Better grab Oklahoma State while you can. And twist Notre Dame's arm to finally get this done. Whatever it takes. What should the plan be? How likely is it to actually come to fruition.

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ACC is solidly between second and third tier conference in football. Whether that gulf between first tier and them is one mile wide or one hundred miles wide is up to the SEC and how many blue bloods they are willing to split the pie with at this point.

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ACC? Plan?

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

The ACC and BIG grant of rights is going to be a hurdle not even a super SEC can overcome. While the BIG schools MAYBE hold out till 2023 maybe no ACC school or ND could survive until 2036 with no TV revenue coming in.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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With all the rumors coming out, apparently the ACC was talking to Oklahoma and Texas at the same time they both started talking to the SEC. If that's true, then Phillips has a plan in motion already.

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BSME 2009

Swafford: Plan? Sorry I don't speak Spanish.

Phillips: Yes, my plan is to compete with the SEC on all levels and come in second every time in a two man race.

Hang onto your hats boys and girls, this stuff is getting interesting. Could CFB become further tiered with two super-conferences? Will the Big-12 cease to exist? Where does the PAC fit into all of this? Delicious!

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Okie State def the first to grab. Texas Tech probably the second best football wise, then it's a toss up between TCU and WVU (would have to hold your nose for sure). Drop Wake.

Also maybe try to bring in Kansas/Kentucky for hoops, though its less important than football.

Obviously roll out to red carpet Georgia, UF, Tenn; even though there's probably no chance, you still have to try. Pitch geography, rivalries, and possible future irrelevance with Texas/Bama running the conference

It would shock me if any SEC school left that money behind. Oklahoma State doesn't fit geographically nor historically. Other than Notre Dame, there's not another attainable program out there that moves the needle for a huge increase in TV money. The ACC's power move is to add the Irish.

Behind the scenes, I hope Whit's exploring any potential opportunities for Tech to move to SEC or B1G (and yes I know the grant of TV rights is a pretty insurmountable blocker).

I have to ask (I lost track), did Rutgers and Maryland pay the full buyout to leave the ACC?

Maryland did not pay the $52 million buyout in full -- they sued/negotiated that number down to the $30 million range.

That's why ACC changed from "buyout" to grant of rights.

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Rutgers was never ACC were they?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Behind the scenes, I hope Whit's exploring any potential opportunities for Tech to move to SEC or B1G (and yes I know the grant of TV rights is a pretty insurmountable blocker).

This is the same AD that wouldn't pull the trigger on Fuente this past season, and didn't veto just about the worst Nike P5 deal when he was new to the job? That had to be bullied into football facility upgrades? Forgive me if I'm not exactly optimistic that Whit is out on the cutting edge trying to maneuver Tech into a more prosperous football future.

I would imagine that any conference movement is a decision that is made above Whit's head - Sands and the BOV.

I'd stay regional.... The B1G is not the Big without Mich and OSU, and loses all leverage. The ACC has the upper hand if they act quickly and poach PSU, Rutgers, MD, WVU and add ND, plus Cincy to get to 20. The leftovers from the B1G and Big 12 combine and then PAC 12 follows suit

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If you're poaching teams from the Big 10 to join the ACC (as far fetched as that might seem), you're not taking WVU Rutgers and Cincy over Mich St, Iowa or Illinois. Regional at this point is going out the window - Notre Dame, Louisville, or Cincy isn't really anymore regional than anywhere else in the Big 10. And the ACC already stretches from NY to Miami what's the difference

"Cough, cough" Boston to Miami.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!


Boston to Miami air miles = 1256
Syracuse to MiamI air miles = 1217
If your point is the length of the ACC on the Atlantic coast, then Boston to Miami is the greatest distance.
FYI, South Bend to Miami is 1150 air miles, good for third place I believe.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Syracuse is further north. The point was the geographic northern and southern most points in the conference and the concept of the conference being "regional". It wasn't meant to mean exact air miles, in my reference.

Maybe the ACC should add the Maine Black Bears so that this is less complicated.

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Point well taken, legs to you fellow Hokie

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Okay I've got it then:

Expand to 24, three 8 team divisions: Coastal, Atlantic and West.

Coastal: current plus Penn State.
Atlantic: current minus Wake, plus Notre Dame and Maryland
Ok State
Texas Tech

You do realize Wake is a founding member of the ACC. I don't know if the other schools would be so quick to turn their backs on Wake. At least not before they are guaranteed to have at least one of the big fish on board (ND, PSU).

Wake going nowhere unless it is with everybody else to a super conference

At one point (probably early in the last big realignment before we picked up Pitt and Syracuse), I had come up with an expanded ACC, probably with 16 teams. I can't remember the specifics, except that it had two mega-divisions, one was along the actual Atlantic Coast, and the other was basically what was left of the Big 12 at the time, including Texas.

ACC better start extending invites from B1G schools (PSU, MD) or SEC schools (USC, GA, UF) even if it's just for optics. If the B1G starts extending invites to ACC schools we may be in trouble.

The ACC is better positioned geographically to take schools from the B1G than the other way around. Clemson, FSU, UNC do not fit in geographically with the B1G at all. Not sure geography matters any more though, which is sad.

Not a single ACC school could survive until 2036 without the TV revenue. The ACC isn't going to get poached unless it's the entire ACC merging for a super conference.

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I hope you are right but it seems like in today's world everything can be settled for pennies on the dollar.

Yep, I think I read the cost to leave before 2036 is 3 years of ACC distribution $, which last year was $32m. So we're talking $90m+ to leave

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Nope it's even more. Every ACC school including ND has given the ACC their tv rights. So if ND for example goes to the BIG ten the ACC would actually get all their media payouts until the 2036 season.

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Lol.. that's absurd. why tf did anyone agree to that?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

To keep the conference intact at the time Maryland ran away, also to keep ND in the fold.

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The acc contract is a huge deterrent for a single school to leave. However, this could be a situation that's like the old saying "if you owe the bank a million dollars you're in trouble but if you owe the bank a billion dollars the bank is in trouble". If multiple schools like Clemson, VT, FSU left; the acc the conference could collapse and cease to be an ongoing entity. The ACC has to exist through 2036 to collect on the tv rights.

This this this, lawyers will dig in and figure it out if they need to but the ACC needs and I mean needs Clemson and a few others if they all dipped the ACC would cave like the big east.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Edit: incorrect info

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You wouldn't get to keep most of that money because it's the TV revenue for that year. The ONLY payments a team that leaves the ACC will get is bowl disbursement, NCAA basketball disbursement, small payments for other conference payouts, donations to the school. Period. The grant of rights means if Clemson goes to the SEC the TV revenue disbursement that they would have gotten from the SEC would instead be split among remaining ACC school. Your looking at a school only getting 15-20 million at best instead of 43-50 million.

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The grant rights seems insurmountable but the money that would be generated by an SEC with Clemson and FSU on top of Texas and OU (and let's throw in Michigan/OSU just for argument's sake) would truly be so unfathomable compared to the rest of the sport that it might be enough to offset it. At that point they'd have every school 90% of the country cares about.

I'm not saying I think it's gonna happen but I'm not naive enough to sit here and say the ACC is a-ok either. We really need to hope Clemson values their easy path to the playoff in the ACC, because if there is mutual interest between them and a super-SEC they'll find a way out.

But the ACC would get that TV revenue. How does say FSU survive 14 years on only ncaa basketball payouts, bowl payouts, donations and loans from the academic side?

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You act as if these contracts are binding forever null any changes. If corporate lawyers know how to do one things re-negotiating contracts is it.

Why would the ACC agree to any negotiated settlement when they hold all the cards? Why would they willingly let teams go that could long term destroy the conference? In what legal argument could be made that the grant of rights isn't binding since the member schools all voted on it.

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See comment from user above about major team leaving thus destroying conference as a whole. I also do not know the ends and outs of the contract nor do you. If all schools did agree for such a deal it seems like poor foresight masqueraded as "saving" the conference.

IIRC, a pay per view/subscription model could circumvent the grant of rights. ND could set up a pay per view ND channel for example. FSU could set up a network channel on youtube TV for 3 dollars a month, theoretically. I -think- that is the out clause with grant of rights deals.

Fighting Irish TV is the reason ACC won't get ND. B1G can offer the revenue back. ACC can't.

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I was reading one idea floating around that the ACC and PAC might try to strike some sort of TV deal together to compete

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Proud Hokie since 2004.

The Coastal Elites League /s

I'm still strongly in support of the B1G-Atlantic Sport Syndicate merger.

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.

Aside from the geographic absurdity of it, it does make a bit of sense from academic perspective. But the idea of VT softball traveling to Pullman every year is farcical.

He only mentioned a joint TV deal, not a conference merger.

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First of all, I agree that I am immediately concerned for the ACC. The P12 has expansion opportunities, even if they aren't Texas/OU level. The B10 is stable AF, and also has expansion opportunities. The SEC is the SEC. The ACC, however, doesn't really have the ability to poach a P5 team (other than ND).

That said, I am confident that Phillips, while limited by the ACC's product, will put football first, unlike Swafford. He may not be successful, but he will value VT, Clemson, and FSU football over Duke/Carolina basketball.

However, I'm not sure where the ACC goes here... Adding ND is obvious. But adding WVU, Cincy, or some other G5 team doesn't increase the size of the pie. I am interested in adding Navy because I do believe that they truly are a national draw, but that could just be my bias as an Annapolis native. I'm also interested in the idea of 'acquiring' a conference like the sunbelt, and introducing promotion and relegation. While I personally think this is a really cool idea, I'm not sure that would bring in additional revenue to the conference.

Best case scenario for VT is that Mizzou/Texas AM/Ark leave the SEC, and we can swoop in and grab a spot. Second best scenario for VT is that Mizzou/Texas AM/Ark/LSU veto the Texas/OU merge - If this happens, Texas probably goes Independent and OU goes to the B10, opening a potential spot for VT in the SEC or B10. Regardless, neither possibility seems realistic right now.

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Teams wont leave the SEC.

  1. B10 brings in more money than SEC, so in theory, a team like Mizzou could leave the SEC and bring in more money.
  2. I think you're underestimating how pissed TAMU and Mizzou are about this (both teams were allegedly blind sided when they heard the news). They moved to the SEC purely to get away from Texas. Arkansas did the same thing ~20 years earlier. LSU isn't happy about this either. I think it's quite unlikely they leave, but not impossible. I'd say it's ~5% chance any of these teams leave.


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ACC to TCA "Trans Continental Conference"

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Ok, the plan is simple, ACC, Big ten and Pac12 absorb the Big 12, now you have the power 4, and you know what there are 4 CFP spots. So winning of the conference goes to the playoffs, fixed! And a huge FU to the SEC.

I mean, I don't hate it. PAC-12 direction is interesting. I feel like Boise state would be a smart move than Texas Tech. Also, some of these B12 schools are NOT a culture fit in the PAC-whatever. Can't wait to tailgate at a Cal/Baylor game lol.

Edit: I like this even more, if you just broke it into pods:

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OK State's buttload of NCAA titles fit with the PAC12. I believe they are 4th behind Stanford, UCLA and USC.

But yeah Texas schools and the PAC12 don't really mix academically or really for any sports.

The middle conference would need some substitutions. ECU Navy BYU and SDSU for North Texas, Rice, La Tech, and Wyoming

The first one seems like the obvious conclusion of things if this really doesn't progress beyond the Texas/OU jump - if that's all that happens when the smoke clears I think everyone could live with it, it just doesn't seem likely that the SEC will stop there.

The second one, that "Big 12" is a very clear odd man out. They just can't survive without Texas-OU. They will be left out of the playoff (or left out of the top 4 of the 12 team playoff) every single time without question. The remaining big schools in that conference aren't going to settle for adding AAC schools and calling it a day, they're gonna immediately look to jump ship and for good reason.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's going to end there, if the rumors about FSU and Clemson are true. That makes it sound like the SEC is looking to go to 20, which will force the decision on the other conferences - go to 20, or at least 18, or risk having your teams poached by another conference.

The end result, probably a few years down the road, anyway, looks like it's going to be a new association of football power schools limited to 64 or less. If the SEC goes to 20, then it could be 60-64 and 2 or 3 conferences, and the sweet spot will be 18-20 schools in each conference. Why 64 or less? I don't think there is enough money to support 80 schools in the new association. And the optimal number for the new association might even be 40 schools and just 2 power conferences.

It just depends on optimizing the money - balancing variety vs. fewer schools to split the take.

I know the first question about having less than 4 conferences is how that works competition-wise. But that's the wrong question. The new conferences are all about controlling the TV money and the playoffs. When you get to 20 schools in a conference, they don't have to be much related, geographically or culturally, as long as they agree on how the money will be split. You could even have a Coastal Conference: a merger of the ACC and PAC12, with the 10 or 12 strongest of each together. They'll figure out the logistics later. (Could be everything but football keeps to the old conference scheduling, and the only time the East Coast and West Coast play each other is for the Championship).

Buckle up, it's gonna get weird.

Wait, what?

Not terrible. I would put Notre Dame in "North." I would change "West" to "Central" and put WVU there. So the division would be VT, UVA, WVU, and Louisville

Lol so you want ND to run train on Pitt, Syracuse, and BC annually? There's no point in adding ND to the conference just to make them play 3* built in bum-ass games every year.

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That would only be three games.

Better than running a train on us

As far as the second option goes, OKS would run every bit of that division, they would get every automatic bid to every playoff or tournament.

He said give to me Roscoe

For that top one: there is zero (and I mean zero) chance that the PAC12 goes after Baptist Baylor. It's just not happening. Kansas State is probably out in the cold too. I could see TTU/OSU but if they wanted to round out to 16 I think they'd be looking at the MWC instead.

I could see the rest conceivably shaking out, assuming the B1G will take Iowa State to go along with Kansas. I'd also like to see WVU in our division, switched with ND to the North.

Yeah I think the best arrangement would be Kansas, KState, IowaSt, and Mizzou going to the Big 10 to make 18 and OU, OkSt, Texas going to the SEC to make 16. Not saying the conferences would do that, especially the Big 10, but geographically it makes the most sense and would maintain all the big rivalries in the same conferences (since Iowa/IowaSt matters and Mizzou/Illinois was a thing).

Ultimately the Big 10 should drop Rutgers to D2 and WVU/MD should join/rejoin the ACC, though I don't want to have anything to do with either of them. If that happened on top of the rest it'd be 16 teams everywhere.

I like the first graphic better. It would be smarter to move to pods with 16 schools in each. I would personally switch Notre Dame with West Virginia given the cultural and historical ties.

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

9 game conference schedules.

Play the 3 in your pod, all of a second pod, and a dedicated crossover opponent in each other pod.

Remaining 3 games can be: 1 vs other in state schools in a P4 conference (FSU/UF, UGA/GT, Clemson/SoCar, OU/OkSt, UT and TAMU/TT and Baylor, UL/UK, Kansas/KSU) or marquee P4 opponent, 1 vs G5 in state state schools, 1 vs FCS or G5 out of state school

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Pondering the dominoes:

Current Make-up of the remaining P4 conferences:
ACC: 14 teams
B1G: 14 teams
PAC12: 12 teams
SEC: 14 teams

Let's say they all devour the Big12, with the goal of topping out at 16 teams each.

ACC: +WVU, Kansas or Kansas St or Notre Dame
B1G: +Iowa State, Kansas State or Kansas
PAC12: +TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma St

This is, I believe, a reasonable split based on geography, which of course means this isn't going to happen; so.

SEC: +UT, OU, Clemson, FSU (2x9 team divisions that don't play each other until the SEC championship game, however, three teams are chosen at random to switch from each every two years (and are subsequently ineligible to switch in the next drawing)
ACC: +ND, WVU, USNA, USMA (same process as above)
PAC12: +BYU, USAFA, Hawaii, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St, TCU (same process)
B1G: +Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Baylor

The P5 of 65 teams becomes a P4 of 72

The remaining 58 teams divide into four conferences of 14-16 teams (although they could see about pulling a few teams up from FCS to make it an even 64; like JMU, NDSt, Villanova, Sam Houston State, and Eastern Washington)

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I think Kansas and Mizzou to the Big Ten makes sense. Mizzou isn't a good fit in the SEC anyway, they should have ended up in the Big Ten.

OU replaces Mizzou. Texas goes independent

Conferences have nothing to do with geography anymore, it's just money. These super-conference ideas are interesting.

At this point, we might as well go European soccer league style system (promotion/relegation). The biggest schools from all across the country in their own conference, with smaller schools in smaller conferences, etc. And a few change year to year based on performances.

Of course, that wouldn't work because of all the other college sports

The only way any of this turns out as a net positive on a macro scale is if teams end up with a legitimate big boy 12 game schedule.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

We need to poach teams from the other side of the Atlantic.

Portugal, Spain, France, and England all have top tier futbol programs.

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At some point you have to ask yourself is winning games more important than chasing the almighty dollar. I think VT joining the SEC would be an absolute disaster. Sure, more money will come from TV revenues but the Hokies are never going to out talent or out coach the blue bloods of the SEC. We become, at best, a Missouri or a Mississippi State hoping to finish above .500. Apathy would set in real quick one the shine wears off of being in the SEC.

As for adding West Virginia or Oklahoma State or Rutgers, why? How do any of those teams make the ACC a better brand? That's a knee jerk reaction of adding teams for the sake of adding teams. I think the smart play is for the ACC Commissioner to do his best to keep all of the ACC teams together and gauge Notre Dame's interest. If they say no then so be it. The SEC will cannibalize themselves and by the team they reach the playoffs they will be gassed and possibly easier to beat.

If the ACC is raided somehow, and VT is left in a really watered down ACC playing second-tier football, eventually becoming more like FCS, would that be all that exciting? I would rather be in a top league with plenty of money coming in and an exciting schedule, even if we aren't regularly contenders, than be relegated to irrelevance permanently.

Just reading some of the tea leaves with the ACC allegedly also trying to recruit Texas and OU, combined with our big push with the Reach campaign, I have to wonder if many of the administrators and higher ups in college Athletics have known or sensed something like this happening soon. This is likely the beginning of a radical shift in college sports, the separation of the haves and have nots, and the beginning of the top of the P5 breaking away from the NCAA. If this starts going the direction of one or two super leagues, VT has to try and grab a seat on one of them. We need to decide as a university if we simply want to deemphasize Athletics and compete at a lower level or be serious about competing at the highest level. Many interesting times ahead I believe.

The goal is to be the best football team we can be. We were t scared jumping from the BigEast to the ACC and we shouldn't be scared here.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Acc adds Penn state, wvu, Maryland, and Texas A&M (they leave SEC after Texas comes in). ND relationship stays the same but I'd imagine all this movement might get them interested in committing.

Sec adds Michigan and OSU and somebody else

I don't really care about any other teams or conferences but that would be pretty awesome for the ACC

F Maryland

The Texas/Oklahoma move is the beginning of a total restructuring of major college sports. The blue bloods are taking their game to a new level that is going to leave the 90 to 100 Division one schools like Tech scrambling for whatever crumbs are left. We can discuss TV right and contract issues until we are blue in the face. The blue bloods will have enough money to overcome just about any obstacle.

My gut tells me that no matter what, the ACC needs to at least keep what we have and get to 16 locked in full members now. Cant wait and miss the boat. I see either a group of 4 or 5 power conferences with 16 members each being the future. 18 or 20 is too much. Some Schools within a conference of that many wont play each other for a decade, unless they meet in a conference championship. 16 is the best option, split into pods of 4 and rotating the pods you play other than your own each year. Thats 7 games and add 3 OOC power conference games + 2 g5/fcs leftovers games = 12 games. Tell the fucking Domers to either shit or get off the pot today. The writing is on the wall and they can try their luck elsewhere if they aren't all in.
Kick 'em out and get 2 decent teams in. Period.

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

Domers? Is this a reference to Syracuse. I am confused

Notre Dame = Golden Domers

much appreciated

Lmao. The Fightin' Carrier Domers. I like it.

The only fightin' carriers I know of are Navy, which brings us right back to "ND and Navy to the ACC confirmed!"

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Nobody is leaving the Big Ten or SEC for the ACC. Nobody. Their TV contracts dwarf ours and we are locked into ours until 2036, unless we add someone, and even then the teams we would need to add to make that happen won't leave their current situation.

WVU will probably get invited but they won't trigger ESPN re-evaluating our contract. The only team out there who would is Notre Dame. But if they joined a conference theres a good chance they'll lawyer up and weasel their way out of any obligation they have to the ACC and join the B1G.

Also, the Grant of Rights stuff is just a paper lion. The ACC already showed how toothless their legal threats are when they allowed Maryland to only pay a small fraction of their contractual obligations when they left a decade ago. If Clemson, Florida State, and North Carolina want to bolt to the SEC I would suspect they'll manage to find a way to keep their money. Schools like that always do.

As for VT, well we chose a sucky time to suck in football. We might eventually get a rope thrown to us if the worst case scenario happens, but we really don't have the leverage or positioning we had even a decade ago. With streaming emerging at the rate it is, being able to bring someone the Virginia market isn't the draw it once was, our football program is unlikely to be competitive in either the SEC or B1G anytime soon, and outside of a basketball team kind of finding it's own, we really don't bring anything else of value to the table, athletically. There's a very real possibility that this round of movement solidifies our inability to ever compete financially in college athletics and could trigger an internal evaluation on if it's worth it to even try.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

My hope is that the timing of the Reach campaign was not coincidental. It sounds at least on paper like there is support among the VT higher ups to get serious with football again. However, my worry is it may be too little too late. If VT got the SEC offer today I think this administration may be more inclined to take it, but I'm not sure it ever comes. We are at a nearly 30 year low point as a football program, and we just don't have the same shine we did a decade ago. As I said before, that will go down as the worst and most shortsighted decision in VT Athletics history.

And also couldn't agree more about the GoR. People acting like it's this insurmountable obstacle. Money and lawyers get things done, and it's likely if enough members want to bolt, that arrangement will be either struck down in court or a monetary settlement will be arranged. Hell if the conference implodes, who will there be left to pay the settlement to? The conference is a lose arrangement made up of the member schools. If enough key members want out, the GoR is a worthless piece of paper.

As for VT, well we chose a sucky time to suck in football. It is just as simple as this statement for alum 07. It will be a dog eat dog time to carve out the weak for the big bucks going forward. And the whole Notre Dame thing, they aint joining a conference with the freaking sweet deal they have now. 5 letters say it all- money

IDK Graham Coffey is, how reliable his source is, or what 'a couple more dominoes' means, but this would be terrible for the sport.

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I think this ends up being one big 32 team super league or two 20-24 team super leagues that break away from the NCAA and form the new highest tier of college football, taking full advantage of NIL and the massive tv deals. I think the concept is a 30-40 team league like the NFL with all the biggest college football powers.

College football is meant to be consumed like a whole hog; snout to tail. I don't know if you can take the top 20-30 teams and still be successful. I could go on and on about this, but I just hope it fails.

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People don't want to watch P5 vs G5 or FCS games anymore. They literally have no eyeball appeal for TV, and that's what this is all about. The more constant big games, the more money for all involved. Sure, you may not go 15-0, but you are competing at the highest level of college football.

Coastal Carolina vs BYU was the best game of the season last year. UCF vs. USF was amazing a few years ago. VT vs OSU in 2014, Iowa State vs. OSU in 2011, etc - these games don't happen any more if the blue bloods form their own league. I think theses are the games that make CFB better than NFL. I don't want CFB to be watered down NFL.

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What the fans want has no bearing on things. The NFL is less fun than CFB, but it makes a bajillion dollars.

I mean, what the fans want now Has no bearing on things, but if a lot of fans tune out (I think they eventually would if there was a 20 team blue blood league), then it matters.

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Well that should benefit us, as we are 17th in all-time wins in the NCAA (Div 1, FBS only).
Our alumni base represents 3 of the top 56 television markets in the US, including #7.
We are in the top 42 of athletic department revenue.
Our worst year since George HW Bush was President was one win away from a bowl game, and we were damn close in accepting a bid anyway.
We just had two players taken in the first round of the NFL Draft for the second time in four years.
We have the 28th largest stadium in the country.

As much as we might like to pout that we don't belong, and that we'll just be left out due to some other shinier new toy, I'll just leave this here.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

What did I miss?
What is the genesis of this conversation?

This is going to be great for the ACC.

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If you're serious, Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

That is the whole thing? The TX and OKU might goto SEC?

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Yes and according to some people, it's the proverbial "first domino"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Oh man, are we doing "first domino" threads again now? We're doing it, aren't we?

i cri eveytiem

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

TX and OU go to SEC causing the B12 collapse. SEC is also supposedly trying to get another 4-10 teams, and compete at a level 'above DI'

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I thought the same (that there was further news about conference expansion). I'm pretty sure it's just a spinoff thread from the original OU/Texas outreach news.

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I think the B1G taking Kansas is a given (for basketball). They'll need one more so maybe Ok St (Iowa won't want Iowa St). For the ACC, ND is option 1, if they say yes, Navy is an option (ND rival, located in MD, national brand). If ND says no, WVU and Cincy are the best options. Stays within our footprint and opens up Ohio for TV eyeballs.

I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them!

The intent is everyone joins the SEC and breaks off from the NCAA. The SEC will be the grand gate keeper.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

One of my Clemson friends texted me asking what's going on with all this, and after explaining it to him his response was "Take me back to 2007," and I think most of us (VT fans) would be happy with that plan as well haha.

Hard to know how all of this will shake out, but it definitely feels like we are on the precipice of unprecedented change.

I definitely think someone big is about to play out. I'm hoping that VT administration is tuned in and actively monitoring this. I think it's likely we head toward two super conferences, those being the B1G and SEC, and they come in and absorb ACC and Big 12 schools. Curious what will happen to USC and some of the west coast powers in all of this. If the SEC wants to get to 20, from a geographic and cultural standpoint, it makes a load of sense to make a run at Clemson, FSU, VT, and NC State. That also gets them the mid Atlantic exposure with VA and NC. UNC I feel would align themselves with Duke and UVA, and NC State would be a great target and could get out of UNC's shadow. I don't think there's any chance the SEC gets Ohio State and Michigan as has been rumored. Just doesn't seem like a cultural fit, and most likely they remain in the B1G as the other super conference. B1G then grabs Kansas and Iowa State, also potentially makes a run at UVa UNC and Duke, perhaps also makes a run at ND to round things out at 20.

However this plays out, if we go to two super conferences, I hope we land in one of those two boats, but preferably in the SEC with our more geographic peers.

If you're gonna talk about cultural fit, VT is way, way closer to being a B1G school than an SEC school

It is true we are a large land grant university similar to many B1G schools. But I feel like our fan base and geographical proximity makes us a better fit for the SEC than the Midwest. Games against Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, USCe seem like a more natural fit than Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, etc.

Doesn't the Big10 have some sort of accreditation requirement? I know in the past we did not have that accreditation, but I am not sure if we have it now or if it would still be required based on their most recent additions.

AAU designation. It's always been mentioned as an unspoken requirement for membership, even though Nebraska's status was revoked I believe.

It's not just that it's unprecedented, but it also feels irreversible.

IF the rumored changes happen, I think best case scenario is a 'champions league' relegation/promotion format, but I'm not sure that could happen in American sports. Even if it did, I'm not sure CFB could stay weird, which would be disappointing.

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To jump on your soccer comparison this all seems very similar to the doomed European Super League that was brought down by the fans. The SEC is going to create an exclusive league of financially superior teams. There will be a lot more teams left on the outside looking in that will become irrelevant in the near future.

Maybe we should change the title of this thread to ACC HAVE A BETTER PLAN


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Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74


All your plan better belong ACC.

A Brief History of the ACC Commissionership

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

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This is underrated...

I'm convinced that everyone comparing this to the European super league didn't actually understand the European super league

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Enlighten me, because I am one of those people.

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It's slightly different scenarios but the same main concept: teams losing access to competing for a major championship because the big boys want a monopoly on all the money/exposure

So... the status quo?

I'll follow up here instead of individually to Bar and Rayo

The biggest single difference is that the ESL at its core was designed to be outside of the current system but also in parallel to it. It was going to guarantee broadcasting money, gate money, concession money, etc for the "biggest" clubs in Europe without requiring sporting merit -- no need to "win your way in". In a system that has clubs and not franchises, that has pro-rel, etc, it's pretty disrespectful to say "we're doing this for the money and it doesn't matter at all what it's going to do to the product on the field, or to overall success of the club". Arsenal, the team I support, has been pretty blah the last few years and doesn't deserve a competition against the Real Madrids and the Juventuses etc. The fact the German clubs basically said to f off was pretty awesome.

That said, the ESL wasn't a rearrangement of current competitions, as the clubs involved didn't intend to leave their domestic leagues, domestic cups, or even the UEFA-sponsored European cups (UCL, UEL). The ESL was set up outside of that structure, in addition to that structure.

The OU/UT to the SEC isn't the same because it's a rearrangement and concentration of teams, and it's effectively within the current NCAA structure. They're still competing for conference championship, they're still competing for national championship within the structure of NCAA CFP system. It's a little more obvious now why the SEC was pushing for wider scope in expanded CFP (12 vs 8, etc) but UT/OU still has to win their games to get in. Going from Big 12 to SEC makes it more difficult to win the conference, not easier, for UT/OU. Adding OU/UT to the SEC doesn't really make it much easier for UGA, Bama, etc to win their conference.

This is occurring within the purview of the NCAA, not outside/alongside it.

If (for instance), Clemson, Bama, ND, FSU, UT, OU, UGA, LSU, Auburn, UF, PSU, Michigan, anOSU, USC, Wisconsin, and Oregon decided to host their own 16-team knockout bracket every year in addition to their typical conference schedule and the Playoff system, and those schools negotiated their own billion dollar TV deal for that tournament to be split among those 16 schools, with a $10m payout to each of the P5 conferences, then that would be more aligned with the ESL comparison.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Not really related to the ESL, but my goodness... imagine a world where instead of the same NCAAF season format every single year, we had smaller tournaments where some were conferences, some were national, etc. A person can dream.

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My point in the comparison was not the finer details of how it worked but that if realignment happens it will be worse for college football just like it would have been worse for soccer if the ESL was formed. A majority of football programs are going to be on the outside of the SEC and not have the chance to play against these opponents. I could see a lot of fan bases losing interest in the sport.

A majority of football programs are going to be on the outside of the SEC and not have the chance to play against these opponents.

That's probably a fair assessment of trying to schedule Mega-SEC teams for OOC games, but it really isn't comparable at all to the proposed-and-scrapped ESL, which was more games between the historically relevant European teams on top of their typical league and cup schedules. An undefeated VT squad would still make the CFP

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I was reading some pieces over the weekend that said it wouldn't be surprising for the SEC to cherry pick schools in order to grow to around 24 teams and essentially create their own athletic division within the sport. If something like that were to go down, then it very much would be in the same vein of the ESL, especially if they decided they would still like to compete for the CFP on the side.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

I believe this is the SEC's plan all along. Expand to 30-40 teams, and break off from the NCAA.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

The OU/UT to the SEC isn't the same because it's a rearrangement and concentration of teams, and it's effectively within the current NCAA structure. They're still competing for conference championship, they're still competing for national championship within the structure of NCAA CFP system.

I guess it wasn't clear in my previous posts, but when I was talking about 'CFB becoming more like European Soccer' I was referring to Graham Coffey's Tweet, where he mentioned that "the SEC could become its own division. More teams have reached out than what's being reported. 20-24 within the realm of possibility." I'm hoping that IF this happened, it would not be a static league; Instead it would be a league that teams could be promoted to after a great season in a different conference. I'm not sure if that's likely/possible/etc.

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I get what you're saying, and I think that you're correct about what is going on with this step. I disagree with you because I think this is the first step out of 4 or 5 more step that result in the SEC no longer playing NCAAF and instead having their own thing where they act like (and hell, maybe are) a developmental league with explicit contracts and connections with the NFL and everybody else is kind of left on the outside looking in. If the SEC is no longer in the NCAAF 'ecosystem' it's going to cost everyone in the middle class a shitload of money and probably spell the end of football in places like Blacksburg.

If UM, OSU, CU and FSU are really talking to the SEC about jumping ship and joining up, to me it's obvious that the SEC is trying to kneecap everybody else and start their own league with the biggest brands.

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I don't know if that would happen because the NCAA would kick all their other sports out as well. So they need to plan on having SEC March Madness also, which won't be nearly as compelling.
Many of those schools probably won't care about the Olympic sports.

That may be true for SEC schools, but OSU and Michigan would not want to give up access to the NCAA for their other sports. It's a source of pride for them.

SEC schools very much care about other sports. They have some of the few gymnastics teams at the collegiate level, their baseball and softball teams, track and field, basketball, swimming and diving all are very important to them.

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But there is much more (and different) competition across most of those other sports across the entire NCAA. It would be tough for some of the non-SEC schools to go from competing to be the best of over a hundred schools to being the best of 30 (or less).

And if the NCAA says pound sand to competing in conferences outside of the Super SEC, Hockey and Wrestling will end up falling by the wayside at those schools. Those sports are incredibly important to Michigan and OSU respectively.

The FBS championship is already out of the hands of the NCAA. The CFP is organized completely separately from them.

If the ACC adds Houston, their rivals will likely be VA and NC State.

However, the geographical location might not make sense. Academics are great, network/marketing is fine, and basketball is GREAT. Football should be on the rise, but we can't have consistency when every two years a P5 swoops in to poach our coaches.

The Houston market is big up for grabs after this, and we can expand our stadium to 60k. There are 180k Houston alumni in the city alone. The Houston brand in general is fairly known internationally, and with the rising academic standards of the place, we're dropping below 50% acceptance rate this year (35k apps, 16k admits, 7k join). Some of our programs, even in specific STEM fields, are starting to outrank UT, TAMU, and Rice. The Big3 Texas Public are consistently competing and establishing their ground.

It's the #1 most diverse FBS Institution in the nation. City of 3-4 million people. Also the Louisiana market, for proximity. Our main set of out of state is Cali, Louisiana, Illinois, and NY. We have an extreme cultural fit.

Some B1G forum suggested Houston but that won't happen.

The PAC won't take a religious school. We've been flirting with them for a long time and hosting their swim champs.

Any of the P4 that doesn't add Houston is missing out.


UH BS 20, VT MS 23.

Go Coogs, Go Hokies.

Houston and Memphis are a head above the rest (and both far better additions than Cincy or Navy imo). For the ACC I think out of that group Memphis is only one it makes sense to add. For geography, basketball, alumni base, market, etc.

Most likely it's ND and WVU though.

I think the ACC still cares somewhat about academics. AAC teams don't fit that bill. I know we let Louisville in but they are good at basketball. Of course, money will ultimately decide what needs to be done and who gets added if the ACC still exists...

Edit. I created the table below to illustrate my point. Rankings are based on the most recent US News rankings. Notre Dame is ranked 19. Those highlighted blue are the highest-ranked per conference and conversely so those marked as orange. *Wichita State did not have a ranking. Instead, they had a range. I recorded the lower end (lower number) of the range.


I have never thought that highly of WVU as a school, but I didn't realize they were the worst ranked school out of the entire P5. Yikes...

Yep, that stuck out to me too. Not a whole lot of educating going on up in those hills.

For those that may quip about outliers... Only Louisville (ACC), Northwestern(Big 10), and Nebraska (Big 10) are considered as such.


The only outcome really I don't want is for the Power 5 schools to be officially broken up into tier 1 and tier 2 categories. Even though it hasn't happened in a while, the possibility of a Cinderella season is one college footballs most appealing aspects.

I also have anxiety that we would be on the bubble between tier 1 and 2, but honestly if there are 30 to 40 teams in tier 1, I think we make the cut pretty easily.

the possibility of a Cinderella season game is one college footballs most appealing aspects.


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130 teams that technically a shot to win it all is what makes CFB so exciting. Good G5 teams beat P5 teams all the time, all 130 teams should get a chance to compete at this level.

More interesting matchups will come from teams actually having some balls in nonconference scheduling not throwing Texas and OU into an already loaded SEC schedule.

Also all conferences should play 8 game schedules so that we get more nonconference games. And limit FCS games to teams that were in the FCS playoffs the year before. Wofford should not count as a win towards Clemson's total every year.

I hope we can keep that post Thanksgiving rivalry weekend ACC vs. SEC thing going in Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida and Georgia.

Unless of course the SEC just takes those schools, too.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I know it's not going down how I'd like but hear me out for this P4 idea.

Move Texas, OU, Kansas, Boise St to the PAC to get them up to 16. Plains Pod of 4 new members, NW Pod (Ore/Wash schools), Cali Pod (USC, UCLA, Cal, Stan), Desert Pod (Utah, Col, AZ schools).

B1G then takes Iowa St and Kansas St, podding up North (Wisc, Minn, Mich, Mich St), West (Neb, Iowa, Iowa St, Kansas St), Central (Illi, NW, Purdue, IU), East (Ohio St, Penn St, Rutg, Maryland). Yes I realize that Central pod would be trash in football.

ACC gets ND and WVU. Pod up Atlantic (FSU, Miami, NCSU, Wake), Coastal (Clem, GT, Duke, UNC), Appalachian (VT, UVa, WVU, Pitt), Urban (BC, Cuse, Louisville, ND)

Give the SEC Texas Tech and Oklahoma St. Pod up West (Texas Tech, Ok St, Mizzou, A&M), Gulf (LSU, Ark, Ole Miss, Miss St), Central (Bama, Auburn, Tenn, Vandy) East (UGA, UF, USCe, UK).

This would leave Baylor and TCU out back. Maybe PAC would value Baylor more than Boise. It would strengthen the PAC from a football perspective and keep the other three leagues from gaining more than another in terms of football. I would consider it a well balanced 4 leagues. SEC still king of football but the other 3 leagues would all have 3-6 elite football programs. It would allow for a 64 team breakoff. Would make scheduling very easy for non-league games, just cross pod on rotating basis. Each league has 10 team regular season games.

For Playoffs - Pod winners meet over two weeks to determine conference champs and top 4 seeds in 16 team playoff. Pod winners that lose in 1st round of conference tourney would then be paired with top 8 pod runner ups from across the 4 leagues. (Imagine PSU, Tex, Mich, Wash, UF being pod runner ups during season) These top 8 pod runner ups now have "play in" style games vs the 8 pod winners that lose in the 1st round of conference tourney. This would determine the bottom 8 teams of the Super 16 Playoff field. 4 conference champs, 4 conference runner ups and 8 teams that either finished 1st or 2nd in their pod would make the 16 team playoff. Every team would now have a clear shot to make the final 16 as long as you finish 1st or 2nd in your pod during regular season. Would keep Illi, NW, Purdue, IU pod winner from getting into playoff over a PSU, UF that is ina tougher pod. Would make for a bunch of really interesting football.

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I am just waiting for the announcement that the SEC is kicking out Kentucky and Vanderbilt to make room for Texas and Oklahoma.

Can we add WVU and ND but tell WVU they have to give ND their portion of revenue share for the first 5 years?

In a different thread I mentioned how we just got one step closer to the NFL minor leagues when the NIL went in to action. These talks and the dominos that will follow will ultimately get us there. The NCAA is dead. My passion for this sport at a collegiate level is officially gone.

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Probably more or less what will happen. Might pave the way for resource caps though, which could help increase competition again. Just gotta find a line in the sand that the big schools can live with. They'll still be able to apply excess revenue to other areas of the university too.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I do NOT want to join the SEC. Why be the 10th best football program there when we can be top 5 here. The amount of money on the east coast and fans willing to go to games is not changing based on what conference we're in. The Acc in its current form will always be relevant, no one gets left out unless schools start jumping ship.

The ACC grant of rights is going to keep all of the current schools in place for another decade. If it was 2031, I would be more nervous right now.

I am just struggling to understand what Texas's end game is here. They have the largest athletic budget of any school. How is $10-20 million going to drastically change things? They have been pretty irrelevant outside of 2018 for the last 12 years. They are going to sign up for something that is going to make it harder to get wins. IMO they are more likely to go the Nebraska and Tennessee route (aka used to be relevant 20 years ago) than being the next Alabama. I guess that extra money will make watching the Vince Young Rose Bowl on the LHN on repeat easier to stomach.

The grander conspiracy is that the SEC is going to gobble up the biggest, tell the NCAA to F off and move on with the NFL lite, hosted by colleges but making a shit ton more money.

The thing I have with this is if the NCAA would still carry those schools' other sports or if the SEC becomes a full athletics ruling body. (That would destroy college basketball sadly)

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Top 5 ain't good enough. Boy, how our standards have slumped :(

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I think his argument is valid and why go somewhere where we are going to get caved in week after week where as here we actually have a shot at a divisional title and an upset bit at Clemson. It's a fair point really I'm not part of the run to the SEC argument because of this. We are competitive in the ACC in basketball and all other sports why jump to the SEC solely for football? I get the money argument but I don't think that money changes our competitive level for a long while if so.

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. why go somewhere where we are going to get caved in week after week where as here we actually have a shot at a divisional title and an upset bit at Clemson


To be the man. You gotta beat the man

I'm not refuting his point. I think you're missing mine. We used to be the top dog in the ACC pretty much since we arrived in the league in 2004. To aspire to be "top 5" is pretty pathetic. We should not be happy or satisfied with the fact that we've fallen so low to the point that we would rather be top 5 in a league we used to dominate than be a punching bag in a league we don't think we can compete in. That's BS. VT used to be a tough team that would take anyone to the wire any place any time. I'm simply lamenting that we're not that type of team anymore. This has nothing to do with whether we should join the SEC, stay put, or jump for some other league. It just makes me sad that our fans are okay with just being mildly competitive in the worst league in football.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I get it and would agree with that I guess its a solid point. I wouldnt necessarily say I'm okay with being mildly competitive in the worst league I guess I've gotten to the point where I realize financially I cant do anything to move the needle for the team. I've gotten to where I look around at CFB and the landscape has changed drastically and we simply arent going to be at that level we once were at and honestly it sucks but its not something I am going to get all worked up over anymore, does it suck, sure but it kind of is what it is. Doesnt mean I wont stop supporting the team or not watch, I'll still watch on saturdays and support the team best I can and if thats the best I can do then so be it.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I want to be good and fun to watch. I think that playing in the SEC would be more fun to watch than playing in the ACC. I also think that we could get better talent, and ultimately be a better program if we joined the SEC.

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Please don't add wvu to the ACC. Piss on them.

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Jay Bilas calling for the SEC and ACC to merge. History comes full circle and the original SoCon would be back together.

There doesnt need to be a merger. Just do a more formal scheduling partnership.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Would be better revenue sharing if they merged, though, which is key. Even if we just decide to have an inter conference scheduling arrangement, the SEC still pulls further away with funding.

It's kind of simple really. ACC and SEC merge, then the Big Ten and Pac 12 merge. Greater revenue sharing and flexible inter conference scheduling. ACC and SEC champions play each other as a national semifinal, same with Big Ten and Pac 12 champ. Two winners play for the natty.

Teams could be put in four-team pods and schedule similarly to the NFL. Play the other three in your pod always, play another four team pod within your conference and one from the other conference on a rotating basis for a total of 11 games. Pod winners are seeded for each conference and the playoff begins for game 12. Conference championship game 13, league championship game 14, and the winners of the two super leagues play for the national title at a max of 15 games.


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Honestly the best would be for the ACC to drop football. Let the football schools football elsewhere, drop UofL and get back to academic and Olympic sports.


Or course, there's already precedence for this, like the FCS where there's multiple football only conferences, who also have a non-football conference, like the CAA and Missouri Valley, and the same schools are not in both.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

This happens with power 5 schools in ice hockey.

But why the no? Why must VT play Football and Soccer against the same teams? Moving to the SEC means either no wrestling team or we are looking for another conference (lacrosse too).

But if VT played SEC football and ACC everything else wouldn't that be the best i most peoples mind?

Because athletic departments are recognizing the revenue off non-football ventures. SEC baseball is big. Basketball is a major revenue driver. Why separate that from the football money pot, or potentially decrease the value of other sports? These networks/streaming services will need inventory as well. Going to have to keep it all under one umbrella.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Maybe if the ACC didn't care about making money, but that ship has sailed.

If the ACC cared about making money we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that the ACC has two ranked basketball teams play on a regional network at prime time means they don't care.

Do you really think they're willingly leaving money on the table to have their teams play on lesser networks? They're just signing they're media deals for kicks?

Nepotism defies financial sensibilities

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

This is a bad take, which goes arm in arm with the "VT doesn't care about competing in football".

Of course they do, they just did a really bad job of it. Swofford was a trash commissioner and his son did a terrible job negotiating the TV contract.

Being inept =/= not wanting to succeed.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Not realizing your poor choices and the overall outcomes you produce becomes borderline not caring/wanting to do better and succeed. If consequences do not exist it is very easy to live with that status quo which in this case is not succeeding.

Unless you just don't know you are doing poorly. It's very possible that you can be inept AND think you are successful.

Get Angry, Bud!

Which as I stated below is way worse. Not being able to hit a baseball because you dont know how to swing a bat is much better than not knowing you need to step up to the plate, cause atleast if you are trying and failing you're in the game.

The difference between VT and the ACC is that VT has done a ton of work improving the athletic department. There is now a juice bar for players. They have increased the support staff. They hired VA guys in Tapp, Price, Smith and Tyler that know VA and can recruit VA, and its starting to pay off with the 4* OL and RB. Yes you can argue how does a juice bar help and is that the right way to spend money. But there is a huge difference in the entire football staff from 5 years ago. Maybe they aren't the right people, maybe they weren't the right people and have left. But they are making moves.

What has the ACC done for football since 2003? What about for basketball? We are talking about the SEC of basketball here. Since the BE folded no conference can hold a candle to the ACC. Yet we don't hear that like we do the SEC football.

Failing to fix an issue is soooooo much better than not realizing there is an issue. I think its wildly different in terms of ineptness.

they just did a really bad job of it. Swofford was a trash commissioner

Then shame on the university presidents who failed to hold him accountable. He works for them, after all.

Not that I disagree with you in the least. Swofford was terrible.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."


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The engineer in me wants consistency. There are 65 P5 teams, so I'd love to see four 16-team conferences plus ND. Then the conference championships could be the first round of a 12-team playoff - nice and neat. But I'm sure something much more messy will happen instead...

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I had the same thought the other day that no longer will there be a power 5 so maybe now finally 4 auto bids instead of 5 could do some nice symmetrical things.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Wouldn't the neater version of your scenario be for an 8 team playoff?

I was just trying to combine it with the current push for a 12-team playoff. Plus keeping it at 12 gives ND / G5 schools a chance.

So my thought was that the 12 teams would be the two teams from each conference that play in the "championship games" plus 4 others. If it was up to me I would leave it up to the conferences to determine who plays in these games. So if the SEC had 3 teams in the 12 team playoff, they could choose to have their #2 and #3 play in a "play-in" game instead of having it 1-2.

Winners of these games then become a part of an 8-team playoff in essence.

VT BSEE '98, VT MSME '01

Better Idea:

  • Eight 16-team conferences (P5 schools + G5 schools + ND - Liberty gives you ~128 teams)
  • Each conference has 2 tiers (champion tier and challenger tier)
  • Teams are promoted/relegated each season (based on whatever criteria each conference deams necessary
  • The winner of each conference's champion tier goes to an 8-team playoff (I'd prefer it to be 'all conference champions inside the top 12 + at large bids, but I digress)

BOOM! CFB is saved.

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We can go ahead and leave that last school out.

Missed the - sign there.

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In all seriousness, one of my worst nightmares is that Liberty somehow finishes ahead in this realignment scenario. I don't agree with their school's mission, but it would also hurt VT.

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The only way I see that happening is if they buy their way into a better situation. I can't imagine a conference wanting to take them before VT based on their reputation (not religious or political - referring to them not being a football powerhouse).

To clarify - I didn't mean 'liberty finishes ahead of VT'; I just meant that I don't want liberty to slide up in the 'pecking order' AT ALL. I think they could due to their evangelical base.

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Well they have had a football program 5 minutes and beat VT in Lane. Maybe they do have a better program. they make it look easy compared to VT lately

I haven't done all the numbers, but what if the Big10 and SEC trimmed the fat and absorbed the major players. Pac12 could do the same to create 3 major conferences and one of the best remnants. Example SEC cuts Arkansas, Missouri, Vandy, and likely Miss St. And takes on Clemson, Miami, FSU and UNC. Big10 cuts Nebraska, Indiana, Purdue, and Rutgers/Northwestern (jeezus there is a lot of dead football weight in the Big10), takes in ND, VT, maybe UVa. The remnants of GT, Wake, Vandy, Louisville, Missouri, Miss St, Arkansas, etc form a nice little middle of the east side conference.

The question would be where the basketball powers fit. Do the likes of Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Purdue, etc just say the hell with football and make a conference?

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

Example SEC cuts Arkansas

Big10 cuts Nebraska .. takes in VT

Cutting two of the most valuable 20 football schools while bringing in one that's around 30, when all three are struggling?

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Not sure if serious, but:

  • No one is getting kicked out of the SEC or B1G.
  • No one is leaving voluntarily, either.
  • The B1G isn't taking anyone who isn't an AAU member.
  • AAU aside, the B1G would almost certainly take UVA, dook, UNC, and GT all before VT. And probably Syracuse too.

The two most likely outcomes are four 16-team conferences, perhaps +ND, or two larger (24+ team) conferences, also likely +ND. Unfortunately, we blew our (potential) chance to join the SEC a decade ago. Our best hope appears to be that the ACC miraculously adds ND and a 16th team that gives us a snowball's chance in hell of being financially competitive. Either that or the $EC wants to grow beyond 16, and we get another shot at it. Unfortunately, neither seems likely. I doubt the ACC is going to convince ND to join, and even if we do, there isn't a 16th team that moves the needle financially, so we're going to continue to be tens-of-millions per team per year behind the B1G/SEC.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."

Agreed on most counts but the AAU membership for the Big Ten is a straw man. It doesn't really matter. It's a convenient excuse if they don't want to take a school, but if the right school came along that wasn't AAU it wouldn't matter at all.

Tend to agree that money trumps all, but practically speaking I don't think it matters. Anyone the B1G is liable to poach is probably an AAU member already, or close enough that they could rationalize it easily (e.g., Notre Dame, or Syracuse, who was an AAU member until 2011).

If they do decide to expand south/east, the crown jewels for them would likely be UVA and UNC. Both are already AAU so that point is moot. And obviously this only matters in a total-collapse-of-the-ACC scenario, which I think is unlikely.

But no matter how you slice it, VT to the B1G is about as likely as us hiring Saban to replace Fu.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."

Yeah if massive realignment were to occur and the ACC were to crumble I would think VT would be an SEC team and LOLUVA would be a Big Ten team.

I'd think UNC and Duke would both become SEC teams.

Agreed, UNC and Duke will be a package deal, primarily because of the basketball rivalry. If the ACC does crumble it will be interesting to see what happens with Wake. I will love to see UNC in a conference that isn't full of Carolina lackeys and doesn't revolve around them.

As sorry as I would feel for them, Wake would probably be more competitive in the AAC. Tech has a bigger freshman class than Wake's total enrollment.

They have beaten us 2 out of the last 3 in football. Awesome.

So, the challenge/risk with trimming the fat, making some smaller super making sure you have enough teams to maximize fan interest, to have enough games for a ton of content, and have rules to generate a reasonable amount of parity. Otherwise, all you are creating is a bad version of the NFL.

Two thoughts:
1. If the SEC continues expansion, VT (although down in football prowess) still brings the DC TV market which they don't currently have, and keeps the conference in the SE.
2. If the B1G and SEC go bigger, the ACC can't compete in the same fashion. What if it made ND #2 a full member, then gambled on lesser schools for a stronger football future with a NATIONAL TV market (each in a different state for fans & recruiting) by acquiring say (go west!) Houston #8, USF (Tampa#13), CSU or AF (Denver#16), SDSU (San Diego#27), Utah (Salt Lake City#30), Cinncinati #36, or UNLV (Las Vegas#40)? Maybe attempted steal on ASU (Phoenix#11), Minnesota (Minneapolis#13), or Rutgers (NY #1/Phil #4).


If ACC is forced to expand you have to go for UCF in second tier after ND. HUGE growing market, largest on campus university in the country, has added over 100,00 alums in last decade is now well over 300,000 alums.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

UCF doesn't add revenue, however. As long as this is being driven by a desire to add TV markets then the "right" move is the one that adds the most subscriber revenue to the ACCN bottom line. And sadly, the best of a pretty bad set of options in that regard might be Cinci.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."

You would piss off Florida State if you did that and that's already a perilous relationship between them and the ACC