support the coach on his journey to make the thing we share a mutual passion for better. Have some fun. Put the pitchforks down.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I actually met a girl yesterday that claimed she dated Trevon. I quote, "A great player and a total asshat."

"I'll put a quote here to distract you from my inane comment."-Me

I live in Pac-12 country and I've heard "you think you've got it bad, try being a UCLA fan"....well, I got nothing for that. They just threw a 61 yard pass while 62 yards from the end zone before the half...derp

One thing that might have been lost is that Shibest had the #1 ranked special teams unit in 2015. In Fuentes first 3 seasons we had 12 blocked kicks/punts. In Frank's last 6 seasons we had 12 blocked kicks/punts. We still have some pretty good special teams play. Things have changed, but our special teams play hasn't (unless you're just remembering the 90s when we rushed the punter all the time even when it wasnt a good time to do so)

I grew up watching VT punch over its weight for the early years, and I really admired them during that period. It drew me to attend VT, and I was used to seeing them compete with the biggest schools.

I hope we find a way through this, into something that is more inspirational and strong, like, what Frank built.....

It's a little disappointing that Frank is moving to a smaller house, because in how much he has contributed to the Blacksburg community, he should be living in a palace.

That's by choice. Frank said he didn't need that much space since he doesn't have a full house. Probably a lot easier to get around in smaller digs too.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

Great stuff. The biggest rub for me is that, for any person who has followed VT football for any length, you could see the storm coming. Frank Beamer did unprecedented things and elevated this program beyond belief. But we could taste a little poison in the well as far back as 12 years ago. It's been a slow and steady decline for any of us who follow the program closely.

What did we want in a head coach when CFB retired? I hope I speak for the majority when I say elevating recruiting and bringing a good offense to VT were the main driving reasons. So much so that Bud didn't get a sniff at the job - a guy who was once thought to be the heir apparent.

So here we are with Fuente at the helm. I loved him the first year, and I thought he was taking what our VT identity was and building on it, becoming a part of the legacy and improving. It became apparent quickly that he was here to tear everything down and start from scratch. That's going to ruffle a lot of feathers in Franksburg, especially when you aren't winning.

I just want VT football to get back to its roots again. And I hope Fuente can realize that. We are more talented than the three teams we have played this far, but we play like we aren't. I still have faith that Fuente wants to improve based upon the Kill hire. Let's see if they can right the ship.

It became apparent quickly that he was here to tear everything down and start from scratch.

Hm, so that's actually what the 25 jersey represents?

Anyway I don't agree with this statement at all. Fuente has a different approach than Beamer with regards to running the team but he's only said kind things about VT and its traditions, and tried to instill new ones that respect VT's history. Why would he keep Foster if he was trying to distance himself from everything Beamer? Why would he hire Justin Hamilton and Pierson Prioleau in the past few months?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I think it was Whit that asked Fuente to retain Foster - so I don't think Fuente had a choice but to work to retain him.

I think the one thing the fan base has been expecting as far as our 'new identity' is that we'd have a high-powered offense and elite level QB play from the "QB Whisperer." That obviously hasn't been the case.

The retelling of the story has indicated that Fuente did have the choice on keeping Foster.

I do agree that fans expected to take what was perceived as the best parts of the Beamer identity- elite defense and special teams- and simply plug in a high-powered offense. However, I think looking back that fans, myself included, took for granted that Beamer was a Hall of Fame coach and taking what he had success with and improving it was never going to be such an easy task. It's also possible that us fans underestimated how integral a ball control offense was to the Beamer identity.

Also you used the term QB whisperer just to mess with me, right? Because I've addressed that in excruciating detail and I'm not going down the road on that one again.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Whit has always made it crystal clear that it was Fuente's choice whether to keep Bud or not. The QB whisperer is a media label.

We need both our offense AND defense to step up their game for the remainder of the season.

I think it was Whit that asked Fuente to retain Foster - so I don't think Fuente had a choice but to work to retain him.

This is like a bad version of the telephone game.

Let's Go


Not Whit. Fu wanted to work with Bud. Step away from the torches and pitchforks.



It has been discussed before on this board.
Identity is the operative word - and the thing that is lacking. The identity that made VT great was special teams, defense, and a running game. To me, the commonality between these things is that they can all be executed well by giving effort. They don't rely on speed or strength, though those help. This meant we could acheive our identity with less-than-5 star recruits. You might say we could win by being "hard, smart, tough". I think Fuente rightly chose to stick with that identity. It fits the school, the program, and the cultural identity of the area well. The problem seems to be that Frank WAS the essence of this identity and Fuente is trying to learn to become it. I have seen this in my professional life when new executives try to evolve a culture that used to be good, but is in need of updating. How to you keep what was good and add something more? It is very tough to do well. It is easier when you win, as you have proof that your way works. When you don't, buy in gets tougher to come by. It remains to be seen if Fuente can ever build a true cultural identity for this team.

It's an absolute mystery what the staff is attempting to build or how they believe they're differentiating VT football. "Hard. Smart. Tough" cant even be considered our 'identity' because we look like the exact opposite on the field.

This. I have absolutely no idea what Fuente wants our team to excel in

jet sweeps duh.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

Bubble screens for 2 yards or fewer.

Hard Smart Tough is nothing but a twitter hash tag that we think is going to somehow help us recruit.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

If you see these characters, they represent specific people (as of Oct. 2):

Palpatine (Fuente) || Vader (Hooker) (probationary)

Hokie religions and ancient run games are no match for a loose cannon under center.

- Han Fuente

I also remember the CFB years where we were ridiculed for not knowing what the forward pass was. lol

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

True, but it was at least exciting knowing we had about an equal chance to score on defense or ST as we did on offense. Those days are long gone, and we're still stuck with a total offense in the 70s.

I remember people complaining about the offense.

One that was often outscored by the defense and special teams. If VT let the other team get ahead, it was likely game over.

This might still be true, the percentages are just lower. /s

A lot of fans didn't appreciate Frank, and now a lot of fans don't appreciate Fuente.

Our special teams and defense aren't up to old standards. And the offense isn't yet a powerhouse. The team is in transition, and as such, appears to not have an identity.

I'm hoping that Fuente can succeed. But I also think we need to give him this year and probably next year to show some positive traction. The fans' patience isn't going to be unlimited though.

I also think we need to give him this year and probably next year to show some positive traction.

I agree 100%.

A lot of fans didn't appreciate Frank, and now a lot of fans don't appreciate Fuente.

I don't think it's fair to compare appreciating a hall of fame, living-legend coach who elevated an absolutely nothing college football program to a national power and finished his career with the 6th most wins in Div. I/FBS history with a coach who could quite possibly not even be a head football coach by 2021.

Beamer earned near-universal adulation and respect from the entire college football world. Fuente has earned patience from the fans for about 20 more games.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I wasn't comparing the coaches, I was comparing the fans. The fans will not be as patient with Fuente as they were with Beamer early in his VT career. The game has certainly changed, as have the fans, and instant gratification is the norm these days.

It is really disappointing to see so many fans calling for Fuente to be fired right now. That's a premature overreaction in my opinion, and I'd want to see the season play out before calling it a failure.

That being said, at the end of the 2020 season that will have been five years. If the team isn't winning by that time, I wouldn't see any reason to be optimistic about the next five.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

instant gratification is the norm these days.

We also don't have the financial luxury to watch the ship sink for 2 more years. The football team funds the entire department. The buyout is $3M a year over 5. If we end up with 6 wins this year, how much do you think we're going to lose during re-seating efforts and when Lane has 42k fans showing up for games?

I don't think you have the buyout numbers right. Fuente's contract got extended, so his buyout this year isn't $3M.

Also, I see no reason to make decisions right now based on estimates of numbers of wins. We'll know the actual numbers soon enough. I'm an advocate of giving Fuente the benefit of the doubt in the mean time.

Fuente's contract got extended, so his buyout this year isn't $3M

The buyout is $3M a year over 5

It is $15M, as been discussed, but if we reach the point where we're loosing upwards of $3M a year in revenue, which is totally realistic, it begins making more financial sense to move on.

It makes sense financially to give Fuente every opportunity to see his plan to fruition, as opposed to paying his buyout AND having to hire another coach (and paying the premium to compete with other teams to pay a lot for a new coach).

We can hardly keep up with the Jones' already, let along pay multiple head coaches.

We had our worst year in 25 last year. This year is not looking to be much better against the worst P5 schedule there is.

I get it. Every thread you say 'we dont' have enough data' or 'Fuente needs more time,' but in reality, it's not like we're any closer this year than we were in year 2. You think we win 9-10 games next year? The fact we'll have ANOTHER new QB? You trust Fuente to hire a new DC and get that system implemented? The 70th best recruiting class coming in got you feeling confident to plug the talent holes we've got on the roster? The fact we've still got the same issues on offense and defense execution, roster management is terrible.... 2020 isn't going to be 'the year' either. So how much longer beyond that are you going to give him? When do you legitimately think we'll see a competitive product out there?

It would be one thing if we were seeing solid improvement somewhere, but kicking the can and just hoping we suddenly see it getting better in year 7, 8, 10? It's only going to make it more challenging for us to get back to winning the ACC, while the rest of the athletic department suffers financially.

Whoever is coaching will be doing it with the same roster. This season isnt over...let's act like this team could actually improve and stop forecasting misery.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Of course 'the team could improve.' But all the teams we play 'can improve' too. The team we're running out now either won't be favored, or will be in toss up games for the remainder of the season, and we're not drastically out-recruiting anyone. In year 4 and the overall player development we've seen across the board, I'm also not quickly putting a ton of stock in the assumption that our staff will somehow 'coach em up' that much more effectively than everyone else we play, again, to get us competing for a conference championship.

I think you're putting yourself in a no-win situation.

One in which the team has to lose to prove you right, which is a hollow victory, or where the team proves you wrong by winning, which makes all this hand-wringing look silly.

So what the point? It's too early in the season to throw in the towel.

Not only have you thrown the towel in for this year, but next year also? That seems extremely pessimistic

Do you think we'll realistically be competing for a Coastal and ACC Championship this year or next? If not, how many years do you think Fuente needs to get us there?

I think that it will be harder than you think, but always was going to be.

But at this moment in time, we're still in the running.

I think we are competing for the Coastal this year. I think next year, with the experience we're returning, it's us and Miami. At least looking at this year, this is less of a defense of Fuente and more of a comment on how terrible i think the rest of the coastal is. UVA just struggled with ODU more than we did and did you catch the Miami/Central Michigan game?

Gobble Till You Wobble

I did and neither looked too impressive, but neither have we. I also think we're actually significantly behind Pitt this year. Duke, UNC, UVA, and Miami will still all be tight games. GT is really the only game I can look at and say "there's no reason for us to lose that game"

So since you have completely written off our current team, lets take a look at it. If you're Whit, who are you bringing in and what is your pitch?

  • Greatest fans and atmosphere in the Country. Well until we aren't winning
  • Family atmosphere. This is home, well until you hit a few bumps and then we are gonna kick your ass to the curb.
  • Money. Oh wait we dont have any.
  • Bud Foster. He is still on camous walking his dog next year.
  • My point is we made a great hire with Fuente (widely regarded as a homerun at the time). If we do not handle the next two years with class, we will lose much of what we are selling as the difference between VT and other programs.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

In the big scheme of college football, two years isn't that big a deal.

VT still has conference championships, winning seasons, bowl streaks, etc.

What we need now are wins and a reasonable fan base.

a reasonable fan base

I was never in the Navy, but I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed.

I've been a sailor all my life, and vessels do turn based on adjustments.

I fundamentally disagree with basically each of your bullets.

  • We still do have great fans. And it doesn't take that much (we've got no National Championships, a handful of bigtime bowl wins) to get the base in a frenzy. We continue to travel well
  • The family atmosphere at VT is bigger than the football program and spreads to the academic and alumni experience as well. Changing football coaches happens, especially if you're not meeting expectations. That culture that was hear long before Fuente wouldn't die with a coaching change, which again, is normal (this is where our fanbase was spoiled by Frank and Bud)
  • We have an AD that will eclipse $100M in revenue this year - likely be closer to $110+. You may be taking too many of Fireman's posts too literally. We're not an SEC or B1G program, but you'd call me out if I acted like we were going to steal a head coach from a B1G or SEC program. We're clearly not, but we're in a lot better shape than many here lead on.
  • Bud is retiring. Coordinators are hired elsewhere, move on, are fired, etc. at every program. Losing a DC isn't a death sentence for the program. If the whole argument here is that Fuente is our guy and will lead us to a conference championship, why would Bud leaving derail our program?
  • Lastly, again, coaching changes happen. Looking at Fuente's body of work and the expectations laid out, I'm not sure how anyone interested in the job would be turned off if he were to be let go. "Handling with class" doesn't mean we're somehow handcuffed and must accept 6-7 seasons. Looking at the other side of the coin, to me, it would show we're committed to winning and getting results that haven't been there.

I was mostly being facetious. But I do have an overall point. You seem to be centrally focused in that other programs replace coaches all the time, so it is ok. But, how often do they improve? Many of the reasons we were able to land Fuente was because we weren't like other programs.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

You seem to be centrally focused in that other programs replace coaches all the time, so it is ok.

We're not going to hire another frank who is here for 25+ years. That's not how life works anymore. We should accept the fact that we'll need to hire new coaches every once in a while.

But, how often do they improve?

Is this serious? Programs never improve after hiring new coaches?

Washington, Washington St. Iowa St, Michigan, A&M, Purdue, Cincinnati, Syracuse, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas...all these schools recently replaced a coach just off the top of my head, which seem to be on a better trajectory than they were.

I never said we need a 25 year coach. Two things: 1. I believe Fuente can still course correct, so relax. 2. I don't think we meet expectations with a hire if we fire Fuente after this season. It is too soon, doesn't make good financial sense, and is not in the best taste after giving him an extension with huge buyout showing trust.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

I wish I could give you more than one leg for this comment, as it's right on the mark.

This is the best I can do:

Correct. New QB, New DC, tougher schedule, same defensive line, same corners, same RB depth. 2020 is not some magic year to me- on paper at least.

Fortunately it doesn't take magic to win the ACC coastal. Just slightly above average football.

Also how is the schedule harder? We trade Notre Dame away for Penn State at home, Wake Forest for Louisville, and then we get UVA, Miami, BC, and GT at home.

Gobble Till You Wobble

So you're telling me we've got a chance gif.

From strictly an ACC perspective, I would say that our schedule next year is the same or slightly easier. We'll have Pitt, UNC, Duke and Louisville on the road next year versus BC, Miami, UVA and GT this year.

We don't play two FCS teams next year. that's how its harder

Except FCS or non-FCS nonconference games don't count toward the ACC standings so they are irrelevant to winning the coastal or ACC.

In all fairness to Fuente, Beamer's last 4 years were not good. We were a combined 29-23, and barely escaped losing seasons a few times. You compare that with 185-58 from 1993-2011. Frank slipped his last few years. I believe most, but not all of that, was due to recruiting falling behind. During his height, Frank would always get his fair share of the top players in Virginia. When first hired, Fuente said he was going to make in-state recruiting a priority, but he hasn't made any traction. That was always our identity. Our team was full of Virginia kids, and we were the state's major football program because of that. It was a factor of pride that we had in-state players and won big with them. It helped get us more. That identity is lost. I don't know if Fuente is failing in recruiting Virginia kids or just not trying (I know personally of one case where we did not offer a 2020 top 5 recruit, and his family was a little pissed we ignored him – they were VT fans). I believe we need to get back to our roots and hit the Commonwealth hard if we want to start competing for conference championships again.

I will say outside of Clemson, the ACC is plain terrible this season, and we probably have as good a chance as anyone to win the Coastal. It won't always be this bad, though.

Our team was full of Virginia kids, and we were the state's major football program because of that. It was a factor of pride that we had in-state players and won big with them. It helped get us more.

I think it was a bit of a two way street... Football talent from the 757, DC area, Richmond, etc was under appreciated. When VT came knocking, Beamer didn't just say 'we have space for you here,' he said 'We want you here.' These kids were wanted by VT, and they reciprocated that desire.

These days, the secret is out; everyone knows there's talent in VA. Beyond that, for a variety of reasons, it's easier than ever for schools to recruit out of state, and even easier for recruits to leave their home state.

Twitter me

Frank innovated and pivoted when he focused on special teams and defense. Other teams started using starters in special teams, so they caught up.

He eventually offensively was pivoted, but that's another story for another day.

Fuente desperately needs a pivotal moment. It could have been the UVA game last year, but this season has felt like a dud so far. Hopefully we get there. I don't particularly hate Fuente, but would like to see him succeed, but he's just got to do better and that's the bottom line.


That 2002 team was a solid group. They beat Marshall, LSU, and Texas A&M consecutively, and all three of them were ranked. They did it by running the ball over and over and over. Having Lee Suggs and Kevin Jones in the same backfield allows you to do that. I'm not sure what happened to that team mid season that caused them to lose three games in a row.

I think the thing we're missing is defense. That was our identity. Blocking kicks certainly helped put us on the map, but I feel like that part of our identity was overstated towards the end of the Big East era and certainly throughout the ACC era. From 2004-2011, there were plenty of games that ended with us only scoring 20 some points but holding the other team to single digits. It wasn't pretty, but we won games and had complete trust in our defense.

Now, the offense is certainly better than what it was for several of those years. The offenses from 2006-2008 were absolutely horrible. You thought last week's Furman game was bad? Furman was beating us 3-0 at halftime back in 2008. The problem is our defense has lost its identity. In 2017, we had a top defense. We went 9-4. The offense wasn't great, but it got the job done. It felt like Virginia Tech football. I'm not sure what the future holds for our defense once Bud is gone. No one does. But whoever it is is going to have a tremendous amount of pressure on them because they're not Bud Foster. Remember the whole "Bud gets a pass" argument? Well it's true. Bud got a pass from 2012-2015 when we were going 7-6 pretty regularly. He got a pass last year. He is certainly getting a pass this year. All of this is because what he has done for us in the past. Whoever is next won't have the same pass. Whoever it is, we're going to see them for what they are at that moment, not what they used to do. I think it might help us return to that defensive powerhouse.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.


Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Remember the whole "Bud gets a pass" argument? Well it's true. Bud got a pass from 2012-2015 when we were going 7-6 pretty regularly. He got a pass last year. He is certainly getting a pass this year.

Really got beef with the bolded comment. VT defenses were ranked 8th, 1st, 11th, 18th by S&P+ (aka, adjusted for # of snaps and SOS) from 2012-2015, respectively. Bud has received one 'pass' so far, and that was last year (I suppose this year too). 2010 was the only other year he fielded a defense outside of the S&P+ top 25.

EDIT: This year's defense is far from perfect, but currently up to 43rd best defense in S&P+ after finishing 77th last year. Small sample size so far, but that's a pretty dramatic improvement. If Bud can keep this improvement up, it could be one of his best, and most underrated, coaching performances ever.

Twitter me

and yet our offense has been seemingly stuck in mud for over 20 years and nobody seems to know how to fix it. Stinespring couldn't get it going, Loeffler brought in more talent and upgraded the passing scheme but still yielded pretty pedestrian stats, and Cornelson is arguably taking it in the wrong direction. Do coaches just forget how to offense when they come to Blacksburg? Are we cursed? How come nobody knows how to make our offense work?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

UCLA has been asking the same thing for years, with two ex-NFL coaches (Mora and now Kelly). Then their offense explodes for 50 points in the last 18 minutes against Wazu. Point is - even masterminds like Kelly have problems they have to work through.

But the VT offense has had its moments here and there, have put up a lot of points at times. Consistency has been a major problem.

The Fuente system hasn't had the personnel yet. Only Jerod Evans was a solid RPO guy but didn't have the WRs or RB to go with him. Then JJ was a good game manager, but again, not enough WR or RB help. Now we have the WRs, hopefully one solid RB for the future, but still need the right QB. And the o-line is progressing but needs to keep working towards dominance.

Basically, Fuente has been trying to win using what he has, but there haven't been enough exceptional players to really get the full system working yet.

Only Jerod Evans was a solid RPO guy but didn't have the WRs or RB to go with him.


I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

How long is it going to take Fuente to get his guys in here? 10 years?

And the o-line is progressing

Is it though?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

2012-2015 was when the defense started getting gashed by power running quarterbacks. Remember the 2013 game against Maryland or the 2015 game against Duke? While the stats from that era certainly look good, those defenses had their well documented problems and were responsible for a lot of losses. From 2004-2011, I can't really think of any losses of the top of my head where the defense was accountable.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Remember the 2013 game against Maryland or the 2015 game against Duke?

those defenses had their well documented problems and were responsible for a lot of losses.

Just for context, in 2013 we lost five games:

1) Alabama: We lost 35-10 but it was a lot closer than it appears because Bama got a pick six and two special teams touchdowns. Bud held AJ McCarron to 10-23, 110 yards, 1 TD/INT and Bama had less than 100 rushing yards. The offense was absolute garbage.

2) Duke: Should have easily won that game but Logan Thomas threw four picks. We had four picks on defense, their QB went 7-25 for 107 yards and Duke had less than 200 yards of total offense.

3) Boston College: Another game we should have probably won. Logan Thomas had two picks (including a pick six) and a fumble and Edmunds had a fumble. Outside of a 62 yard touchdown run (immediately after a soul crushing Hokie TOD), Andre Williams only had 102 yards on 32 carries while their quarterback threw for less than 100 yards.

4) The aforementioned Maryland game.

5) UCLA bowl game where Logan Thomas gets knocked out by Jordan Zumwalt and we had to play Leal.

TL;DR if had at least an average offense in 2013, we easily win the coastal because of how dominant the defense was that year.

5) UCLA Game - As I remember it:
LT throw Miles Jack down like a sack of potatoes on a running play.
Next play some big white linebacker - Jordan Zumwalt - came up and hit LT awkwardly under his chin strap.
LT kind of hit his head on the ground and the coaching staff decides he's done for the day to protect him for the upcoming NFL draft.
Had the game mattered, I think LT would have come back in.

Logan Thomas doesn't remember the hit, just the aftermath. The Virginia Tech quarterback was dazed at the Sun Bowl against UCLA, knocked unconscious briefly. Teammates said his eyes were glossed over on the bench. (Link Here)

Thomas wasn't coming back under any circumstances.

Yeah, well I stand corrected there, everything else?

EDIT: Oh, you changed your point from Miles Jack to Zumwalt. Ok

Also, my memory has LT on the sidelines laughing and joking after the hit, meaning he didn't look like he was concussed or feeling any after effects after leaving the game. I do remember him being down on the field for a few minutes, and I won't question the reporting on it, but the fact that the article had to expressly point out how dazed he was from the hit points to some questions people had about why he didn't go back in the game because he looked fine on the sidelines.

I went and pulled the Hokietapes up on this. The injury wasn't a concussion. It appears that they were treating him for a shoulder or neck injury.

Next play some big white linebacker

My friend, has anyone commented on your profile picture, that it could be called sexist, or even the dreaded "misogynistic," in this day and age?

How is misogynistic worse than sexist lol?

Yes, the 2013 defense was good. 2012 didn't turn it on until the end of the season though. The 2014 defense struggled at times. The 2015 defense struggled all the time. The 2013 defense was the only one on par with what we saw from 2004-2011, 2010 excluded. We managed to win 10 games every year from 2004-2011 with some less than impressive offenses.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Remember the whole "Bud gets a pass" argument? Well it's true. Bud got a pass from 2012-2015 when we were going 7-6 pretty regularly.

The 2013 defense might be the best defense in Virginia Tech history. Easily the deepest secondary (Kendall/Kyle Fuller, Exum, Jarrett, Clark, Faceyon).

2014 defense was incredible as well.

Bud was the only reason we weren't complete garbage post Tyrod.

Yep, and all we needed to do was score something. Anything against WF.

Speaking of, we still haven't played Louisville. I'm confused.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Louisville only joined the ACC in 2014 and we do play them at Louisville in 2020 season.(as a rotating cross division game)

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

Not so sure about the 2014 defense. They had their moments, but they also gave up 30 points twice, and the offense wasn't turning the ball over the way it was in 2013. I think that 2014 offense was on par with the 2006-2008 offenses, and those teams won 10, 11, and 10 games respectively.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Yall will have a chance to appreciate him on Friday. The 1999 team is being honored and it sounds like they're going to have a solid turnout.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Building on some previous comments:

Beamer is credited with developing in-state recruits of largely lesser talent (3*). Recruiting has changed from those years, and competition is greatly increased:
1) Online Player ratings have exposed VA talent to the rest of our great nation; not just the 5* and 4* to the blue chip schools, but also the 3* to the smaller schools that didn't have the staff and budget to find them before.
2) Not only have out-of-state schools thinned the prospect herd, but there is greatly increased near & in-state competition. Appalachian, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, and ODU joined Division 1 and are on the rise, and JMU, Citadel, Elon, and Furman are regularly in the top 25 of D2.
3) Recruiting budgets have increased overall, with perhaps the blue-chips pulling out ahead of other schools.

As mentioned before, Foster has produced a defense in the top 25 S+P all years except for 2010? and last year. Last year's team had a LOT of youth.....some experience now, but still there. Surely Beamer's retirement, and a new coach/personalities/system, negatively affected both recruiting and departures.

The football guru's that contribute here will all agree that the skill of the O-line determines the results and consistency of the offense against the variety of teams we face. In today's VT press conference, coach Kill (WELCOME ABOARD!) made two comments that stood out when asked about things he had seen in VT play:
1) The team that wins in turnovers usually wins the game. Foster added that practice had focused on fundamentals......
2) We've had a lot of injuries and turnover in the O-line, and it takes a long time for that unit to develop and gel to play consistently well together.

BTW, Kill sounded like a good-old southern boy.......I think he's going to be a very good addition!


Re: this original thread. You never appreciate anything until you lose it to be frank (pun intended).

That being said, you won't appreciate Fuente as much or anything he had to endure until he leaves. It's the way the cookie crumbles IMO. I understand the angst around him that people feel but he's got a tough hand that he's been playing with since day 1 - and he's doing a bang-up job in my opinion too. I don't think anyone else (not even Saban or Dabo) could do better.