Coordinator, Position Coach, and Support Staff search thread Part 2: The Squeakquel

Use this thread to discuss developments, rumors, and suggestions with respect to Coach Pry's staff and the football program.

Each new announcement gets its own thread, and I'll update the main post here to reflect those updates.

JC Price is retained as associate head coach/DL coach.

TTU Co-DC/DB coach Derek Jones is expected to join Brent Pry's staff

Official: Shawn Quinn joins coaching staff

Chris Marve is the new DC

Tyler Bowen expected to be named OC

Stu Holt joins staff at ST coordinator and RB coach

Brad Glenn to be named QB Coach and Passing Coordinator

Pry names Prioleau safeties coach

ODU's Dwight Galt IV hired as director of football strength and conditioning

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

So no rumors on the OC, yet. Sure hope we aren't getting cornholed with this one

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What's the rush? ...we haven't had one for the last 6 years...

We put the K in Kwality

Someone texted me this morning saying they heard that Tyler Bowen (current Jacksonville Jaguars TE Coach, former PSU co-OC) is targeted as our OC, but I have zero clue how reliable that is.

[incoherent gobbling noises]

the two rumors I've heard are Tyler Bowen and Joe Brady. I think the Joe Brady rumor is just wishful thinking and is highly unlikely. Tyler Bowen probably has more legs but at this point who knows? I hope we hear something soon. There are arguments (which make sense to me) that by going a little cheaper on the Defense since Pry will be the de facto DC starting out we are saving money for an OC who can demand a higher paycheck. The thinking there, of course, is that we'd be getting an OC who is worth that money. A guy with a proven track record and plenty of experience. A guy who can be trusted to run his offense independently since Pry will be so focused on the defense. That might rule out someone like Tyler Bowen. He has some experience as an OC but not a ton. And he's never been solely in charge of an entire offense for more than a single season. Doesn't make a lot of sense for Pry to hire a guy who probably still needs some grooming and growth for OC. That will force Pry to split his time more evenly between Offense and Defense and that could hamper the defense.

Onward and upward

So, just circling back to this now that the Tyler Bowen rumor has real smoke now. I'm a little disappointed (and, no, Fireman, it's not because I think we should have gotten Gattis, FFS. It's because there are dozens of OCs who have more than 1 year of OC experience)

Pry does seem to be pretty targeted in his coaching hires. He's aiming to get guys who can recruit really well. Most of his hires are generally regarded as great recruiters. He's also pegging guys who have extensive experience with defensive, and now offensive line play. It's becoming more clear to me that Pry wants to get back to the identity that made VT great back in its hey day. He wants to dominate the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. We're going to play hard nosed, suffocating defense. He wants to take away the running game of our opponents and he wants to run the ball down their throats. I can appreciate that he has a vision and he's hiring coaches who will help achieve that vision. I think that is where he's going, anyway. This OC hire projects a heavy dose of power running football with some PA passing tacked on. I don't think we're going to be a barn-burner team. It's going to be a ball-control style that will limit scoring. I'm not super hyped for it but it is VT's identity. So there's that. I guess.

Onward and upward

supposedly gunner givens, ramon brown, and rashaud pernell now follow bowen on twitter. I'm not well versed in twitter so can't confirm if this is new or not. But definitely eye catching. Sort of like how the entire new coaching staff as it exists followed Herb Hand and that also makes sense given the connections to everyone. all just guessing at this point.

Bitter mentioned the Twitter follows in his mailbag this morning, so that's confirmed.

that's where i read it too. what i mean is, how do you know if it's a new follow or an existing follow? because Bowen used to recruit for PSU not all that long ago and it stands to reason these kids could have followed him then and just never unfollowed him.

I think it's just as telling that in a question about the OC Bitter spent the entire section talking about Bowen without a single mention of any other target. That says to me he highly expects Bowen to be the choice (and may even know for sure).

How telling are Twitter follows though? If you're not going to make an announcement for some reason, but you always start following your selection on Twitter ahead of time, you're basically telling everyone who it is anyway. If you're going to telegraph moves like that, why not just announce?

Looking at Bowen's resume, he doesn't have the length of time as an OC that I think a first time HC, especially one who has primarily focused on defense, would want/need to be successful. Any chance Bowen comes on board for some NFL credibility but remains a position coach, similar to Teerlinck, and we get a more experienced OC to really run the offense?

"ANYTHING IS POSSIBLEEEEE!!!!"

-Kevin Garnett

It's true. Also followed by Coach Pry, Coach Marve, and Coach Smith. And a few of the players I follow.

Wait, what?

Bowen was play caller for PUS's bowl game after Rahne left for ODU and PSU ran for 396 yards, so it would be a good fit since we have 40 running backs on our roster.../s

1-0 every week

So the coaching staff right now, maybe?

HC: Pry
DC: Marve
DL: Price
LB: Quinn
S: Jones
CB: Smith

OC: ??
QB: ??
WR: ??
TE: ??
RB: ??
OL: ??

ST: ??

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I think Quinn will be LBs and Smith and Jones will be Safeties and CBs (I'd guess Smith for S and Jones for CB).

I wouldn't be surprised if Marve is the LB coach and Quinn is on the DL with Price.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Interesting point - Quinn definitely has experience on the line. Actually, the more I think about it, that does make a fair amount of sense, unless Pry wants Marve to shadow him as much as possible to share all the things he'd want in his defense to where also being a position coach would take away from that time. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

unless Pry wants Marve to shadow him as much as possible to share all the things he'd want in his defense to where also being a position coach would take away from that time.

GTFOH with your excellent and rationale thoughts that make entirely too much sense and make the puzzle pieces seemingly fall together.

*Some* folks round here don't take too kindly to that sort of optimism.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

Time to start BowenUp on offense.

I work in the government and I said something in a meeting, to which someone replied "are you trying to use logic in the government?" And a bunch of people literally laughed at that. {sigh}

LOL. As a former state Gov't employee as well and former higher ed. employee, the logic generally used is, whatever makes the most sense: do the opposite. Have to have humor about it.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

Time to start BowenUp on offense.

In the context at the time though, it was very discouraging. Idealism and logic seemed to be fairly frowned upon, whereas jadedness and cynicism pay dividends. I guess it translates well to being a college football fan sometimes as well...

I've experienced the same working with banks and basically anything finance related as well as medical related companies. I think it's true of basically all large organizations.

So the grass ain't greener you say?

it even happens at large chemical companies, especially in upper management, which is why Dr. Chumps bet on himself, put his name in the portal, and will be starting somewhere else in January. The grass isn't guaranteed to be greener, but the technical management is tied to their pet projects like Fu was tied to Corn, despite all the evidence to the contrary that it's not working out.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It definitely happens at large chemical companies same is also true for large pharma companies.

uva - the taint of the ACC

Congestion on your career change!

Hilton Bradley, almost my least favorite board-game-manufacturer-turned-perpetually-angry-mid-aughts-baseball-player!!!!!!!!!!!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This made me LOL "congestion"

I certainly hope you enjoy the new job much more than you do your current one, but hope you still have plenty of time to TKP!

Riddler is our whole Offensive Coaching staff?

Any chance Pry's defense will be so good, we don't even need to play offense?

And the rest of those funds can go elsewhere?

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0-0 end of regulation scores you say?

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

14-0 wins with two defensive scores is much better.

S&C: ??

Very important!!

"War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.โ€~~Judge Holden

On Tech's coaching staff, it shows Hilgart under "Support Staff", so must not count against the 15.

Edit: not disagreeing that it's very important, so hope we can bring in a really good one.

Two Hokies I would love to see comeback to Blacksburg:

  • Shannon Turley: Ex-Stanford S&C, now at Colorado. Has a reputation as one of the elite S&C in the country. Rumor was he was let go at Stanford in 2019 after jokingly mooning/flashing a player during a conditioning drill. Would be an absolute game-changer for us.
  • Mason Baggett: Assistant S&C at Oregon (head guy at Oregon viewed with the same esteem as Turley). Previously stints at UMD and Illinois. Previously was the S&C coach for the 2nd Marine Raider Battalion at Camp Lejeune.

Not sure how reliable/in the know McDaniel is, but second tweet lends some credence

I feel like whoever is the Special Teams coordinator will also need to be a position coach, or personally handled by Pry

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I think that's usually how it's done, not sure if that's partly because of constraints over total number of coaches?

CFB coming back to coach special teams
#Beamerball

uva - the taint of the ACC

How many official/position coaches are allowed? 10? Does that include the head coach?

There seems to be an online push to bring Shayne Graham back to be a ST coach, if not coordinator now that Mullen is out in Florida.

I'd be down for it.

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Under the proposal tabled Wednesday, the designated staff members would be required to pass the NCAA recruiting exam every year before engaging in any recruiting activities. It also would require the number of designated individuals to include the head football coach, all assistant football coaches (maximum of 10) and all graduate assistant football coaches (maximum of four in FBS football). For an FBS football program that has the maximum permissible number of football coaches (15), up to 15 other individuals could be designated.

So one head coach, ten assistant coaches, and four grad assistants for a total of 15.
Link.

Excellent, thanks! So should the defense play out like this, there has to be some combined options on the offensive side:

HC (DC): Pry

DC (co-): Marve
DL/AHC: Price
LB: Quinn
S: Jones
CB: Smith

OC/QB: ??
WR: ??
OL: ??
TE/ST: ??
RB: ??

Those seem pretty likely to me, but maybe ST might go with Jones since he has experience with it already?

It appears a couple offensive linemen are hoping/planning to be in Blacksburg this weekend. I'm wondering if they have been told they should come meet the new OC in person but no one has been told who that is and will be announced Saturday.

I didn't get the chance to respond to this comment in the original thread before it was locked down but I wanted to.

I think Fuente was the architect of the offense and I think the offense can actually be very effective in the hands of a competent coach. However, I think Cornelsen just simply doesn't understand how to use the offense. He had some "great" games calling plays but he also had real duds and he was just as inconsistent as our players' execution was. To me, that's more a function of the architecture being really good but the coach/playcaller not understanding the offense well enough. The "great" games were just blind-squirrel-nut type of games where the structure of the offense was good enough, despite the play calls, to be effective. The bad games were results of the play caller being completely lost and unable to take advantage of the structure of the offense. The plays that worked were there. Just look at any of French's reviews. We just went away from them a lot.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Cornelsen is a complete idiot wielding a weapon which he has no idea how it works. Like a baby picking up a light sabre. He cut his own toes off more often than not. I really think that any competent coach could make Fuente's offense very effective. I maintain that Fuente is a really good offensive coach and a terrible judge of how inept his buddy was at running the offense.

Onward and upward

But if Corny was running it that poorly, wouldn't Fuente realize it? I know when I'm at work I am hyper aware of the mistakes someone makes when they take over on a project I used to manage.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Fuente either did realize it but valued his friendship over his career so he stuck his neck out for BC to the bitter end or he didn't realize it.

If your best man takes over a project of yours at work and then starts making mistakes how do you handle that? It might have been really uncomfortable for Fuente to realize that Cornelsen, his best friend and confidant, was terrible as an OC. Maybe Fuente realized it but just didn't know how to handle it. So he just hoped that Cornelsen would figure it out. But that never happened and he lost his job.

Onward and upward

I think that's what happened. Fu knew the offense wasn't up to par. His relationship with Corn is what ultimately got him fired. I bet if he fired Corn last year and we had a new OC this past year with similar results we would still have fu.

He put everything on Corn and hoped he would make it work but he didn't and Fu lost his job over it.

One of the reasons I like the Pry hire so much is that he isn't just bringing all his coaches with him like a chadwell hire probably would have done.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Good points, and maybe there are ways to run it more effectively than what Corny did, but I still maintain it was much more effective with certain players (Evans and Herbert). And I look at the rotation of QBs and RBs as at least some evidence of them trying to find the right player (like they are trying to put a square peg in a round hole, but they can't even see the shape of the hole, so they're just trying all the different pegs until one actually fits).

If the fix was as easy as Fu taking over play calling from his best friend wouldn't he have done that to save both their jobs?

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you would think. Coincidence that the two weeks Fuente "Spent more time with the first team offense" we played pretty well offensively? (Syracuse, GT)

I think Fuente was really adamant about being a CEO type of HC. He wanted to be hands off. Let his coordinators do their jobs. Cornelsen wasn't doing his job very well and Fuente was finding every excuse in the book to explain it. He really stuck his neck out for his best man and it cost him his job. It's a bit of a no-mom-thinks-their-baby-is-ugly situation. Fuente either knew it and was in denial, or refused to see the truth that was right in front of him. It'll be really interesting to me to find out where Fuente ends up. Will Cornelsen be with him? How will the offense look?

Onward and upward

you would think. Coincidence that the two weeks Fuente "Spent more time with the first team offense" we played pretty well offensively? (Syracuse, GT)

... which meant he spent less time with the scout team and the defense struggled if I remember correctly which is interesting.

I too think Fuente is a good offensive coach and I'm interested in what his next step will be. I think he got himself in a situation here where he just didn't have the answers.

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This brings up an interesting issue of Lightsaber Control within the Star Wars Universe.

I firmly believe that offenses have a shelf life of like 10 years max. You either create something everyone copies (Hal Mumme's concepts are all over the place, DickRod's read option is used by almost every team) or they are solved (hurry up offense are basically dead from the go as fast as you can mentality).

So I'm not sure how good Fuente's offense would be, but I do know if my RB is averaging 9.4 ypc on 18 carries i am not going to bring in my backup QB that isn't going to throw to run the ball and fumble. I am going to have my starter hand the ball off until the other team stops it. And if you don't think like that then WTF are you doing being a coach?

Really interesting post, never thought of it like that.

I guess I would say you have 10 years max of 'out-scheming' someone with lesser talent. Over time as the system becomes more widely adopted and merged with other systems, you eventually will no longer be able to get by with a noticeable talent disparity.

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New offensive staff being kept under wraps cause they're playoff bound

No sauces, wishful thinking

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

To continue this discussion that was just locked out of the last thread:

I don't 100% believe the rumor that the OC is locked up either, just speculation. I will say I'm not managing my expectations, the writing on the wall does seem like its going to be a splash hire?

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

It's never going to happen but we should shoot our shot and offer Gattis $1.5M and see if he bites (scheduled to make $1M in 2022 for UMich).

No sauces, wishful thinking

well, at least you're honest

Onward and upward

His All Time Recruit list is quite impressive!

1-0 every week

How do you know this? Not doubting you, just wondering how much smoke there is.

Every new announced Hokies coach plus Whit just followed him on Twitter.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Looking at his career, he worked with Pry for several years at Vandy and Penn St. He currently has a G5 position despite being in P5 for most of his career. It definitely makes sense. Good fit on paper.

I wonder why he left Penn St. for Auburn though.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

Retained by Franklin at Vandy, followed Franklin to Penn St, moved to Auburn to coach with Malzahn (previous experience together) and then Texas to be co-OC. Wasn't retained by Sarkisian so he went to UCF to coach with Malzahn again. None of that really worries me too much, especially if he's going to be OL coach. We'll see if he's OC.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Am I wrong in thinking that even if Hand isn't the OC, we're probably close to having an OC finalized? CBP is molding the defense until Marve is ready to take over, so it made sense to have those position hires announced before Marve, but if I'm the OC working for a defensive-minded HC, I'm going to want a lot of say in who is working under me.

Is that like the new flight tracker?

Looks like he knows how to get the run game going.

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This would be a damn good hire.

Not disagreeing at all (I have no opinion), but the Texas fans seem to have really hated him, judging by a Twitter search.

Also a big pro, seems to have a BBQ side hustle.

โ€œIn order to conquer an animal, I have to think like an animal, and whenever possible, look like one.โ€
โ€” Carl Spackler

So as someone who lives in Texas and knows a few Texas fans, they are more delusional than any other fan base I have lived around (and I have lived in Georgia and Tennessee, so that is saying something)

As OC?

I hope not. We can rationalize a DC with no DC experience but I feel like we should be going after an established OC

(add if applicable) /s

Yeah I agree. Two coordinators who have never been coordinators before, with this salary pool, would be a big time red flag imo

If your talking about Hand he has been an OC before.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I still wouldn't call him an established OC

(add if applicable) /s

Could you define established OC then? Most established OC'S are either looking for a HC job, staying at their current role for increased pay or a jump to the top P5 teams.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I would qualify established as someone who has and still is an OC. Plenty of P5 and G5 to poach from especially with the $ we should have to offer.

I think Hand is a great experienced coach to bring in and has coached under some spectacular names but his only solo bout at OC was Tulsa a decade ago. I'll also clarify that Hand isn't exactly a name I've followed so I'm just going off his resume maybe I'm wrong.

(add if applicable) /s

+1

I'm okay taking an up and comer at DC, since they can be mentored by Pry. I'm concerned about taking this approach with OC. I'd feel much more comfortable with a 'proven entity' at OC.

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Reading further down the thread and looking at who's following Tyler Bowen on twitter its also a possibility that we mold together a few guys that have some OC experience to run the offense a strategy I could get behind.

I guess I expected a home run OC with the amount of money we have in the pool. We'll see how it plays out.

(add if applicable) /s

Define home run? Did you think Gattis was leaving Michigan for Tech?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I clearly already defined what I expected in the posts above replying directly to you.

(add if applicable) /s

You defined established now your looking for home run hires, or is any established OC a home run hire for you?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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It's a figure of speech. I'm not going to categorize every potential OC for your understanding.

(add if applicable) /s

But you can't establish why these names don't meet your standard but other unnamed ones would and Pry would have a real shot of hiring to Tech.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I'm going to stop replying after this because I've clearly stated why I don't think Hand is a qualified OC.

The gap of potential OCs between Hand and Gattis is ridiculously large.

(add if applicable) /s

did you know gattis was a broyles award semifinalist

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm sure there are plenty of coaches out there who have more experience than Bowen who aren't named Gattis. I think Kittley would have been a great hire, for instance. I never heard of him before somebody mentioned him on TKP but looking at his resume he's got several years experience as an OC with a couple different teams (granted, at lower levels) and he comes from a respectable coaching tree and has delivered stellar results at all of his stops. He's young but his resume is impressive. I'm certain there are plenty of other offensive coaches with similar career profiles who nobody here has ever heard of.

Onward and upward

I wondered this too. Are we hiring two dudes with "co-OC" experience to be our co-OC's?

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If this happens I hope it doesn't become a "too many cooks" situation. Because that's how you end up with machete wielding serial killer and a weird puppet in your house.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Maybe we have an OC signed up, but not able to announce yet, and these are his picks for assistants - which also have not been announced.

I mean, the TSL podcast floated the idea of wiggins as passing OC and Bowen as running OC and then bringing steinspring back as TE/recruting. Between the three of there should be enough know-how to get something going. The question is, is that too many hands in the cookie jar? I like the Passing and Running coordinator idea but someone has to have the undisputed last say in all matters.

seems unnecessarily complicated to have under a first time head coach. who calls the plays?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This is where we invent a new offense where one guy calls the passing play, the other calls the running play and the QB decides which one to run at the line of scrimmage.

I think it could work.

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You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

I actually like this idea...weirdly

Onward and upward

Well we went to the national championship game with the QB calling his own plays so I can see why some one would like it.

I guess I expected a home run OC with the amount of money we have in the pool. We'll see how it plays out.

if I recall correctly (don't have USA Today salary database open right now), the 50th highest paid assistant was making around $875k.

Let's say marve makes $750k, JCP makes $500k (bc he's AHC too) and the three remaining defensive assistant makes $300k. That leaves us with $3.35M for the other side of the ball. Let's say $500K for position coach + STC, then $300k for everyone except coordinator. That leaves us with $1.95M for OC. Good for a top 5 coordinator in 2020, probably top 15 in 2021.

That said, I'm not sure how accurate my other estimates are. $300k average for the bottom six assistants feels a little low, as does the $500k for STC and AHC. The cost is growing rapidly. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

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How likely is it that we're paying Marve something like 500k until Pry gives him control of the D, pays a little more on the offensive side, then uses those incentives for wins to pay for Marve's bump up?

0% chance IMO. Marve made $500k last year at FSU. He's getting a promotion, and the market is inflating. I think there's a small chance he's in the $600s, but most likely that he's in the $700s or $800s.

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Well, yeah, seems pretty clear I'm wrong. Oh well, it's been known to happen. Moving on to the offense, I guess we'll see how Mr. Bowen does - wonder what his salary will be and what position coaches we get on O.

I want someone who has a record of success at OC. I'm okay with that being a G5 coordinator (a la Chad Morris & Clemson) - Brad Glenn, Keith Heckendorf, Garrett Riley, Mike Denbrock, and Zach Kittley would all be solid hires from the G5 IMO. From the P5, Liam Coen and Brian Lindgren are two proven commodities we could afford.

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I think Kittley was just hired by Texas Tech, FYI

Onward and upward

A Herb in hand is worth two Cornelsons in the bush

A Herb in hand smokes the defense...

uva - the taint of the ACC

I've seen Chris Beatys name thrown around a lot.

How realistic/unrealistic would that be?

Doesn't he have a bit of a stink everywhere he goes? Like I've heard he is a good recruiter but slimy and a terrible coach, unless this is someone else I'm thinking of.

Nope, you are spot on. He is indeed very connected, but there is a *lot* of baggage he drags with him.

I don't think he'd be in the NFL if he couldn't coach at all tho

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

No idea if it's likely, but he spent 8ish years coach high school ball in VA. Coached with Pry at Vandy. Coached at UVA and MD. Has one year of co-OC experience at MD.

I don't feel great about a (basically) first time coordinator as the OC for a defensive coach. But it's pry's team.

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Better than 7 years as Div 2, FCS and 1 year non-coaching position

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I know we are impatient, but maybe they have most, if not all of, the pieces in place but are drawing out the official announcements to prolong and take advantage of the social media boost and to give each coach their own day (although it looks like Jones and Quinn were announced on the same day, so much for that). Most likely it is just about minutiae like getting the appropriate paperwork signed.

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like getting the appropriate paperwork signed.

a part of me has been wondering if this is a factor. I guess it's possible that they need to get through some hoops before an announcement can be made. You'd think stuff would leak, though.

Onward and upward

Precisely. Marve was announced yesterday and there was no smoke or rumors but yet CBP and the other coaches were out visiting recruits.
The OC and others have been chosen, it's just a matter of signing the contracts and buttoning up loose ends.

uva - the taint of the ACC

A little OT, but... Seeing Elliot's name as the new front runner for UVA head whistle on Twitter. What do you guys speculate happened with Poindexter? Before Marve was hired, I wondered if Pry would bring Dex here with him as DC? Curious what went on behind the scenes with all that...

Rumors were that UVA wasn't willing to pay what Dex wanted.

Sounds like he's not coming to Blacksburg either. I can't imagine he'd leave for VT for anything less than DC.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

UVA was like, "he looks good on paper, but look where he went to school..."

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Rumors were that UVA wasn't willing to pay what Dex wanted.

Which is in the same vein as the reasons why I was hearing that Bronco quit. That is, UVa is not willing to dedicate the resources necessary to be a competitive program going forward.

This is my school
This is home

Not to mention, it seemed like it was almost a done deal and donors were excited to give if 'Dex came back. A quick reversal probably further agitates what was already a fractured relationship between the admin and 'Dex. I am letting the hate flow through me.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Now I kinda really don't care who they get cause Dex was their best option from a momentum/culture fit.

They can't pay Dex and from what other twitter smoke is they wouldn't budge on moving the academic standards. They've got a likely trajectory to the bottom of the ACC again.

(add if applicable) /s

They will pine for the days of TimeCop

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

They've got a likely trajectory to the bottom of the ACC again.

Academic standards gets a dismissive wanking motion from me.

Duke, ND, Stanford, GT, Michigan etc. have managed to put together programs that have been competitive. It's a BS excuse.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Or Texas, Florida, UCLA, ND. Really plenty of examples of universities at and around UVA's level of prestige that regularly outcompete them on the football field. On some level I just think the "academic standards" people mistakingly believe their peers are Brown, Princeton, and Harvard rather than the prior list.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Two of those are not like the others when it comes to academic standing of athletes.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Are you talking about that college admissions scandal where Hollywood types were paying to put their kids on under water basket weaving scholarships? I don't think that's what's driving this.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

No, he means that scholarship athletes at Texas + Florida (and most P5 schools) aren't held to the same admission requirements as regular students. They're held to NCAA minimums and perhaps some oddball school specific criteria. (for example VT requiring that extra math class for all students including athletes) UVA and Notre Dame are notable examples of schools who refuse to relax their admission requirements for athletes (or relax them only partially).

A few years ago there was a report on admissions stats for various football programs. It may have just been ACC. There was nothing elite about UVAs admissions stats for football players that I recall. In fact, I don't remember them sticking out at all. They too, have degree programs geared toward easier graduation for those that need it. It's all excuses. I wish I could find the article now.
Also, I looked at overall admissions stats a few years ago for both VT and UVA. What I recall was that the gpa and standardized test scores mostly overlapped. The biggest difference was that VT accepted more students in the "tail of the distribution." The average would be a little lower for VT but the median was very much the same.

GT has it way harder than UVA too. GT only offers Bachelors of Science, no BAs. They don't offer majors in English, Communications, etc. Everyone has to take multiple post-calculus math classes. They have an excuse. UVA does not.

Twitter me

That's just insane.

According to Jerry Ratcliffe -- it sounded like Poindexter and UVA had overcome the money issue and that Carla Williams (UVA AD) was in Las Vegas to have Poindexter sign.

It also sounded like Elliott had been told he was out of the running -- must be awkward to have to go back to him.

If Poindexter had issues with money -- I'm not sure Elliott would feel differently. Both guys come from programs that will pay in order to have a chance of success.

Also sounds like UVA is having issues with fundraising -- Poindexter may have been able to invigorate some donors to pitch in.

Definitely doesn't help that UVA lost to JMU in basketball last night.

I wonder if it's salary or salary pool. I also wonder when in the conversation that stuff comes up. Like, do coaches agree in principle to their salary, then come back to talk staff salary?

Twitter me

No idea about coaching contracts, but generally in any major contract there is an agreement on a "term sheet" which is an agreement in principle on major terms prior to an agreement of the contract. Anything that is important to one party or the other is on that term sheet.

If I was a coach, both salary and salary pool are on that term sheet and agreed upon in principle early, as these go hand in hand and hugely important to the overall success.

EDIT: Mike Nizoliak of the Roanoke Times FOIA'd the "letter of intent" (aka term sheet) between VT and Brent Pry. It included many of the key terms, including salary and salary pool. Pry also included some less traditional terms in this initial agreement, such as increases in support staff budget with more wins in a season (probably bonuses for staff?). Details of this agreement are provided by Nizoliak Here.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

100%
If money was an issue (which it sounded like it was, then it was worked out, and finally it wasn't), I'd imagine that gets discussed over phone/Zoom before meeting in person to close the deal.

I seriously thought Poindexter was going to announce the job during his induction to the CFB HOF.

Possible he got a nice counter offer from PSU and decided to wait for a better opportunity.

Tweet from Hughie McCombs, whoever he is.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

If a homer like Dex couldn't get satisfactory feedback on facilities, support staff, etc., I find it really hard to see Elliott jumping on that ship for his first HC gig. A first-time coach needs supportive administration and boosters.

This is good news. From the sound of it, it appears that UVA is content with being mediocre rather than reading/seeing the writing on the wall that Dex is suggesting to get them over the hump far off in the distance...

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

Time to start BowenUp on offense.

"Botched certain interview questions"

This is like when you ask the hiring manager why the position has so much turnover.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Edit: I reread the tweet and see that it may have been academics related.

I really question if UVA's standards are that high where it makes it hard to compete.

I mean, you still have schools like Michigan and Stanford that still manage to do well.

On top of that, UVA recruits the same players as everyone else in the ACC.

Notre Dame makes do pretty well with those high standards.

We put the K in Kwality

I can't imagine he'd leave PSU for VT. Isn't he co-DC up there now and he's a UVA grad so...

Bronco was making more than Fuente and more than what Pry makes now, and they're getting out from Bronco without buyouts. I guess it could be staff/support budgets related, but have to imagine they'd be willing to give the $3-4.5mil going rate for first time P5 head coaches. And they have been investing heavily in their facilities past couple years with some major projects soon to be completed or in the works. Have to imagine there's more to it than this.

From what I hear the fundraising for those facilities improvements have stalled. They need a hire that excites the donors. Dex probably would have done it, if the guy they end up with doesn't they're in some trouble. Personally, I'm glad UVA crapped their pants on the Poindexter hire. Anybody worth a crap will want the same things he did to take the job.

Ya'll got any more of them offensive coaches?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Something like...

uva - the taint of the ACC

How do you get more without getting one? /s

"You're killing me, Smalls!"

.... this is the most perfectly written thing I've ever seen on this site
-8300A_Hokie'12

If it's on WikiPedia, it must be true - right?

It's gone. Tyler Bowen's wiki entry briefly had a note saying he was named VT's OC tomorrow, 12/10.

I've personally updated UVa's Wiki a few times to say they are the University of Virginia at Charlottesville. For some reason they keep removing it, but if someone else wants to help keep it going, by all means....

This is my school
This is home

Just gave er an update. See how long it lasts.

Heh, nice

Please, lets make this a thing

This is my school
This is home

How hard is it to be OC?

We've all played Tecmo Bowl. All six plays work if you have Dan Marino or Bo Jackson.

Same goes with NCAA 14. I can drop close to 100 points by going 4 verticals every play.

4th and 37 from my own 22? Game says I should punt....nah. Four Verticals it is.

Dumb question - if you can basically score with 4 verticals anytime you want, how do you get to 4th and 37 from your own 22?

Because you tried to get fancy with all of the read option type plays that weren't in Madden so you have to play around with them in NCAA and end up lateralling to nobody a few times

Because..... Gotta take a few sacks to make the game more challenging.

And, oh, it sounded funny in my head.

Drew Hill - โ†ฉ๏ธ

Ernest Givens - โ†ฉ๏ธ

Warren Moon - ๐Ÿˆ

Haywood Jeffries - โ†ฉ๏ธ

Curtis Duncan -โ†ฉ๏ธ

Every. Single. Play.

Can't even tell you who the running back was.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

In a weird way I prefer the almost too easy and gimicky NCAA games over current Madden. Madden feels like the game just randomly decides that the play is or isn't going to work no matter how well it is/isn't set up by formation.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

yep, my 97 OVR OL will miss so many blocks and I have had probably 50 rushing tds called back for blcok in the back anout 80 yards behind the play

Danny is always open

Just saw that we are expected to hire Tyler Bowen have no idea how to embed. Source NCAAF Nation.

Football is a lot like life, and you're going to have disappointments. The issue is how you come back from them.

~ Frank Beamer
.

Thanks pal

Football is a lot like life, and you're going to have disappointments. The issue is how you come back from them.

~ Frank Beamer
.

So Bowen follows a Marc Lester on twitter, looking at his page he played for the ravens as wide receiver and is developing young wide receivers after the NFL. May be something to keep an eye on for WR coach.

He said give to me Roscoe

Is he related to Moe by any chance?

Vroom Vroom

did we hire someone new in the support staff department? twitter profile says assistant director of football operations for Virginia Tech. if so, glad she is on board!

She's been on staff for over a year. From wytheville. Rumor has it Fuente planned to try to keep her (very solid sauce on this).

Do you mean Fuente will try to poach her wherever he winds up?

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

I'm sure she'd love to move to Oklahoma to work for some random high school ๐Ÿ™„

Onward and upward

Yeah.

The quote that came my way went something to the effect of: wherever I go next year, you're going with me. Which also said he knew he was gone before the season even started.

Which also said he knew he was gone before the season even started.

Well that explains a lot of late game gutless playcalling and decision making this year. The man was after that buyout, not another year.

This is my school
This is home

LMAO, give me a fucking break dude.

you're basically accusing him of throwing/tanking games. the late-game issues are more likely just a JF flaw in his coaching skill set. Your theory also goes against what actually happened on the field.

why the hell would he or any of the assistants be out recruiting if it were true? how would we have any recruits? the class is going to end up ~25 if it doesn't fall apart.

take a break from 3rd hand internet conspiracy theories, enjoy the weekend, and look forward to the new era of VT football

The late game issues were also caused by a lack of quality depth and poor conditioning. But I agree the idea that Fuente was mailing it in are silly. He'll almost certainly want to coach again somewhere else and that's the kind of thing that sinks your chances at another job.

The man was after that buyout, not another year.

I said this to some friends as a joke after he put Kadum in backed up against our own goal line in whatever game that was. Felt less like a joke as the season went on sadly.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

What is the issue these days when incompetence happens it's always connected to some premeditated rationale?

Or it's just bad decision-making combined with the awareness that he hasn't been successful enough in the eyes of the university, fans and others.

Coaching has no shortage of stubborn egomaniacs who think they know better.

Why do people make bad decisions (coaches) that fans disagree with - well if you can solve this then you shouldn't be here. Just saying

Ps - if you can't interpret, literally zero chance that Fu was "after" a buyout. The insinuation of such is lunacy. He just failed...deal with it

Right, just because someone fails doesn't mean they weren't trying to win.

What about when they act in ways contrary to their own stated philosophy and general norms of their profession?

Proud author of one plaid comment.

I don't actually think he was trying to get fired. I literally said it was a joke in case you can't interpret.

In general I don't think that malice should be assumed when incompetence is a reasonable explanation.

But I can't think of a good reason to ask your 2nd/3rd string QB with little experience to come into a close game backed up against his goal line and throw the ball on first down. It goes against everything we know about Fuente and his risk mitigating style.

Like I said. I don't think he was trying to get fired. I think he is an honest guy doing his best. I just think he realized he didn't know how to make our offense work with the pieces he had in place and wasn't humble enough to make the necessary changes. I'm interested to see where he goes from here.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

You don't intentionally lose games because:

  1. If it could be proved he were losing on purpose to get a buyout, it MIGHT be a "for cause" type fireable offense, meaning he wouldn't get anything.
  2. Getting a one time buyout isn't NEARLY as good as continuing to coach long-term, money wise.
  3. Assuming he'd like to keep making money, do you think a better record is easier to sell to a new school than a bad one?
  4. If he just wanted the buyout and was losing on purpose, why would he get more involved in the offense and have things start going better? (See #2 and #3 above)

That is my cousin! She's been with the program since graduation, but recently moved into that position.

I love that we've switched from flight tracking to Twitter follow sleuthing ๐Ÿ˜‚

VB born, class of '14

Support staff $$$$$

Longshot, but if we're still short a QB coach/Passing game coordinator, why not take a look at Major Applewhite down at South Alabama. He's been QB coach at Syracuse, Rice, Alabama, Texas, Houston, South Alabama, and spent time at the Saban Coaching Academy.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

You forgot a key point. Has he worked with Pry? If not, then it's out of consideration.

I dont know, but he was better than Chris Simms

So far it looks like Pry is shooting for the coaching staff with the least amount of letters in their names/s

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Oh, damn. I got a chance.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Easier to remember

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Any thoughts on why we're not seeing more offensive coaching hire announcements rolling out? Because Bowen is still busy working with the Jags so not time to look for people? Maybe the other coaches are still coaching for bowl games (but Jones still had a bowl game)? Something else?

I think it's at least partially because Bowen is still working. If I was Pry I would want to make sure he was very comfortable my guys, and I was very comfortable with his before hiring the last few. Or could be down to 2nd or 3rd choice. Also very possible our first pick for QBC knows they are in contention for other attractive positions, and are hesitant to commit if they think they will be an OC or get a big dog offer. Lot of people hiring now.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

I think you're absolutely right. There are a lot of job openings and a lot of job seekers. That's a lot of interviews, offers, and counter-offers. All that takes time. I know we're all anxious to get the staff finalized, but we may not have all the jobs filled until January.

I watch the WFT occasionally and Micah Parsons looked like juggernaut running through the o-line to the ball on every play. If that's the kind of player Pry can recruit and develop then I feel great about the future of the defense.

Hokie Club member since 2017

Dude is a beast. He single handedly wrecks plays

That Parsons guy was OK. /s
He had like 2 sacks and a forced fumble in the first quarter. I turned it off then to switch to the Dayton game/faisco before checking in with ~5 mins to go.

Pretty sure Parsons was like a 0.9999 5 star recruit, so not too much to have to develop there.

Buy yeah if Pry can coach up guys to play to that level then absolutely, just saying using Parsons has a yard stick for Pry's development of players might not be the best since dude was pretty much a can't miss prospect.

not so fast my friend, he was only a measly 0.9982 rated five star recruit

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

What a dud

Devin Hunter was a .9799. There's always development you can do in college

Hokie Club member since 2017

I agree though that MP is the ceiling but it's fun to day dream about re-reaching it at some point

Hokie Club member since 2017

Are we done hiring coaches now? I have heard anything seemingly in hours.

probably cannot announce them

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Thanks Andy and miket14

via GIPHY

Tyler Bowen - lets see who else works at the Jags...

Its Brian Schottenheimer! Oh my God QB Coach is going to be Brian Schottenheimer - its BRIAN SCHOTTENHEIMER! ITS BRIAN SCHOTTENHEIMER!!

THAT'S SCHOTTENHEIMER'S MUSIC

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

John Jacob Schottenheimer's Schmidt. His QB is my QB too.

The good: He's got years of experience as OC and QB coach for an offense that has been going off on teams over the last few years.

The bad: He's an offense coach named Brad. /s

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

I think we're good. His last name doesn't have a food in it.

Milwaukee Journal Sentinal is picking it up as well as other rumblings (I don't know how valid MJS is, but seems legit?) OL Coach from Wisconsin is a target for us right now. Key part is he was demoted from OC and took a pay cut this year after I believe one season as OC.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2021/12/20/wisconsin-fo...

New Virginia Tech head coach Brent Bry, in the process of assembling his coaching staff, has targeted Wisconsin offensive line coach Joe Rudolph.

Neither UW coach Paul Chryst nor Rudoph returned messages left Monday night but a UW source said Pry would like Rudolph to coach the Hokies' offensive line.

Pry reportedly has hired an offensive coordinator โ€“ Jacksonville Jaguars tight ends coach Tyler Bowen.

Rudolph, a UW alum who played guard under Barry Alvarez, is in his seventh season on Chryst's UW staff.

He was the offensive coordinator/tight ends coach under Chryst at Pittsburgh from 2012 through 2014.

Before that, Rudolph served as UW's tight ends coach under Bret Bielema from 2008 through 2011.

Rudolph called plays for UW in 2020 because Chryst felt he wasn't able to do enough off-season preparation with the COVID-19 pandemic disrupting the offseason.

Chryst took back that role this season, however, and Rudolph was allowed to focus on the offensive line.

Rudolph lost his title of offensive coordinator and he accepted a pay cut of about 6%, to $675,000.

Well, if you plan on running the ball and dominating the line of scrimmage, going with some Wisky OL folk isn't a bad place to start.

I guess we still have some big recruiting targets on the board post ESD...

I want him here! I hope he brings all them corn fed mid-western brick shithouses they call offensive lineman with him!

He said give to me Roscoe

1 this would be an absolutely incredible hire. 2 I still love the focus on the trenches. 3 I know a lot of people have doubt about the play calling experience of our coordinators but as far as total coaching experience we're assembling quite the damn staff if Pry can pull this off.

(add if applicable) /s

Jones - Spent most of his time in ACC and Big 12
Quinn - was a head coach, not a ton of P5 experience but coached at citadel, so since I can only name one other hokie coach with previous HC exp, and previous citadel exp, we good
Holt - Has ACC exp, worked in our recruiting backyard and coached top flight special teams and got a couple RBs to the league out of the sun belt.
Price - Spent a lot of time at Marshall under a really good coach, Doc Holliday, was one of the best recruiters in the MAC, and loves VT.
Marve - SEC and ACC exp.

MJS is legit as is the Wisconsin State Journal which is based out of Madison. I think they're owned by the same parent company. WSJ is what I read when I was living there.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Saw where Shawn Quinn is the Sam/Nickel coach for the defense on 247.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

Yeah that side of the ball is rounding out pretty nicely.

Marve - DC (likely LB)
Price - DL
Quinn - Sam/Nickel
Jones - DB

Guessing TBD between a DL or DB coach to round it out.

With Holt coaching RBs, does that crack the door open for a former VT TE coach to return???

Not sure why Shibest would stay on, but I guess there's a chance, yeah.

/s

Yeah CBP announced that on Tech Talk Live last night. Really good listen - Pry has a ton of personality and is legitimately funny. Huge breath of fresh air.

Please forgive me if it has been reported and I missed it, but any word or smoke on a new strength and conditioning person? That is going to be one of the biggest areas that needs improvement.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Rumors are swirling around Dwight Galt IV, current S&C coach at ODU. Previously an assistant at Penn State under his dad (and still S&C coach at PSU) Dwight Galt III.

Thank you. Was hoping we would have seen something already.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Any relation to John?

(/s)

Don't know. All I can do is:

Well played :-).

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Are you Alec Baldwin-ing us ?

What about Willie?

Any poster on this board is an upgrade over Hilgart. I have said this and stand by it since he was hired. Our defenders bouncing off players like ping pong balls and our inability to get a yard on 4th down a billion times validates this. Dude stinks. Belongs coaching in D2 somewhere- maybe.

Chris Coleman had an interesting take on this. He said he thinks Fuente might have eased up on the players after the SI article, Twitter turkey-bacon butt hurt, and locker room issues. He said that may be why the players weren't held to a higher standard in the weight room.

Coleman also killed Gentry for Deon Clarke losing weight each year. He was very vocal about how Gentry couldn't bulk him up. Well there are countless players in that category under Hilgart.

Yeah I don't think anybody's excusing Hilgart. Just interesting information.

He's said even more about Hilgart in that regard.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Do we know coach Pry's stance on providing turkey bacon yet?

Hokie Club member since 2017

Hopefully that's why all the players are leaving /s

Did he say hi to their moms?

Belongs coaching in D2 somewhere

Belongs personal training at Lifetime Fitness somewhere.

FTFY

Why is it that looking at Virginia Tech football games in the 90's-2011/2013 the players looked much bigger and 2014-Present Day the players look so much smaller. The RB's were way bigger and even the Wide Receivers and Defensive Backs looked stronger especially in the arms. Now a lot of the players look lanky and weak. Is this on Hilgart, the players Tech has recruited, a mixture of both? What has happened? The 2009 team vs Tennessee and 2011 vs Michigan had men or "dudes" out there playing.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

you are certainly not alone. The consensus around here seems to be that it's on Hilgart. I'd say that's partially, but not totally, true. I think you've hit on one of the other parts of the issue - recruiting. I also think culture is a big part of it too. Fuente's teams at VT were soft. Scared, and soft. I think that's top down culture. Between recruiting shortcomings, poor training/development, and a mindset that I don't think aligns with toughness we wound up with a team full of guys ill prepared for P5 football.

Onward and upward

we wound up with a team full of guys ill prepared for P5 football.

FTFY

uva - the taint of the ACC

Pads have gotten better too so you don't see those massive shoulder pads that made RBs and LBs look massive.

Khalil Herbert (5'9" 212) didn't look big to me but he's bigger than Ryan Williams (5'10" 206) and David Wilson (5'10" 205)

Khalil Herbert looked like a man out there and even Blackshear looks stronger than a lot of the other RB's. I would think the massive shoulder pads would make a lot of the Hokies players look worse than the smaller pads do. Trey Edmunds, Herbert, and Blackshear are the 3 most recent RB's we have had that were built similar to the RB's in the glory days though Malachi Thomas surely plays like the type of RB's the Hokies have been missing out on lately.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

Blackshear is small. He isn't even listed at 200 lbs and that's college weights which lies a lot, the others I used combine weight.

When I think big VT backs I think Ox 6' 228lbs, or Evans 6' 227lbs or Kevin Jones 5'11" 221 lbs

G5 players in spread offenses are focused on speed, not strength. So we got WRs with chicken legs.

I've seen Tyrod in person. His thighs were double the size of my head, and he was the QB.

Different approach by a G5 staff.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

The part that confounded me was that, despite having a smaller lineup, the coaches were talking about players being too tired (e.g. the end of the Notre Dame game). How are we gonna lead the league in skinny legs and have poor conditioning? Teams aren't running the HUNH as much and we're rotating guys more than ever and yet we're both tired and too weak at the point of attack? To me, that goes to S&C and setting a standard during the off-season.

Gentry started with the legs, built strength in a base and worked from there. We also redshirted more guys and VT was a huge creatine program when it was legal. Having said that- Hilgart is a clown

Creatine isn't illegal though? Or did ncaa ban it or what?

Creative is still perfectly legal in the NCAA according to google.

Creative isn't in the NCAA's playbook.

/s

Ha ha, autocorrect didn't like "creatine". I'm leaving it so your joke still works.

I know, but the joke was there...

VT used to sort-of provide it to the players as part of their training regimen. The NCAA said that teams could not provide it. Players can use it, but they have to buy it themselves. VT used to get the players a discount by buying in bulk and having the players reimburse. Not allowed to do it that way.

That is my recollection, anyway.

Wait, what?

Used to be able to buy at Walmart but not sure... and it was cheap too. You just had to really hydrate or could have kidney issues.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Still can. It's one of the few relatively safe, widely studied, effective, inexpensive supplements.

Wait, what?

Don't think the importance of this can be overstated. I've got a copy of the VT football summer workout program somewhere that says "we will provide creatine to our scholarship football players." It's in the section on nutrition. I'll see if I can dig it up

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

The only reason I could see Joe Rudolph wanting to come here from his alma mater is sour grapes over something up there. That's fine. I will 100% take him, but I'm baffled otherwise.

Yeah that seems like a surprise if we get him but I am all for it.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Could be angling for a raise? Or a new challenge I suppose. I really don't know. Either way, welcome if true!

Reading comments and it sounds like the fans in Wisky soured on him. Might be looking for a fresh start.

Would be good for us, their OL is their strength and he is a good recruiter.

This is my school
This is home

...the fans in Wisky soured on him.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Genuinely not intentional. Hah

This is my school
This is home

Well, he was OC for a season and then got demoted with a 6% pay cut.

He may have gone into that year knowing it wasn't likely a permanent promotion, though. I've had temporary "promotions" before to help out in a place of need until an organization could hire someone after missing on a chosen candidate. It's possible he got a pay bump for a year (more than I got, I assure you) then went back to his previous spot after a year when they did get someone in.

.... this is the most perfectly written thing I've ever seen on this site
-8300A_Hokie'12

That jives with what rottingmind13 posted above.

I also wouldn't read into any paycuts over the last two years.

I wouldn't move from Madison to Blacksburg, especially if I was from the area

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Joe Rudolph would mean no Herb Hand? I think I'd rather have Hand's resume but both are quality hires.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Rudolph all day for me.

Free Hugh

Is that even a Thing?

uva - the taint of the ACC

they're exquisite!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'd take Hand or Rudolph, Pry is definitely putting a focus on the lines. A great OL can make average rb's look great!

1-0 every week

If we hire Rudolph and we don't announce it on Christmas Eve complete with puns about taking the reins, then I've lost all faith in our athletic department's social media team.

Could even throw in something about guiding a sleigh...

I'm here for the memes, I just stay for the football.

Maybe Rudolph wants to be closer to where he grew up. He is from PA and his wife is from WV.

Has he washed all that Shit Pitt stench off of him yet?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Fuck Pat Narduzzi

"Give me a fuยขking beer", Anonymous Genius

I am not allowed to comment on Ryan Smith's replacement.
I am not allowed to comment on Ryan Smith's replacement.
I am not allowed to comment on Ryan Smith's replacement.

Free Hugh

Derek Jones ๐Ÿ˜Œ

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Guess again

Free Hugh

ryan smith cbs coach in 2021, derek jones in 2022 ๐Ÿคท

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I Smitty and Jones were in the staff at the same time, so I meant more as in how that he's gone who's been hired or promoted in his stead, not literally the same position coach

Free Hugh

We know who you mean, and what you're thinking but not saying. FWIW, if you had left it at your first post, I would have considered it a masterful reference to the other thread to make your point and then move on.

(Psst... GGC is trying to deflect / redirect with a joke; he's giving you cover to gracefully exit the topic. Just go with it.)

I just want to clarify I like Jones a lot

Free Hugh

*shakes head* why does everyone want Hokies to fill every coaching position on the staff? Let Pry hire whoever he thinks is the best fit no matter where they played college ball.

"Give me a fuยขking beer", Anonymous Genius

Didn't know he coached at Lenior-Rhyne. It's crazy how much coaching talent has gone through that school.

As an aside, one of my close friends in high school went there. Oddly enough, his parents both went to VT.

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Dwight Galt official for S&C as guessed.

Alright I'll say it- has anyone else been feeling kinda "meh" about CBP's coaching staff hires so far? I'll admit I don't know a lot of the guys that he's hired yet, but I was expecting at least 1-2 big-time / "splash hires" considering he has such a larger money pot to work with than CJF did, and I'm a little dissapointed so far. It seems to me like we're sort of taking a chance that some of these coaches' careers will take off, rather than getting some coaches that are already proven/elite coaches and recruiters.

Anyway; I admittedly don't know a whole lot about these coaches yet, so just wanted to see if anyone else was getting the same vibe/feel!

Seeing this take a lot. First "more money than Fuente" doesn't mean as much as it did 12 months ago. Second name some of these "splash hires" you were expecting. Big time OC's and DC's become HC's or stay at current jobs for pay increases.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

As I mentioned in one of the other threads, most of us don't know 99% of the assistant coaches out there.

Really, the only name that would have been a splash for me was Brent Venables. (And that's not me saying we ever had a shot at him, just that he's literally the only coordinator outside of VT that I know because he's gotten that kind of reputation.) Other than that, it might have been a splash to hire someone like Gattis, but only because he's Michigan's OC who's going to the CFP this year, and not because I'd heard of him before this year's coaching carousel.

Gattis who wasn't a splash hire when PSU hired him, 3 years coaching only 1 at Vandy.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

He didn't even call plays at bama. His first year at UM was his first year as playcaller.

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Pretty sure Splashy Hire is not on Pry's list of what he wants. Based on the hires, I would say his list looks a lot like:
Have you been moving up in the ranks of coaching and getting promoted based on your ability?
Do you have a successful history in recruiting based on where you were recruiting to?
Do I know you personally well enough to be sure you are a fit for the culture I want to instill?
Out of all the coaches that fit the first three, which one do I want most as my _____ coach?
Can I get that person to come work for me at VT?

Which probably a lot like most other coaches list.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

individuals hires? sure but then I read up on them and come away impressed. We don't really have the budget to steal a bunch of very successful assistants with "lateral" moves for all of our openings. Looks like we are going to be able to pull that off with 3, maybe 4 of our hires which I consider a win. (Derek Jones, Stu Holt, Rudolph and hopefully the WR coach) Everyone else aside from JC Price is basically getting a promotion because of their great performance at a lower level school or position.

Ultimately the mix looks pretty good to me. He's hiring highly regarded up & coming position coaches for his coordinators (Bowen // Marve), and then some very experienced P5 coaches to support them (Rudolph for Bowen, himself & Jones for Marve) plus finding a mix of coaches who were very successful at lower levels (Glenn // Quinn) and some who made the move up to P5 recently but have lots of experience (Holt // JC Price) & a highly regarded 1st time assistant (Prioleau).

The WR coach hire will hopefully be another coach with extensive P5 experience and a track record of good recruiting.

I too have scratched my head when names are dropped, then immediately go to google. Usually, after a couple of articles, I get much happier. I think for now I will rely on my strong eternal optimism and give CBP the benefit of the doubt. I was slightly excited by the Pry hire, then I watched the presser. Eternal Optimism refueled.

I'm of the opinion that my opinion doesn't mean anything. Until they have coached a season, I'm not going to say anything bad about them. What is doing so going to accomplish. Right now, we should just be fans of Virginia Tech, and not poo poo the goings on until we know for certain something is wrong.

In my opinion the real problem is that Fuente hired a bunch of guys we didn't know and it didn't work out. Now Pry is hiring a bunch of guys we don't know and it's making us nervous. There's nothing wrong with that, but we need to be cognizant that CBP knows a lot more guys than we do and is a much better judge of college football coaching acumen then pretty much everyone who posts on this message board.

Sorry, just finishing up the second season of The Witcher and there was a line that made me think of this conversation:

"Sometimes we assume the worst because we fear to hope"

Spoilers

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

"Toss a coin to your . . . " Shit now its stuck in my head again

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I am not sure how you could make a splash hire with our budget, 5.5 mil sounds like a lot but it really isn't.

Big time assistants like Venables, Elko, Elliot, Gattis are either looking to become a head coach or at a school that can match any offer. After those few and a couple more I am not sure who would be a splash.

So maybe you decide to throw money at a splash hire, whats that going to be 2.5 mil? Top coordinators are making 2 mil already.
Almost half your budget on one coordinator? Then they're going to have to work with a staff that is from the bargin bin. So then you're getting inexperienced position coaches, which well, not great typically. I mean Marve was making $500k as a position coach. That $5.5 mil budget is just we want to play the game, not we want to win the game.

Glenn was part of one of the greatest upsets in college football, and in the good way, not a VT temple kind of way. He's been around.

I am way more excited about this staff than any other we had. Obviously I'd rather have Bud coaching the defense over anyone else, but this staff has a lot of expirence all over the place. Lots of good to great recruiters. Lots of guys that coached a lot of great players. This staff has a bunch if SEC, ACC, Big 12 and Big Ten experience. I see the Marve hire like us hiring Justin Hamilton in 3-4 years. I look at it as Pry choosing his successor at DC.

I expect next year to be a little rough as many of them haven't worked together before, but lots of talent coaches and recruiters.

Woah, tons of responses- thanks for the replies y'all! Interesting to hear what everyone thinks. Lots of good points brought up. Only time will tell I guess and I hope this ends up being a great era of Hokie football!

There are some hires I was really excited about right off the bat (Pry, Brad Glenn, JCP, hopefully Rudolph)

There are others I didn't know much about, but I got excited about after learning more (Marve, Derek Jones)

There's others that I'm in wait-and-see mode with (Bowen, Quinn)

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Not at all.

Glenn was an OC and his QBs have done great. Rudolph, if we get him, is a badass proven P5 OL coach and former P5 OC. Quinn was a HC...I don't care what level it is...he was a successful head coach. Holt is a P5 proven ST's coach and the first real RB coach we've had since Hite...has had 11 players get to the NFL and several 1000 yard backs (who did we have before...Shane?, Zon?, Lechtenberg?). Jones is P5 proven. Marve is a proven P5 LB coach. Pry, Jones, Bowen, and (hopefully) Rudolph are stud recruiters. And look at the recruiting footprint...nailing it from the DMV to Jacksonville. We've also added a GM and seem to be stealing PSU's DOF. Galt IV at least has excellent bloodlines.

Not sure how this is in any way "meh". Look at the staff Shane hired with SEC money just a year ago and compare.

I feel like some people wouldn't be happy unless we went and hired half the staff of a top 10 team. Like if all 10 of our coaches aren't Broyles award winners from playoff teams with 25 years of P5 experience who have never recruited a player with less than 5 stars then we somehow shit the bed.

You can't overcome unreasonable expectations with reason. We're just going to have to listen to some people whine about our coaching hires until there's actual football to whine about.

Yep, some people aren't happy unless they are complaining about something.

Ah, the in-law rule

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

What is your expectation for us to be ranked consistently? Where would you peg us?

Free Hugh

Is #2 the right answer or the definitely wrong answer here?

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

Bruh

Free Hugh

We should be #1 in the ACC, which would make us a minimum top 12 team.

The expectation change between the 2000s to the 2010s is just insane. Going to the Orange Bowl, and now hoping to make a bowl is a heavy swing.

We need to get back to the NY6. That's our program expectation.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I would even be happy with consistent top 3 in the ACC but holy shit yes the goal posts have moved so much. We should live in the top 15

Free Hugh

In recruiting rankings or actual rankings?

Actual rankings, I agree.

Recruiting Rankings I think top 15 is pipe dream

I think top 20 is a good goal for recruiting

Free Hugh

I also think that is a good goal but I don't expect it to happen that often, I expect top 30 classes every year (unless you taking fewer than 20 kids for some reason), and hope to get top 20 every so often, but that is a big ask for Tech. It has only happened 2/3 times that I can find in Tech football history.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I think we need higher goals. My pet peeve when I ask someone why they do something a certain way, their answer is "because we have always done it that way."

Change the way we have always done it! That is what moves the needle. Not playing woe is me and finding the reasons we can't do it. We find the reasons we can.

When enough fans with enough money have high enough expectations to give like they are supporting a top 25 team, fan's goals will matter. Other than that, what the goal are discussed on here are only relevant in how they move that needle. If Whit (fundraising) and Pry (staff and recruiting planning) are not setting goals based on actual finances, they are not setting goals, they are dreaming. They have both said the long term goal is championships, which would come with top 25 finishes and recruiting classes, but will not happen if they don't have a series of reasonable goals on how to get there from where we are. Whit (and to some extent Pry - who could not do worse than Fuente at this) selling the fan base on these goals is a big key to getting the resources we need to make it happen. But someone here's opinion of the goals is not the problem, it is an outward reflection of the problem.

Hopefully Pry will be part of the catalyst needed to get fans to believe enough to give more - as that is the change that I think will help most now that we have taken a big first step in getting rid of a coach that lowered expectations instead of raising them.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

Throwing money at something isn't the only solution. I will keep beating this dead horse as long as I have to. In 2016, Fuente's first year at Tech, we brought in Jerod Evans and scored 35 points on eventual national champs Clemson in the ACCCG. Ohio State, who I assume a lot of people on here consider a blue blood and have way more cash going into their program, played Clemson in the next game, the first game of the playoffs, and was totally shut out. Money is NOT the only solution, like was said above, we just have to figure out how we can play with the bigger cash programs. We start winning more and people will most likely start ponying up more cash for the football program. I'd say follow Clemson's model since they weren't swimming in cash when Dabo started winning and being the most frequent attendant in the playoffs with Alabama over the last 7 years.

I dont think lucky portal (or juco) grabs and an offense with very little tape is sustainable.

But basically you're saying we have to moneyball this. We have to find the inequities in the system. The problem is that once we find that then Bama will do it too putting us back where we are. There is a reason the top programs from 20, 30, 40, etc years ago are still top programs.

And if you think we should be trying to find that inequity then we just made all the wrong hires. We just hired football guys. We need to hire completely different people if we are going to exploit the system. We need to be okay with losing big to get there too. I dont think many people are ready for that.

Clemson had a full season of tape on us - it's not like we played them first game of the season. I'm not saying we have to moneyball anything. I'm just saying we don't have to spend through the nose to get results. People seem to think we need to be in the top 10-15 of money outlays to be competitive. FSU has most likely been near the top for the past few years and look how they've done. Same with Miami. Spending cash is not equivalent to on-field performance. We had a pretty darn good recruiting class this year with bad recruiters. Pry has hired good recruiters, so I would expect recruiting to improve. If we can get good recruits and coach/develop them well, that has very little to do with how much we spend on stuff. Again, see Miami and FSU for how to spend money, get good recruits, but still be mediocre. Cincy is in the playoffs - are they in the top 10-15 of spending? And before you say their path was easy, that's what everyone is saying about how difficult our path is in the ACC. So why do we have to spend more than all the teams in the SEC if they may only send 1 team to the playoffs. We only have to beat all the teams we play in the ACC, which, about now, isn't that difficult. Same for the Big 10 and Big 12 - we don't have to spend more than all their top teams, we just have to win the ACC (and lose 1 game or less - about now, that looks more achievable than it has in a long time).

You say "people seem to think we need to be in the top 10-15 of money outlays to be competitive" but then only list teams that are in the top 15 money-wise but not on the field. It's kind of a square-vs-rectangle thing: every program with long-term success has elite level resources, but not every program with elite level resources has long-term success. And no, Cincy's recent run doesn't yet count as "long-term success", let's see how both this year's playoff and the next few seasons pan out first (and whether they retain Fickell through it all).

You appear to have missed my other point that we don't need to outspend all those other programs. The SEC teams aren't regularly taking all the top talent in NC, VA, WV, MD, and PA. In NC and VA, it's been UNC, Clemson, Penn State (at least in VA), with the occasional recruit that goes to Alabama. I'm pretty sure it's similar in MD and PA, with Ohio State and Penn State being the big dogs we're competing against for recruits. Then as I pointed out, we only really need to beat the ACC teams to get to the playoffs. So why do we think we need to spend more than all of the SEC, Big10, and Big12 teams to be competitive when we aren't competing against them on the field (other than occasional matchups) or for recruits? I mean, let the SEC spend themselves to death only to realize it's not going to change that it's Alabama, Georgia, and everyone else (at least until Saban retires).

My point remains - if we can win the ACC, including the championship game and lose one game or less to do so, odds are we go to the playoffs. Who do we need to spend more than to make that happen? Does the amount Oklahoma pays their coaches and how nice their facilities are impact anything about what recruits we get and whether we can win out in the ACC? Same for (insert any SEC team here). And my point about FSU and Miami is those teams are in the ACC, so have a bearing on us being able to win out. And if we say we need to spend more than them, I'd ask why (since they've been doing less with more for long enough - granted they do have to compete with the SEC for recruits).

Sure, yeah, if we get a whole staff full of VT lifers that don't really want to go anywhere else for anything short of a clear promotion (aka, Beamer and Bud, plus a competent OC), we'll be fine, but the chances of that are vanishingly slim. Barring that, to retain any sense of continuity with our coaching staff, while being a routine top-ten program, we need to spend money like a top-ten program. Otherwise, we'll find ourselves having to make routine home-run hires that can maintain the recruiting connections built by the prior staff, which is probably even less likely than assembling a single staff that'll stay around for a while on the cheap.

You are correct, success in college football can be obtained through a combination of strategy and luck. But any program that has sustained success over any decent length of time has spent a lot of money to make it happen.

Nobody is immune to coaches going elsewhere. Position coaches and coordinators will go somewhere else for a promotion. Unless we could afford to pay our coordinators HC salaries and our position coaches coordinator salaries, until they want promotions so we pay everyone on staff like a HC, it doesn't matter how much we pay. Yes, some coaches may leave to go get another position coach job somewhere else, but how often does that happen vs them leaving for promotions? So, again, us being in some top percentage of spending isn't going to change anything related to staff turnover if we're successful unless something happens like a coordinator leaves and we can promote from within from the position coaches.

Plus, the other thing about competing with SEC dollars is they turn over their coaching staffs so frequently, if you leave to take that money, you may find yourself out of a job within 2 years. Plus, how many people who are taking promotions are going to those top programs anyway? By definition, there's only 15 of them, so they're more likely to get poached by other teams not in the top 15 for promotions than lateral transfers for more money (based on competition for limited spaces).

And the problem would get worse if we were very successful, but paying more doesn't insulate you from that - look at Clemson this year and their coordinators who left for HC gigs. Elliott went to UVA where we know they're not spending tons of cash. And even if we were going to pay a lot more, Oklahoma paying Riley $7.67M per year got big-dogged by USC. And while Kelly apparently wasn't making all that much at Notre Dame, he is the first HC to ever leave there to coach somewhere else. And how sure are USC and LSU that their investments are going to produce the results they expect?

I think if we wind up getting to the playoffs and more money starts flowing into the program, even if it's not top dollar, we'd likely still be a favorable destination for coaches, between the easier path to the playoffs and how our expectations aren't as insane as they are in the SEC, which means that there's more job security here.

holy shit yes the goal posts have moved so much

I mean, the college football landscape has changed, so it would make sense that the goal posts have moved as well. In 2000 when Beamer threatened to leave for UNC, Weaver made his staff the third highest paid in college football. Now, I would guess we're somewhere between the 20th and 40th highest paid staff in the country? It will be interesting to see where we sit when all of this dust settles.

You say we should 'live in the top 15,' but shouldn't Alabama, Auburn, UF, FSU, Clemson, UGA, OSU, Mich, Penn St, Mich St, USC, Oregon, Texas, OU, Nebraska, TAMU, LSU, ND also live in the top 15 (based on their commitment to football)? That's 18 teams that 'should' live in top 15.

I'm not saying we can't return to being a top 15 team, and I'm not pushing the 'poor little VT' narrative, just pointing out that there's probably 25-30 other schools who are also trying to 'live in the top 15', depsite there only being 15 spots. It's not like those other schools are sitting idle while VT gets to innovate.

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I'd argue Nebraska, Michigan State, Texas, USC, Auburn and FSU are in the same boat as us.

Nebraska will never recruit well again. Michigan State will always be #2 in their state and they're fighting with Penn State for third place in their division. Auburn paid a freak athlete quarterback to will them to a national championship. FSU, USC and Texas have the best chance of those teams to break out but their boosters can't get out of their own way. USC just made some big boy moves but we'll have to see if they can overcome California being raided by SEC and Big12 teams.

I would say Alabama, UF, UGA, OSU, Penn State, USC, OU, A&M, LSU, and ND are cemented above us for now and we compete directly against FSU , Miami and Clemson so we control our destiny against them.

Free Hugh

Nebraska, Michigan State, Texas, USC, Auburn and FSU

Half of those schools (MSU, Texas, and USC) are paying their head coach more than our entire staff. Auburn and FSU have both played for a Natty in this decade. MSU has made a playoff. Tough to say they're in the same boat as us.

Michigan State will always be #2 in their state

MSU is 10-5 against Mich in the last 15 seasons.

I would say Alabama, UF, UGA, OSU, Penn State, USC, OU, A&M, LSU, and ND are cemented above us for now

So we're vying against 15 some odd teams for 4 spots?

It seems like you think that VT is a turnkey job that any half-decent coach should be able to win big at. That might've been true in 2010. I just don't think that's true in 2021.

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How many games do you reasonably think a coaching staff should get to coach before fans start questioning the decision to hire them? Is it more than zero?

Not if its Tennessee......

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

0?

We question the credentials and abilities of presidential nominees (not going into specifics, don't want to speak specific politics, it's just the easiest example) or any other kind of position of authority.

If we replaced Sands I would like it to be someone from another prestigious university and hopefully see some proof of their accomplishments.

When we're hiring new people for our team I would like to see their track record. I would hope they have a good GPA in a relevant degree from a prestigious University and they have meaningful experience at other top companies. I wouldn't want to work with a schmuck. And I wouldn't just blindly trust that whoever is hiring is picking someone good. And I would give my feedback to my boss or the hiring manager.

Blind trust of anyone is for suckers.

Free Hugh

But don't they have the credentials? otherwise we wouldn't have hired them. Just because you hire some one with great credentials doesn't mean they can turn a ship in a day. They need to have time to understand the landscape before they can make meaningful change, otherwise they are just making change for the sake of change.

Yes and those credentials are literally what people are judging.

Just because we hired them doesn't mean they have good credentials.

What is so wrong about questioning a decision that it puts everyone in a tizzy

Free Hugh

Unless you are a true blue blood program where you can afford to hire the biggest name in the business and the brand sells itself, you generally hire someone with some connection to the program or ties that make sense. We just went through six years of Fu who completely alienated a ton of the fan base and eroded connections that had been built up under Beamer. Am I glad we got someone who is Beamer/Bud stamped? Absofreakinglutely. I think Pry has done this at a high level for long enough at PSU that he knows how to run a program, something Fuente never came close to figuring out. Could some of the hires have been a bit more splashy? Sure, but I hope that if any of these hires aren't working out we see him correct things when he needs to. I love the support staff and infrastructure VT football needs that Pry is bringing.

I love the support staff and infrastructure VT football needs that Pry is bringing.

I love those things as well.

Free Hugh

Credentials aren't everything. Les Miles won a National Championship and appeared in another. That sounds like good credentials but look what he did at Kansas...

You're right, they are not everything

Free Hugh

You literally just argued pretty heavily that it's at the least VERY important, and seemed to insinuate that if they don't have good credentials, people are placing blind faith in them.

The problem is you seem to want someone who has demonstrated the ability to win 10+ games/season at a P5 school. Any coaches like that are going to the teams that can pay the most. Beyond that, there will be questions about anybody we could have potentially hired. Would you have hired someone who wasn't winning a lot at a P5 school? Should we have hired someone who won a lot at a G5 school (we already tried that with Fuente and that turned out less than spectacularly)? So then you take a coordinator that has been successful in the P5. We get a guy who really seems to understand our culture, probably because he already coached here and really seemed to "get" Tech, and understand all the people skills Fuente didn't seem to have (at least when addressing large groups and the media).

All the same criteria apply to coordinators and position coaches. The ones that were most successful are either going to get hired as HCs or as coordinators at the blue bloods for a lot more money. So you have to trade "credentials" for other factors.

I think most people are happy with most of the hires we've made, and for the ones we aren't sure of, we're using inference - that because his other hires are good, we're assuming the others will also be good. That's not exactly the same as blind acceptance. That would be if we weren't sure about any of his hires but he told us to trust them and we did.

So I think you've said you're happy with some of the hires. How many have you been happy with? Include support staff like hiring a GM. If you are predominately happy with the hires, but have reservations about one or two, sounds more like you've taken all the positive, but still think they most likely won't turn out, and that's more you just being pessimistic, and not only that, saying the same pessimistic things over and over.

I do think credentials are important because I think it is a good proxy for the odds that someone will succeed. There is nuance in recognizing that credentials are not the end-all be-all, just a best guess on how someone will perform as people can grow or regress and the situations are different. If you can't see that then idk what to tell you.

I am pretty happy with all of the hires except for the coordinators.

I obviously wanted us to land Napier but I understand that we can't compete with Florida. I would have liked Huff but Pry has grown on me a lot. His personality and his vision is perfect.

I do not like that our coordinators are both first timers. Does it really not bother you that the top three whistles are all learning on the job? That is huge risk. I am afraid that Pry will be too busy in the weeds with his DC, meanwhile the OC will also be figuring things out and not have the experience or support necessary.

Also would have rather kept Ryan Smith vs Prielou.

Aside from that the other assistants and support staff I am all very happy with.

Free Hugh

Marve doesn't bother me as much because Pry has said he will coach the defense until the coordinator was ready. Then with Bowen, we have a more experienced QB coach who will be passing game coordinator. Having that experience that can recommend things to the OC alleviates at least a little of my concern there. I'd still like to see how the rest of the offense shapes up and what kind of support Bowen will have before I make too much of a judgment. Plus, Pry has said that as a DC, he knows what kinds of offenses are the hardest to defend, so expect him to be guiding the O to some extent as well. So between having the Passing Coordinator and Pry giving guidance on what he thinks are good offensive characteristics, I think it will give Bowen and opportunity to grow in that position as well. It seems like a decent plan to me, so I'm not that worried. Had Pry said he was not going to be handling defense and it would be the coordinator and hadn't said what he did about understanding what offenses are hard to defend, yes, I would have been much more concerned.

Let's see how it goes. They have a monumental task and a shit ton of work to do.

Immediate need is a real quarterback

Free Hugh

What is so wrong about questioning a decision that it puts everyone in a tizzy

It's because you won't stop bringing it up. You can assert that our DC is shit because the only way to refute that assertion is with on-field performance. Until these coaches actually start coaching, there's no evidence that they are or are not the right choice for VT. So constantly bringing up how bad they are is annoying. You aren't the brave voice in the wilderness speaking truth to power. You aren't the only voice of realism in a sea of mindless yes-men. You are just going on endlessly about how a guy who hasn't coached a snap at VT was not a good hire. Maybe he is maybe he isn't, there's literally no way to know that until he actually gets to coach, so how does the conversation benefit from you constantly bringing it up? I don't claim to speak for everyone, but in my opinion it's getting old.

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Shockingly accurate

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I only started commenting because people (you specifically) felt the need to get up on your high horse and say some people (I'm assuming you are implying me) are only happy with a top 10 staff. So yea I respond to you with my actual opinion.

If you want me to stop crying about our staff, stop crying about me.

Free Hugh

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This is a lie. You have been saying the same thing on every thread since Marve was announced as DC. You don't like the hire, I get it, your opinion has been heard and recognized. No need to keep shoehorning it into every single conversation on every thread. You think you're brave because every thread turns against you, but maybe we are all just tired of feeling bad about Hokie football and we want to feel good about it for a change. It's not your job to prevent that. Being overly cautious and negative about every little thing doesn't make you a realist or a super fan. It's just tiresome.

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let's just have everyone stop crying about everything, unconditionally. The horse is beaten dead.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

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Presidential nominees? These MFs aren't running the country, they're teaching college kids to play football. You need to re-examine your priorities if you put VT position coach on par with president of the United States.

I care more about VT football than I do about the POTUS

Free Hugh

But what about Wu-Tang?

Wu-Tang is for the kids, after all.

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Here's the thing..while VT has definitely increased their investment in Football, so has everyone else--and many of them to larger extents than VT.

Major college Athletics have been transformed by the unrestricted Transfer Portal and NIL. We are a very short time away from a straight pay-to-play situation--where guys drop into the TP year after year and go to the team that can offer them the richest NIL deal. Quinn Ewers and the Hunter kid that went to Jackson State have pretty much set the stage for that. If you expect the NCAA to actually uphold any standards here, then you haven't been paying attention for the last 20+ years.

So while I'm hopeful that Pry and Co. can make VT relevant again in CFB again, I have come to the conclusion that programs like VT simply aren't equipped to compete in this scenario...and, honestly, I'm not sure I want to see my alma mater compromise their integrity to win football games at all costs.

Rant over.

While you make a valid point, VT did just increase their investment, just hired a head coach who is likeable, with great experience and a connection to VT, and a bunch of other coaches with great experience.

So I'm excited about their prospects.

I'm perfectly happy with the Pry hire and, again, am hopeful that he will get VT back into contention for ACC titles and, if nothing else, at least make VT Football enjoyable again.

But let's be honest, we hired a coach for $4mil when the going rate for the "top" programs just exploded to pretty much double that. Assistant salaries are bound to follow, and the big programs are simply going to poach top assistants from other programs by offering bigger paychecks.

Those same Programs are offering $1mil-plus NIL deals to 17 year-olds who haven't played a snap of CFB...wait...I mean businesses in no way associated with those Programs are offering those deals through nothing other than their sheer generosity....yeah...right....

Even if VT wanted to, there are a scarcity of businesses in SWVA with the financial freedom to throw that kind of money around at a kid who may never play a meaningful snap for the team.

That's what the market is and VT (and most other similar programs) just don't have the respurces to be competitive in it. So while I'm hopeful that VT Football will turn a huge corner, if 4-5 years from now when the Transfer Portal becomes a yearly bidding war and $10mil is a "bargain" coaching salary, if the leaders at VT say..."thanks, but we're out," I won't be all that disappointed.

we hired a coach for $4mil when the going rate for the "top" programs just exploded to pretty much double that

and this happened more or less immediately after we made our hire, which is infuriating to think about. We were on the upper end...for like 3 days

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Fuente made $4+ mil and was the 41st highest paid coach and that doesn't include a number of programs like PSU that didn't release their information.

In 2020, 60+ assistants made more than $800k. We weren't on the upper end for a bit, we reached middle of the pack. Hamilton, our highest paid assistant wasnt in the top 100 in pay.

The hire I'm referring to is Pry

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Yes and we are paying him less for 2022 than we paid for Fuente in 2021. We increased our investment but we increased it from one of the worst in the P5 to middle of the road for Pry. The $5.5 mil for staff plus $4 for Pry isn't a lot compared to most SEC or Big Ten programs. It's great we got out of the basement but it was not bringing us to the upper tier. Heck UVA paid assistants over $4 mil this year. FSU was paying a position coach more than our OC. The 5.5 mil is what UF was paying coaches 6 years ago. We have a long way to go to get to the upper tier.

ugh. The numbers I was hearing were so high I just assumed we were more competitive than middle of the pack. This is ridiculous

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

I wouldn't be so down on this. For all intents and purposes it looks like VT was behind the 8-ball in a lot of areas that are being systematically addressed. Facilities have been upgraded, coaching salaries are being significantly increased this year (regardless of where that puts us on the map), and (to me one of the biggest reasons to be excited) a genuine support staff is being created. Hiring Villagrana addresses how the CFB landscape is changing in roster management. Sure, we are not paying Pry top-40 money (presumably) but he's also a coordinator with no HC experience. If this hire can generate hype (so far it has), and put a good product on the field, the money will come. Tech has never been a flashy program and to get to a point where we are paying a coach top-15 to top-20 money isn't going to happen overnight. The right steps are being made and the program seems to be moving in the right direction, but it will require patience.

I 100% agree with this. I am excited. The hires are exciting. The money pool for support staff is exciting. The fact that one man can leave and tank 2 recruiting classes is ridiculous, but we had one guy doing the job when it should have been a team.

I'm not down on it, just disappointed we don't have a big dog budget like I thought we did. I don't know how I got it in my head that we did...saw what I wanted to see, I guess. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited too. It seems like we've brought in a crowded room of OKGs and I can't wait to see what they can do.

The "this is ridiculous" referred more to the gobs of stupid money being thrown around in CFB as a whole.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

MSU had to commit more than $10 mil to get Mel Tucker to take the job a couple years ago, they are now spending more.

David Shaw makes $8.5 mil not including his staff.

60+ coordinators made $800k+ this season.

The increase just showed that Whit and VT are committed to not ket football feaster, but it wasnt a commitment to winning a title money. Which would be silly right now and you'd over pay.

This is the big thing I'm worried about with some hires, VT is a big jump in money for them, I hope we don't under pay the positions. I want a million dollar OC and DC, because that is the expectation, to coach and recruit like top 25 coordinators. It's much easier to say you didn't meet them when you pay them appropriately, because the last staff 100% coached to how we paid them. Their record matches their pay really closely.

The other thing about this is this craziness may not be sustainable. At some point in the SEC never-ending cycle of firing coaches every few years because they're not winning natty's, they'll realize they're paying hundreds of millions for coaches to not coach there. I can't wait for the first report of a guy who used to have 100s of millions having gone bankrupt trying to fund his team to success, and now can't pay the money he pledged, that the university was counting on to pay the massive pool of money they have tied up in buyouts for the past 3 coaches they fired, and now they can't get rid of the guy who is only winning 5-6 games per season.

I can't wait for the first report of a guy who used to have 100s of millions having gone bankrupt trying to fund his team to success,

I think you'll be waiting a long time. Unless some idiot lottery winner is funding his team you're not likely to hear about a bank roller going bankrupt. People with that kind of wealth know what they're doing and they're not simply going to throw money away until they go bankrupt.

Onward and upward

That may very well be true, but doesn't change the fact that at some point, they may not want to keep throwing money at a "problem" because they'll want/need to conserve their own. Trying to stay head in an arms race means throwing ever larger sums of cash at it, which eats it up faster and faster, and since those sources of funds aren't endless, have to imagine at some point the wells will dry up.

Sure, but the arms race has resulted in some conferences/schools getting lucrative media deals, in addition to the crazy alumni donations.

Particularly these days, with a lot of money floating around in the economy, looking for a place to land.

If it were going to be a "fair" competition, the NCAA would set some limits. But, alas, the haves LIKE being haves, and apparently the viewing public are OK with that. It's not like we boycott the playoffs, just because the same teams (mostly) end up their every year with their inherent advantages.

People with that kind of wealth know what they're doing and they're not simply going to throw money away

This is very often not the case.

Do you have examples?

Onward and upward

Bernie madoff, lehman brothers... MC Hammer (jk/ kinda'), nevin Shapiro...there are countless examples if you care to look. Hell the bankruptcy courts are also full of them. And that's saying something because once you have actual generational wealth it's much easier to grow it than it is to lose it.

Also plenty of born on 3rd and think they've hit a triple "my daddy owns a dealership" dumbasses that are CFB boosters.

So the idea that because someone is wealthy it means they are smart and playing 3D chess is absurd. Sure, sometimes they're smart, but just as often they aren't that smart. And even the smart ones can be deeply flawed individuals that make terrible financial decisions.

Also generational wealth typically only last until the 3rd generation.

(i looked it up and its worse for the 2nd generation than I thought). 70% of generational wealth is lots by the kids. 90% is lost by the grand kids.

SIDE NOTE: talk to your kids about finances, credit, stocks, compound interest, balancing a checkbook at the minimum, id you dont understand then learn, its important and if you don't understand then learn, a good assistant living home is $10k a month in major metropolitan areas and they will only rise in price.

VT isn't limited to SWVA any more than Alabama is limited to Tuscaloosa.

True.

VT has a large presence in Northern Virginia and the Washington Beltway, and some reach all over the world.

some reach all over the world.

I ran into a Hokie fan at a tiny little airport in Thailand.

I've been to Europe very sparingly, but:

My time in Prague = met and talked to a Hokie Family while drinking beer in the square during a rainstorm.

A small village in Cinque Terre, Italy = met a Hokie couple having brunch next to the Mediterranean that yelled out "Let's Go"

While in Switzerland = bumped into a Hokie businessman who noticed my drawstring pack on an elevator ride up to a rooftop bar in Zurich.

Hokie Homies are everywhere.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Assuming by splash hire, you mean someone relatively well known as a coordinator or position coach? As in, we should all, being relatively knowledgeable fans know about them?

Without Google, how many splash hires, that would realistically potentiality come to VT can we name off?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Ohhhh a challenge...
Gattis (based off 1 year, cause very few knew him last season)
Elko
Venables
Elliot
Grimes
Lanning
Freeman
Deruyter (I think he is at Oregon now?)
Graham Harrell
Bill O'Brien
Barry Odom

Position coaches is a lot tougher, I would take Aaron Moorehead back in a second. Joe Rudolph is 100% a splash hire.

Rumors starting to float that we're taking Penn State's Director of Football Ops, Michael Hazel.

As summed up by a poster on 24/7

Michael Hazel is in his seventh year with the Nittany Lions and his second as the Senior Director of Football Operations.
He spent the previous five years as the program's Director of Football Operations.
His primary responsibilities include overseeing football's external operations, facilities and handling of Coach Franklin's public appearances.
Additionally, he serves as the program's liaison to marketing, strategic communications and high school coaches.
Hazel was a finalist for the Football Scoop Director of Operations of the Year in 2015 and 2016.
Hazel also was a member of James Franklin's staff at Vanderbilt University, serving as director of football operations for three years. Hazel was a member of the Vanderbilt football staff from 2004-14, serving four seasons as director of football operations, six as assistant director of football operations and one as a defensive graduate assistant.

Can he take Pete's job?

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

The #firepete movement will not be silenced

(Seriously, get rid of him)

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

He seems fine. The social media team seems to have put out some decent content of late.

It's been a lot better in the last year or so IMO. I've read on the boards that he is overseeing PR as a whole and other staff are in charge of social media now, but I've never been able to confirm this. Anecdotally, something seems to have changed and I thought he did a good job with the introductory Pry Presser. I think we can leave the poor guy alone until we have reason not to.

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.

#Petesburneraccount

s/ but for real it has been alot better over the past few months

What if I told you that there's a WR coach out there that has:

1) Extensive P5 experience and a track record for developing talent
2) Deep recruiting ties to the 757
3) NFL veteran
4) Would cripple UVA if we hired him

Is that something you might be interested in?

I'd be good with that hire.

Is he affordable? Reasonable chance he would join the Hokie staff?

If yes to both, then obviously very interested.

If at first you donโ€™t succeed, skydiving is probably not for you.

Is it... Marques Hagans??

Seriously doubt that'll happen.

His graduating class was very close. I remember him and a Hokie player or 2 getting a long hug on senior day before the game. He gets retweeted quite often from Tech alums. I would not be shocked at all to see him make the move.

Make the damn move.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

This may all be true.

But I will believe that a Wahoo can understand how to properly sell VT to a recruit when I see it.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

This is a fantastic point.

why thank you, I think so too.

But I'm serious. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to hiring a Hoo. But can they understand what makes VT a great place to play football, and be able to articulate that well enough that it connects with kids? That's a box I would make sure is checked before saying yes.

I mean, same as any other hire, really. But a LOLUVA grad would be starting from a deficit

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I think we should have a former wahoo on the staff if we want to get back to owning the state. Most on here don't think much of UVA but there is no reason to believe that they we won't be going head to head in recruiting battles. Give me someone who knows the pain and agony of being a wahoo first hand who can put it into perspective for a recruit through honest conversations. If they can coach and recruit, I'll embrace them and welcome them to the hokie nation with open arms.

Ring Design Chair

Yeah, we saw how hard it was for someone who didn't seem to "get" Tech to sell it to recruits for the past 6 years, let alone someone coming in who thinks Tech is inherently worse than UVA. I mean, maybe if the guy wanted to play ball at Tech, wasn't as good as we were looking for, but had the academics to go to UVA, so played there, then MAYBE I'd consider it, but almost every Wahoo I've ever come across had more than a passing disdain of Tech.

It seems to me they'd probably prefer to sell a new line of shit scented dinner plates than be able to sell Tech football.

a new line of shit scented dinner plates

I would wager that exact phrasing cannot be found elsewhere on a Google search ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

To be the man you gotta beat the man!

I try to be funny. Doesn't appear it's often appreciated on here though.

I gotcha homey!

uva - the taint of the ACC

Thanks! Not sure if in the past it's been that people are just serious about Tech football (well on here absolutely, the important part is the next bit), when coupled with Fuente's performance, they weren't in the mood for humor, or if the quality control on the Doug brand of humor has been lacking.

Staying on with Elliot, along with with Sintim, and Tujague

1-0 every week

Wait, how do we have the same shit VT version of LeSabre?

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

25 year old VT site that literally owns The Sabre, Tech Sideline.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

You just made a connection for me. I've heard of Tech Sideline a million times, but always had TKP as my go to for Hokie news. Welp, as they say, ya learn something new every day.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

Exciting. A little info on him:

Villagrana came to Huntington from Mississippi State, where he served as Director of Recruiting in 2018.

He was also Penn State's Recruiting Coordinator in 2015, a year after serving as Savannah State's wide receivers coach in 2014.

From 2010 to 2012, he was Hampton's Special Teams Coordinator, before moving to Offensive Coordinator/Recruiting Coordinator the following season.

He began his collegiate career as a Graduate Assistant at West Virginia in 2008 and 2009, where he secured a Masters of Science in Athletic Coaching Education.

He also earned his undergraduate degree from WVU, where he was a defensive tackle for two seasons, before moving to tight end from 2005-08.

new hire

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ‘€

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Make this happen. Shayne is an awesome Hokie and even did a TKP AMA. Bring him home, Brent!

We already have a ST coach though right? Aren't we only looking for WR coach now (assuming the two rumored/unannounced hires happen)

I'm a little concerned that since our OC hasn't been an OC before, we have a running game coordinator and a passing game coordinator, that the offense will be discombobulated and not have a clear identity. Anyone else concerned about this? Even something such as terminology, is it easy for a new OC to define and all coaches adopt quickly?

Not really a concern. Guessing RGC/PGC titles are more about money than actions, because of the additional titles. At the end of the day, Bowen will be calling the plays and relying on his guys to relay information to help make the best decisions with regards to playcalling. RGC/PGC titles seems to be something that is popping up more frequently now.

It worked pretty well for LSU in 2019.

It's not uncommon these days to have an OC/RGC/PGC

Twitter me

Terminology has to be set top down, thats on the OC. Same with blocking/formations as running two separate offenses doesn't really work other than in NCAA 2014. I would assume that the PGC and RGC have more responsibility in the prep for the week than anything. Gameday shouldn't really be different than it is at pretty much every school, the OC call the plays, the P/RGC assume have the same input as the QB coach or other in booth coaches have (i.e. if they see something to exploit they let the OC know)

From wikipedia

In 2015, Bowen joined Fordham as their offensive line coach under head coach Joe Moorhead and was promoted to offensive coordinator under head coach Andrew Breiner in 2016.[4]

(Penn State) In 2019, Bowen was named the interim offensive coordinator following the departure of Ricky Rahne, who left to become the head coach at Old Dominion University. In 2020, Bowen was promoted to co-offensive coordinator while retaining his roles as the offensive recruiting coordinator and tight ends coach

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Ah yes, I see where I was technically incorrect. His wikipedia page says he was Fordham's offensive coordinator in 2016 and never held that position again, except for PSU's 2019 bowl game. I guess this means I shouldn't be overly concerned, his system has been vetted and he knows how to convey the finer points of the system to his position coaches.

Ha. Your response made me chuckle and thus I provide a leg. To your original point, I have convinced myself that CBP went after someone who he has personally worked with and recognized as someone who "gets it". Is there reason to be concerned? You can always find a reason to be concerned. Should you be concerned? Why put that stress on yourself or us as a fan base? It will likely be better than the product we have seen (May have to reload a little bit though). Let's just sit back and appreciate that that we have made the move and hold our critiques until we actually start seeing what the product looks like on the field.

Ring Design Chair