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I agree- just thought it was interesting to hear a so-called "big time program" use his name - well, not the program, but someone close to the program.
i guess we can say "close to the program" - it would be like saying Bill Roth is close to the VT program... which he is.
Criqui is the "voice of the irish" so to speak - it would be like Bill Roth calling into ESPN to talk about the Hokies. Bill King used to do 247Sports radio - now has his own show on SiriusXM College Sports Nation - it's a nice alternative to Mike and Mike on the commute in.
It's pretty funny watching Pitt fans on twitter right now. Losing out on Montae Nicholson & Dravon Henry has them in panic mode. If Shai goes to either VT or GT, it might be a crisis. Haha
I still think ND is on a different level than those programs.
To be clear this ludicrous idea would be his 3rd chance ... he left Youngstown amid a lack of institutional control as well for which they self imposed the loss of some scholarships. Tressel lead a sham investigation within the statute of limitations where he did not even question the player accused of taking money. The only reason they didnt have their championship removed was due to a statute of limitations when more information came to light following the player tampering with a witness later in life for the booster that paid him the money.
Dont want any of that crap. I dont think that kind of history fits in the hokie nation regardless of where it was and what excuses exist. If he had stepped up in either event and said hey this is a problem like I believe Frank and Bud would do without hesitation ... come on down and welcome to Blacksburg ... but he didn't twice.
"Adversity does not build character it reveals it" - Pete Carril (Not Carroll ... another cut and run coach)
Bingo. Shai will probably have to redshirt his first year just to make sure his knee has healed properly.
That's an entirely different contractual argument. Buying merchandise, tickets or food from VT does not automatically sign you under a legally binding contract with the NCAA. No matter how much the NCAA wants it to be that way it can never police this either.
I've always kind of assumed the position involved holding Frank's clipboard, getting his drink etc. I've never really saw the position as being above a coordinator position.
And then you have the coaches who talked about the positives of fans tweeting recruits: http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=james-franklin-explains-the-1-thing-....
Kentucky wide receivers coach Tommy Mainord:
Mainord said, "I knew there was excitement (at UK), but I didn't know the level until I got to the office and felt it. You can't imagine when you're recruiting a kid out of high school and his twitter account jumps a thousand people in 2 hours because the fans found out who he was."
He added, "It is overwhelming to me and it really brings a new excitement that I didn't know we had to myself because I know what it's doing for recruiting. We can only do so much. When they feel the Big Blue Nation out there doing that... I can't tell you how many letters I write, how many phone calls I make, or how hard I work, the fans can pour so much into it that we can't see. It's awesome to see.
Vanderbilt head coach James Franklin:
Franklin said, "Social media has completely changed recruiting. What I mean by that is if you have a crazy fan base, if you've got a fan base that has 105,000, they love their team, and now they are all involved in social media, and they are blowing up these kids on twitter all the time."
He added, "So the two things that have impacted recruiting more than anything is facilities and social media. You're not supposed to contact the recruits, but you can't control it. I see that as big of an impact in recruiting as anything."
"These kids are all about twitter followers. You get offered from a school, and the next day you have 4,000 followers from that school, and they're all saying you should come to that school and this is the reason why. That's not supposed to happen, but there's no way to control it. It has a huge factor."
According to the NCAA, any purchase of goods and services from a university sports program makes you technically a booster. As a booster you are prohibited from contact with recruits who may choose to attend your university. The rule has nothing to do with anyone's constitutional rights.
OK, well let's say I tweet a recruit that says "Hope you go to VT". I have no legal ties to the NCAA or the school. The NCAA says its a violation and draws penalties on the school. So the legal proof that the NCAA would have to show is that somehow I am either tied to the school or that the school has the ability to limit my interaction with a recruit, which they cannot. So the NCAA pushes it and fines the school and the school fights back. When it's finally drawn down to the basic argument it would be this. Does this fan have a right to speak to the recruit and as such is the school legally and financially responsible for that fan? No way. VT has no legal responsibility for my actions because ultimately I have the right to say whatever I want to whoever I want. (they may bar me from walking on campus again though)
Let's take another example. Say I spout of 50 tweets to LOLUVA recruits saying how if they commit I will get them all laid by some beautiful coeds. The NCAA immediately penalizes LOLUVA for my tweets because it was contact, however in reality I am a VT fan. LOLUVA would argue that it cannot police any one fan's right to speak.
No it doesn't make sense. It's impossible for the NCAA to police this because intrinsically this comes down to the freedom of one individual to speak to another.
Great point. Billy Hite was associate HC from 2001-2010, and no one thought that was a slight to Foster. I think those kind of titles are just bureaucratic, really. Not the same as head-coach-in-waiting or anything.
The point was, if you work for a company, it's part of the agreement you sign. In essence, the company isn't taking your right of speech away, you're giving it away. You would be in violation of contract to do otherwise. Since fans don't work the NCAA, nor do fans sign a document barring them from contacting any recruit, there's not breach of contract, there's no violation of rules that the fan agrees to with the NCAA. Fans do not give their right up and sign any documentation stating that they agree to anything.
So it's really just a matter of saying "Please don't do that."
Not old enough my man. I believe that's young Drew Barrymore from firestarter (1984)
The NCAA doesn't have the resources to follow up on every social media contact, but they do have the rules in place that allows them to do so. You're correct in that the NCAA cannot punish fans individually, but they can punish the school for improper contacts with recruits. The reasoning is that the people contacting the recruits are boosters who have paid for tickets or merchandise, which in turn, goes to support their sports program.
In short, it's not a good idea to have conversations with recruits for any reason. At the very least, the contact can have the opposite effect from that intended and cause the recruit to dismiss that fan's school as a possible destination.
Agreed on all accounts. But when has a huge sports organization ever acted in a logical manner? NFL? NCAA?
DON'T TWEET RECRUITS. Thanks for the forum.
I don't think not being named associate HC was a slight. IF for some reason Frank got injured during a game, you don't want one of your coordinators having to assume that mantle. I would look at the pay. ND is a big name in college football but they haven't really been relevant in a long time, last year not withstanding.
Boosters: check. Even Students: check. Normal fan with no affiliation with the school other than a liking for its football program, no way. There is no implied contract there. Watching the Hokies play on TV or even buying a ticket does not make you contractually bound to the NCAA.
Look, I want to say again, I do not advise people doing it. I just dislike the idea that NCAA can limit the rights of everyday people. They can't.
Did the kid from Problem Child have a kid? Damn I am old.
Verily!
If you are acting as a representative of the school (which as fans we are) then you are bound by that contract whether you signed anything or not. If you have ever given anything to the school, you are a booster and fall under the rules as well.
I guess I'm missing the Constitutional implications of the tweet - Bailey is reminding people they shouldn't be doing this. The net effect is that, no, the NCAA cannot punish us as individual people. You're right about that. But it can, in fact, punish VT if our fan base continually tries to influence recruits. It's really VT's obligation to try to stop it (due diligence), though no one will hold them accountable for anyone's actions (hence stupid rule). The legal challenge would exist between VT and the NCAA in that case, and it would have to be demonstrated that VT has the reasonable ability to regulate people acting on its behalf. In the age of social media, that's utterly impossible. This, to me, is still not a rights issue at all, though. It's a contractual one, though we're really debating a stupid clause in a contract that appears to be very poorly worded (because it is far too generic).
"I'm not saying you guys should do it, because that would be illegal, but if some fans were to tweet recruits, that'd be awesome."
-James Franklin
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